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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Lucidity on December 17, 2012, 08:28:25 PM

Title: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 17, 2012, 08:28:25 PM
I thought this might be an interesting topic-- thinking of any thoughts you have on DT songs or albums that you think will spark mass debate and not sit well with the general crowd.

For me, I have never liked the Glass Prison much at all, and it probably doesn't rank in the top 40 for me. I think Octavarium (the song) is leagues above A Change of Seasons. I think Octavarium is a fantastic album (way better than Awake). I also love the Shattered Fortress, The Dark Eternal Night, This is the Life, and Far From Heaven. And probably the major one is that Awake is one of my least favorite DT albums. It has  a couple good songs, but most of it is bland and a drag to sit through. The songs on Awake are by far my least listened to DT songs, sans WDaDU.

Forgive me if a thread like this has already been created, but otherwise I think this should be pretty interesting. Haters gonna hate.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: orcus116 on December 17, 2012, 08:29:41 PM
Metropolis is one of the weaker tracks on I&W.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on December 17, 2012, 08:32:04 PM
I agree that Octavarium is leagues above A Change Of Seasons. :tup

I also think that SFAM, while a good album, is horribly overrated.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on December 17, 2012, 08:34:09 PM
I Walk Beside You is one of the best songs on Octavarium.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on December 17, 2012, 08:41:40 PM
I Walk Beside You is one of the best songs on Octavarium.

YES.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: theseoafs on December 17, 2012, 08:51:30 PM
I Walk Beside You is one of the best songs on Octavarium.

Looking over my top 50, it looks like it's 2nd best.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 17, 2012, 08:52:50 PM
I Walk Beside You is one of the best songs on Octavarium.

YES.
I think I Walk Beside You is my least favorite Octavarium song (I don't get why people don't like Never Enough, even if it is Musey). But I do like The Answer Lies Within a lot, and I think it's their best done poppy song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Elite on December 17, 2012, 08:59:14 PM
- In The Name of God is bad.
- Innocence Faded is without a doubt a top 10 DT song.
- So is The Great Debate.
- DT needs a return to form and stop this stream of bad albums since SDOIT.
- Falling into Infinity is a top 5 DT album.
- The majority of DT's songs get boring when you've heard them a lot.

That enough for you? Yes, I specifically pointed them out as facts, though they're all my opinions.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 17, 2012, 09:00:38 PM
- In The Name of God is bad.
- Innocence Faded is without a doubt a top 10 DT song.
- So is The Great Debate.
- DT needs a return to form and stop this stream of bad albums since SDOIT.
- Falling into Infinity is a top 5 DT album.
- The majority of DT's songs get boring when you've heard them a lot.

 :omg:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PROGdrummer on December 17, 2012, 09:01:52 PM
Constant Motion and Raw Dog are fucking awesome songs.

bring it
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 17, 2012, 09:04:28 PM
Constant Motion and Raw Dog are fucking awesome songs.

bring it

I can't stand Constant Motion, it doesn't even come close to DT par for me. Interestingly enough, I don't like metal all too much, but Raw Dog really gets my motor running. I love the weird scales and chords they use, and the use of harpejji in particular. They should've released it as a single or something.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: senecadawg2 on December 17, 2012, 09:05:26 PM
SDOIT, the song, is long/tiresome and kind of a bore.
Octavarium is an all around disappointment, with even the title team unworthy of a place in my top 10.
The count of Tuscany is goofy, but its also a hell of a lot better than bother of the aforementioned epics.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 17, 2012, 09:06:28 PM
Constant Motion and Raw Dog are fucking awesome songs.

bring it

Constant Motion is great. :tup I'm not really a fan of Raw Dog, but it's definitely nowhere near as bad as the reputation it seems to have here. It's a bit repetitive, but not bad.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Heretic on December 17, 2012, 09:13:32 PM
- So is The Great Debate. (Top 10)
- The majority of DT's songs get boring when you've heard them a lot.

These. I haven't listened to a full DT album in about 8 months.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 17, 2012, 09:15:05 PM
- So is The Great Debate. (Top 10)
- The majority of DT's songs get boring when you've heard them a lot.

These. I haven't listened to a full DT album in about 8 months.

Heretic!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ħ on December 17, 2012, 09:25:23 PM
Constant Motion and Raw Dog are fucking awesome songs.

bring it
Yep, both.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ytsejammin on December 17, 2012, 09:27:48 PM
Scenes is a great album , but the storyline is a little corny. I also have trouble sometimes relating to the spiritual afterlife theme of the album.   

M:2000 DVD is an absolute classic concert , but the concept footage leaves a bit to be desired. They should have used more stills instead of the footage.

On the ToT tour in San Francisco , "Finally Free" was arguably a set - eater. The place would have gone crazy if they'd have done "Home" or something else in that space. Still , I liked their rotating setlist policy from the time.

There are other performances edited in on certain songs for the purpose of repair work on various Ytsejam Bootleg releases. I challenge anybody to watch WHen Dream and Day Reunite and not notice repair work sticking out like a sore thumb. On Bucharest 2002 their is a funny edit on LITS. It's not on the original bootleg.

Alot of the vocals on SCORE are from a studio in Canada.

In spite of everything , I still love this artist.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 17, 2012, 09:28:50 PM
Alot of the vocals on SCORE are from a studio in Canada.

 ???
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ħ on December 17, 2012, 09:29:46 PM
Alot of the vocals on SCORE are from a studio in Canada.
Um...no? And lol that's not even an opinion, that's just a false fact.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 17, 2012, 09:34:34 PM
I hope this thread won't turn into Score's vocals were dubbed or not debate. It's really getting annoying. James himself confirmed that, expect some small touches vocals were not dubbed on Score. Any further debate about this matter is just baseless and false.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Glass Moonlight on December 17, 2012, 09:45:34 PM
Awake is their best album
When Dream and Day Unite is awesome
Falling Into Infinity is a top 4 album
Images and Words is somewhat overrated
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Unlegit on December 17, 2012, 09:47:20 PM
This Dying Soul is amazing.

I dunno, that's all I can think of, and that's not even that "controversial".
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: manticore999 on December 17, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
ACOS is awful and I just can't listen to it.  8vm is even worse.  Not a good song on it.  And don't get me started on TOT and SC.  Let's just forget they even exist.  Not hard, co sidering howbad they are. 

Oh yeah, and I'm not being facetious.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dacling on December 17, 2012, 10:36:02 PM
The Great Debate is top 20 for me.

FII is by far the worst sounding album despite it's good songs it's even worse than SC excluding Anna Lee and Hell's Kitchen.

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is a full song. Don't care what anyone says.

Lie on Once In a LIVEtime is awful and it is by far the worst version of the song I have ever heard.

The Dark Eternal Night off Chaos in Motion is good.

My friend likes A Rite of Passage and I am not ok with that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on December 17, 2012, 10:47:52 PM
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is a full song. Don't care what anyone says.

That's not even an opinion, it's a fact. It's presented as one on Score, and MP said explicitly that it is a song. The correct term isn't song, though when people say "song", they often mean "piece" which is correct. It would fall closer to a symphony or suite if I'm not mistaken.

Ontopic, The Great Debate is top 20. ADTOE is in my top 3. You Not Me is actually kind of enjoyable, despite it being one of my least favourite DT songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 17, 2012, 11:10:23 PM
Prophets of War is amazing. I blast it when it comes on when I'm driving. Hell I blast all of SC
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 17, 2012, 11:22:18 PM
Here's a bunch of really controversial ones.

JP's best solo is the outro of The Best of Times, which is a top 10 DT song along with The Ministry of Lost Souls.
ADTOE was a step back for the band in terms of both arrangements and memorability of songs. In fact, BMUBMD is the most memorable track on the album (not the best, just the most memorable).
Chris Collins was better than Charlie Dominici.
Burning My Soul '96 was better than the split-song final product.
SC and ToT are in the top half of DT albums, and better than Awake and SDOIT.
Never Enough is the second-best song on Octavarium.
In The Presence of Enemies Part 2 is significantly better than Part 1. The Slaughter of the Damned is the best part of the song.
The LATM version of The Killing Hand is a top 5 song.
Portnoy's backing vocals added more to DT than they detracted.
The Beautiful Agony section is the worst part of A Nightmare To Remember.
The Lost Not Forgotten tickle section is annoying.

I think that's all I've got.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 18, 2012, 12:13:09 AM
You Not Me isn't bad.
FII is Dream Theater's 4th best album.
The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You are the best songs on Octavarium.
When Dream and Day Unite is a good album.
Voices is my second least favorite song on Awake.
Lie is awesome.
Pull Me Under is actually underrated among DT fans.
SDOIT is overrated.
The sound clips in Home get on my nerves.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 18, 2012, 01:54:30 AM
- Innocence Faded is without a doubt a top 10 DT song.
Agreed. It's the best moment of LaBrie and also one of my favorite Petrucci solos.

Here's one I doubt anyone agrees with, but I actually like "Day after day...". Mike was right, that part needed that heaviness, it fires me up.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SystematicThought on December 18, 2012, 02:04:17 AM
In The Presence of Enemies Part 2 is significantly better than Part 1. The Slaughter of the Damned is the best part of the song.
Out of those head-scratchers ( :P) This one I agree with completely
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 18, 2012, 02:39:45 AM
-Octavarium and Six Degrees are the most overrated DT songs, I even have trouble calling the latter a song
-WDADU > Degrees-BC&SL era albums and FII
-ADTOE > Scenes
-The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun is one of the best DT songs ever
-Forsaken is actually good and probably the best song on SC
-Honor Thy Father is a good song
-Burning My Soul isn't half as bad as people say it is, it beats Anna Lee and New Millennium easily
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 18, 2012, 04:36:24 AM
-Octavarium and Six Degrees are the most overrated DT songs

- Innocence Faded is without a doubt a top 10 DT song.

 :tup

-Never Enough is the best song on Octavarium
-Prophets of War is great
-Repentance is not too long
-WDADU is a top 5 album
-As I Am is rubbish
-Falling Into Infinity is a top 5 album as well
-Burning My Soul is very good, and so is You Not Me
-Status Seeker is a top 25 song
-A Dramatic Turn of Events isn't very consistent, though it's still massively better than BC&SL
-The Dance of Eternity becomes boring after three and half minutes
-Lie is excellent

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 18, 2012, 04:55:05 AM
-A Dramatic Turn of Events isn't very consistent, though it's still massively better than BC&SL
I'd be surprised if this were a controversial opinion. The ballads on ADTOE are way too cheesy, the only redeeming value about them -for me- is Jordan's Emerson-like solo on Beneath the Surface. They way they mixed the drums isn't consistent either and I'm also not too fond of James' performance, especially in the choruses, but that's an isolated complaint, as far I as know. Still a masterpiece, though. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mladen on December 18, 2012, 05:06:13 AM
The Ministry of lost souls is my 2nd favorite Dream Theater song.

That might be it.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 18, 2012, 05:08:14 AM
It is received very positively here. I don't really care about This Is the Life or Beneath the Surface. And BMUBMD is the worst DT song ever, period.

The only "Whoa!"-song is OTBOA. Breaking All Illusions has though some brilliant moments, as does Bridges in the Sky, and Outcry has some very emotional parts. I wish the instrumental wouldn't have been The Dance of Eternity 2.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 18, 2012, 05:45:46 AM
ITPOE Part 2 is better than Part 1.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on December 18, 2012, 06:05:57 AM
I&W and Awake aged terribly. I don't listen to much DT anymore but when I do, I never listen to those albums.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grinch on December 18, 2012, 06:06:23 AM
-I dislike Octavarium (the song), I think it's rubbish.
-I really like The Ministry of Lost Souls.
-I don't like On the Backs of Angels.
-Status Seeker is a really good song.
-Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence (the song) is overrated.
-The Count of Tuscany is a good song.
-Another Day is one of their best songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dreamer81 on December 18, 2012, 06:20:48 AM
-Octavarium is one of the worst album (yes,including the title track)
-SC and BC&SL are awful except for:
  -  The Ministry of Lost Souls
-ADTOE is a top 3 album, if not the best of their discography
-FII is far better than WDADU, 8V, SC and BC&SL

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: goo-goo on December 18, 2012, 07:26:26 AM
James LaBrie's "Octavarium" was better than Dream Theater's "Octavarium"
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 18, 2012, 07:51:19 AM
James LaBrie's "Octavarium" was better than Dream Theater's "Octavarium"
I didn't like Elements of Persuasion much but the way you worded it gave me a chuckle :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Western Ninja on December 18, 2012, 07:59:04 AM
- Innocence Faded is without a doubt a top 10 DT song.
Agreed. It's the best moment of LaBrie and also one of my favorite Petrucci solos.

Here's one I doubt anyone agrees with, but I actually like "Day after day...". Mike was right, that part needed that heaviness, it fires me up.

I agree with all of this post. Including what you quoted.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jhonvictor on December 18, 2012, 08:00:16 AM
- FII is a VERY GOOD album.
- WDADU is the worst DT album, though Ytse Jam is musical perfection, and surely gets on my top 50
- DT makes you want to listen another musical styles.
- On the Backs of Angels is the best ADTOE song.
- 6DOIT and I&W are at the same level.
- Systematic Chaos is very good if you take out Prophets of War and Ministry of Lost Souls.
- The Best of Times is BORING.
- The first 4 seconds of Beyond This Life are annoying.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 18, 2012, 08:09:36 AM
Quoting for agreement:

I Walk Beside You is one of the best songs on Octavarium.
- Falling into Infinity is a top 5 DT album.
Scenes is a great album , but the storyline is a little corny. 

M:2000 DVD is an absolute classic concert , but the concept footage leaves a bit to be desired. They should have used more stills instead of the footage.
Awake is their best album
Lie is awesome.

The sound clips in Home get on my nerves.
-I really like The Ministry of Lost Souls.

However, I don't really consider half of these controversial.
Also, lol @ the Score comment. I love the fact that it's just that good so people can't shut up about the fact how various parts are overdubbed :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: RoeDent on December 18, 2012, 08:31:47 AM
You Not Me and Burning My Soul are not bad songs.

Anna Lee and This Is the Life are two of the most beautiful DT songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: namgalsipsclar on December 18, 2012, 08:39:59 AM
The LATM version of The Killing Hand is a top 5 song.
Agreed
Also, In the name of god sucks
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonnybaxy on December 18, 2012, 08:42:48 AM
ADTOE is very overated.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lolzeez on December 18, 2012, 08:58:52 AM
The Killing Hand is a top 15 song
Metropolis is horribly overrated.
The Silent Man is the third best song on Awake.
I love Take Away My Pain and Just Let Me Breathe
Beyond This Life is the best song by DT.
Never was a huge fan of Finally Free
The Dance Of Eternity is the best instrumental by DT.
The Spirit Carries On is generic.
Misunderstood has an annoying outro.
Goodnight Kiss sucks.
Endless Sacrifice is the a top 5 song.
Stream Of Consciousness is boring.
Sacrificed Sons is the best song on Octavarium.
I love Constant Motion.
Repentance is awesome.
Build Me Up,Break Me Down is the worst song by DT.
Outcry is the best song on the album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zydar on December 18, 2012, 09:07:25 AM
- I find many fan favourites to be very overrated, like Octavarium, Scarred, Blind Faith, Lines In The Sand, and Trial Of Tears.
- Repentance and The Ministry Of Lost Souls bores me to tears.
- Another Day is a Top 3 DT song.
- I love both Take Away My Pain and The Best Of Times.
- Status Seeker is great.
- I Walk Beside You is one of the few highlights on that album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on December 18, 2012, 09:13:48 AM
- FII is better than SFAM, even though the latter is more consistent.
- Every part (except maybe for Overture) of 6DOIT is great, but they don't work that well together. Also, Goodnight Kiss is the best them.
- TMOLS rules, as does Prophets of War.
- No song from Awake, SDOIT, Scenes or I&W would make my Top 5 DT songs.
- Octavarium (the song) is overrated, but still good. Sacrificed Sons is superior in every sense, and my favourite off of the album.
- TGP isn't that great. Actually, it's the second worts song of the 12SS, with only TDS being less enjoyable.

Yeah, that's probably it for now.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 18, 2012, 09:16:33 AM
The Great Debate is a top 10 DT song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Marion Crane on December 18, 2012, 09:35:39 AM
I honestly think Scarred is one of they worst DT songs ever.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 18, 2012, 09:48:18 AM
- Cover My Eyes is a great song.
- So is Where Are You Now
- So is The Way It Used To Be
- New Millennium is crappy after the first 1,5 minute
- Train Of Thought is a bad album
- Octavarium is worse
Quoting for agreement:
I Walk Beside You is one of the best songs on Octavarium.
- Falling into Infinity is a top 5 DT album.
Scenes is a great album , but the storyline is a little corny. 

M:2000 DVD is an absolute classic concert , but the concept footage leaves a bit to be desired. They should have used more stills instead of the footage.
The sound clips in Home get on my nerves.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mebert78 on December 18, 2012, 09:54:19 AM
My only controversial opinions of DT are:

1) The Greatest Hits cover art is crap, in my opinion.  Yes, I know it was meant to be a joke.  But DT is a classy band and deserved to put out a classy greatest hits album.  Not an album with a sarcastic title and an illustration of a bird shitting.

2) It's unfortunate that Portnoy chose to trash Kevin Moore in the OSI chapter of the "Lifting Shadows" book and that the DT guys allowed his unclassy comments to be published in the book. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on December 18, 2012, 09:56:00 AM
My only controversial opinions of DT are:

1) The Greatest Hits cover art is crap, in my opinion.  Yes, I know it was meant to be a joke.  But DT is a classy band and deserved to put out a classy greatest hits album.  Not an album with a sarcastic title and an illustration of a bird shitting.

2) It's unfortunate that Portnoy chose to trash Kevin Moore in the OSI chapter of the "Lifting Shadows" book and that the DT guys allowed his unclassy comments to be published in the book.

I doubt either of those are controversial opinions.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on December 18, 2012, 10:00:18 AM
Every song could use more ragtime.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 18, 2012, 10:01:35 AM
It's unfortunate that Portnoy chose to trash Kevin Moore in the OSI chapter of the "Lifting Shadows" book and that the DT guys allowed his unclassy comments to be published in the book. 

That bugs me too but I don't know if they had a talk about this before publishing it and even they talked I don't think MP had cared what they said if others seemed negative about this chapter.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on December 18, 2012, 10:17:23 AM
The not-so subtle dig at Moore in the foreword of the book is much more offensive and unnecessary.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: phentalmyst on December 18, 2012, 10:33:37 AM
off topic:
-i dont have the book (but hope to with the next release). what was in the foreward?

on topic:
-i can't stand the trackorder of SC. ITPoE part 2 should've opened and TMOLS should've closed (altho the lyrics of the latter are most cringeworthy). ITPoE part 1 shouldn't have been included.
-anna lee and the answer lies within are songs i can't skip over fast enough.
-i listened to raw dog once. once.
-the shattered fortress is probably the worst DT song ever.
-it's hard to grasp that the best of times and the change of seasons were penned by the same guy from a lyrical depth standpoint.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on December 18, 2012, 10:37:23 AM
- BC&SL and SC are both better than ADToE

- Build Me Up Break Me Down is the worst song by DT since You Not Me

- Octavarium is DT's second worst album (Falling Into Infinity being the worst)

- SDoIT is boring and overrated (the song)

- The Glass Prison is ridiculously overrated on this forum and it drags on way too long.

All my opinions of course  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dacling on December 18, 2012, 10:43:03 AM
The Great Debate doesn't have enough sound clips.
Repentance is actually too short.
The Shattered Fortress is good on it's own.
Disappear has a happier ending than Mass Effect 3.
Systematic Chaos has too much soloing.
DT isn't influenced by Rush enough.
They also need to write a few more Muse and Tool songs.
Myung is too loud in the mix on most of their songs BUMBMD had it just right.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 18, 2012, 10:58:12 AM
A few more to my list:
-I find TSCO pretty overrated and cheesy
-Musically Disappear isn't that sad, only the piano intro is notably dark IMO
-I dislike Where Are You Now? with a passion, I'd rather listen to You Not Me, Never Enough or Prophets of War than that song (and that says something!)
-Status Seeker is great
-The Best of Times is too long and boring and the solo is overrated
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: a51502112 on December 18, 2012, 11:04:45 AM
I think the intro guitar solo for " The Spirit Carries On" from the M2000 DVD is embarrassingly tasteless.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 18, 2012, 11:06:34 AM
Some more:

Ytse Jam is easily the best DT instrumental. Stream of Consciousness is easily the worst--it probably drags more than any other DT song.
Another Day and Pull Me Under are better than Metropolis.
Goodnight Kiss is the best section of SDOIT the song. The song loses momentum once Solitary Shell starts.
Peruvian Skies and Anna Lee are pretty damn awesome. The former's instrumental section is one of DT's best.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 18, 2012, 11:20:23 AM
The Great Debate doesn't have enough sound clips.
Repentance is actually too short.
The Shattered Fortress is good on it's own.
Disappear has a happier ending than Mass Effect 3.
Systematic Chaos has too much soloing.
DT isn't influenced by Rush enough.
They also need to write a few more Muse and Tool songs.
Myung is too loud in the mix on most of there songs BUMBMD had it just right.
We have a winner :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 18, 2012, 11:22:38 AM
Ah! also:

- Disappear and The Great Debate are the best songs of SDOIT (1&2)
- Solitary Shell is not a good song (heresy)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 18, 2012, 11:37:02 AM
Okay, let's try and toss some of my own:

- JP's heaviest riffs are growing more boring, slowly but surely, over time.
- So do JR's orchestral and "dark" patches.
- If any of current DT members become unable to participate in DT anymore, I'd rather have them split up than continue with the band. I would still support them as always, but the current lineup is what DT should be in this day and age, and no other one.
- It's a great thing Kevin left DT.
- There's nothing wrong with 3-minute-instrumental sections.
- Pull Me Under IS overrated among casual fans, and very underrated among us.
- There's nothing wrong with either of the SDOIT discs, and I wouldn't have them any other way.
- I like the fact TSCO is on another live DVD, and I hope it will be on the next tour cycle as well so I could experience it live.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on December 18, 2012, 11:40:05 AM
The album version of Take Away My Pain is the better version.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jhonvictor on December 18, 2012, 12:02:36 PM

- No song from Awake, SDOIT, Scenes or I&W would make my Top 5 DT songs.


Holy shit. Those are my 4 favorite albums LOL.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on December 18, 2012, 12:10:36 PM
They're all great albums, sure, and SDOIT, I&W and Awake are my favourite, but they don't have any individual tracks that I can rank higher than the highs of DT's other, less consistent albums.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jhonvictor on December 18, 2012, 12:15:52 PM
You mean songs like This Dying Soul and Sacrificed Sons? Not saying those will be in your list, just giving examples.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on December 18, 2012, 12:20:27 PM
I mean songs that are considerably more awesome than the album that they are on as a whole. Sacrificed Sons fits that bill, though I don't rank it as highly. TDS is probably my second least favourite from ToT, so... no.

But if that's what you meant, yeah. I won't spoil my rankings right now, since it's my turn soon in the Top 50 thread (on the off chance that someone actually cares, but oh well), but if you view TDS and SS as songs such as these, then yeah.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: RuRoRul on December 18, 2012, 12:24:25 PM

- No song from Awake, SDOIT, Scenes or I&W would make my Top 5 DT songs.

I know there's lots of things that have been posted in this thread that are actually pretty common opinions on this forum (or commonly voiced opinions at least), but surely this one isn't all that controversial. Just because they're the most popular DT albums doesn't mean they have the individual songs everyone would rank highest.

Anyway, a few of mine:
- Awake is the worst of the JLB albums.
- Train Of Thought is the best DT album.
- The Dying Soul is a top 10 DT song.
- Honor Thy Father is top 20.
- No song from Awake would make my top 20.
- The Ministry Of Lost Souls is great, particularly its instrumental section (which is one of the best DT instrumental sections).
- The Count Of Tuscany is one of the absolute best DT songs (maybe not too controversial), and its lyrics are good apart from one verse (My brother).
- In The Presence Of Enemies is a top 10 DT song, on the same level as their other popular epics, and Part 2 is the best part of it.
- Take The Time is the best song from Images And Words - and I prefer the Greatest Hits mix of it.
- The Test That Stumped Them All is one of the best parts from SDOIT.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: chwik on December 18, 2012, 12:30:10 PM
JP's solo in "Under A Glass Moon" sucks!









Nah, just kidding!  :yarr
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dacling on December 18, 2012, 12:48:12 PM
These opinions almost upset me
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Podaar on December 18, 2012, 12:56:14 PM
-The instrumental section of The Ministry of Lost Souls fits the rest of the song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 18, 2012, 01:20:48 PM
Endless Sac.
Ministry
Space Dye

are all probaly top 15 if not top 10 for me
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 18, 2012, 01:34:59 PM
- BAI, tied with TOT, is the best song DT has ever composed since before I was born.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sketchy on December 18, 2012, 01:35:49 PM
- BAI, tied with TOT, is the best song DT has ever composed since before I was born.

YES. YES. YES. YES.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 18, 2012, 01:38:22 PM
- BAI, tied with TOT, is the best song DT has ever composed since before I was born.

YES. YES. YES. YES.

Having just checked your birthday on Facebook, the same cannot be said by you, right?  ::)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sketchy on December 18, 2012, 01:41:13 PM
Eh, I don't know. Those are probably my two favourites, although Metropolis is also pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Nel on December 18, 2012, 01:41:25 PM
These opinions almost upset me

Agreed. I... I can't even look at this topic anymore. You all disgust me.

But I still love you.  ;D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 18, 2012, 01:42:20 PM
Eh, I don't know. Those are probably my two favourites, although Metropolis is also pretty awesome.

Metropolis was written before you were born! :) And ACOS as well. Our birth dates are separated by LTL, TTT, UAGM and DLPM, I believe.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sketchy on December 18, 2012, 01:44:00 PM
hehe, Ah good, I'm not ancient yet then. In that case, I am assuming, your favourite is LTL.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 18, 2012, 01:45:41 PM
hehe, Ah good, I'm not ancient yet then. In that case, I am assuming, your favourite is LTL.

Assumptions, my friend, assumptions. True, perhaps  :-X

- Scarred is a top 10 DT song  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on December 18, 2012, 01:51:24 PM
Parts I and II Octavarium (Track) is better then III IV and V by a long shot.
Panic Attack may be the worst track DT has ever laid down
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sketchy on December 18, 2012, 01:57:00 PM
Well, it looked as if it were going that way. I do very much love that one too.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jhonvictor on December 18, 2012, 02:09:42 PM
Parts I and II Octavarium (Track) is better then III IV and V by a long shot.

That's not controversial, that's a fact.
- Another Day is EXTREMELY ANNOYING, and by far the worst song on the album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on December 18, 2012, 02:10:41 PM
Parts I and II Octavarium (Track) is better then III IV and V by a long shot.

That's not controversial, that's a fact.

I'm sure not everyone feels that way.  It's pretty slow, considering. But that's why I like it so much.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PROGdrummer on December 18, 2012, 02:17:51 PM
Black Clouds & Silver Linings > A Dramatic Turn of Events
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonnybaxy on December 18, 2012, 04:46:29 PM
Black Clouds & Silver Linings > A Dramatic Turn of Events


YES! YES!

- every album by DT is Better than ADToE.
- one last time is more than a 'filler'
- a rite of passage is go
- 'day after day' part of ANTR is amazing but didn't go with the previous section too well
- Both sides of SDOIT are amazing
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on December 18, 2012, 04:47:41 PM
Black Clouds & Silver Linings > A Dramatic Turn of Events

Agreed  :metal it may not be perfect but it just has so much more energy in my opinion. I don't listen to either album much any more, but I'm much more likely to listen to BC&SL than ADToE now. I know I'm in the minority here, but the songs on BC&SL have held my interest longer than ADToE has.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: philmcson on December 18, 2012, 04:49:07 PM
I seldomly listen to the album Metropolis pt.2. Maybe because of the fact that I often don't like things/music/people that are very popular (just as I don't like Maidens' Fear of the Dark)......
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on December 18, 2012, 05:09:53 PM
You don't listen to Scenes because it's popular? How very hipster of you.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: badger on December 18, 2012, 05:15:59 PM
Let's see:

Endless sacrifice=endless long
Sometimes songs seem to be drug out just to fill an album up --alot of BC&SL
"Great debate", "Blind Faith", "Glass prison"....Most of SDOIT awesome--can't get enough, heavy rotation on the itouch.
The intro to "Lost not Forgotten" is a time filler -the rest of the track is the 2nd best part of the album.
After seeing DT live this past summer- I will travel within 400 miles to see them again.
"Through her eyes" is way better than "Spirit Carries On"
I am glad Mangini is in DT instead of MP.

Opinion
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 54_diplomats on December 18, 2012, 06:29:11 PM
- Although not entirely controversial, Scarred is my favorite song.
- The Mirror is in my top 10
- When Dream and Day Unite is a great album.
- I like the studio version of The Killing Hand a tiny bit more than the Marquee version.
- Octavarium is in my top 3 albums
- Breaking all Illusions is overrated. Good song, but overrated.
- Beneath the Surface is the worst song on ADToE
- I like A Rite of Passage, Prophets of War, Honor Thy Father and Panic Attack. Not top 50, but I like em.
- I prefer Kevin Moore over Jordan Rudess
- Pull me Under is the worst song on Images and Words, though that isn't saying much since all of those songs are phenomenal.

And finally, although this isn't an opinion: Scenes From a Memory is the only album I haven't listened to yet. I will get to it though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: sfam2112 on December 18, 2012, 06:57:22 PM
In my opinion:
- the song Octavarium is a little overrated. It's definitely not a top 20 or 30 song, for me.
- Burning My Soul is a good song. I don't care much for the original version, though.
- "Breaking All Illusions" is a little too long. However, it did go over better live.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MetropolisWatches on December 18, 2012, 07:05:17 PM
I'm one of the few DT fans that actually digs "You Not Me". Also, I've never been in love with "Home" which seems to make many top 10 lists.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Implode on December 18, 2012, 07:23:59 PM
Aside from the solo, Under a Glass Moon is kind of boring for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on December 18, 2012, 07:28:28 PM
Speak to Me and Don't Look Past Me are both top 15 DT songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: goo-goo on December 18, 2012, 08:28:14 PM
Speak to Me and Don't Look Past Me are both top 15 DT songs.

The live version of Speak to Me is just amazing. Love it!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: mike099 on December 18, 2012, 08:30:50 PM
- Although not entirely controversial, Scarred is my favorite song.
- The Mirror is in my top 10
- When Dream and Day Unite is a great album.
- I like the studio version of The Killing Hand a tiny bit more than the Marquee version.
- Octavarium is in my top 3 albums
- Breaking all Illusions is overrated. Good song, but overrated.
- Beneath the Surface is the worst song on ADToE
- I like A Rite of Passage, Prophets of War, Honor Thy Father and Panic Attack. Not top 50, but I like em.
- I prefer Kevin Moore over Jordan Rudess
- Pull me Under is the worst song on Images and Words, though that isn't saying much since all of those songs are phenomenal.

And finally, although this isn't an opinion: Scenes From a Memory is the only album I haven't listened to yet. I will get to it though.

I am new to DT, but have listened to SFAM several times.  Takes some getting used to, but there are some great songs on the cd. rcenes d
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 18, 2012, 08:34:06 PM
Controversial Dislikes

- Endless Sacrifice is one of my least favorite DT songs.
- I said this before, but I cannot reiterate it enough-- aside from the first minute or so, The Glass Prison is among the worst of the DT catalogue.
- Trial of Tears is way overrated.
- The only songs on Awake that I can sit through are Erotomania, The Mirror, and Space-Dye Vest (which is one of DT's best songs).
- A Change of Seasons has some great parts, but is way overrated.
- I love SFAM, but Through Her Eyes is godawful.
- Outcry is pretty dreadful. Aside from the intro, I can hardly sit through it. Maybe tied for worst on ADTOE with Beneath the Surface and BMUBMD.

Controversial Likes

- DT pulls off Muse and Tool styles very well and in their own unique way.
- The Shattered Fortress is the best part of the 12-Step Suite.
- New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Anna Lee, and Hell's Kitchen are fantastic songs, every one of them.
- As I Am is an awesome song.
- DT should do more alt-rock songs a la Radiohead (Disappear is pretty much the only one as of now).
- Raw Dog is pretty awesome.
- I like the clips and quotes DT uses, Home included.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: voncorn on December 18, 2012, 08:56:48 PM
-
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 18, 2012, 09:07:00 PM
I'm gonna cheat and give some controversial LTE opinions.

- State of Grace is nice, but generally a skipped song.
- Biaxident is one of the best, if not the best LTE song.
- Chris and Kevin's Excellent Adventure is awesome and I wish they did more groovy experimenting like that in DT.
- Osmosis is amazing.
- The Stretch has some sweet soloing and isn't bad at all.
(basically, the "fillers" on the first LTE are darn good songs on their own)

- I can overlook the shallow and borderline silly lyrics of Goodnight Kiss because every other aspect of that song is perfect to my ears (especially the guitar solo). The song also happens to be my most listened to DT song according to my last.fm scrobbles.

- I don't see what's so great about A Change of Seasons and I would listen to Octavarium the song over it any day.

Quoted what I agree with. Goodnight Kiss is one of my favorite ever DT songs. The solo is fantastic, and what really seals the deal for me is the sick disco beat soloing at the end. And Octavarium kicks ACoS' butt any day of the week.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on December 18, 2012, 10:06:40 PM
I'm down with:

The Greatest Hits cover art is crap, in my opinion.  Yes, I know it was meant to be a joke.  But DT is a classy band and deserved to put out a classy greatest hits album.  Not an album with a sarcastic title and an illustration of a bird shitting.
Repentance is actually too short.
The Test That Stumped Them All is one of the best parts from SDOIT.
And add War Inside My Head to that - those two live were just amazingly killer.
Sometimes songs seem to be drug out just to fill an album up --alot of BC&SL
I am glad Mangini is in DT instead of MP.
As I Am is an awesome song.
I don't see what's so great about A Change of Seasons and I would listen to Octavarium the song over it any day.

Here's another one of my own:
The only DT song I literally cannot listen to is Sacrificed Sons.  That's not because I hate it - it's a good enough song.  It's the subject matter that makes it so difficult to listen to.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dacling on December 18, 2012, 11:27:25 PM
- I enjoy Charlie Dominici's vocals and prefer the original album to WDADRU, although that DVD is still pretty cool.

The problem with WDADRU is that Labrie wasn't at the top of his game. Some songs are better with Labrie in my opinion and some songs are better with Dominici. The Killing Hand, A Fortune in Lies, Only A Matter of Time are superior with Labrie while Status Seeker is better with Dominici and Afterlife is a Tie. Both are great and I wouldn't be able to say for Light Fuse and Get Away and The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun because I hardly ever listen to them.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: IdoSC on December 19, 2012, 02:36:45 AM
I can easily side with the OP on many of the statements there. I have a whole bunch of "controversial" DT opinions, but I think the one that sticks out the most, and the one that made my Top 50 list seem like a troll, is the fact that I actually like Your Majesty. Mostly the instrumental, mind you, because the live version with James LaBrie is right up there with LaBrie's worst performances ever, and...y'know...Chris Collins is Chris Collins. But I love the instrumental ver. to death, and I think that it could be a fantastic song if recorded in studio with JLB/done live on a good day with JLB.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Trial of Thought on December 19, 2012, 02:54:12 AM
- ADTOE is DT's worst album except for BAI and BTS
- Kevin > Derek > Jordan
- ITPOE Pt.1 is too short
- You Not Me is better than You Or Me
- SDOIT is not a good song except for Solitary Shell and Losing Time/Grand Finale
- LSFNY's version of The Mirror is better than the Album version
- CD is better than CC
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: IdoSC on December 19, 2012, 02:57:53 AM
- CD is better than CC
I don't think that one's so controversial...

Also, I kind of agree about YNM. While I don't care for either of them and both are extremely cheesy, something about the vocal dynamics in the chorus of YNM appeals to me more than YOM. And honestly, between those two versions of such a redundant song, that's a perfectly legit excuse for me to prefer one over the other in my opinion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: iamtheeviltwin on December 19, 2012, 09:44:47 AM
Metropolis is one of the weaker tracks on I&W.

Haven't wandered through the whole thread, but I agree wholeheartedly with this(and have taken some heat for expressing it before).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ryzee on December 19, 2012, 10:13:09 AM
Here's a few off the top of my head:


Derek was their best keyboard player

Falling Into Infinity is one of their best albums

Train of Thought is their lamest album

Panic Attack is a good song

The Count of Tuscany is one of their best songs

The instrumental/jam section in Beyond This Life is the best part of Scenes From a Memory, and one of the best DT moments period

ADTOE is cool and all, but there's just something missing without MP that I can't quite put my finger on
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: mike099 on December 19, 2012, 11:55:53 AM
I agree that the drum parts are not as forcefull with MM or ADTOE.

Just listened to SFAM all of the way thru and I cannot figure out how this record did not get nominated  for a grammy when it came out.  Fantastic recording. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 19, 2012, 01:02:33 PM
- The Way It Used To Be is a great song!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PROGdrummer on December 19, 2012, 02:32:24 PM
The instrumental/jam section in Beyond This Life is the best part of Scenes From a Memory, and one of the best DT moments period

I can agree with this statement
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonnybaxy on December 19, 2012, 03:39:13 PM
The instrumental/jam section in Beyond This Life is the best part of Scenes From a Memory, and one of the best DT moments period

I can agree with this statement

Except the stupid horn keyboard sound right? If so then I'll agree
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 19, 2012, 03:41:20 PM
- The Extended Zappa Jam (2004) is better than the rest of Beyond This Life. Way better.

- Score would have benefitted by the absence of SDOIT in the setlist.

- Once In A Lifetime is a treasure of a Live Album!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ryzee on December 19, 2012, 03:42:41 PM

The instrumental/jam section in Beyond This Life is the best part of Scenes From a Memory, and one of the best DT moments period

I can agree with this statement

Except the stupid horn keyboard sound right? If so then I'll agree

No, that's awesome.  Although admittedly I pay more attention to the groove underneath at that part.  Love that riff that JP & JM play under that solo.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonnybaxy on December 19, 2012, 03:45:27 PM

The instrumental/jam section in Beyond This Life is the best part of Scenes From a Memory, and one of the best DT moments period

I can agree with this statement

Except the stupid horn keyboard sound right? If so then I'll agree

No, that's awesome.  Although admittedly I pay more attention to the groove underneath at that part.  Love that riff that JP & JM play under that solo.

Good rhythm, awful sound
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dublagent66 on December 19, 2012, 03:48:44 PM
The Ministry of lost souls is my 2nd favorite Dream Theater song.

That might be it.  :smiley:

It's not my 2nd favorite, but still a damn a good song that most people just don't seem to get.  The instrumental section doesn't fit or something like that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 19, 2012, 03:55:59 PM

The instrumental/jam section in Beyond This Life is the best part of Scenes From a Memory, and one of the best DT moments period

I can agree with this statement

Except the stupid horn keyboard sound right? If so then I'll agree

No, that's awesome.  Although admittedly I pay more attention to the groove underneath at that part.  Love that riff that JP & JM play under that solo.

Good rhythm, awful sound

Beyond this Life actually features some of my favorite Rudess sounds, including the horns. It's his guitar like distorted lead sound that I find awful(e.g. This Dying Soul, not even the wah-wah can help it, if anything, it makes it even worse and the first part of his Budokan solo is also laughable), because what's the point of having keyboards if you make it sound like a guitar? You can have a heavy lead which sounds like keyboards and Jordan got that right on SFAM.

Oh, and yeah, BTL is top 5 material.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonnybaxy on December 19, 2012, 03:58:45 PM
*insert any SFAM song* is top 5 material.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 19, 2012, 04:04:36 PM
*insert any SFAM song* is top 5 material.
But there's more than 5 of them? :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on December 19, 2012, 04:08:38 PM
*insert any SFAM song* is top 5 material.
Hmm, that's a bit strange, I thought a top 5 had only 5 songs in it; and SFAM has more than 5  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on December 19, 2012, 04:32:48 PM
Only one song is top 5 material on SFAM for me, and that is BTL.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on December 19, 2012, 04:43:57 PM
Besides the intro, the keyboard solo is the best part of The Shattered Fortress.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonnybaxy on December 19, 2012, 04:45:19 PM
Just saying that any SFAM song is top 5 worthy bit if you are gunna get all pedantic about it...

*insert any SFAM song* is top 12 material
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ryzee on December 19, 2012, 05:16:05 PM
the keyboard solo is the best part of The Shattered Fortress.

I'm Ryzee and I approve this message.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 19, 2012, 11:08:24 PM
the keyboard solo is the best part of The Shattered Fortress.

I'm Ryzee and I approve this message.

Thirded. I love The Shattered Fortress.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 20, 2012, 02:59:09 AM
Inspired by the recent posts:
-The horns in BTL sound goddamn awful
-While Scenes is a great album overall, none of the songs from that record would make my top 20
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Fisi on December 20, 2012, 10:35:44 AM
-A Dramatic Turn of Events is the best album Dream Theater has made so far
-JLB's aggressive vocal style on Awake is a bit annoying
-The Bebot solo in A Rite of Passage is amazing
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: lithium112 on December 20, 2012, 11:12:53 AM
-The Bebot solo in A Rite of Passage is amazing

You know, I didn't like it  much on the record but for some reason live it was really awesome!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 20, 2012, 11:45:12 AM
So it's controversial to like the instrumental section of BTL? It's definitely one of their coolest moments.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PROGdrummer on December 20, 2012, 01:17:43 PM
the horn patch Jordan uses in BTL sounds awesome.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Glass Moonlight on December 20, 2012, 04:23:51 PM
Mike Portnoy is a bitch
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on December 20, 2012, 06:13:05 PM
So much for this thread.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PROGdrummer on December 20, 2012, 07:36:59 PM
Mike Portnoy is a bitch

(http://stickerish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/AreYouKiddingMeBlackSS.png)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Polis on December 20, 2012, 09:14:43 PM
train of thought is underrated, SFAM is overrated.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ThatcrazyKISSfan on December 20, 2012, 09:15:09 PM
SFAM is good, but overrated.  (concept albums in general seem to be overrated, notable exception The Elder by KISS, vastly underrated)

Awake kind of sucks, and I have a feeling I wouldn’t put “kind of” had they left off SDV.

Falling into Infinity is a great album…so is BC&SL(minus AROP and Wither), those 2 down-grade it to a good album.

Jordan Rudess is too technically proficient for his own good.  Take Beneath the Surface…why does he have to use all those effects?  Just play something simple on the piano….I’ve learned to live with what he does in that song, but uggh. 


Also what was said about KM in the book?  I'd find out for myself, but it costs what 300 bucks or something last I checked....since it's out of print...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Polis on December 20, 2012, 09:48:17 PM
things about this thread:
1. so many people say that train of thought sucks that it is no longer a controversial opinion
2. same goes for FII being good
3. why do people hate metropolis, scarred and ADTOE so much?
4. people who don't "get" awake have not listened to it enough or make preconceptions on the outdated sound (stupid snare, stringy keyboards, and terrible mixing overall)
5. Why do people compare octavarium to ACOS? It seems weird that they are different moods, time periods, and ideas yet every single person who has mentioned either of those songs compared it to each other. (PS: they are both amazing songs)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 20, 2012, 10:31:08 PM
I think Systematic Chaos is one of the best albums DT has ever done, and definitely THE best since the year 2000.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Glass Moonlight on December 20, 2012, 10:37:24 PM
Mike Portnoy is a bitch

(http://stickerish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/AreYouKiddingMeBlackSS.png)
Controversial opinion, what this thread is all about. I like Mike Portnoy as a drummer, but as a person he really makes me mad sometimes.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: theseoafs on December 20, 2012, 10:39:21 PM
^You should stay away from comments like that, buddy. It's in violation of forum rules. You'd do well to edit your post.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Glass Moonlight on December 20, 2012, 11:43:15 PM
^You should stay away from comments like that, buddy. It's in violation of forum rules. You'd do well to edit your post.
Are you serious? I completely respect this forum and if I am out of line here I'm sorry, but isn't that the whole point of this thread?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: theseoafs on December 20, 2012, 11:45:10 PM
No, this thread is for controversial opinions. "Mike Portnoy is a bitch" isn't a controversial opinion, it's a personal attack.

Anyway, I'm not a mod or anything, so it's really none of my business, but I figured I'd let you know since that kind of language isn't tolerated by the higher-ups.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 21, 2012, 12:20:19 AM
No, this thread is for controversial opinions. "Mike Portnoy is a bitch" isn't a controversial opinion, it's a personal attack.
This. Besides, MP is a member here so he might see that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Glass Moonlight on December 21, 2012, 01:02:02 AM
No, this thread is for controversial opinions. "Mike Portnoy is a bitch" isn't a controversial opinion, it's a personal attack.
This. Besides, MP is a member here so he might see that.
After thinking about it, my attack to him wasn't at all just. I have no reason to judge him as a person. Not only that, but my attack at him wasn't justified in my original post. With that said, again, judging him as a person was very wrong.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 21, 2012, 03:28:41 AM
4. people who don't "get" awake have not listened to it enough or make preconceptions on the outdated sound (stupid snare, stringy keyboards, and terrible mixing overall)

No.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 21, 2012, 03:38:54 AM
James' writing ability is better than both JP and MP. I wish he wrote more lyrics.

Don't know if it is controversial or not though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 21, 2012, 03:46:28 AM
James' writing ability is better than both JP and MP. I wish he wrote more lyrics.

Don't know if it is controversial or not though.

Well, debatable, surely. His style his unique, even though I am not sure I appreciate his best lyrics over JP's best. Disappear vs. Voices, which one would win?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 21, 2012, 03:51:58 AM
I think Disappear is the best lyric of DT. But yes, you can't simply decide by having just a few lyrics of James. Overall JP has many amazing lyrics but JLB has just a few amazing lyrics because he's already written a few lyrics.  :biggrin:

KM, on the other hand, is the best lyricist, IMO.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: XJDenton on December 21, 2012, 04:22:03 AM
^You should stay away from comments like that, buddy. It's in violation of forum rules. You'd do well to edit your post.
Are you serious? I completely respect this forum and if I am out of line here I'm sorry, but isn't that the whole point of this thread?

All opinions need to be framed in the right way. Calling someone a bitch is not. Consider this a friendly reminder not to do so in the future.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: hefdaddy42 on December 21, 2012, 06:22:22 AM
And please modify your original post.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: tnphelps on December 21, 2012, 07:25:28 AM
I have never liked The Glass Prison either. Worst song on the CD IMO. Awake is not my least favorite (that honor would go to SC),  but would rank in the bottom half.

I thought this might be an interesting topic-- thinking of any thoughts you have on DT songs or albums that you think will spark mass debate and not sit well with the general crowd.

For me, I have never liked the Glass Prison much at all, and it probably doesn't rank in the top 40 for me. I think Octavarium (the song) is leagues above A Change of Seasons. I think Octavarium is a fantastic album (way better than Awake). I also love the Shattered Fortress, The Dark Eternal Night, This is the Life, and Far From Heaven. And probably the major one is that Awake is one of my least favorite DT albums. It has  a couple good songs, but most of it is bland and a drag to sit through. The songs on Awake are by far my least listened to DT songs, sans WDaDU.

Forgive me if a thread like this has already been created, but otherwise I think this should be pretty interesting. Haters gonna hate.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: tnphelps on December 21, 2012, 07:40:18 AM
The Ministry of lost souls is my 2nd favorite Dream Theater song.

That might be it.  :smiley:

It's not my 2nd favorite, but still a damn a good song that most people just don't seem to get.  The instrumental section doesn't fit or something like that.

I agree!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 21, 2012, 10:46:27 AM
Awake kind of sucks, and I have a feeling I wouldn’t put “kind of” had they left off SDV.

Falling into Infinity is a great album…so is BC&SL(minus AROP and Wither), those 2 down-grade it to a good album.

Jordan Rudess is too technically proficient for his own good.  Take Beneath the Surface…why does he have to use all those effects?  Just play something simple on the piano….I’ve learned to live with what he does in that song, but uggh. 

Agree with all of this. I do love lots of Jordan's uber-technical parts, when they fit a song, but he could tone it down for songs that aren't deserving of weird effects and crazy soloing. Also, we need more classical piano in DT.

And here's something that could stir a lot of toruble-- don't get me wrong, DT is my favorite band ever and nothing has every gotten in the way of me loving DT songs, but I want it to be said that DT generally has bad lyrics. Not terrible, and not all of them of bad. They don't stop me from loving their songs, and nearly all of them are bearable (except maybe Count of Tuscany...), but if I ever listen to a song just for the lyrics, it doesn't leave much of an impression on me. I like DT for the music.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 21, 2012, 10:52:08 AM
I actually don't think Chris Collins is a horrible vocalist.  A large part of the problem was the crappy recording equipment they had with him.  He is no James LaBrie by far but when I listen to the Majesty demos I really don't mind his voice at all. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 21, 2012, 11:25:06 AM
I actually don't think Chris Collins is a horrible vocalist.  A large part of the problem was the crappy recording equipment they had with him.  He is no James LaBrie by far but when I listen to the Majesty demos I really don't mind his voice at all.
I agree. I can't speak for right now, his recent stuff I've heard was kind of shit, but back on the Majesty demos, I actually liked his voice better than Dominici's, he definitely had more power.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: philmcson on December 21, 2012, 05:31:08 PM
I think Systematic Chaos is one of the best albums DT has ever done, and definitely THE best since the year 2000.

Yup, imo it is a great album, but I personally would highlight BCSL from the 2007-2011 period, and from 2000-2007 I like all of their releases "equally"....
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ColdFireYYZ on December 21, 2012, 05:57:25 PM
1. Octavarium is a top 5 DT album.
2. Space-Dye Vest is the best song on Awake.
3. Despite number 2, Rudess>Sherinian>Moore.
4. I wish DT used sound clips more often, like in The Great Debate. However, I'm not a big fan of the clips in Home.
5. Octavarium > A Change of Seasons.
6. I love The Big Medley.
7. Forsaken is a good song.
8. I love the "wanking" part of Fatal Tragedy.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: toro on December 21, 2012, 06:32:23 PM
Got so over Octavarium it suxorz, I never ever get the need to listen to it anymore, the only part I still like is the moog solo. A Change Of Seaons shits all over it, simply because ACOS feels like a natural cohesive song, while 8VM just feels like they tried(like in their last albums with MP.)
 to make an epic song with different ideas thrown in together.

Also TSCO makes me cringe now. The solo is still pretty cool.

Aside from those 2 I still love me some DT.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Yoshi Yogurt on December 21, 2012, 06:39:35 PM
Strange deja vu is the best song on SFAM

Panic Attack is a Top 10 song for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on December 21, 2012, 08:32:25 PM
Lots of trololol posts here so i'll contribute.

POW is the best song of SC.
Home in SFAM gives me a woody.
Cowbell action in CIAW is the best part of Awake.
Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.
I Walk Beside You should have been a radio top 40 hit.
There's nothing erotic about Erotomania.
A Rite Of Passage is the best song of BC&SL.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 22, 2012, 02:13:15 AM
Strange deja vu is the best song on SFAM
:tup, especially when paired up with Overture.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cable on December 22, 2012, 03:38:05 AM
May have already been said;

-MP's clean backing vocals were very good at times.
-LITS and TofTears are overrated.
-UAGM is the weakest song on I&W.
-Awake is hit or miss sometimes, with Voices being a chief culprit of this.
-Misunderstood's outro can be enjoyable
-8V is overrated as an epic, and ITPOE is more intense than 8V.
-Some of JP's solos are subpar, and ADTOE was a big contributor to solos that miss the mark.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 22, 2012, 07:37:44 AM

A Rite Of Passage is the best song of BC&SL.

Yes!  I agree!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 22, 2012, 07:51:47 AM
The last two posts are the definition of controversial. To be honest, I agree with 0% of them (no, actually the MP one fits my view) :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on December 22, 2012, 09:27:04 AM
Not sure if this is controversial but...

The chorus of I Walk Beside You seems like it would fit perfectly in a cheesy trailer for a chick flick.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 22, 2012, 11:49:00 AM
I think Systematic Chaos is one of the best albums DT has ever done, and definitely THE best since the year 2000.

Not one of the best, but I agree with the second part.

-Misunderstood's outro can be enjoyable
-8V is overrated as an epic, and ITPOE is more intense than 8V.

 :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: toro on December 22, 2012, 12:23:40 PM
Lots of trololol posts here so i'll contribute.
Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.
DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

Well, it is a Controversial Opinions thread afterall.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: olliemedsy on December 22, 2012, 02:00:32 PM

- The Glass Prison is ridiculously overrated on this forum and it drags on way too long.

All my opinions of course  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on December 22, 2012, 02:14:57 PM
Lots of trololol posts here so i'll contribute.
Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.
DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

Well, it is a Controversial Opinions thread afterall.

What's not epic about vampires and dark masters?  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 22, 2012, 02:25:54 PM
Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.

What.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on December 22, 2012, 02:50:27 PM
Lots of trololol posts here so i'll contribute.
Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.
DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

Well, it is a Controversial Opinions thread afterall.

What's not epic about vampires and dark masters?  :lol

And your answer is       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti0H-bvMi3I
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DTFan0789 on December 22, 2012, 02:53:32 PM
Dream Theater has never released anything bad. Ever.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on December 22, 2012, 03:24:39 PM
Lots of trololol posts here so i'll contribute.
Forsaken has the best lyrical content of any DT song. In fact, SC is a lyrical masterpiece.
DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

Well, it is a Controversial Opinions thread afterall.

What's not epic about vampires and dark masters?  :lol

And your answer is       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti0H-bvMi3I

Great movie.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on December 22, 2012, 03:53:33 PM
Catching up on this thread but I wanted to add this:

JP was a much more innovated and interesting guitar player pre-SDOIT. Pretty much when he signed with Ernie Ball I feel his work as a guitar player has been as good as his Ibanez days not saying the guitar had anything to do with it.

When I listen to "Bombay Vindaloo" and the extended "To Live Forever" jam I hear some amazing, creative guitar player. When I hear things like the extended Hollow Years solo or the BTL jam from Budokan I just hear shredding that is pretty forgettable. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on December 22, 2012, 04:41:38 PM
Ok in all seriousness I truly believe that SC is a very under appreciated album. It has some fun to listen songs like TDEK and ITPOE is a great epic. POW though, ranks as my least favorite DT song ever, even worse than SDV from Awake.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tunnel Vision on December 22, 2012, 05:12:38 PM
TDEN's instrumental section may be the best part of the song...It feels very 'fun' to me
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 22, 2012, 11:20:14 PM
My least favorite thing about DT's music is when they do long instrumental sections that consist mostly of riffs. I wish they would have more songs where the instrumental sections consisted mostly of solos (either one solo, tradeoffs, or multiple solos throughout the song) then having one mammoth section that is 2/3 a bunch of "establishing riffs" and jamming. Like the first part of the TMOLS instrumental, or the first two minutes of The Reckoning, or all the TDEN stuff. It's not like it never works (a lot of the early stuff used it well), but since ToT I feel like it's become a tired formula to stretch songs out that tends to interrupt the flow of things. I know DT is known for being all jammy and proggy, and I'm as big a pusher of big song lengths as anyone on this forum, but I just wish the instrumental time was used more for playing off the pre-existing feel of a song than taking several minutes to establish a new feel and jam over it for no clear reason.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jsem on December 23, 2012, 07:53:34 AM
Strange deja vu is the best song on SFAM
Agreed.

Oh, and Razor's Edge is completely overrated. Full Circle is the best part of the 8vm the song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on December 23, 2012, 08:02:33 AM
I agree on the Razor's Edge part, but I actually prefer Intervals. It's a great climax to the song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 08:02:58 AM
Ok, I think I've gathered up the courage to post my list. To keep some balance, I'm making sure to include both positive and negative opinions. I see I'm not the only person to arrange it this way. :tup
Disclaimer - Obviously these are just my opinions, but it's easier to write it this way, and it's what everyone else is doing anyway.

CONTROVERSIALLY NEGATIVE
WDADU is so amateurish and poorly written that I don't count it as a real DT album.
ADTOE is near the bottom of DT's discography, and has the worst mix/production of any DT album besides WDADU.
The last half hour of Awake drags the album down to one of DT's weakest, and Scarred is DT's worst song since WDADU (yep, worse than Lie, YNM, BMS, TAMP, JLMB, IWBY, NE etc)
LTL is the weakest song on IaW, due to its weak vocal melodies and phrasing. (Aside from those flaws, it is otherwise a great song)
I'm going to use the word weak again just to see if anybody's paying attention.
ACOS is overrated (but still a decent song), and Octavarium is the far superior epic, and much more musically cohesive.
OIALT is ruined by DS's poor playing and JLB's voice during that era (but both have managed to improve to excellent in more recent times :tup)
Kevin Moore was an average lyricist, and no better than anyone else in the band.

CONTROVERSIALLY POSITIVE
SC is a great album (even though I don't consider it one of DT's best by any means), and hugely underrated.
TDEN is a top 20 DT song, and has one of DT's best instrumental sections.
IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
FII is one of DT's best albums (4th for me just behind SDOIT/SFAM/IaW).
MP's harmonies (along with JP's) are one of the best features of modern DT albums that is sorely lacking on ADTOE (bring back more JP backing vocals dangit! And maybe JR too. This would be swell.)
A lot of DT's straight ahead metal songs like As I Am, TROAE, and CM, are top tier DT songs.
SDOIT is DT's best album in every regard, and the title track is a masterpiece, and DT's best long song.
TGP is a top 5 DT song (I rank it 1 or 2, but I'll be lenient and allow up to top 5 before I rage at you :biggrin:). I probably wouldn't have added this one if there weren't so many non-believers in this thread.
Vacant is DT's most emotional ballad.


Deal with it!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 23, 2012, 08:12:49 AM
IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
Ahh hellyeah!!  :metal We are now BBF Blob-san!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 08:13:49 AM
Great! Let's go listen to some Firehouse! :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 23, 2012, 08:19:16 AM
Yes let's do dat! Baby, don't treat me baaaaaad! Kaffwwwwwwww!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 08:25:42 AM
I'm much more of a fan of Hold Your Fire.

:slayer: Whoooooaaaa we'll rock you tonight! We're gonna rock you tonight! :slayer:


Inspirational stuff.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on December 23, 2012, 08:45:23 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 08:50:38 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken. :biggrin:

But Dokken wasn't produced by the same guy as IaW, so that doesn't work! :getoffmylawn:


Oh fine. :slayer: We're the dreeeeeeeeeeam warrioooooooors!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on December 23, 2012, 09:04:30 AM
Quote
  Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on December 23, 2012, 09:12:50 AM
I agree with the majority of Blob's opinions, except a few, most notably on TGP, which COULD be a top 5 song for me, but there is way too much fat that needs to be trimmed off  :lol In other words it drags on way too long and could benefit from being cleaned up a bit. It's somewhere in my top 20-25 though.

Also... in my opinion 8vm could've been a masterpiece but the full circle part is really weak and James' vocals are cringeworthy. But the rest of the song is awesome.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 23, 2012, 09:16:15 AM
Quote
  Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.

Really? Because this is one of the most musical and interesting drum solos I've heard in a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvH1Y20cJ6M
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on December 23, 2012, 09:30:34 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*



At least use Dokken. :biggrin:

But Dokken wasn't produced by the same guy as IaW, so that doesn't work! :getoffmylawn:


Oh fine. :slayer: We're the dreeeeeeeeeeam warrioooooooors!

Much better! :metal :lol

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 23, 2012, 10:02:44 AM
Quote
  Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".

It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.
It's not always black and white, good players can incorporate brilliant technic and maintain 100% feel and musicality. Those are the ones i look up to, not just one of each. I will never look down on someone how has brilliant technic no matter what because you can't fake technical stuff even if it sounds a little ruff, it takes alot of practice. Musicality and virtuosity should always go hand and hand and are equally important even if you play the simplest form of music.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 23, 2012, 10:23:04 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*
So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ? :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 10:25:29 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*
So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ? :biggrin:

(http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_7076_1354406123.gif)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on December 23, 2012, 10:32:11 AM
*Evil glare at BVD & MrBoom for the Firehouse reference*
So I'm too late to say Reach for the skyyyy or I will shoot you down in a blink of an eyeeeee ? :biggrin:

(http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_7076_1354406123.gif)
(http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_7076_1354406123.gif)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 23, 2012, 10:51:19 AM
I foresee that the Milena reaction will be the 2013 DTF phenomenon.

Anyway, once again, clarify your quotes, dissipate my ignorance :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 23, 2012, 10:52:07 AM
I foresee that the Milena reaction will be the 2013 DTF phenomenon.

Wasn't it already the 2012 DTF phenomenon? :lol It's just so endlessly versatile!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sketchy on December 23, 2012, 10:55:57 AM
And so delightful.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 23, 2012, 01:58:43 PM
The triggered snare sounds kind of weird in spots on IAW (fast rolls in particular), but otherwise I totally agree. I love me some 80s production.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cable on December 23, 2012, 04:03:50 PM
The triggered snare sounds kind of weird in spots on IAW (fast rolls in particular), but otherwise I totally agree. I love me some 80s production.


I love how the triggered snare sounds starting with the new riff @ 7:23 during Metropolis Pt. I. All live recordings  of the song make me frown during that riff section because the triggered snare adds fitting power during the riff.

And while on Metropolis Pt. I...
-Minus the live intro with the Score version, the WDADR version is superior to the Score version of Met pt.1.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 23, 2012, 04:49:33 PM
IAW's production is awesome, including the '80s triggered snare. ESPECIALLY the triggered snare!
FII is one of DT's best albums (4th for me just behind SDOIT/SFAM/IaW).

Those are the only two things you said I agree with (except FII is 4th for me behind Awake/IAW/SFAM). :lol  I do think OIALT is hampered by LaBrie's performance, which isn't a controversial opinion, but Derek's playing is fine.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 23, 2012, 04:51:10 PM
Those are the only two things you said I agree with (except FII is 4th for me behind Awake/IAW/SFAM). :lol  I do think OIALT is hampered by LaBrie's performance, which isn't a controversial opinion, but Derek's playing is fine.

Oh, yeah, my controversial opinion is that OYALT is sung quite well, and that the vocal performance doesn't diminish the awesomeness of the record nor the amount of enjoyment on my part.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on December 23, 2012, 05:04:20 PM
Dunno how controversial this is but I think FII is better than SC.

New Millenium. Trial of Tears. Lines In The Sand. Hell's Kitchen.

All better than anything on SC.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 23, 2012, 05:05:34 PM
Dunno how controversial this is but I think FII is better than SC.

New Millenium. Trial of Tears. Lines In The Sand. Hell's Kitchen.

All better than anything on SC.

I don't think that's very controversial. I heavily disagree though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 23, 2012, 05:05:46 PM
TMOLS-ITPOE2 is the best consecutive 30-minute stretch of music in DT history.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on December 23, 2012, 05:16:04 PM
TMOLS is good but drags like a bitch and ITPOE part 2 is just average compared to other DT songs .


I much prefer Sacrificed Sons - Octvarium.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: alirocker08 on December 23, 2012, 05:56:05 PM
Vacant is my favourite DT song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 23, 2012, 06:23:15 PM
TMOLS is good but drags like a bitch and ITPOE part 2 is just average compared to other DT songs .


I much prefer Sacrificed Sons - Octvarium.

I love Octavarium, but SS is very ordinary and like someone else said earlier, the subject matter makes it hard to swallow for me at times. I'd probably take TBOT->TCOT over those two, actually.

Oh, controversy. It's fun.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 23, 2012, 07:48:05 PM
Vacant is my favourite DT song.

Vacant was the very first DT song that I liked, and it's still one of my favorites. I love the celllo. Respect for anyone whose favorite DT song is Vacant.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: snapple on December 23, 2012, 10:08:59 PM
Six Degrees is a weak album (especially Disc 2)
Octavarium is not a good song. at all. Fact.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Polis on December 23, 2012, 10:19:26 PM
SFAM is bad.

AMA
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on December 24, 2012, 05:05:44 AM
Six Degrees is a weak album (especially Disc 2)
Octavarium is not a good song. at all. Fact.

SFAM is bad.

AMA

Both of these are sooooooooo wrong.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 24, 2012, 06:20:57 AM
Without Jordan's Moog solo, Octavarium would be mediocre. Because of it, it's top 15 material.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 24, 2012, 12:20:36 PM
TMOLS-ITPOE2 is the best consecutive 30-minute stretch of music in DT history.


Hell Yes
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 24, 2012, 12:39:34 PM
TMOLS-ITPOE2 is the best consecutive 30-minute stretch of music in DT history.


Hell Yes

Unless you count their live shows, in which case, I think Learning To Live + A Change of Seasons from LSFNY tops it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 24, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
TMOLS-ITPOE2 is the best consecutive 30-minute stretch of music in DT history.


Hell Yes

Unless you count their live shows, in which case, I think Learning To Live + A Change of Seasons from LSFNY tops it.

Good call--that's close. Really wish there was an F# in LTL there though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 24, 2012, 01:07:45 PM
I am disappoint at the lack of F# but I respect the fact that he still gave us something instead of not doing anything at all
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on December 24, 2012, 01:36:32 PM
My controversial opinions will be shared when I do my list on the Top 50 DT Songs. That should be sometime between 2014 and 2020.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 24, 2012, 02:20:49 PM
My controversial opinions will be shared when I do my list on the Top 50 DT Songs. That should be sometime between 2014 and 2020.

You are pretty optimist.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 24, 2012, 02:32:52 PM
Good call--that's close. Really wish there was an F# in LTL there though.

Yes, but I would say that the extended outro made up for it. I mean, I don't know, maybe that's the outro they play live all the time, they obviously wouldn't fade out live music, but hearing it that way was very cool.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 24, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
I will say I'm glad James didn't go for the C# in Crimson Sunset in LSFNY though. That note doesn't even sound good on record, so it probably would've been painful live.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 24, 2012, 03:27:51 PM
I will say I'm glad James didn't go for the C# in Crimson Sunset in LSFNY though. That note doesn't even sound good on record, so it probably would've been painful live.

"I will live ooooooooooooooooooon" ... -drum fill-


?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 24, 2012, 03:31:25 PM
I will say I'm glad James didn't go for the C# in Crimson Sunset in LSFNY though. That note doesn't even sound good on record, so it probably would've been painful live.

"I will live ooooooooooooooooooon" ... -drum fill-


?

No, the "offbeaten traaAAAAACK"
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on December 24, 2012, 04:37:22 PM
oooooooooooh ok
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on December 24, 2012, 07:07:40 PM
-Triggered Snare, among other things, gives Images and Words more of a dark eighties feel. I like that a lot.
-A Dramatic Turn of Events is one of my favorites
-Awake is good, but drags on just a bit.
-Score is awesome, but I think that The Great Debate would have been cool to play with an orchestra. (Six Degrees was a great choice though.
-If I had to see Dream Theater Cover an album that they haven't done yet (and released a bootleg), it would probably be either Moving Pictures or Power Windows.
-John>John :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 24, 2012, 09:43:13 PM
-John>John :neverusethis:
Since we're talking controversial opinions here, it should be quite obvious which John is which.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BanksD on December 25, 2012, 08:21:17 AM
Some of my controversial opinions

-Octavarium is easily in the top 3 of DT's best work in my book (even above the likes of Awake, ADTOE, and 6 Degrees)
-ADTOE  was a really good album on first impression but has not aged well for me
-Surrounded is DTs best piece lyrically speaking
-most of the albums released since SDOIT (save Octavarium) have all been great collections of songs that just do not work well as full albums (specifically Train of Thought and Systematic Chaos)
-Dream Theater's solos as of late (at least 75% of them) have not felt very impressive or all that innovative and have for the most part been more of the same
-Repentance is by far and away my least favorite DT song but it is probably the only one I refuse to sit through (though I will concede it has it's moments)
-FII has a lot of outright medicore songs but works amazingly as a full album


Most of these are probably not the most controversial of opinions but eh, whatever.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 25, 2012, 08:33:26 AM
Where are you now? Has Dereks best keyboard leads with DT. And is a fantastic gem.

Prophets of War is great and a well written song, MP's spoken word part could've been left off leaving the underline guitar which would've made the song way better.

The Shattered Fortress is the best AA Suite song. It does its job of summarizing and the Inventory lyrics dont bother me at all
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on December 25, 2012, 09:19:28 AM
-ADTOE  was a really good album on first impression but has not aged well for me

I feel the same about the album... most of it is just bland and uninteresting to me now.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: nikatapi on December 25, 2012, 09:43:18 AM
I don't like almost all JR synth solos, as well as his interpretations of older solos (He ruins Take The Time imo with his improvisations)

I think Metropolis Pt.2 would be much more interesting with Derek on keyboards

MP's drumming after FII was just rehashing the same parts over and over again

JP rushes his solos many times during live performances (not so much now with MM)

I liked MP's spoken part during Prophets of War

I like the triggered sound of the drums in I&W

FII has the best production among DT albums

JLB sounds great on OIALT




Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 25, 2012, 12:31:17 PM
Prophets of War is great and a well written song, MP's spoken word part could've been left off leaving the underline guitar which would've made the song way better.

The Shattered Fortress is the best AA Suite song. It does its job of summarizing and the Inventory lyrics dont bother me at all

YES.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 25, 2012, 12:36:22 PM
Prophets of War is great and a well written song, MP's spoken word part could've been left off leaving the underline guitar which would've made the song way better.

The Shattered Fortress is the best AA Suite song. It does its job of summarizing and the Inventory lyrics dont bother me at all

YES.
Third..ed...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LCArenas on December 25, 2012, 12:46:18 PM
Metropolis Part I is in my top 20 DT songs. As in, not in the top 5, top 10 or top 15. Top 20; And Not as good as the majority of songs in I&W.

I'm ready to die.



Also:
The Ministry of Lost Souls is the best song on SC, and it would be one of the best DT songs ever if it wasn't for the overlong instrumental section
I don't like to listen to Outcry just because of the song's ending. It fits so bad I don't like to hear the entire song because I know how bad it's going to end.
Never Enough would be a good song if it wasn't for the intro and James' Bellamyesque singing in the verses.
ADTOE has aged well after a year, and that's something I can't say about SC or BC&SL.
People should appreciate Bombay Vindaloo and the Another Hand intro to The Killing Hand more.
Eve is a beautiful song, yet I don't feel it would fit in any of DT's albums. Maybe in the ACoS EP. I feel there should be a studio version with the sound samples heard in some of the live versions and the current one without them.
Chaos in Motion is the most unnecessary album/video release in all of DT history.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on December 25, 2012, 01:14:15 PM
Chaos in Motion is the most unnecessary album/video release in all of DT history.
Isn't that, like, mainstream opinion?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 25, 2012, 01:19:27 PM
Chaos in Motion is the most unnecessary album/video release in all of music history.

FFY. Yeah, that's a bit harsh but can't even believe DT agreed to present it. Man, there are bootlegs better than this DVD in every way.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 25, 2012, 02:27:53 PM
Oh, yeah, my controversial opinion is that OYALT is sung quite well, and that the vocal performance doesn't diminish the awesomeness of the record nor the amount of enjoyment on my part.
Here's an ultimate one: JLB on 5YIALT > JLB on Budokan.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 25, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
I've never really compared the two, but I may agree with this (not completely sure). There were 2004 shows where James sounded better than OIALT, that's sure.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 25, 2012, 04:08:22 PM
Here's a nice controversial opinion-- I don't give a flying kazoodle about live albums, and haven't bothered touching one of DT's live albums aside from Score, simply for the orchestra. I mean, concerts are great, and solos and whatnot can be a bit different sometimes, but live albums in general do nothing for me. Studio albums have the same materials in higher quality the exact way the artist meant for them to be. Come at me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on December 25, 2012, 04:11:38 PM
Well, this is more than a opinion but a personal choice, I guess.

Especially when you are metal/rock band with full instruments your place is the stage. That's where you can understand if they are worth enough to listen or not.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 25, 2012, 04:12:47 PM
Here's a nice controversial opinion-- I don't give a flying kazoodle about live albums, and haven't bothered touching one of DT's live albums aside from Score, simply for the orchestra. I mean, concerts are great, and solos and whatnot can be a bit different sometimes, but live albums in general do nothing for me. Studio albums have the same materials in higher quality the exact way the artist meant for them to be. Come at me.
You just have no idea what you're missing out on :'(
I bet you hear a lot of this so I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 25, 2012, 04:14:09 PM
Here's a nice controversial opinion-- I don't give a flying kazoodle about live albums, and haven't bothered touching one of DT's live albums aside from Score, simply for the orchestra. I mean, concerts are great, and solos and whatnot can be a bit different sometimes, but live albums in general do nothing for me. Studio albums have the same materials in higher quality the exact way the artist meant for them to be. Come at me.

As the proud possessor of more than 400 DT recordings, I second Milena but I will too shut up for the same reason. It's your opinion, after all. Respect.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 25, 2012, 04:22:33 PM
I think another reason why I don't care for live albums is that I don't like having the same songs on my iPhone twice :3 I know that's an incredibly stupid reason but it's a very strong feeling for me. I know that DT of all bands has some wonderful live shows, but live albums aren't for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on December 25, 2012, 04:27:37 PM
I really liked Live at the Marquee. The production is great, the setlist is, albeit small, great and enjoyable. Plus, you get "Bombay Vindaloo", which is a great jam track. James LaBrie as absolutely killer too (he had a cold, so there are some overdubs present, but still, it's awesome).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 25, 2012, 04:29:12 PM
I think Live Albums are best experienced if there's video footage to boot. There are certain versions of songs that I enjoy just listening to like Score's 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence, or When Dream And Day Reunite (as opposed to the original), but generally speaking, I won't listen to live songs unless I'm actually watching the concert on DVD/Blu-Ray.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 25, 2012, 04:32:43 PM
Yeah, if ever you change your mind, DT live albums are the place to go ;)

Hey, now that I'm thinking of it, it's not exactly controversial, but I see divided opinions on this: Speaking as a person that holds Space-Dye Vest in the deepest, most precious corner of her heart as a song that made sense of everything that hurt and that was confusing and still keeps making it - meaning, someone who thinks SDV is serious fucking business - Jordan didn't ruin it in Tarrytown. FAR from it. It was just how I imagined he would play it and I liked it, even though different solutions would be equally as good, or better (the original solution being, obviously, the best).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 25, 2012, 04:34:36 PM
I completely agree with you. I only wish he could have played it a little slower. It felt a tad rushed at times, especially during the first verses.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 25, 2012, 04:39:02 PM
Hey, now that I'm thinking of it, it's not exactly controversial, but I see divided opinions on this: Speaking as a person that holds Space-Dye Vest in the deepest, most precious corner of her heart as a song that made sense of everything that hurt and that was confusing and still keeps making it - meaning, someone who thinks SDV is serious fucking business - Jordan didn't ruin it in Tarrytown. FAR from it. It was just how I imagined he would play it and I liked it, even though different solutions would be equally as good, or better (the original solution being, obviously, the best).

I really wish that concert was recorded in good quality. Youtube videos taken by fans really don't do it justice.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 25, 2012, 07:27:42 PM
I really liked Live at the Marquee. The production is great, the setlist is, albeit small, great and enjoyable. Plus, you get "Bombay Vindaloo", which is a great jam track. James LaBrie as absolutely killer too (he had a cold, so there are some overdubs present, but still, it's awesome).

I thought LATM was entirely overdubbed? But the vocals are awesome anyway.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 26, 2012, 01:44:43 AM
I completely agree with you. I only wish he could have played it a little slower. It felt a tad rushed at times, especially during the first verses.
I am not usually bothered by playing a song faster or slower - in my head, it's always exactly the same song. But yes, it would have been better, because it would have been just far away enough from the original to keep it fresh and interesting.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 26, 2012, 02:16:40 AM
I know I've said this before, but I can't think of any DT song that sounds better live than on the album, except some WDADU songs with James singing (note: I love WDADU and I have no problem with Charlie's vocals on that album, but AFIL and TKH on Marquee and Afterlife on Score just gain more power with James' vocals).

And when it comes to the extended intros/solos/jams/whatever, they rarely impress me at all. Some of them can be cool (Another Hand, To Live Forever on Live in Tokyo), but none of them make the songs any better IMO. The worst offenders are Beyond This Life on Budokan (the instrumental section in the studio version is overkill already, but this takes it even further - ugh!), Surrounded on CIM (they managed to turn a beautiful song into a JP/JR wankfest - fortunately they played it in the original form for the upcoming live album) and Hollow Years on Budokan (that solo is SO overrated). I also find the extended intros to TSCO and Octavarium on Score and the beginning of the ToT portion in Schmedley Wilcox on CIM pretty boring. I mean, the intro to Octavarium is pretty long already, but Jordan manages to stretch it for a few minutes more - they could've found time for another song in the setlist had they not made TSCO and Octavarium so damn long!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 26, 2012, 02:20:43 AM
I strongly disagree! I can only find 2 or so live extension that weren't good for the song in the whole live catalogue. One of them is what they did to Metropolis in 2009/2010 and the other was the overlong outro of Solitary Shell in the same timeframe.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 26, 2012, 02:55:06 AM
Well, unfortunately most of these extensions don't add anything to the songs in my eyes. However, I did watch Metropolis from Luna Park before the videos got taken down and the the little jam before James starts singing the last part sounded pretty neat - can't wait to see that on the DVD! But usually I prefer to hear the songs the way they've been written, with some little changes that make them a bit different from the studio versions. Maybe my overall lack of interest in the jams is part of the reason why I like Kevin Moore so much - he is more of a songwriter than an instrumentalist. Hopefully I didn't start yet another keyboardist debate! :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 26, 2012, 03:04:36 AM
Eh, I don't think the jams are all good or bad. The Take The Time live outro slays whatever the form, Hollow Years with the extended intro and solo and TSM with the full band are pretty awesome as well. Beyond This Life at Budokan was cool--Jordan and Mike's duet thing was pretty great, in particular. And, of course, any of James' vocal alterations pre-accident are incredible. However, Another Hand and the Surrounded flurry of notes detracted from the songs, and the later '96- version of TKH had good stuff (JPs final solo) and bad stuff (Why is Carol of the Bells in there???). So overall, there are some gems and some clunkers. However, I like the concept in general--actually means there's a real chance the version could be superior to the original if the live addition is cool.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 26, 2012, 03:06:26 AM
There's a buttload of awesome extensions and jams that didn't make official DVDs but I do get what you're saying. It's just that, while Kev was around, they were mostly guitar jams, so it's better for us who love them to have keyboards in there as well, with Jordan and Derek :laugh:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 26, 2012, 03:21:25 AM
Indeed. ?, why don't you check this awesome video? I uploaded it a while ago to show the world what can happen when the band plays To Live Forever  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VddMqW-I44

As it was said, it's a shame that the 99% of great live extensions/improvisations never made DVDs or even audio official releases. There should be a dedicated compilation.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 26, 2012, 03:28:32 AM
That TLF jam had some nice moments, but it's way too long. Oh, and I forgot the "electric" version of TSM, that's pretty cool (although not better than the studio version) actually! :tup

Time for another controversial opinion related to the live releases: I think Score is overrated. James is fortunately in top form and he saves the release, but unfortunately the setlist isn't the best possible: there are gems like TROAE, Afterlife and UAGM and it's also cool to hear Another Won in a more polished form and with better vocals, Innocence Faded is nice as well.

But mostly the setlist isn't great: I Walk Beside You is an anticlimax after Root, Raise the Knife is the most overrated of DT's B-sides and the live version didn't change my opinion on it and the extended intro to Spirit isn't that great. The second set isn't much better: they wasted 40 minutes playing Six Degrees (some parts sound nice with the orchestra, but for example in The Test they aren't doing anything - The Glass Prison would've been a much more fitting song for an anniversary show like this, since it's a fan favorite and hadn't been released on any official DVD), TALW is a good choice to be played with an orchestra, but the song itself isn't something I would include in a 20th anniversary setlist, and as said, Octavarium has that overlong intro.

But fortunately James sounds great and the whole band seems to be enjoying the gig a lot - those two factors and some great songs in the setlist save Score from being a lackluster release and obviously it's much better than Chaos in Motion. However, I still think Live in Tokyo is the best DVD DT have put out - awesome setlist, the band plays excellently and while the off-stage footage breaks the flow a bit, it's entertaining to watch.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 26, 2012, 03:48:32 AM
Luckily for me, I dig all of SDOIT, and it has made Score really awesome for me; I also love concerts based on some sort of a concept so the "counting down" thing was even more awesome for me, especially since I didn't know the setlist before I watched it so it was a cool moment of revelation. I remember being slightly disappointed over the fact they chose to play UAGM, which I didn't like much at the time, but the DVD has improved my opinion of the song. JP's solo was as tight as on the original release and JLB beat his LIT performance of that song, easily.

LIT is an amazing DVD, I agree. I watched it so many times, I know it frame by frame. Doesn't hurt that it has Kevin playing ::) I do think it's a good thing he left DT, as I said previously in the thread, since I love everything he did after he left DT, but I would have loved to have seen him on the Awake tour. Imagine a DVD based around WDADU, IAW and Awake with Kevin in '94 or '95 :hefdaddy (provided he was still interested in playing, of course)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 26, 2012, 03:52:41 AM
Imagine a DVD based around WDADU, IAW and Awake with Kevin in '94 or '95 :hefdaddy

I would cry with joy.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 26, 2012, 03:55:42 AM
I do think it's a good thing he left DT, as I said previously in the thread, since I love everything he did after he left DT, but I would have loved to have seen him on the Awake tour. Imagine a DVD based around WDADU, IAW and Awake with Kevin in '94 or '95 :hefdaddy
If Kev had stuck around to tour with DT and they had filmed some show(s) in the Awake era, it would be their best live release for sure! :hefdaddy I like Awake in Japan, but it was filmed after James' vocal rupture, there are no WDADU songs (they had been playing TOWHTSTS without keyboards in '94) and of course Kevin isn't there (not to say that Derek is bad).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 26, 2012, 03:57:56 AM
I have to agree with regard of the Score setlist, even though I am not bothered at all by the long intros and the inclusion of The Answer Lies Within (it's a cool little song, from the album they were out promoting, worked great with the orchestra, so I'm ok with it making the cut). On the other side, I too think Raise The Knife is overrated (Speak To Me, that was played in the same tour, would have worked just as good and better!) and that the full SDOIT was detrimental to the economy of the show. But I can understand its inclusion. In 2006, SDOIT was still a hoge phenomenon in the DT land, and the suite had not been yet included in its entirety in an official Live Release. The idea of making it the centerpiece of the setlist was I think one of the greatest motives behind the necessity of a live testimnony of the Octavarium tour, besides the chronological imprint of the setlists. And yet, it always felt weak to me.

As for TLF, you are crazy :lol:

Luckily for me, I dig all of SDOIT, and it has made Score really awesome for me; I also love concerts based on some sort of a concept so the "counting down" thing was even more awesome for me, especially since I didn't know the setlist before I watched it so it was a cool moment of revelation. I remember being slightly disappointed over the fact they chose to play UAGM, which I didn't like much at the time, but the DVD has improved my opinion of the song. JP's solo was as tight as on the original release and JLB beat his LIT performance of that song, easily.

But... BEAR this honor in my NAAAAAAAAAAAME?  :( (the rest of the performance, especially instrumentally is of course superior in Score, though)

Quote
LIT is an amazing DVD, I agree. I watched it so many times, I know it frame by frame. Doesn't hurt that it has Kevin playing ::) I do think it's a good thing he left DT, as I said previously in the thread, since I love everything he did after he left DT, but I would have loved to have seen him on the Awake tour. Imagine a DVD based around WDADU, IAW and Awake with Kevin in '94 or '95 :hefdaddy

I just wish they had included the whole performance. I'm still puzzled by their decision to leave out the two best songs of the album. You make a DVD of Images And Words Live and you don't include Metropolis and Learning To Live?  :yeahright

The Awake tour setlist wasn't that great, in all fairness. The one in the latter part of the tour imporoved, though. Still, they sticked with a short set, that didn't do justice to any album other than Awake.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 26, 2012, 04:02:05 AM
But... BEAR this honor in my NAAAAAAAAAAAME?  :( (the rest of the performance, especially instrumentally is of course superior in Score, though)
That's the only part that's better :laugh:

If Kev had stuck around to tour with DT and they had filmed some show(s) in the Awake era, it would be their best live release for sure! :hefdaddy I like Awake in Japan, but it was filmed after James' vocal rupture, there are no WDADU songs (they had been playing TOWHTSTS without keyboards in '94) and of course Kevin isn't there (not to say that Derek is bad).
Not just after, but really closely after. I like watching it sometimes for the setlist but mostly it just makes me want to teleport on that stage with tea and hugs for James, the poor thing :sadpanda: and yeah, I love Derek too, and his interpretations of IAW/Awake were both interesting and good, but this premise is SO interesting to me.

Also, if DT doesn't play SDV on the next tour, I am going to be genuinely angry*. The time is so right, right now.

*for about five seconds. I am used to the world not giving me things I want :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 26, 2012, 04:10:26 AM
Piano > Continuum

Also, if DT doesn't play SDV on the next tour, I am going to be genuinely angry*. The time is so right, right now.

*for about five seconds. I am used to the world not giving me things I want :lol

I think that it was a good decision to not play it without Kevin. After all, it is pretty much just Kevin and Kevin (JLB) there. Guitar is basically playing power chords and drums enter very late in the song.

And I don't wanna hear Anna Lee with JR. It is a Derek song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 26, 2012, 04:12:22 AM
I too think Raise The Knife is overrated (Speak To Me, that was played in the same tour, would have worked just as good and better!) and that the full SDOIT was detrimental to the economy of the show. But I can understand its inclusion. In 2006, SDOIT was still a hoge phenomenon in the DT land, and the suite had not been yet included in its entirety in an official Live Release. The idea of making it the centerpiece of the setlist was I think one of the greatest motives behind the necessity of a live testimnony of the Octavarium tour, besides the chronological imprint of the setlists. And yet, it always felt weak to me.
Yes, Speak to Me is amazing! But obviously MP picked Raise the Knife because it had never been on a live release and Speak to Me was on 5YIALT already. Regarding Six Degrees: in terms of the representation of albums in the setlist, it was unfair to pick a 42-minute piece from Six Degrees and just a 3-minute song from TOT.
I just wish they had included the whole performance. I'm still puzzled by their decision to leave out the two best songs of the album. You make a DVD of Images And Words Live and you don't include Metropolis and Learning To Live?  :yeahright
Yeah, LIT would be even better if it included the full concert: Metropolis, Afterlife, Eve and LTL proshot from I&W era would be :drool: :hefdaddy
Also, if DT doesn't play SDV on the next tour, I am going to be genuinely angry*. The time is so right, right now.

*for about five seconds. I am used to the world not giving me things I want :lol
I find not playing SDV live both understandable and not understandable: of course it's KM's song, but DT have played loads of cover songs, even cover versions of full albums, yet they don't want to play one of their own songs that happens to be written by an ex-member? They played lots of songs mostly written by KevMo on the last tour already: 6:00, Surrounded and most notably Wait for Sleep. Lots of bands play songs that were 100% penned by an ex-member and some of them even have personal lyrics - why can't DT do that?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 26, 2012, 04:17:30 AM
I once again beg to disagree. As for the Piano/Continuum, it's all a matter of making sense. Either can be perfect or totally out of place. The continuum at the beginning of Octavarium is perfect, and so is the continuum solo at the end of Stargazer. A piano solo, though, is generally more interesting, layered and pleasant than a continuum solo like the one that ended up on CiM, but I'm not sure I would say the same if the latter had been something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrmp2EaVChI .

On the other side, I think that playing SDV and AL wouldn't be neither disrespectful towards their main inspirator nor out of place. Dream Theater is a band with a great present, but also a marvellous past. Why shouldn't it be celebrated? Playing Space Dye Vest live would be a great tribute to Kevin and to his unique contribution to the band.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 26, 2012, 04:22:06 AM
Hmm yes, I wouldn't like to hear a piano solo at the end of the TDEN  :lol. I just think that Rudess should use more piano.

But I'm not changing my mind with SDV. Unless Kevin comes and plays it onstage with DT. And I don't think it's going to happen.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 26, 2012, 04:38:54 AM
Time for another controversial opinion related to the live releases: I think Score is overrated. James is fortunately in top form and he saves the release, but unfortunately the setlist isn't the best possible: there are gems like TROAE, Afterlife and UAGM and it's also cool to hear Another Won in a more polished form and with better vocals, Innocence Faded is nice as well.

But mostly the setlist isn't great: I Walk Beside You is an anticlimax after Root, Raise the Knife is the most overrated of DT's B-sides and the live version didn't change my opinion on it and the extended intro to Spirit isn't that great. The second set isn't much better: they wasted 40 minutes playing Six Degrees (some parts sound nice with the orchestra, but for example in The Test they aren't doing anything - The Glass Prison would've been a much more fitting song for an anniversary show like this, since it's a fan favorite and hadn't been released on any official DVD), TALW is a good choice to be played with an orchestra, but the song itself isn't something I would include in a 20th anniversary setlist, and as said, Octavarium has that overlong intro.

But fortunately James sounds great and the whole band seems to be enjoying the gig a lot - those two factors and some great songs in the setlist save Score from being a lackluster release and obviously it's much better than Chaos in Motion. However, I still think Live in Tokyo is the best DVD DT have put out - awesome setlist, the band plays excellently and while the off-stage footage breaks the flow a bit, it's entertaining to watch.

I pretty much agree with all of this, except I still have Score slightly higher than Live in Tokyo for sound quality and simple length reasons. Also right with wasteland's train of thought on this matter.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 26, 2012, 05:13:19 AM
... it's all a matter of making sense.
I think these should go down as JLB's most quotable words ever ;D

I find not playing SDV live both understandable and not understandable: of course it's KM's song, but DT have played loads of cover songs, even cover versions of full albums, yet they don't want to play one of their own songs that happens to be written by an ex-member? They played lots of songs mostly written by KevMo on the last tour already: 6:00, Surrounded and most notably Wait for Sleep. Lots of bands play songs that were 100% penned by an ex-member and some of them even have personal lyrics - why can't DT do that?
I find it understandable in the MP era, since he didn't want to play it. Now, I think it would be excellent of them if they played it, because there is no harm whatsoever. I really cannot conceive why would that be disrespectful to Kevin. He has moved on from DT in the true sense of that word, so playing the only song off the official albums that didn't get the live, full-band treatment would not be logical, but also welcomed by a lot of us who are fans of that song, or who are not fans of silly arbitrary conventions about which songs are "off limits". There shouldn't be anything off limits. Just like you said, Wait For Sleep is just as much as Kevin's baby as SDV. SDV only received special treatment because someone decided it should have special treatment.

Now if Kevin said "never play this song without me", I would have understood. But from all I've read, it seems that is not the case, not to mention the fact he has rejected to get out on stage with DT to play it. Furthermore, he doesn't appear to be sensitive about the song in any shape or form - he doesn't mind drawing comparisons from that to other songs of his, or discussing the subject matter, and he has said that he is fine with DT putting it on Awake because it gave DT fans a hint of where will he go musically afterwards.

@Ruba - Anna Lee has JLB's lyrics so I wouldn't call it 100% Derek's song :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 26, 2012, 05:38:47 AM
@Ruba - Anna Lee has JLB's lyrics so I wouldn't call it 100% Derek's song :)

JP also explictly said on the 5YIALT commentary the music isn't all Derek's either. In fact, MP said "the music was mostly Derek" and JP went out of his way to correct him.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 26, 2012, 05:47:56 AM
That song has the second most awkward line in the commentary for me, when JLB says he loves the song and that they should bring it back, and then MP shoots it down as being a Derek song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 26, 2012, 05:50:07 AM
That song has the second most awkward line in the commentary for me, when JLB says he loves the song and that they should bring it back, and then MP shoots it down as being a Derek song.

The most awkward being? The dynamics of that bit remind me of the way the conversation developed when JM mentioned their old writing method/routine.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 26, 2012, 06:13:32 AM
That song has the second most awkward line in the commentary for me, when JLB says he loves the song and that they should bring it back, and then MP shoots it down as being a Derek song.

The most awkward being? The dynamics of that bit remind me of the way the conversation developed when JM mentioned their old writing method/routine.

At least with the Anna Lee bit MP conceded "maybe."
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 26, 2012, 06:32:29 AM
I find it understandable in the MP era, since he didn't want to play it. Now, I think it would be excellent of them if they played it, because there is no harm whatsoever. I really cannot conceive why would that be disrespectful to Kevin. He has moved on from DT in the true sense of that word, so playing the only song off the official albums that didn't get the live, full-band treatment would not be logical, but also welcomed by a lot of us who are fans of that song, or who are not fans of silly arbitrary conventions about which songs are "off limits". There shouldn't be anything off limits. Just like you said, Wait For Sleep is just as much as Kevin's baby as SDV. SDV only received special treatment because someone decided it should have special treatment.

Now if Kevin said "never play this song without me", I would have understood. But from all I've read, it seems that is not the case, not to mention the fact he has rejected to get out on stage with DT to play it. Furthermore, he doesn't appear to be sensitive about the song in any shape or form - he doesn't mind drawing comparisons from that to other songs of his, or discussing the subject matter, and he has said that he is fine with DT putting it on Awake because it gave DT fans a hint of where will he go musically afterwards.
Agreed completely. By now it's become perfectly clear that Kevin will never appear on the same stage with Dream Theater again, so if they want to play it at some point, now would be the right time. And if JP and JM don't like the song enough, JLB and JR could perform it as a duo version like they did at that solo show of Jordan's. It would be a nice little breather, especially if they returned to the "evening with" format.

EDIT: To be honest, I think the Budokan setlist could've been better too: so many songs from TOT but nothing from Awake? They also could've played some of the better songs from Six Degrees and skipped the terrible New Millennium.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 26, 2012, 08:59:49 AM
@Ruba - Anna Lee has JLB's lyrics so I wouldn't call it 100% Derek's song :)

Ahh yeah, that's how it is. I just remember reading from somewhere that somebody claimed it to be Derek song and thus it will not be played live.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: emtee on December 26, 2012, 09:24:58 AM
Yeah the intro to 8V (song) on Score was too long and whenever I watch it on DVD or hear it I think to myself it's what
caused the band to pay a fine for running long that night. On such an already long song it just seemed unnecessary.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 26, 2012, 11:07:45 AM
@Ruba - Anna Lee has JLB's lyrics so I wouldn't call it 100% Derek's song :)

JP also explictly said on the 5YIALT commentary the music isn't all Derek's either. In fact, MP said "the music was mostly Derek" and JP went out of his way to correct him.

I noticed that too.  It made me question a lot of Mike's versions of events
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 26, 2012, 03:32:31 PM
EDIT: To be honest, I think the Budokan setlist could've been better too: so many songs from TOT but nothing from Awake? They also could've played some of the better songs from Six Degrees and skipped the terrible New Millennium.
Ummm, if you have any time available at some point in the future, check out the tourography on MP's site for some setlists from the same tour - A LOT of them are vaaaaastly superior to Budokan. Or ask Marco, since he loves to talk about it :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on December 26, 2012, 03:36:32 PM
Case in point: DT @Madison Square Garden, 04/04/03.

Quote
1. As I Am
2. This Dying Soul
3. Beyond This Life
4. Hollow Years
5. The Great Debate
6. Endless Sacrifice
7. Another Day
8. Trial of Tears
---Intermission---
9. A Change of Seasons
10. Caught in a Web
11. Honor Thy Father
12. Vacant
13. Stream of Consciousness
14. Disappear
---Encore---
15. Pull Me Under
16. In the Name of God
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 26, 2012, 04:04:02 PM
EDIT: To be honest, I think the Budokan setlist could've been better too: so many songs from TOT but nothing from Awake? They also could've played some of the better songs from Six Degrees and skipped the terrible New Millennium.
Ummm, if you have any time available at some point in the future, check out the tourography on MP's site for some setlists from the same tour - A LOT of them are vaaaaastly superior to Budokan. Or ask Marco, since he loves to talk about it :biggrin:

You are dead, lady  :rollin


How about:
Quote
   Cleveland, 20.03.2004

band history video (intro tape)
1.  As I Am
2.  This Dying Soul
3.  The Mirror/The Mirror (reprise)
4.  short piano set-up
5.  Through My Words
6.  Fatal Tragedy
7.  Hollow Years (w/ extended guitar solo)
8.  War Inside My Head
9.  The Test That Stumped Them All
10.  A Fortune in Lies
11.  Endless Sacrifice
12.  Finally Free
~~~intermission~~~
13.  Metropolis part 1
14.  Honor Thy Father
15.  keyboard solo
A Mind Beside Itself:
16.  I Erotomania
17.  II Voices (abridged)
18.  III The Silent Man (electric version)
19.  In the Name of God
~~~encore~~~
Dead Poets Society (intro tape)
A Change of Seasons:
20.  I The Crimson Sunrise
21.  II Innocence
22.  III Carpe Diem
23.  IV The Darkest of Winters
24.  V Another World
25.  VI The Inevitable Summer
26.  VII The Crimson Sunset
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 26, 2012, 10:01:38 PM
How about:
Quote
   Cleveland, 20.03.2004

band history video (intro tape)
1.  As I Am
2.  This Dying Soul
3.  The Mirror/The Mirror (reprise)
4.  short piano set-up
5.  Through My Words
6.  Fatal Tragedy
7.  Hollow Years (w/ extended guitar solo)
8.  War Inside My Head
9.  The Test That Stumped Them All
10.  A Fortune in Lies
11.  Endless Sacrifice
12.  Finally Free
~~~intermission~~~
13.  Metropolis part 1
14.  Honor Thy Father
15.  keyboard solo
A Mind Beside Itself:
16.  I Erotomania
17.  II Voices (abridged)
18.  III The Silent Man (electric version)
19.  In the Name of God
~~~encore~~~
Dead Poets Society (intro tape)
A Change of Seasons:
20.  I The Crimson Sunrise
21.  II Innocence
22.  III Carpe Diem
23.  IV The Darkest of Winters
24.  V Another World
25.  VI The Inevitable Summer
26.  VII The Crimson Sunset

Now THAT's a setlist I'd love to see on a DVD. Maybe swap out some of the TOT material, but that's about all that separates this from perfection in a pre-8V setlist.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 27, 2012, 01:08:44 AM
Ummm, if you have any time available at some point in the future, check out the tourography on MP's site for some setlists from the same tour - A LOT of them are vaaaaastly superior to Budokan. Or ask Marco, since he loves to talk about it :biggrin:
Yeah, I have seen many of the setlists from that era and that's exactly why I complained about the selection of songs on Budokan - why include stuff like New Millennium, TTTSTA or Goodnight Kiss when you can throw in The Glass Prison, The Great Debate or Caught in a Web?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 27, 2012, 01:22:29 AM
Ummm, if you have any time available at some point in the future, check out the tourography on MP's site for some setlists from the same tour - A LOT of them are vaaaaastly superior to Budokan. Or ask Marco, since he loves to talk about it :biggrin:
Yeah, I have seen many of the setlists from that era and that's exactly why I complained about the selection of songs on Budokan - why include stuff like New Millennium, TTTSTA or Goodnight Kiss when you can throw in The Glass Prison, A Mind Beside Itself or A Change Of Seasons?

FTFY  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2012, 01:29:02 AM
Ummm, if you have any time available at some point in the future, check out the tourography on MP's site for some setlists from the same tour - A LOT of them are vaaaaastly superior to Budokan. Or ask Marco, since he loves to talk about it :biggrin:
Yeah, I have seen many of the setlists from that era and that's exactly why I complained about the selection of songs on Budokan - why include stuff like New Millennium, TTTSTA or Goodnight Kiss when you can throw in The Glass Prison, A Mind Beside Itself or A Change Of Seasons?

FTFY  :tup

They already had those on the previous live album. That would have been silly, especially with how much time they'd eat out of the set time that would be taken away from other songs.
TGP really should have been on there, going into TDS.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 02:02:24 AM
The other thing about wishing for a different Budokan setlist that makes it kind of a weird exercise is that even if they made a "dream setlist," LaBrie being in suboptimal condition would make the renditions likely not as good as the studio versions (for vocally difficult songs, at least). It's a lot easier to play the "what-if" game, at least for me, with Score and Tokyo, because you know he'd be on fire for whatever was thrown into either.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 27, 2012, 02:59:03 AM
The other thing about wishing for a different Budokan setlist that makes it kind of a weird exercise is that even if they made a "dream setlist," LaBrie being in suboptimal condition would make the renditions likely not as good as the studio versions (for vocally difficult songs, at least). It's a lot easier to play the "what-if" game, at least for me, with Score and Tokyo, because you know he'd be on fire for whatever was thrown into either.
Except that, on that tour, Budokan was one of the nights where he was more tired than usual. He talked about how frustrated he was over the fact he had more or less an off-night on the most important show of the tour, but there was nothing they could do:

Quote
"James:And you were talking about Live at Budokan. Well, unfortunately I would have loved to have gone in and re-sang that whole fuckin’ thing, cause that was one of my worst nights on that whole tour, and it was like, “What do I do? Do I cheat? Do I go into the studio and re-do it? Do I just leave what it is and that’s it?”

Jaime:   That’s the essence, though.

James:    Yeah, I mean, it was really unfortunate, because, usually when a band does something like that, a three-hour show, you usually have a day off before. We were jamming the night before-We did the three-hour show the night before. It was just trying to fit things in. And to a vocalist, it’s just completely unfair. But anyways, whatever…
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 27, 2012, 03:05:43 AM
What James said is actually not completely accurate. Unless I am misunderstanding him and they reharsed the whole budokan show the night before the actual gig, they had no show the 25th of April (budokan being recorded the 26th).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 27, 2012, 03:14:56 AM
What James said is actually not completely accurate. Unless I am misunderstanding him and they reharsed the whole budokan show the night before the actual gig, they had no show the 25th of April (budokan being recorded the 26th).
I think this means they had a full show 24th and rehearsal 25th but my reading comprehension sucks balls :D
Edit: yup, they did have one on the 24th so that miiight be it. And a couple before. And on this one they played a set with ACOS and the entire Number Of The Beast. Ouch. Yeah I can see how that happened to him :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 27, 2012, 03:19:41 AM
Yes, they had a show the 24th! And not a light one as they played Number Of The Beast, A Mind Beside Itself and ACOS. And that was the last of a string of three shows in a row.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 27, 2012, 03:21:38 AM
Some poor planning, huh? But they had no other choice I guess.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 27, 2012, 03:26:07 AM
I guess so. Still playing a whole album meant for another singer and challanging on its own the show before a DVD recording was not the wisest choice. It's a shame that budokan went out like that, as there were some performances from that tour that can even be ranked on par with.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 27, 2012, 03:28:03 AM
why include stuff like New Millennium, TTTSTA or Goodnight Kiss when you can throw in The Glass Prison, A Mind Beside Itself or A Change Of Seasons?

FTFY  :tup

They already had those on the previous live album. That would have been silly, especially with how much time they'd eat out of the set time that would be taken away from other songs.
TGP really should have been on there, going into TDS.
Totally agreed - MP was pretty strict about not repeating songs on subsequent live albums, so it wouldn't have happened anyway. And as said, James wasn't in the best condition during that show, so those versions would've been clearly inferior to the LSFNY ones (not that the LSFNY versions are perfect, either). I also agree that they should've played TGP and TDS back to back - I'm not a huge fan of the latter, but it would've been a great opportunity to play the first 2 parts of the 12-step suite in the same setlist.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 27, 2012, 03:35:09 AM
They had the chance to do it twice, as the TGP>TDS segue was played in both the ToT and the Octavarium tour. It's clear, and comprehensible, that MP was hesitating of including 25 minutes of music that he envisioned as a work in progress that should have been properly and officially showcased only upon completion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 05:40:59 AM
The other thing about wishing for a different Budokan setlist that makes it kind of a weird exercise is that even if they made a "dream setlist," LaBrie being in suboptimal condition would make the renditions likely not as good as the studio versions (for vocally difficult songs, at least). It's a lot easier to play the "what-if" game, at least for me, with Score and Tokyo, because you know he'd be on fire for whatever was thrown into either.
Except that, on that tour, Budokan was one of the nights where he was more tired than usual. He talked about how frustrated he was over the fact he had more or less an off-night on the most important show of the tour, but there was nothing they could do:

Quote
"James:And you were talking about Live at Budokan. Well, unfortunately I would have loved to have gone in and re-sang that whole fuckin’ thing, cause that was one of my worst nights on that whole tour, and it was like, “What do I do? Do I cheat? Do I go into the studio and re-do it? Do I just leave what it is and that’s it?”

Jaime:   That’s the essence, though.

James:    Yeah, I mean, it was really unfortunate, because, usually when a band does something like that, a three-hour show, you usually have a day off before. We were jamming the night before-We did the three-hour show the night before. It was just trying to fit things in. And to a vocalist, it’s just completely unfair. But anyways, whatever…

Yeah, I've seen that interview and it's really interesting. Didn't mean to come off like I was bashing James or something--I've seen plenty of footage from that era where he sounds great. I just meant that, regardless of how legitimate the reasons may be, the fact is that he wasn't in good form that night, and thus having great songs included wouldn't necessarily have meant the DVD would be their best or anything. To me, the only really worthwhile Budokan tracks are the ones where they changed something--Hollow Years, Beyond This Life, and ITNOG--the rest just don't outdo the studio versions because the studio versions have better vocals and at-least-as-good musicianship. So they could have thrown LTL, AMBI, ACOS, whatever in there, and it probably still wouldn't have ultimately been a great release despite the great setlist choices.

In the same sense, WDADRU is a great concept that I'm very glad they tried, but he didn't happen to have a good night there either. Again, there's a legitimate reason for that too--it was the second set of a show, so his voice was already somewhat spent, and I'm sure it was right in the middle of a tough schedule (not sure on specifics). But the fact that you can explain James' performance away and that it's no fault of his own doesn't actually make the show better.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 27, 2012, 06:29:13 AM
But the fact that you can explain James' performance away and that it's no fault of his own doesn't actually make the show better.
Yeah, I hear you! I didn't want to say that the better solution would have been to replace Budokan's setlist with some better setlist under the same circumstances, but avoiding those circumstances all together. Luckily, for Score (and for the new DVD!) the situation improved :tup and for Budokan, it is what it is. Not a lot of people even mind James' vocs on that show, otherwise it wouldn't have been heralded as a monster show, as I often hear people call it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2012, 06:43:25 AM
JLB has some great vocal moments on Budokan. Hollow Years is perfect, New Millennium rocks vocally, and his vocals in Trial of Tears give me chills. The only songs that I think are really weak vocally are PMU and ITNOG, which are right at the end of the set when he's clearly tired, and they're both a bit higher songs.
Overall though, I think his vocals are pretty good, and an improvement over LSFNY (slightly imo) and OIALT (hugely).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 10:16:06 AM
JLB has some great vocal moments on Budokan. Hollow Years is perfect, New Millennium rocks vocally, and his vocals in Trial of Tears give me chills. The only songs that I think are really weak vocally are PMU and ITNOG, which are right at the end of the set when he's clearly tired, and they're both a bit higher songs.
Overall though, I think his vocals are pretty good, and an improvement over LSFNY (slightly imo) and OIALT (hugely).

I found a lot of the TOT stuff and Beyond This Life pretty lacking, though I do agree HY, NM, and ToT were well-executed. I prefer LSFNY vocally though. The Livetime stuff (I usually go for the DVD and not the CD) was as problematic as Budokan, but in a different way--by the time Budokan came around, he had learned how to avoid big voicecracks and screwups, but the years had worn away some of his clarity in the upper registers. LSFNY is kind of in between, where you get a bit of both issues but neither is really present enough to detract from the show. At least, that's my opinion--I'm well aware that this sort of thing can easily be judged through infinite equally valid lenses.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2012, 10:28:10 AM
JLB has some great vocal moments on Budokan. Hollow Years is perfect, New Millennium rocks vocally, and his vocals in Trial of Tears give me chills. The only songs that I think are really weak vocally are PMU and ITNOG, which are right at the end of the set when he's clearly tired, and they're both a bit higher songs.
Overall though, I think his vocals are pretty good, and an improvement over LSFNY (slightly imo) and OIALT (hugely).

I found a lot of the TOT stuff and Beyond This Life pretty lacking, though I do agree HY, NM, and ToT were well-executed. I prefer LSFNY vocally though. The Livetime stuff (I usually go for the DVD and not the CD) was as problematic as Budokan, but in a different way--by the time Budokan came around, he had learned how to avoid big voicecracks and screwups, but the years had worn away some of his clarity in the upper registers. LSFNY is kind of in between, where you get a bit of both issues but neither is really present enough to detract from the show. At least, that's my opinion--I'm well aware that this sort of thing can easily be judged through infinite equally valid lenses.

I think that's a fairly good summary, although I found him to be slightly more pitchy and uncontrolled on LSFNY overall, especially in the upper register. I think after changing vocal coach, he dialed back on the big screams and has sung the upper register with a cleaner, more controlled technique. And I think the really long set of LSFNY is also a factor.
Keep in mind, I said I find Budokan *slightly* better, so I'm kinda splitting hairs here. Both shows had their fair share of strengths and weaknesses vocally, and the wear on JLB's voice is showing by the end of both shows. I just think he's a bit more "on" for Budokan. And I know many people prefer LSFNY, which is also fine.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 10:31:23 AM
JLB has some great vocal moments on Budokan. Hollow Years is perfect, New Millennium rocks vocally, and his vocals in Trial of Tears give me chills. The only songs that I think are really weak vocally are PMU and ITNOG, which are right at the end of the set when he's clearly tired, and they're both a bit higher songs.
Overall though, I think his vocals are pretty good, and an improvement over LSFNY (slightly imo) and OIALT (hugely).

I found a lot of the TOT stuff and Beyond This Life pretty lacking, though I do agree HY, NM, and ToT were well-executed. I prefer LSFNY vocally though. The Livetime stuff (I usually go for the DVD and not the CD) was as problematic as Budokan, but in a different way--by the time Budokan came around, he had learned how to avoid big voicecracks and screwups, but the years had worn away some of his clarity in the upper registers. LSFNY is kind of in between, where you get a bit of both issues but neither is really present enough to detract from the show. At least, that's my opinion--I'm well aware that this sort of thing can easily be judged through infinite equally valid lenses.

I think that's a fairly good summary, although I found him to be slightly more pitchy and uncontrolled on LSFNY overall, especially in the upper register. I think after changing vocal coach, he dialed back on the big screams and has sung the upper register with a cleaner, more controlled technique. And I think the really long set of LSFNY is also a factor.
Keep in mind, I said I find Budokan *slightly* better, so I'm kinda splitting hairs here. Both shows had their fair share of strengths and weaknesses vocally, and the wear on JLB's voice is showing by the end of both shows. I just think he's a bit more "on" for Budokan. And I know many people prefer LSFNY, which is also fine.

Yeah, that's totally fair. Incidentally, you mention him dialing back the big screams around that time (a very true observation), which makes me wonder: what made him bring them back in such full force on the ADTOE tour? Did he just suddenly decide to go back to them after eschewing them for over a decade, or was it some sort of MP-not-wanting-them thing that then got lifted? I've been wondering about this a lot, because I LOVE that he's gone back to that, but I've never really heard any explanation or even speculation as to why.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2012, 10:37:26 AM
He didn't just suddenly bring them back this tour though. He's started using them more gradually over the last few tours, from about the Octavarium tour onwards. I think he's probably just gotten better with his vocal technique and training to the point where he can start using them without straining his voice too much.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 27, 2012, 10:43:06 AM
Yeah, that's totally fair. Incidentally, you mention him dialing back the big screams around that time (a very true observation), which makes me wonder: what made him bring them back in such full force on the ADTOE tour? Did he just suddenly decide to go back to them after eschewing them for over a decade, or was it some sort of MP-not-wanting-them thing that then got lifted? I've been wondering about this a lot, because I LOVE that he's gone back to that, but I've never really heard any explanation or even speculation as to why.

I can't say that the thought never crossed my mind, but in all fairness, it's not very likely. On the other hand, I think that was a concequence of the split in the way that James too, as with all the other band members, decided to step up to fill the hole left, and more or less intentionally he did such on stage as well as in all the other matters. Or maybe he just felt a greater degree of freedom to tune his live performances by himself, just like he was allowed to do with his studio vocals, which he recorded in Canada on his own, with just a few imputs by the producer.

He didn't just suddenly bring them back this tour though. He's started using them more gradually over the last few tours, from about the Octavarium tour onwards. I think he's probably just gotten better with his vocal technique and training to the point where he can start using them without straining his voice too much.

True, but the increase was to steep and cospicuous to be casual. In the whole BCSL tour, that I once scanned for impromptu high notes, I could find the totality of ONE high scream (the last line of As I Am), and yet most of his performances were quite strong (albeit not as strong as the best legs of ADTOE). On the Octavarium tour there was some cute screaming (not as raspy and aggressive as in 2012) yes, but in the CiM tour the high notes were more sporadic, and some of them (LITS) were quite cringeworthy :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 10:46:09 AM
Yeah, I overstated--he did use them before, and often to great effect (the 8V ending, Cemetery Gates and Highway Star covers, and LITS, to name a few spots), but there seemed to be a dramatic (no pun intended) uptick this last tour. Suddenly the guy was taking UAGM's vocals up in the chorus and inserting screams into songs like TGD, ES, and PS. Just struck me as a really significant change after several years of very sporadic usage.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 27, 2012, 10:49:13 AM
Yeah, I overstated--he did use them before, and often to great effect (the 8V ending, Cemetery Gates and Highway Star covers, and LITS, to name a few spots), but there seemed to be a dramatic (no pun intended) uptick this last tour. Suddenly the guy was taking UAGM's vocals up in the chorus and inserting screams into songs like TGD, ES, and PS. Just struck me as a really significant change after several years of very sporadic usage.

Those you listed were the first screams of this tour. The best (and wildest) were introduced later: 6:00, TDEN, Surrounded, PMU, AIA, BMUBMD and so on.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 27, 2012, 10:53:39 AM
Yeah, I overstated--he did use them before, and often to great effect (the 8V ending, Cemetery Gates and Highway Star covers, and LITS, to name a few spots), but there seemed to be a dramatic (no pun intended) uptick this last tour. Suddenly the guy was taking UAGM's vocals up in the chorus and inserting screams into songs like TGD, ES, and PS. Just struck me as a really significant change after several years of very sporadic usage.

I disagree. I remember quite a few high screams from previous tours, and I don't think it's been a huge change.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 10:56:10 AM
Yeah, I overstated--he did use them before, and often to great effect (the 8V ending, Cemetery Gates and Highway Star covers, and LITS, to name a few spots), but there seemed to be a dramatic (no pun intended) uptick this last tour. Suddenly the guy was taking UAGM's vocals up in the chorus and inserting screams into songs like TGD, ES, and PS. Just struck me as a really significant change after several years of very sporadic usage.

Those you listed were the first screams of this tour. The best (and wildest) were introduced later: 6:00, TDEN, Surrounded, PMU, AIA, BMUBMD and so on.

The man sure has rekindled his relationship with G#5s, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 27, 2012, 11:34:34 AM
Most of James's screams on the ADTOE tour are less controlled than before.  Sometimes when someone loses ability due to age, they find other things they can do with their voice.  I don't think James can still hit the high notes as consistently and with as much quality as even just 5 or 6 years ago.  What he does now is more raspy and aggressive, mainly due to limitations. 

I'm not saying that to criticize, as he has sounded amazing on the last few tours, but I think it is just a consequence of getting older.

Ronnie James Dio found some ungodly high pitch screams in his 60s (!!!) that he never used before.  That was because the high end of his voice was suffering.  He still sounded great though but he had to alter his style towards the end.  For an example check out the beginning of Mob Rules from a tour from the 80s or 90s where he says "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh come onnnnn!" and compare it with the Radio City Music Hall show from 2007.  In that show he screams "Come onnnnn" in an aggressive falsetto more out of limitation of his vocal range at the age of 65 than anything else.  Still kind of a cool thing to experiment with and he still sounded great regardless. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 27, 2012, 11:38:30 AM
Most of James's screams on the ADTOE tour are less controlled than before.  Sometimes when someone loses ability due to age, they find other things they can do with their voice.  I don't think James can still hit the high notes as consistently and with as much quality as even just 5 or 6 years ago.  What he does now is more raspy and aggressive, mainly due to limitations. 

I disagree. I mean, they are raspy and aggressive, but they seem very much in control to me, at least as far as pitch goes. Obviously, he can't hit the clean, soaring notes like back in the early 90's, but hell, he's been having trouble with that ever since his voice incident. The quality of his high screams might be different now, but it seems very much in control to me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 11:55:30 AM
James' screams always sounded kind of raspy to me, even back in his heyday. Now, they are a bit raspier and slightly diminished now, but there's still plenty of power there, power that a lot of (rightfully) well-regarded singers would still kill for. But part of the appeal with the screams, at least to me, is that they aren't just these big clear notes--they're really high, but they have balls. And they just explode over the top of the song as a result, in a fashion I haven't heard many singers successfully emulate (whereas a ton of singers, and just about anyone really, can do the big clean notes with some practice).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 27, 2012, 12:11:58 PM
Most of James's screams on the ADTOE tour are less controlled than before.  Sometimes when someone loses ability due to age, they find other things they can do with their voice.  I don't think James can still hit the high notes as consistently and with as much quality as even just 5 or 6 years ago.  What he does now is more raspy and aggressive, mainly due to limitations. 

I disagree. I mean, they are raspy and aggressive, but they seem very much in control to me, at least as far as pitch goes. Obviously, he can't hit the clean, soaring notes like back in the early 90's, but hell, he's been having trouble with that ever since his voice incident. The quality of his high screams might be different now, but it seems very much in control to me.

I don't necessarily disagree with you.  I think I could have worded it better.  Not being a trained vocalist I am trying to figure out how to convey what I mean. 

For instance, in Under a Glass Moon when he says "Praying for TIME to disappear", nowadays the word "time" is not controlled in the sense that he can control the exact note to hit.  On the ADTOE tour he essentially just screamed the word "time" and it sounded great, don't get me wrong, but sometimes when you scream a word like that instead of sing it, it will sound a million times better than if you were to sing it and hit the wrong note.  There are other examples that I can't think of right now, but I think the screaming that he does sounds awesome but I consider that less controlled as far as pitch and intonation is concerned.  I don't mind it one bit but i think it is an ever so small example of how his age is catching up with him.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 27, 2012, 12:26:22 PM
Most of James's screams on the ADTOE tour are less controlled than before.  Sometimes when someone loses ability due to age, they find other things they can do with their voice.  I don't think James can still hit the high notes as consistently and with as much quality as even just 5 or 6 years ago.  What he does now is more raspy and aggressive, mainly due to limitations. 

I disagree. I mean, they are raspy and aggressive, but they seem very much in control to me, at least as far as pitch goes. Obviously, he can't hit the clean, soaring notes like back in the early 90's, but hell, he's been having trouble with that ever since his voice incident. The quality of his high screams might be different now, but it seems very much in control to me.

I don't necessarily disagree with you.  I think I could have worded it better.  Not being a trained vocalist I am trying to figure out how to convey what I mean. 

For instance, in Under a Glass Moon when he says "Praying for TIME to disappear", nowadays the word "time" is not controlled in the sense that he can control the exact note to hit.  On the ADTOE tour he essentially just screamed the word "time" and it sounded great, don't get me wrong, but sometimes when you scream a word like that instead of sing it, it will sound a million times better than if you were to sing it and hit the wrong note.  There are other examples that I can't think of right now, but I think the screaming that he does sounds awesome but I consider that less controlled as far as pitch and intonation is concerned.  I don't mind it one bit but i think it is an ever so small example of how his age is catching up with him.

If I recall correctly, all the "TIME" notes are G#5s, though I wouldn't be surprised if he was off by half a step here or there with some of the performances. I think some of the effect you mention has to do with the fact that a lot of the notes he's screaming now are G#s, As, and even Bbs, whereas back in '93 he was doing a lot of Fs, F#s, and Gs (general statements; obviously there are exceptions). So he's actually doing higher ones nowadays, which is, of course, going to make the note a bit more strained as he approaches his limit (which is probably something like a B or C at this point) compared to the ones from like '93. Listen to how he sounds doing, say, the LTL F# now--it retains a lot more openness than those "TIME" screams (at least on James' good days!).

I think age does play some effect, but I don't think James' peak vocal power in that range has really diminished much...which is really quite shocking, given all he's been through. You don't see a lot of singers his age still able to replicate those sorts of late-80s/early-90s exploits so faithfully.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 27, 2012, 12:42:11 PM
I think age does play some effect, but I don't think James' peak vocal power in that range has really diminished much...which is really quite shocking, given all he's been through. You don't see a lot of singers his age still able to replicate those sorts of late-80s/early-90s exploits so faithfully.
This was a great discussion (this thread has really went beyond my expectations) and I think this paragraph summarizes it :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 27, 2012, 12:58:14 PM
I think age does play some effect, but I don't think James' peak vocal power in that range has really diminished much...which is really quite shocking, given all he's been through. You don't see a lot of singers his age still able to replicate those sorts of late-80s/early-90s exploits so faithfully.

Yeah, but James actually took the time and effort to take care of his voice, studying with Jamie Vendera and all. And Vendera is like a freaking authority on vocal care, so I'm sure he helped James with placement and daily maintenance and other things, so that whatever James may be doing with his voice right now, doesn't actually hurt or deteriorate his vocal cords.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on December 27, 2012, 02:36:42 PM
I think James is incredible. I saw DT three times on the Dramatic Tour of Events, and every show, he was better than the last one I saw. Sometimes he'll sing a line though and it just turns into a big flurry of vowels, but you have to remember that singing is the most tiring instrument. People think the drums are, but it's actually singing. You're using all of your muscles to sing, and you're not breathing normally. James is a fucking pro.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 27, 2012, 05:23:15 PM
I think James is incredible. I saw DT three times on the Dramatic Tour of Events, and every show, he was better than the last one I saw. Sometimes he'll sing a line though and it just turns into a big flurry of vowels, but you have to remember that singing is the most tiring instrument. People think the drums are, but it's actually singing. You're using all of your muscles to sing, and you're not breathing normally. James is a fucking pro.

Not only that, but wood, metal, and whatever else modern instruments are made of is all quality check tested and resilient enough to withstand the kinds of punishments it gets. You can't just get "better vocal cords" so all you have to work with is what God gave you and what you've developed. So that makes it that much more difficult, because not everyone can handle the same kind of punishment, or the kind of discipline it takes to maintain their voice. I mean, if a guitar or a drum breaks down, you can always get another. But if a voice breaks down, that's it, so it's that much more crucial to take care of it, and yeah, any vocalist who can manage to do that for as long as James has deserves a damn trophy.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 27, 2012, 10:33:04 PM
I think James is incredible. I saw DT three times on the Dramatic Tour of Events, and every show, he was better than the last one I saw. Sometimes he'll sing a line though and it just turns into a big flurry of vowels, but you have to remember that singing is the most tiring instrument. People think the drums are, but it's actually singing. You're using all of your muscles to sing, and you're not breathing normally. James is a fucking pro.

Not only that, but wood, metal, and whatever else modern instruments are made of is all quality check tested and resilient enough to withstand the kinds of punishments it gets. You can't just get "better vocal cords" so all you have to work with is what God gave you and what you've developed. So that makes it that much more difficult, because not everyone can handle the same kind of punishment, or the kind of discipline it takes to maintain their voice. I mean, if a guitar or a drum breaks down, you can always get another. But if a voice breaks down, that's it, so it's that much more crucial to take care of it, and yeah, any vocalist who can manage to do that for as long as James has deserves a damn trophy.

Totally agree.  His range is amazing especially given what he has been through.  It's also quite odd that someone that can hit those high notes has such a warmth to his voice.  Some singers that sing that high have a more thin sounding voice.  Not James, which is why he is so perfect in DT
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 28, 2012, 01:37:02 AM
I like how this thread has derailed completely! :lol

But yeah, it's amazing how great James still sounds after all he's been through.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 28, 2012, 01:41:30 AM
I like how this thread has derailed completely! :lol

Still, this probably the best proper discussion thread we've had in the DT side in a few months!

Quote
But yeah, it's amazing how great James still sounds after all he's been through.

And yeah, the 2012 James is probably his best and most consistent incarnation since 1992-1993  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: slycordinator on December 28, 2012, 02:36:48 PM
Ronnie James Dio found some ungodly high pitch screams in his 60s (!!!) that he never used before.  That was because the high end of his voice was suffering.  He still sounded great though but he had to alter his style towards the end.  For an example check out the beginning of Mob Rules from a tour from the 80s or 90s where he says "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh come onnnnn!" and compare it with the Radio City Music Hall show from 2007.  In that show he screams "Come onnnnn" in an aggressive falsetto more out of limitation of his vocal range at the age of 65 than anything else.  Still kind of a cool thing to experiment with and he still sounded great regardless.
On the other hand, listen to some of his live performances with Sabbath. He got into the habit of trying a growly-type voice especially for the somewhat lower registers and to me, it sounds awful; as a youtube commenter put it for one vid, it sounded as if he was gargling with drain cleaner. I seriously wish he had stuck to the style he'd used on the actual records.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on December 28, 2012, 11:07:24 PM
Ronnie James Dio found some ungodly high pitch screams in his 60s (!!!) that he never used before.  That was because the high end of his voice was suffering.  He still sounded great though but he had to alter his style towards the end.  For an example check out the beginning of Mob Rules from a tour from the 80s or 90s where he says "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh come onnnnn!" and compare it with the Radio City Music Hall show from 2007.  In that show he screams "Come onnnnn" in an aggressive falsetto more out of limitation of his vocal range at the age of 65 than anything else.  Still kind of a cool thing to experiment with and he still sounded great regardless.
On the other hand, listen to some of his live performances with Sabbath. He got into the habit of trying a growly-type voice especially for the somewhat lower registers and to me, it sounds awful; as a youtube commenter put it for one vid, it sounded as if he was gargling with drain cleaner. I seriously wish he had stuck to the style he'd used on the actual records.

Thats actually another good example of how his voice suffered towards the end.  He covered for it well because most people couldnt tell, but after being a somewhat obsessive fan of his and hearing various live recordings of his, I was able to compare some and here the parts that he most often altered in a live setting.  The times he did not do that you could see his voice was straining a little bit.  For instance, when he sang the lyrics "I'm the man on the SIIIIILVER Moooooountaaain" he would usually alter it in so the word "silver" was an octave lower.  Not a difficult note to reach by any means, but in the phrasing with the style of his vocals, it actually is difficult.

Like James, Dio is still awesome regardless. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 29, 2012, 12:49:01 AM
Like James, Dio is still awesome regardless.

Unlike Dio, I hope James lives for a long, long time, and then becomes a head in a jar Futurama style.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 29, 2012, 12:53:16 AM
There would be no room for all the hair  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on December 29, 2012, 04:29:44 AM
There would be no room for all the hair  :lol

Well at least the back side of his head would be full of hair. :lol


Futurama Ozzy would bite the heads of all the jars live in concert.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 29, 2012, 05:52:12 AM
why include stuff like New Millennium, TTTSTA or Goodnight Kiss when you can throw in The Glass Prison, A Mind Beside Itself or A Change Of Seasons?

FTFY  :tup

They already had those on the previous live album. That would have been silly, especially with how much time they'd eat out of the set time that would be taken away from other songs.
TGP really should have been on there, going into TDS.
Totally agreed - MP was pretty strict about not repeating songs on subsequent live albums, so it wouldn't have happened anyway.

So Just Let Me Breathe on OIALT and Live Scenes was OK, but ACOS and AMBI weren't? Mike, Mike, Mike...  :\
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 29, 2012, 06:08:09 AM
So Just Let Me Breathe on OIALT and Live Scenes was OK, but ACOS and AMBI weren't? Mike, Mike, Mike...  :\
JLMB is just a 5½-minute song, ACOS and AMBI are over 20 minutes long, so it's a different case. Besides, JLMB isn't on the DVD version of Live Scenes.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 29, 2012, 06:14:02 AM
Quality over length, my friend. I could sacrifice 3-4 mortal Dream Theater songs to have ACOS on DVD.

But in any case, I like the song rotation between live albums. Iron Maiden just keeps playing The Trooper/The Evil That Men Do/The Number of the Beast, even though they've worn me out three live albums ago  :P.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: slycordinator on December 29, 2012, 09:44:29 PM
Thats actually another good example of how his voice suffered towards the end.  He covered for it well because most people couldnt tell, but after being a somewhat obsessive fan of his and hearing various live recordings of his, I was able to compare some and here the parts that he most often altered in a live setting.
Actually, I was referring to stuff he did with Sabbath during his prime, when his voice wasn't actually suffering and he actively chose to do the growling vocals that were just atrocious. There were times where I think he might've thought doing that made them seem "edgier" or something.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jhonvictor on December 29, 2012, 10:02:44 PM
Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night. A Rite of Passage, ARE GOOD.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 29, 2012, 10:50:44 PM
Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night. A Rite of Passage, ARE GOOD.

:tup They're better than good. Theeeeeeeeey're GREAT!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 29, 2012, 11:18:17 PM
Another Day >> Metropolis (though Metropolis is still a good song)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cable on December 29, 2012, 11:37:05 PM
Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night. A Rite of Passage, ARE GOOD.

:tup They're better than good. Theeeeeeeeey're GREAT!


I'll agree greatly on the 1st and 3rd, and disagree highly on the 2nd.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 29, 2012, 11:42:18 PM
Constant Motion, Dark Eternal Night. A Rite of Passage, ARE GOOD.

:tup They're better than good. Theeeeeeeeey're GREAT!


I'll agree greatly on the 1st and 3rd, and disagree highly on the 2nd.

Your opinions make baby Petrucci cry.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: theseoafs on December 29, 2012, 11:47:27 PM
Sadly, I must inform all of you that those are three of the worst DT songs.  But fear not, because if you liked their not-so-good music, you're going to love their great music. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 29, 2012, 11:50:11 PM
Sadly, I must inform all of you that those are three of the worst DT songs.  But fear not, because if you liked their not-so-good music, you're going to love their great music. :biggrin:

Sadly, I must inform you that unfortunately DT released an entire album of music much, much worse than any of those excellent songs. It is called When Dream and Day Unite.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 29, 2012, 11:51:41 PM
Sadly, I must inform all of you that those are three of the worst DT songs.  But fear not, because if you liked their not-so-good music, you're going to love their great music. :biggrin:

Sadly, I must inform you that unfortunately DT released an entire album of music much, much worse than any of those excellent songs. It is called When Dream and Day Unite.

If you factor in production yes, but TKH and Afterlife, at least, top those songs for me when it comes to the actual songwriting, as borne out by the excellent live performances with JLB. A Fortune In Lies would be in the discussion as well.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 29, 2012, 11:54:59 PM
Sadly, I must inform all of you that those are three of the worst DT songs.  But fear not, because if you liked their not-so-good music, you're going to love their great music. :biggrin:

Sadly, I must inform you that unfortunately DT released an entire album of music much, much worse than any of those excellent songs. It is called When Dream and Day Unite.

If you factor in production yes, but TKH and Afterlife, at least, top those songs for me when it comes to the actual songwriting, as borne out by the excellent live performances with JLB. A Fortune In Lies would be in the discussion as well.

I'm not even factoring in production, I'm just factoring in the amateurish songwriting, and very poor melodies and phrasing. Even with their minor faults, TDEN, CM and AROP are very well constructed songs, and there's not even a comparison in how far ahead the songwriting is for them imo.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: orcus116 on December 30, 2012, 12:33:21 AM
You cite very poor melodies yet CM, TDEN and AROP contain some of the worst phoned-in, surface level nu-metal riffing in their catalog. WDADU captures the intricacies of a young band starting out with, yes, some influences but there is absolutely no excuse for a group of world talented musicians as much older, experienced, wiser men to be releasing such lazy material as those other three songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 12:40:55 AM
Sadly, I must inform all of you that those are three of the worst DT songs.  But fear not, because if you liked their not-so-good music, you're going to love their great music. :biggrin:

Sadly, I must inform you that unfortunately DT released an entire album of music much, much worse than any of those excellent songs. It is called When Dream and Day Unite.

If you factor in production yes, but TKH and Afterlife, at least, top those songs for me when it comes to the actual songwriting, as borne out by the excellent live performances with JLB. A Fortune In Lies would be in the discussion as well.

I'm not even factoring in production, I'm just factoring in the amateurish songwriting, and very poor melodies and phrasing. Even with their minor faults, TDEN, CM and AROP are very well constructed songs, and there's not even a comparison in how far ahead the songwriting is for them imo.

The WDADU album as a whole has plenty of amateur moments, and I love SC (my #3 DT album) and BCSL (5 or 6) but I disagree. I think AROP's and TDEN's instrumental sections, in particular, are quite jarring and add nothing and/or detract from the songs. TKH, on the other hand (if you use, say, the Marquee version), might have the most effortless flow of any of DT's "intricate" compositions, with disparate verses and riffs melding together seamlessly. Afterlife also is very well-constructed.

Constant Motion is pretty well-done, though I don't see any obvious reason to think it's better-written than, say, AFIL. The biggest weakness with those songs' original versions is that they were written for the wrong singer, which is immature, but with LaBrie they come together quite well.

I will say that AROP and TDEN are certainly ahead of LFAGA, TOWHTSTS, and OAMOT in terms of maturity. I get where you're coming from. I just don't think WDADU can all be put into that same pot--it's not a uniformly immature album; instead, like many first albums, it shows flashes of maturity of brilliance but does waver in spots.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 30, 2012, 02:00:11 AM
You cite very poor melodies yet CM, TDEN and AROP contain some of the worst phoned-in, surface level nu-metal riffing in their catalog. WDADU captures the intricacies of a young band starting out with, yes, some influences but there is absolutely no excuse for a group of world talented musicians as much older, experienced, wiser men to be releasing such lazy material as those other three songs.
QFT. I think the vocal melodies in the verses of both TDEN and AROP are pretty lazy, CM doesn't shine in that department, either. The instrumental section in AROP also feels like it was thrown there just for the sake of making it longer and a bit more complex than an average hit single. And while I guess TDEN is supposed to be chaotic, it feels just random and wanky - even The Dance of Eternity sounds more carefully structured.

Obviously WD&DU has some clunky moments, but they can be excused somehow because the band members were still so young. But Systematic Chaos was the 9th DT album and at that point I think they could've easily come up with better written songs than TDEN, for example.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 02:14:44 AM
IMO, the AROP Bebot solo is as immature as just about anything else in DT history, too.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 30, 2012, 02:15:08 AM
You cite very poor melodies yet CM, TDEN and AROP contain some of the worst phoned-in, surface level nu-metal riffing in their catalog. WDADU captures the intricacies of a young band starting out with, yes, some influences but there is absolutely no excuse for a group of world talented musicians as much older, experienced, wiser men to be releasing such lazy material as those other three songs.

:clap:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 02:27:55 AM
You cite very poor melodies yet CM, TDEN and AROP contain some of the worst phoned-in, surface level nu-metal riffing in their catalog. WDADU captures the intricacies of a young band starting out with, yes, some influences but there is absolutely no excuse for a group of world talented musicians as much older, experienced, wiser men to be releasing such lazy material as those other three songs.

Aside from maybe TDEN, there's nothing nu-metal about those songs. Not a metal fan, I take it? Learn your metal.
CM, TDEN and AROP still clearly show the talent of an experienced band who can craft melodies and harmonies. The choruses alone clearly display that.
WDADU largely fails at the most basic levels of songwriting, with clunky and awkward phrasing that could only have been written by a bunch of young amateurs, and tacked together songwriting that even puts AROP's instrumental section to shame. At best WDADU manages passable.

Present DT's "lazy" songwriting is still leagues ahead of early DT's best attempts.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 02:52:55 AM
CM, TDEN and AROP still clearly show the talent of an experienced band who can craft melodies and harmonies. The choruses alone clearly display that.

Afterlife's chorus is just as well-written as any of those.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 30, 2012, 04:03:12 AM
CM, TDEN and AROP still clearly show the talent of an experienced band who can craft melodies and harmonies. The choruses alone clearly display that.

Afterlife's chorus is just as well-written as any of those.
The whole song is better-written than any of those. And songs like A Fortune in Lies, Status Seeker and Ytse Jam aren't any worse-structured than, say, The Ministry of Lost Souls.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 30, 2012, 04:14:13 AM
The only song of WDADU that I find seriously lacking music and vocally wise (and I'm not taking into account Charlie's vocals, or I would need to downgrade the whole album more than it deserves) is The Ones Who Help To.... There is nothing I would call seriously wrong with the other song, besides a certain quirkiness in the melodies of LFAGA. Songs like A Fortune In Lies, Afterlife and The Killing Hand, on the other hand (no pun intended) can walk proudly among most newere DT songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 30, 2012, 04:31:20 AM
I love TOWHTSTS! :( I have no problem with the vocal lines in that song at all (except maybe "My melting hands streaked the glass", which sounds a bit awkward), and while there are quite many tempo changes, it doesn't feel like multiple songs glued together, unlike some later DT songs (Octavarium, The Ministry of Lost Souls). However, Light Fuse & Get Away is clearly the weak point of WD&DU in terms of structuring and vocal phrasing.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 30, 2012, 04:33:36 AM
I don't mind The Ones... but it's the least memorable song from the album for me (but not the worst).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 04:49:01 AM
CM, TDEN and AROP still clearly show the talent of an experienced band who can craft melodies and harmonies. The choruses alone clearly display that.

Afterlife's chorus is just as well-written as any of those.

Afterlife does have a really good chorus, and it's definitely one of my favourites off the album (especially for its more conventional structure), but the song still has songwriting issues. It highlights their early problems with the bass fitting the correct register and gelling with the song. The bass behind that thrashy riff really clashes. It's more obvious on Score with a better mix than it is on WDADU though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 04:59:39 AM
I think the question really becomes which issue you take more offense to: an instrument (including vocals) not fitting the song, or a section not fitting the song. WDADU certainly is a worse offender in the former category (AROP Bebot solo aside), but with a few exceptions (the bad "transitions" in LFAGA being the most glaring), most of the sections in WDADU gel better as songs than the latter-day DT stuff, where they've fallen into a habit of pasting in long instrumental sections with different grooves, tempos, and time signatures than are contained in the rest of the song.

So it really depends on what jars you more. For me, I can ignore/compartmentalize out a bass part or some vocal phrasing. I can't ignore an entire section of a song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 05:12:45 AM
I think the question really becomes which issue you take more offense to: an instrument (including vocals) not fitting the song, or a section not fitting the song. WDADU certainly is a worse offender in the former category (AROP Bebot solo aside), but with a few exceptions (the bad "transitions" in LFAGA being the most glaring), most of the sections in WDADU gel better as songs than the latter-day DT stuff, where they've fallen into a habit of pasting in long instrumental sections with different grooves, tempos, and time signatures than are contained in the rest of the song.

So it really depends on what jars you more. For me, I can ignore/compartmentalize out a bass part or some vocal phrasing. I can't ignore an entire section of a song.

I don't agree that WDADU gels better than more recent songs. Yeah, newer DT songs do have some jarring transitions, but the issue is overblown in general, and the sections are long enough that a transition here or there doesn't affect the flow that much at all. WDADU switches around more often, and more regularly abandons the tempo and switches on a dime. Not that there aren't several examples of modern DT doing that (such as AROP's pasted in instrumental section), but a lot of the modern transitions that people criticize are a hell of a lot smoother than WDADU. :dunno:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on December 30, 2012, 05:33:16 AM
I don't think I have very many truly controversial opinions.  6:00 and The Great Debate are each among my least favorite DT songs; I think that's probably about as controversial as I get, really. 

Unless you count my undying love for the JLB version of To Live Forever as controversial. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 05:35:37 AM
I don't agree that WDADU gels better than more recent songs.

The album as a whole doesn't cohere better, but there are certainly spots/songs that gel better than some of the lower lights on recent albums. The worst song (and worst-written song) by DT since 2007 is worse (and worse-written) than the best song on WDADU.

the sections are long enough that a transition here or there doesn't affect the flow that much at all

I think this is also the root of some of this disagreement. The way I see it, the excessive length of these pasted-in sections actually hurts the flow of the song. When it inevitably returns to its original groove for a final verse or chorus, you have that "Oh...yeah...I remember how the song went like this five minutes ago" moment, where you have to quickly re-orient yourself back to where the song was before the instrumental section--see Outcry for a particularly egregious example. Whereas with WDADU, yeah the band was kind of all over the place, but that kind of keeps you alert when you listen to it. The band doesn't settle into a groove for four minutes and then pull the rug out from under you for no apparent reason. That doesn't mean it's fantastically written or anything, but once I heard the better WDADU songs a few times I just got used to the arrangements. On the other hand, the lesser songs from WDADU, and from all eras of DT really (including songs like AROP and TDEN), will always have sections that make me go "Why is this here?"
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 05:44:54 AM
I don't agree that WDADU gels better than more recent songs.

The album as a whole doesn't cohere better, but there are certainly spots/songs that gel better than some of the lower lights on recent albums. The worst song (and worst-written song) by DT since 2007 is worse (and worse-written) than the best song on WDADU.

the sections are long enough that a transition here or there doesn't affect the flow that much at all

I think this is also the root of some of this disagreement. The way I see it, the excessive length of these pasted-in sections actually hurts the flow of the song. When it inevitably returns to its original groove for a final verse or chorus, you have that "Oh...yeah...I remember how the song went like this five minutes ago" moment, where you have to quickly re-orient yourself back to where the song was before the instrumental section--see Outcry for a particularly egregious example. Whereas with WDADU, yeah the band was kind of all over the place, but that kind of keeps you alert when you listen to it. The band doesn't settle into a groove for four minutes and then pull the rug out from under you for no apparent reason. That doesn't mean it's fantastically written or anything, but once I heard the better WDADU songs a few times I just got used to the arrangements. On the other hand, the lesser songs from WDADU, and from all eras of DT really (including songs like AROP and TDEN), will always have sections that make me go "Why is this here?"

I think that must be the root of the disagreement, because I don't agree with that reasoning. But it's prog, so there's no "right" or "wrong" approach to it, I guess it's just what works for the individual. I'd rather a song have a few larger sections, than have dozens of tiny sections that don't give me a feel for what the song is trying to do, which is why I really don't think much of a song like ACOS.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on December 30, 2012, 05:50:42 AM
Well, it's all opinion, of course, but the way I see it, if you have 'dozens of tiny sections' that feel very different from each other, the whole song just feels chaotic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But if you have a few larger sections that feel very different from each other, it doesn't feel simply 'chaotic' to me, it just feels like it's at odds with itself, spending five minutes building in one direction only to spend three minutes moving in a completely different direction, only to jump back to the original direction.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 05:58:12 AM
Well, it's all opinion, of course, but the way I see it, if you have 'dozens of tiny sections' that feel very different from each other, the whole song just feels chaotic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But if you have a few larger sections that feel very different from each other, it doesn't feel simply 'chaotic' to me, it just feels like it's at odds with itself, spending five minutes building in one direction only to spend three minutes moving in a completely different direction, only to jump back to the original direction.

To me a song with lots of little sections is like a modern day fight sequence in a movie where it switches around so quickly you can't get your bearings and tell what's going on, and it's just a mess.
But with longer sections, it's like different scenes in a movie. They can be totally different, but they're all cohesive within themselves, and you can see how they all fit together to form the larger whole. I don't get that sense when the song doesn't settle on anything long enough for me to get any emotional response from it, and develop a musical idea fully before moving on to a new section.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on December 30, 2012, 06:30:52 AM
Well, see, to me, when a song doesn't settle on anything long enough for me to get a musical response from it, that tells me that chaos is the whole point.  Like, you've talked about Metropolis before as an example of a song with crazy jarring transitions, but to me, Metropolis is a song about crazy jarring transitions.  The first time I heard that song I thought it was completely batshit insane.  Luckily it was intriguing enough to make me listen again, and by the fourth or fifth listen I was acclimated to the chaos of it, and nowadays I adore every chaotic moment of it.

It's sort of like spinning around in circles.  Sometimes, spinning around in circles can be very fun.  But if your goal is to get somewhere, then spinning around in circles is just a meaningless waste of time. 

So to me, a song with lots of crazy tiny sections is like spinning around in circles for the fun of it, whereas a cohesive song with one large crazy section pasted in the middle of it feels more like trying to get from point A to point B and randomly stopping to spin in circles on the way there. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 06:33:12 AM
Reading that post makes me dizzier than spinning in circles would have. :lol

In Metropolis it works, because I do feel like chaos is the point (as I feel it is in TDEN, and I think it works perfectly there too), but on WDADU, it just feels ingrained in the songwiting style regardless of whether it fits the song. Unless the whole album is supposed to be chaos, I don't get the feeling it was supposed to sound like the mess that it is.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 06:42:18 AM
To me a song with lots of little sections is like a modern day fight sequence in a movie where it switches around so quickly you can't get your bearings and tell what's going on, and it's just a mess.
But with longer sections, it's like different scenes in a movie. They can be totally different, but they're all cohesive within themselves, and you can see how they all fit together to form the larger whole. I don't get that sense when the song doesn't settle on anything long enough for me to get any emotional response from it, and develop a musical idea fully before moving on to a new section.

Where this kind of breaks down for me is when the split is, as it often is with DT, vocal-instrumental-vocal. The 'different scenes' thing works (for me; obviously I'm being subjective) if it's all instrumental or all vocal-based, but there's just something incongruous about having an instrumental section that doesn't go with the lyrics and/or the music put around them. That makes it like scenes from different movies, not one movie, to me. So I can handle even the madness of instrumentals like TDOE or YJ, or all the vocal twists of The Killing Hand, because they're always communicating on the same wavelength despite the turns, but I get annoyed with something like the AROP middle section.

Of course, part of my distaste for that AROP section, the TDEN middle, or The Reckoning is that the music in those sections sounds very tossed-off and the riffs aren't compelling, but that's another totally subjective arena not really worth diving into IMO. I think the style can work, but I much prefer its use on, say, Peruvian Skies--the section transitions smoothly into the guitar solo and then has cool riffs from there, and it also works its way back to the vocals without any real difficulty.

But hey, just my opinion. DT certainly can be enjoyed in all sorts of different ways and by people with all sorts of different tastes (and micro-tastes).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 06:48:11 AM
This always beings me to the question of how Metropolis' instrumental section fits the song any better than any modern DT song. It's just a random, shreddy, chaotic section with a 200bpm carnival solo in the middle. How does that fit the rest of the song and the lyrics? It doesn't. And the transition into the instrumental section isn't exactly smooth either.
Granted, it's an awesome instrumental section, but the point is this isn't something exclusive to modern DT.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on December 30, 2012, 06:49:13 AM
Reading that post makes me dizzier than spinning in circles would have. :lol

Admittedly it got away from me a bit.  For whatever it's worth, what I posted was the most sensible of several attempts.   :lol 

In Metropolis it works, because I do feel like chaos is the point (as I feel it is in TDEN, and I think it works perfectly there too), but on WDADU, it just feels ingrained in the songwiting style regardless of whether it fits the song. Unless the whole album is supposed to be chaos, I don't get the feeling it was supposed to sound like the mess that it is.

Well, of course in the end it's all going to come down to opinions.  I didn't really mean to be defending WDADU, only addressing the issue of 'lots of tiny sections' vs. 'a few larger sections'. 

When it comes to WDADU specifically... I would say that while some songs on SC and BC&SL feel like they're going somewhere and getting lost along the way, some songs on WDADU feel like they have no idea where they're going in the first place. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 06:54:57 AM
This always beings me to the question of how Metropolis' instrumental section fits the song any better than any modern DT song. It's just a random, shreddy, chaotic section with a 200bpm carnival solo in the middle. How does that fit the rest of the song and the lyrics? It doesn't. And the transition into the instrumental section isn't exactly smooth either.
Granted, it's an awesome instrumental section, but the point is this isn't something exclusive to modern DT.

Yeah, this gets at what I was saying in the second paragraph of my last post. And for the record, I agree with this viewpoint. But there's just some spark behind those I&W sections that isn't always there with the modern stuff. It doesn't sound tossed-off. It does sound oddly placed, but it sounds like the band pored over it for days, deciding every note. Whereas the modern stuff sometimes reflects the whole "We're recording and writing at the same time" thing--there isn't a gestation period for quality control that allows those sections to become interesting journeys of their own a lot of the time.

There's also something about I&W's production that seems to unify the songs better than any album since.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 07:01:21 AM
This always beings me to the question of how Metropolis' instrumental section fits the song any better than any modern DT song. It's just a random, shreddy, chaotic section with a 200bpm carnival solo in the middle. How does that fit the rest of the song and the lyrics? It doesn't. And the transition into the instrumental section isn't exactly smooth either.
Granted, it's an awesome instrumental section, but the point is this isn't something exclusive to modern DT.

Yeah, this gets at what I was saying in the second paragraph of my last post. And for the record, I agree with this viewpoint. But there's just some spark behind those I&W sections that isn't always there with the modern stuff. It doesn't sound tossed-off. It does sound oddly placed, but it sounds like the band pored over it for days, deciding every note. Whereas the modern stuff sometimes reflects the whole "We're recording and writing at the same time" thing--there isn't a gestation period for quality control that allows those sections to become interesting journeys of their own a lot of the time.

I totally get that, and those IaW instrumental sections are godly.
I've just never liked the specific criticism of modern DT having jarring transitions, when it's always been a part of DT's songwriting, even in many of their most universally loved songs, and I have no problem with them doing it. If people think it's just a matter of quality/preference, then I'm fine with that opinion. But I generally don't have a problem with the way DT do transitions on more recent albums, and I think some of them get a bad wrap when they shouldn't.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on December 30, 2012, 07:33:34 AM
MP was pretty strict about not repeating songs on subsequent live albums

And some of the latter live albums/DVDs suffered as a result.  Score, in particular, is an extremely weak anniversary set list, and this is because he got too caught up in trying to not repeat songs instead of picking the songs that best represented the band (which is what an anniversary show should be for).  I mean, I Walk Beside You, The Answer Lies Within, Vacant and Innocence Faded make the 20th anniversary set list, but Take the Time, Learning to Live, The Glass Prison and Voices do not?  Okay.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 30, 2012, 08:07:32 AM
Here's another possibly controversial opinion of mine: JR's use of the continuum is awesome and he should use it more. The continuum solo in ANTR might be my favorite "traditional" JR solo--if it's not, it's close.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 30, 2012, 08:09:10 AM
MP was pretty strict about not repeating songs on subsequent live albums

And some of the latter live albums/DVDs suffered as a result.  Score, in particular, is an extremely weak anniversary set list, and this is because he got too caught up in trying to not repeat songs instead of picking the songs that best represented the band (which is what an anniversary show should be for).  I mean, I Walk Beside You, The Answer Lies Within, Vacant and Innocence Faded make the 20th anniversary set list, but Take the Time, Learning to Live, The Glass Prison and Voices do not?  Okay.

In three years they will most likely make the 30th anniversary DVD, assuming there will be one!  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 30, 2012, 08:19:11 AM
In three years they will most likely make the 30th anniversary DVD, assuming there will be one!  :tup
Hopefully we will finally get a version of LTL where James nails the F#5 then!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on December 30, 2012, 09:00:46 AM
Here's another possibly controversial opinion of mine: JR's use of the continuum is awesome and he should use it more. The continuum solo in ANTR might be my favorite "traditional" JR solo--if it's not, it's close.

I completely agree.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on December 30, 2012, 09:56:27 AM
In three years they will most likely make the 30th anniversary DVD, assuming there will be one!  :tup
Hopefully we will finally get a version of LTL where James nails the F#5 then!
Oh we have plenty of those, just nothing on the official albums :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on December 30, 2012, 10:05:10 AM
This isn't really a controversial opinion, but rather an unusual thing about me as a Dream Theater fan. I own 5 studio albums by Dream Theater: Images and Words, Awake, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, Octavarium, and a Dramatic Turn of Events.

What's controversial about that? Where's Scenes, or Falling Into Infinity? Why don't I have all of them yet? I'm not really sure why, I have just discovered a lot of music in the last year and a half, and I've been trying to build a balanced library, so Dream Theater has taken a slight backseat when it comes to buying new albums.

I'm sorry if I'm not forming my statements very well, I'm on some medicine recovering from getting my wisdom teeth out and it's making me really tired.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 10:08:51 AM
This isn't really a controversial opinion, but rather an unusual thing about me as a Dream Theater fan. I own 5 studio albums by Dream Theater: Images and Words, Awake, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, Octavarium, and a Dramatic Turn of Events.

You don't have SFAM? At the very least you can't call yourself a DT fan until you have SFAM!

Whatever you're in the middle of doing, drop it and go out and buy it immediately. I don't care if you're in the middle of working, or about to go to sleep, or taking a dump, or hooked up to life support, just get up right now, hop into your car (or if you don't drive, run like hell), and find a copy of SFAM. Don't even bother coming back home tonight unless you're holding a copy of SFAM.
Then crank it, and report back in about 75 minutes or so.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on December 30, 2012, 10:11:54 AM
I edited my post to explain why I probably can't get it immediately. I do really want to get it soon though. I'll go to my record store sometime next week probably and order it in.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 30, 2012, 10:39:48 AM
You don't have SFAM? At the very least you can't call yourself a DT fan until you have SFAM!

Whatever you're in the middle of doing, drop it and go out and buy it immediately. I don't care if you're in the middle of working, or about to go to sleep, or taking a dump, or hooked up to life support, just get up right now, hop into your car (or if you don't drive, run like hell), and find a copy of SFAM. Don't even coming back home tonight unless you're holding a copy of SFAM.
Then crank it, and report back in about 75 minutes or so.

You know, I was actually thinking about buying a second copy of it, just to have a sealed one.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 10:43:26 AM
You don't have SFAM? At the very least you can't call yourself a DT fan until you have SFAM!

Whatever you're in the middle of doing, drop it and go out and buy it immediately. I don't care if you're in the middle of working, or about to go to sleep, or taking a dump, or hooked up to life support, just get up right now, hop into your car (or if you don't drive, run like hell), and find a copy of SFAM. Don't even coming back home tonight unless you're holding a copy of SFAM.
Then crank it, and report back in about 75 minutes or so.

You know, I was actually thinking about buying a second copy of it, just to have a sealed one.

Couldn't hurt!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on December 30, 2012, 10:53:37 AM
I wish I kept a sealed version of the live SFAM album when I got it on 9/11.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 30, 2012, 11:23:57 AM
This isn't really a controversial opinion, but rather an unusual thing about me as a Dream Theater fan. I own 5 studio albums by Dream Theater: Images and Words, Awake, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, Octavarium, and a Dramatic Turn of Events.

You don't have SFAM? At the very least you can't call yourself a DT fan until you have SFAM!

Whatever you're in the middle of doing, drop it and go out and buy it immediately. I don't care if you're in the middle of working, or about to go to sleep, or taking a dump, or hooked up to life support, just get up right now, hop into your car (or if you don't drive, run like hell), and find a copy of SFAM. Don't even bother coming back home tonight unless you're holding a copy of SFAM.
Then crank it, and report back in about 75 minutes or so.

Why should he bother buying SFAM? He already has the three best DT albums and Six Degrees :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on December 30, 2012, 12:16:28 PM
I'll pick up Scenes as soon as I can. I've listened to it, and as far as I can tell, it's basically a defining album for the "Dream Theater sound".
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 30, 2012, 12:19:10 PM
I'll pick up Scenes as soon as I can. I've listened to it, and as far as I can tell, it's basically a defining album for the "Dream Theater sound".

Indeed, all jokes aside. Not as much as Images And Words, but it's a crime for a DT fan not to own it! It's basically the second youth of the band, the basin that fueled live shows for the next decade in one way or another, the term of comparison for any concept album in the prog-metal scene. You better buy it, it's a beacon of progressive music! :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on December 30, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
Well, when you put it that way... :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on December 30, 2012, 01:01:35 PM
I think Images and Words introduced a new, revolutionary sound and dynamic to Progressive Metal. It has established what Prog Metal would be all through the 90's, and largely beyond. But what Images and Words has invented, I would say Scenes From A Memory has perfected. Personally, I'm the type of person who prefers the perfected and refined, rather than just something new and unique. Of course, Images and Words is awesome enough to follow very closely behind, but still, SFAM is #1 in my book.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on December 30, 2012, 01:49:57 PM
For me at the time I was missing the heavy progressive music.  Not many bands were heading that way so when I heard the heaviness while still being prog, I had to get it.  Everything was so tinny in the late 80's.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Marion Crane on December 30, 2012, 02:28:10 PM
Octavarium is easily my least favorite of the "epics"
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on December 30, 2012, 03:09:11 PM
Well, see, to me, when a song doesn't settle on anything long enough for me to get a musical response from it, that tells me that chaos is the whole point.  Like, you've talked about Metropolis before as an example of a song with crazy jarring transitions, but to me, Metropolis is a song about crazy jarring transitions.  The first time I heard that song I thought it was completely batshit insane.  Luckily it was intriguing enough to make me listen again, and by the fourth or fifth listen I was acclimated to the chaos of it, and nowadays I adore every chaotic moment of it.

It's sort of like spinning around in circles.  Sometimes, spinning around in circles can be very fun.  But if your goal is to get somewhere, then spinning around in circles is just a meaningless waste of time. 

So to me, a song with lots of crazy tiny sections is like spinning around in circles for the fun of it, whereas a cohesive song with one large crazy section pasted in the middle of it feels more like trying to get from point A to point B and randomly stopping to spin in circles on the way there. 

That's some very good analogies. A good piece, that goes somewhere, but also has a crazy instrumental section, would be more like getting from point A to point B, and then randomly spinning in circles while still moving in a straight line. Difficult to do, but if you can do it, you get fun + still getting to point B. For example, Point A is the end of Home, Point B is the beginning of One Last Time. The entire path inbetween is The Dance of Eternity; spinning in circles the whole way through, but still moving forward. It's at least somewhat cohesive and gets somewhere.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on December 30, 2012, 03:21:26 PM
WDADU > SC & BCSL

Why? Because there is nothing on WDADU that makes me roll my eyes or cringe.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on December 30, 2012, 03:38:46 PM
I think John Myung talks too fuckin much.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 30, 2012, 03:44:20 PM
I think John Myung talks too fuckin much.

You can't be serious  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on December 30, 2012, 04:22:42 PM
That's some very good analogies.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 30, 2012, 09:33:03 PM
WDADU > SC & BCSL

Why? Because there is nothing on WDADU that makes me roll my eyes or cringe.

Really? The entire album makes me cringe, from the vocals, to the production, to the songwriting.

I AM THE KILLING HAAAAAAAAAAANNDD
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on December 31, 2012, 12:13:21 AM
I think John Myung talks too fuckin much.

You can't be serious  :lol
;)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 54_diplomats on December 31, 2012, 01:42:03 AM
WDADU > SC & BCSL

Why? Because there is nothing on WDADU that makes me roll my eyes or cringe.

I don't think WDADU is better than SC, but I do think it's better than Black Clouds. WDADU is a pretty good album honestly.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on December 31, 2012, 01:45:46 AM
Repentance is by far the best song on Systematic Chaos.

The Answer Lies Within is only worse than Octavarium, Sacrificed Sons, and The Root of All Evil, on Octavarium
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 31, 2012, 02:02:13 AM
I never liked These Walls. I have been told I need to amend that, and that is what I will try to do this morning.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 31, 2012, 02:05:14 AM
I think John Myung talks too fuckin much.
Yeah, he always does all the interviews and never lets anyone else say anything, he should learn to shut up sometimes!
WDADU > FII, 6DOIT, TOT, 8V, SC & BCSL
Fixed.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: nikatapi on December 31, 2012, 03:21:26 AM
WDADU > SC & BCSL

Why? Because there is nothing on WDADU that makes me roll my eyes or cringe.

Really? The entire album makes me cringe, from the vocals, to the production, to the songwriting.

I AM THE KILLING HAAAAAAAAAAANNDD

Yeah while:
"Apocalyptic mind debris
Until we meet again
Uhh!"

"Day after day and night after night..."

"Sucking on his pipe"

And many more, are not cringeworthy at all.

Honestly, i think WDADU is better sounding than the brickwalling and full of bass drum shitty sound of SC.
And, i like CD better on the WDADU songs than JLB.

Come at me bros.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 31, 2012, 03:38:50 AM

And, i like CD better on the WDADU songs than JLB.

Come at me bros.

I allow everything else you said beside this. Now, you can't be serioud!  :lol

I'm uploading a bootleg for you right now. It's a recollection of WDADU songs performed by James in his prime (1992-1994), and as such is a sort of a vocally (but of course not instrumentally) better version of WDADRU. It's called When Dream And James Unite. If you don't already have it.

Actually no, I will make a compilation myself. I have a wider choice than those who made the CD originally had.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 31, 2012, 03:46:30 AM
WDADU > SC & BCSL

Why? Because there is nothing on WDADU that makes me roll my eyes or cringe.

Really? The entire album makes me cringe, from the vocals, to the production, to the songwriting.

I AM THE KILLING HAAAAAAAAAAANNDD

Yeah while:
"Apocalyptic mind debris
Until we meet again
Uhh!"

"Day after day and night after night..."

"Sucking on his pipe"

And many more, are not cringeworthy at all.

Honestly, i think WDADU is better sounding than the brickwalling and full of bass drum shitty sound of SC.
And, i like CD better on the WDADU songs than JLB.

Come at me bros.



I never said anything about SC or BCASL, but the complete awfulness of WDADU far exceeds any problems those two albums have, by miles. Charlie's vocals are laughable throughout the entire album, the production is worse than demo quality, and the songwriting is mostly abysmal.


WDADU > FII, 6DOIT, TOT, 8V, SC & BCSL
Fixed.

:rollin Let's not get stupid here.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 31, 2012, 03:50:44 AM
And, i like CD better on the WDADU songs than JLB.
I think James sounds better on A Fortune in Lies, The Killing Hand and Afterlife, but I agree on the rest. I have listened to the versions on WDADRU and some bootlegs, but Charlie's voice simply suits those songs better IMO.
WDADU > FII, 6DOIT, TOT, 8V, SC & BCSL
Fixed.

:rollin Let's not get stupid here.
Opinions are opinions :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 31, 2012, 03:53:25 AM
WDADU > FII, 6DOIT, TOT, 8V, SC & BCSL
Fixed.

:rollin Let's not get stupid here.
Opinions are opinions :biggrin:

:lol Hey, if anyone here is familiar with unconventional opinions it's me, but WDADU better than SDOIT? That's just insane, dude. Their worst album vs their best album (respectively). I wouldn't even put it in the ballpark of any of the rest either.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tomislav95 on December 31, 2012, 03:55:16 AM

And, i like CD better on the WDADU songs than JLB.

Come at me bros.

I allow everything else you said beside this. Now, you can't be serioud!  :lol

I'm uploading a bootleg for you right now. It's a recollection of WDADU songs performed by James in his prime (1992-1994), and as such is a sort of a vocally (but of course not instrumentally) better version of WDADRU. It's called When Dream And James Unite. If you don't already have it.

Actually no, I will make a compilation myself. I have a wider choice than those who made the CD originally had.
PLS :angel:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 31, 2012, 03:59:47 AM
:lol Hey, if anyone here is familiar with unconventional opinions it's me, but WDADU better than SDOIT? That's just insane, dude. Their worst album vs their best album (respectively). I wouldn't even put it in the ballpark of any of the rest either.
Well, Six Degrees is about as great as WD&DU, but the title-"track" could've been slightly trimmed down. The only weak point of WD&DU is Light Fuse... and the album has a more listener-friendly length, so I get the urge to listen to it in full more often than with 6D. But both albums are great, and Six Degrees obviously has some of the best DT songs ever (Blind Faith, The Great Debate, The Glass Prison).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 31, 2012, 04:01:15 AM
WDADU is better than Octavarium, SC, and Black Clouds. It's not even a contest in the case of the first two.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 31, 2012, 04:17:40 AM
:lol Hey, if anyone here is familiar with unconventional opinions it's me, but WDADU better than SDOIT? That's just insane, dude. Their worst album vs their best album (respectively). I wouldn't even put it in the ballpark of any of the rest either.
Well, Six Degrees is about as great as WD&DU, but the title-"track" could've been slightly trimmed down. The only weak point of WD&DU is Light Fuse... and the album has a more listener-friendly length, so I get the urge to listen to it in full more often than with 6D. But both albums are great, and Six Degrees obviously has some of the best DT songs ever (Blind Faith, The Great Debate, The Glass Prison).

Light Fuse and Get Away, Status Seeker, TOWHTSTS and OAMOT are DT's absolute worst songs imo. Half of the album is terrible, and the other half is still only "ok" at best.
Meanwhile, SDOIT is almost perfect from start to finish, and I'd rank the title track and TGP tied as DT's #1 songs, with the rest being top 10 worthy (except for TGD, which I'd rank a little lower).

Sorry, I find it ridiculous to even mention the two albums in the same sentence, even in a controversial opinion thread. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: nikatapi on December 31, 2012, 04:50:42 AM

And, i like CD better on the WDADU songs than JLB.

Come at me bros.

I allow everything else you said beside this. Now, you can't be serioud!  :lol

I'm uploading a bootleg for you right now. It's a recollection of WDADU songs performed by James in his prime (1992-1994), and as such is a sort of a vocally (but of course not instrumentally) better version of WDADRU. It's called When Dream And James Unite. If you don't already have it.

Actually no, I will make a compilation myself. I have a wider choice than those who made the CD originally had.

You're a great guy  :hefdaddy

I know some songs are better with JLB from a technical standpoint, but i think (with the exception of the Killing Hand which is better by James 92-93 era) but i think that Charlie is good on other songs. Especially Status Seeker, this might be his best DT performance imo.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 31, 2012, 05:13:20 AM
Thanks! And stick around, the mixtape will be available within one hour, and I can tell you that you are in for a lot of pleasant surprises!  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tomislav95 on December 31, 2012, 05:42:20 AM
Thanks! And stick around, the mixtape will be available within one hour, and I can tell you that you are in for a lot of pleasant surprises!  :tup
Can you send it to me, too? ::)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 31, 2012, 05:57:16 AM
I can kind of understand not liking James more than Charlie on some of those WDADU songs. He's got that really staccato delivery that actually almost kind of works on some of the really wordy bits, or at least it works as well as those lines can work. Whereas James' more naturally resonant voice really shows how awkwardly constructed some of those lines are--diction's never really been among his strengths, after all. That's not really the way I personally look at things, but I can get how someone could get to that point. I actually do prefer WDADU's vocals to those on WDADRU in general, just because it was clearly an off night for James. Those 92-94 performances are the definitive performances of the songs for me, though. AFIL and TKH on LATM (and other performances of the era) just slay, and I forget which bootleg had James put an F# in Afterlife, but that was awesome too.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 31, 2012, 06:04:51 AM
I can kind of understand not liking James more than Charlie on some of those WDADU songs. He's got that really staccato delivery that actually almost kind of works on some of the really wordy bits, or at least it works as well as those lines can work. Whereas James' more naturally resonant voice really shows how awkwardly constructed some of those lines are--diction's never really been among his strengths, after all. That's not really the way I personally look at things, but I can get how someone could get to that point. I actually do prefer WDADU's vocals to those on WDADRU in general, just because it was clearly an off night for James. Those 92-94 performances are the definitive performances of the songs for me, though. AFIL and TKH on LATM (and other performances of the era) just slay, and I forget which bootleg had James put an F# in Afterlife, but that was awesome too.

He sings the high F# at the end of the 1993-11-15 bootleg I have. Those IaW era performances of WDADU were really the best renditions by far.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 31, 2012, 06:08:56 AM
He hits two separate F#s in the Afterlife I included in the compilation!

Only A Matter Of James (http://sdrv.ms/ZOROp8)
Quote
A Fortune In Lies - 1992.06.08 - NYC
Status Seeker - 1993.07.22 - NYC
To Live Forever - 1993.06.05 - San Fran (the vamp is highly recommended)
The Killing Hand - 1992.10.04 - Deer Park
Light Fuse And Get Away - 1993.01.02 - Deer Park
Afterlife - 1993.11.07 - Stuttgart
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun - 1994.10.29 - NYC
Only A Matter Of Time - 1992.09.27 - NYC
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 31, 2012, 06:13:27 AM
He hits two separate F#s in the Afterlife I included in the compilation!

That level of dedication is admirable! The bootleg I have only has one F#. :(
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: nikatapi on December 31, 2012, 06:16:09 AM
He hits two separate F#s in the Afterlife I included in the compilation!

Only A Matter Of James (http://sdrv.ms/ZOROp8)
Quote
A Fortune In Lies - 1992.06.08 - NYC
Status Seeker - 1993.07.22 - NYC
To Live Forever - 1993.06.05 - San Fran (the vamp is highly recommended)
The Killing Hand - 1992.10.04 - Deer Park
Light Fuse And Get Away - 1993.01.02 - Deer Park
Afterlife - 1993.11.07 - Stuttgart
The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun - 1994.10.29 - NYC
Only A Matter Of Time - 1992.09.27 - NYC

Thanks!!!I'm downloading right now!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on December 31, 2012, 06:19:45 AM
And what if I told you that the first, lesser known F# is an exact replica of the Learning To Live one?  :o
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 31, 2012, 06:43:03 AM
He hits two separate F#s in the Afterlife I included in the compilation!

That level of dedication is admirable! The bootleg I have only has one F#. :(

When all else fails, hit the F#!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on December 31, 2012, 06:50:07 AM
Sorry, I find it ridiculous to even mention the two albums in the same sentence, even in a controversial opinion thread. :lol
I know the feeling, I would react the same way if someone said they prefer SC to Awake! :lol  I just happen to love WD&DU so much that I think it's just as great as Six Degrees, or even a bit better.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on December 31, 2012, 06:50:16 AM
He hits two separate F#s in the Afterlife I included in the compilation!

That level of dedication is admirable! The bootleg I have only has one F#. :(

When all else fails, hit the F#!

As it's the 1st Jan here, I pledge to make this my new year's resolution. I think this will make it an especially special year indeed.


Sorry, I find it ridiculous to even mention the two albums in the same sentence, even in a controversial opinion thread. :lol
I know the feeling, I would react the same way if someone said they prefer SC to Awake! :lol  I just happen to love WD&DU so much that I think it's just as great as Six Degrees, or even a bit better.

I actually do prefer SC to Awake, and I would very much expect that reaction. :lol
But I still think the comparison of WDADU to SDOIT is more crazy. I can at least understand why people like Awake even though I'm not a fan of it (and obviously I can see why people would like SC). I honestly can't understand how people even take WDADU seriously, let alone compare it to what I consider DT's peak. :dunno:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 31, 2012, 07:10:30 AM
He hits two separate F#s in the Afterlife I included in the compilation!

That level of dedication is admirable! The bootleg I have only has one F#. :(

When all else fails, hit the F#!

As it's the 1st Jan here, I pledge to make this my new year's resolution. I think this will make it an especially special year indeed.

As I'm spending my holidays in Cuba, I'm just making sure I don't rupture my vocal chords.  ;)

Seriously though, I love how James can just randomly pull those F#5s out. My favorite is the version of Another Day in Korea in '99, where he's having an absolutely abysmal night, totally cracking on everything above like a B4...and then he randomly busts out this huge F# at the end of the song. What a guy.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: goo-goo on December 31, 2012, 07:18:56 AM
I feel like MM's kit is excessive. Dont know if he uses it all. Saw him twice in this ADTOE tour and it seemed he only played half of it. I could be wrong though. Also think that the octobans look a bit ridiculous on the top (imo).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on December 31, 2012, 09:56:21 AM
WDADU > SC & BCSL

Why? Because there is nothing on WDADU that makes me roll my eyes or cringe.

 :tup

It doesn't matter to me, whether the transitions on WDADU are less smoother than on later albums. It is an album from a band, which is full of enthusiasm and talent, but not really experience. What do you expect? It couldn't be Images and Words yet, but it is When Dream and Day Unite and it is a fun album to listen every then and now.

That being said, I like SC very much. Probably my 6th favourite studio album.

Repentance is by far the best song on Systematic Chaos.

After ITPOE (I consider it as a one song) and Prophets of War.





Talk about controversial? Ha!

I know some songs are better with JLB from a technical standpoint, but i think (with the exception of the Killing Hand which is better by James 92-93 era) but i think that Charlie is good on other songs. Especially Status Seeker, this might be his best DT performance imo.

YOU ARE... correct. I should look for live versions of WDADU songs from 90s. The Killing Hand from LATM would be a top 3 song, and I love James's vocals in AFIL, from the same album.

But when it comes to WDARU, I prefer Charlie (expect those two). James's voice just doesn't suit Light Fuse and Get Away as well as Charlie's.

And yes, I love the vocals in Status Seeker.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on December 31, 2012, 10:39:41 AM
I don't think it's a coincidence that the two WDADU songs where Charlie sounds solid are Status Seeker and Afterlife, which are the only two he had a hand in writing. If you listen to his solo stuff it's actually pretty decently executed vocally too. He's not a great singer by any stretch, but DT could've framed his voice a lot better than they did.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on December 31, 2012, 11:36:34 AM
WDADU is better than Octavarium, SC, and Black Clouds. It's not even a contest in the case of the first two.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on December 31, 2012, 12:26:25 PM
I also think that Awake is one of their most overrated albums. I can't see why many put that album on their top 3 or even the number 1 spot.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 31, 2012, 01:06:07 PM
I prefer the Mullmuzzler vocals over Scenes'. Especially if he sung him now.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheSilentHam on December 31, 2012, 05:07:27 PM
Apparently controversial:  I enjoy all DT albums equally enough that I can't rank them.  I still listen to them all about equally (except Octavarium because it skips in my car cd player).  I don't skip any tracks, and I don't get bored while listening. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 31, 2012, 05:32:58 PM
Apparently controversial:  I enjoy all DT albums equally enough that I can't rank them.  I still listen to them all about equally (except Octavarium because it skips in my car cd player).  I don't skip any tracks, and I don't get bored while listening.

I play them all as well
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on December 31, 2012, 05:52:21 PM
I prefer the Mullmuzzler vocals over Scenes'.

I think Mullmuzzler 2 has some of James' best performances. But I also think his vocals on SFAM are fantastic.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on December 31, 2012, 06:06:19 PM
1. Images And Words
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. Awake
4. Scenes from a Memory
5. Train Of Thought
6. Octavarium
7. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
8. When Dream And Day Unite
9. Falling Into Infinity
10. Systematic Chaos
11. Black Clouds & Silver Linings

That's where I'd put WDADU. I hardly ever listen to it, and some songs from the bottom three have gotten way more plays than the album or songs themselves, but as I said before, none of the songs on WDADU are bad or make me want to facepalm. And Never Enough isn't so bad, but I'll still only listen to it when I listen to the whole album, so that's why 8VM is so high.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ben_Jamin on December 31, 2012, 07:22:21 PM
I prefer the Mullmuzzler vocals over Scenes'.

I think Mullmuzzler 2 has some of James' best performances. But I also think his vocals on SFAM are fantastic.

I also prefer that music style especially the keys, it doesnt sound like metal DT.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: nikatapi on January 01, 2013, 12:40:31 AM
I'd like to thank the awesomeness that is mr. Wasteland, the compilation he made is f@cking great. Thanks! (I still like CD in WDADU though  :P )
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 01, 2013, 02:49:32 AM
You're welcome nika  :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dellers on January 01, 2013, 04:36:44 AM
Awake is somewhat boring.
New Millennium is a top 2 song from FII.
You Not Me isn't particularly bad.
Burning My Soul is one of the worst songs ever made - regardless of artist/band.
The Glass Prison is the only bad song on SDOIT. The song is like everything from Metallica for me - extremely boring after a minute or two (the intro is cool). It's tiring as well with its stressy tempo and what not.
The best song on Systematic Chaos is Prophets Of War.
The least good song on BC&SL is The Count Of Tuscany.
Bridges In The Sky is my favorite DT song (well, that one may not be very controversial). I really wish the mix sounded a little heavier though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 01, 2013, 06:28:07 AM
I think Mullmuzzler 2 has some of James' best performances. But I also think his vocals on SFAM are fantastic.
:tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ben_Jamin on January 01, 2013, 10:54:35 AM
Dellers I agree...followed closely by ITPOEpt 1 and Repentance
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 01, 2013, 11:17:25 AM
This is definitely a controversial opinion, though I'm not sure if it is on this particular forum or not, but I think that DT's covers of Diary of a Madman, and most of Number of the Beast album, are superior to the originals.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 01, 2013, 11:24:26 AM
I think DT's cover of Stargazer is better than the original, and one of James' best performances.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 01, 2013, 11:29:43 AM
I think DT's cover of Stargazer is better than the original, and one of James' best performances.

Agreed. But the two versions are very different. When I listen to DT's version, it doesn't sound like an old song. If I'd never heard the original, and didn't know it was a cover, I would've guessed that it was written during the BCSL era.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 01, 2013, 11:58:55 AM
I think DT's cover of Stargazer is better than the original, and one of James' best performances.

Agreed. But the two versions are very different. When I listen to DT's version, it doesn't sound like an old song. If I'd never heard the original, and didn't know it was a cover, I would've guessed that it was written during the BCSL era.
... the parts in bold confuse the hell outta me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 01, 2013, 12:11:45 PM
This is definitely a controversial opinion, though I'm not sure if it is on this particular forum or not, but I think that DT's covers of Diary of a Madman, and most of Number of the Beast album, are superior to the originals.

I think DT's cover of Stargazer is better than the original, and one of James' best performances.

You guys are horrible human beings!!!!

Ok, I've calmed down.  I think the originals are sacred and will never be topped (except Number of the Beast...I like it but was never a *huge* Maiden fan)

Diary and Stargazer are classics and no one will ever top them!!!!!   Ok, I've calmed down again.  Both covers are indeed near the original greatness at the very least. 

I think DT's cover of Stargazer is better than the original, and one of James' best performances.

Agreed. But the two versions are very different. When I listen to DT's version, it doesn't sound like an old song. If I'd never heard the original, and didn't know it was a cover, I would've guessed that it was written during the BCSL era.
... the parts in bold confuse the hell outta me.

I think he means that it sounds really fresh, as if it could have been written only a few years ago. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 01, 2013, 12:32:12 PM
I think he means that it sounds really fresh, as if it could have been written only a few years ago.
Oh I didn't mean it like that :D I meant, "damn guys how come that's your opinion?" I do understand tastes are different, these were just too weird for me to comprehend.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 01, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
You guys are horrible human beings!!!!

You know, there must have been a dozen times I wanted to say this to someone in this thread. Then I remember the actual thread title and was forced to suck it up.

Oh I didn't mean it like that :D I meant, "damn guys how come that's your opinion?" I do understand tastes are different, these were just too weird for me to comprehend.

That wasn't even supposed to be the controversial part...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on January 01, 2013, 12:44:29 PM
Yeah, the Stargazer cover does sound fresh--almost strikingly so. It actually took me several listens before I could get into it, because I was so struck by how different the song was from the original--and also how DT sounded different than normal, especially James. But then once I kind of got past how different it was I realized how awesome it was.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on January 01, 2013, 12:54:47 PM
I feel like MM's kit is excessive. Dont know if he uses it all. Saw him twice in this ADTOE tour and it seemed he only played half of it. I could be wrong though. Also think that the octobans look a bit ridiculous on the top (imo).

I don't know if he uses it all either but I never liked the octobans sitting up there, everything looks too over the top for me, kinda like jordans keytar.

From a pure aesthetic standpoint I think MP had better looking kits. His SDOIT kit was just awesome.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 01, 2013, 01:00:26 PM
The only thing I don't like about MM's kit is that you can barely see him. He looks like he's sitting in a little booth, isolated from everyone else. It probably feels different on the actual stage, but from the audience standpoint, he feels really disconnected. That frame almost gives him an "on screen" kind of feel, like he's not really there.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on January 01, 2013, 05:52:24 PM
Awake is somewhat boring.
New Millennium is a top 2 song from FII.
You Not Me isn't particularly bad.
The Glass Prison is the only bad song on SDOIT. The song is like everything from Metallica for me - extremely boring after a minute or two (the intro is cool). It's tiring as well with its stressy tempo and what not.

Quoted what I agree with.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 01, 2013, 10:03:48 PM
This is definitely a controversial opinion, though I'm not sure if it is on this particular forum or not, but I think that DT's covers of Diary of a Madman, and most of Number of the Beast album, are superior to the originals.

The TNOTB covers are very good, although I don't think their cover of Diary was quite as good as the original. The outro is much more powerful and layered in the original, especially with the real strings and choir.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 02, 2013, 03:06:56 AM
I would choose Eve over any other Kevin Moore lyrics'd song which is not called Surrounded.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: nightmare_cinema on January 02, 2013, 06:13:36 AM
I don't think Awake is all that good. Sure it has awesome moments on it, but it's probably in my bottom 2/3 albums by Dream Theater.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 02, 2013, 06:53:25 AM
So many people have negative opinions of Awake, that I'm starting to think it's controversial that I rank Awake as my #1 DT album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 02, 2013, 06:55:08 AM
So many people have negative opinions of Awake, that I'm starting to think it's controversial that I rank Awake as my #1 DT album.
I came to post that :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 02, 2013, 06:56:07 AM
So many people have negative opinions of Awake, that I'm starting to think it's controversial that I rank Awake as my #1 DT album.
I came to post that :biggrin:

:biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on January 02, 2013, 07:05:26 AM
So many people have negative opinions of Awake, that I'm starting to think it's controversial that I rank Awake as my #1 DT album.
I came to post that :biggrin:

Aaaaand thirded, in case of being favourite!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tomislav95 on January 02, 2013, 07:08:20 AM
So many people have negative opinions of Awake, that I'm starting to think it's controversial that I rank Awake as my #1 DT album.
I came to post that :biggrin:

Aaaaand thirded, in case of being favourite!
It's probably my favorite album ever ;)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on January 02, 2013, 07:12:24 AM
So many people have negative opinions of Awake, that I'm starting to think it's controversial that I rank Awake as my #1 DT album.
I came to post that :biggrin:

Aaaaand thirded, in case of being favourite!
It's probably my favorite album ever ;)

People who are Awake arise!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 02, 2013, 07:14:38 AM
I never liked Awake until long, long after it was released.  In fact, I didn't really revisit Awake until Dream Theater started making mediocre albums around the time that Train of Thought came out.  I thought Train of Thought was OK, but a bit one-dimensional.  I had hoped they would move back in more of a Six Degrees direction and instead we got Octavarium, an album with about 3 good tracks on it and the rest being basically crap.  Dream Theater trying to be Muse.  ugh.  Then it got worse with Systematic Chaos.   It was around that time that I went back and started listening more to Awake, mostly out of a sense of desperation for some GOOD Dream Theater music.  And it actually clicked for me. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 02, 2013, 07:20:31 AM
I didn't like Awake until my second year of DT fandom. It's not the easiest album to get into, definitly. It's more of a grower, rather than a striker like Images.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on January 02, 2013, 07:37:46 AM
Awake is the best album.  :hat
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: nightmare_cinema on January 02, 2013, 08:09:38 AM
I've been listening to it for as long as I've loved DT, so about 8 years, and it has just never clicked with me. Some of the songs are great, but very few of them have any emotional draw for me and that tends to be what I look for in music the most. Space Dye Vest is one of my favourite songs of theirs and I often go through phases of listening to it really deeply for a day or two, but on the whole it all just feels very medicore and uninspired :P

I thought it was almost unanimously thought of as one of the best DT albums, so I'm surprised to see people say they've seen it around a lot that Awake isn't too great. Maybe someday my mind will change, that definitely happened with 6DOIT after six years.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 02, 2013, 08:17:48 AM
I belong to the club of Awake fans - my favorite DT album too! :tup
I would choose Eve over any other Kevin Moore lyrics'd song which is not called Surrounded.
Eve is better than Surrounded, and there are a couple of better KM-penned songs than those 2, so I disagree.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 03, 2013, 02:04:29 PM
I absolutely hate the demo and live version of Take Away My Pain but love the album version. 

The demo just sounds sort of generic.  The album version, despite MP's vocal hatred, sounds like an otherworldly and positive look at a painful situation.  It really captures the sorrow yet glimmer of hope of losing a loved one.  Since the lyrics have moments where they finally come to grips that the end is near and they will have to deal with it it remains a positive and melancholic song. 

MP says it is a cheesy ride through Disneyworld but I think it is a hopeful ride through a terribly tragic situation. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: snapple on January 03, 2013, 02:07:20 PM
Awake is the best album.  :hat

I'm with this guy. Awake is my favorite album of all time. I'm scared to know how much I've listened to it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 03, 2013, 02:29:05 PM
Awake is the best album.  :hat

I'm with this guy. Awake is my favorite album of all time. I'm scared to know how much I've listened to it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 03, 2013, 02:44:50 PM
It's my second-borderline-third favourite album. I hold with those who favor Images, but I think I know enough of me to say that as an album Awake is also great, and would suffice. :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on January 03, 2013, 03:44:23 PM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 03, 2013, 03:57:23 PM
It's one song off the album.
And I love it AND YOU CAN TELL YOUR STEPFATHER I SAID SO!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 03, 2013, 04:01:02 PM
Why is the camera constantly flying into some trucks  :rollin

Also, they cut the best part of the song, damn.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 03, 2013, 04:04:16 PM
Why is the camera constantly flying into some trucks  :rollin

Also, they cut the best part of the song, damn.
Because JP is angry. So angry he needs to wear shades so you do not see the anger in his eyes. Hey, they're better than JLB's :facepalm:

Yeah that kind of sucks - that part "justifies" the song. I wish I could express myself better :lol

Would like to hear that demo of Kevin singing it MP talked about if it exists still somewhere. I know it doesn't because the world hates me. :mora:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 03, 2013, 04:10:13 PM
Milena, you know better than me that MP wastes nothing. The demos is there, in his vault, in our wishes...  ::)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: toro on January 03, 2013, 05:39:58 PM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:
More badass than anything they did on 8VM, SC and BC&SL.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Elite on January 03, 2013, 05:41:30 PM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:

it's almost the worst song on the album. Like that means anything; Awake is still a top 10 album ever for me and the last very good one they did.

this thread was for controversial opinions right?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on January 03, 2013, 06:35:58 PM
I always wondered if this is controversial or not: all of DT's earlier album covers (up until SFAM, which is great) are cheesy and/or downright ugly. Those that come after SFAM are nothing to write home about either, which is a shame, considering how many great album covers the prog genre produced over the decades.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 03, 2013, 06:48:26 PM
Lie is a great song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on January 03, 2013, 06:50:15 PM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:
More badass than anything they did on 8VM, SC and BC&SL.

Not sure if serious.

For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:

it's almost the worst song on the album. Like that means anything; Awake is still a top 10 album ever for me and the last very good one they did.

this thread was for controversial opinions right?

There's two problems with Awake:
Lie
SDV

Great moments are definitely Erotomania and 6:00. And there's a cowbell moment in CIAW. More cowbell please. Other than that, it's an average album at best with JLB just screaming most of the time.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: toro on January 03, 2013, 07:26:16 PM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:
More badass than anything they did on 8VM, SC and BC&SL.

Not sure if serious.

Completely serious. But I guess people with the "EPIC LONG SONGS AND TIME SIGNATURES CHANGES" or "Metal" mentality are always against the relative simplicity, and the metal/not so metal approach of Awake.

Awake is most definetly their hardest album to get into, but once you do. You get to love it. Awake and I&W were the first DT albums I got and I hated Awake at first, i felt like Scarred was akward and SDV was bad. But now, Awake is almost the only DT album I listen religously and Scarred is a top 3 song for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 03, 2013, 10:32:10 PM
Completely serious. But I guess people with the "EPIC LONG SONGS AND TIME SIGNATURES CHANGES" or "Metal" mentality are always against the relative simplicity, and the metal/not so metal approach of Awake.

Yeah, but at the same time, hating on long songs and time signature changes just for the sake of principle, or because the fans of those songs might be a little overzealous isn't right either.

But Lie is awesome, and the music video is actually pretty damn cool.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 1neeto on January 03, 2013, 10:35:37 PM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:
More badass than anything they did on 8VM, SC and BC&SL.

Not sure if serious.

Completely serious. But I guess people with the "EPIC LONG SONGS AND TIME SIGNATURES CHANGES" or "Metal" mentality are always against the relative simplicity, and the metal/not so metal approach of Awake.

Awake is most definetly their hardest album to get into, but once you do. You get to love it. Awake and I&W were the first DT albums I got and I hated Awake at first, i felt like Scarred was akward and SDV was bad. But now, Awake is almost the only DT album I listen religously and Scarred is a top 3 song for me.

Come on man, saying that Lie is better than anything from those albums is quite the stretch. And BTW some of my favorite DT songs are the more straight forward ones.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 03, 2013, 10:45:51 PM
You guys are gonna love where Lie ends up on my Top 50. Hint: (spoilerz) I like it more than any song from Octavarium, Systematic Chaos, and Black Clouds.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 04, 2013, 12:08:30 AM
They say a picture says 1000 words, so I'll go with that-

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/themirrorvslie.jpg)

The Mirror is a healthy human being, and Lie is a chestburster that pops out of nowhere and completely kills it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on January 04, 2013, 12:09:59 AM
 :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 04, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
Oh yeah, Lie is better than The Mirror too.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 04, 2013, 03:16:30 AM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:
More badass than anything they did on 8VM, SC and BC&SL.

Not sure if serious.

For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:

it's almost the worst song on the album. Like that means anything; Awake is still a top 10 album ever for me and the last very good one they did.

this thread was for controversial opinions right?

There's two problems with Awake:
Lie
SDV

Great moments are definitely Erotomania and 6:00. And there's a cowbell moment in CIAW. More cowbell please. Other than that, it's an average album at best with JLB just screaming most of the time.
I... I... don't know what to say...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 04, 2013, 03:20:34 AM
Yes... I don't understand. Does the performance on Voices, The Silent Man, Space Dye Vest look like screaming to you?  :o

I'm sorry if I come out as a bit blunt, but I thought that there was a general consensus that Awake showcases the best studio performance by James.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on January 04, 2013, 03:28:51 AM
Yes... I don't understand. Does the performance on Voices, The Silent Man, Space Dye Vest look like screaming to you?  :o

I'm sorry if I come out as a bit blunt, but I thought that there was a general consensus that Awake showcases the best studio performance by James.

Not to mention Innocence Faded, which is my personal favorite of all his performances.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Elite on January 04, 2013, 03:52:03 AM
Yes... I don't understand. Does the performance on Voices, The Silent Man, Space Dye Vest look like screaming to you?  :o

I'm sorry if I come out as a bit blunt, but I thought that there was a general consensus that Awake showcases the best studio performance by James.

Not to mention Innocence Faded, which is my personal favorite of all his performances.

And a top 10 DT song at that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on January 04, 2013, 06:40:33 AM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:

Oh thanks, I hadn't seen that before. Lie is a top 3 HEAVY DT song for me.

Milena, gif from 4:16-4:17. Please now  :smiley:.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 04, 2013, 06:50:00 AM
Milena, gif from 4:16-4:17. Please now  :smiley:.
It's on the list :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: toro on January 04, 2013, 09:09:57 AM
Completely serious. But I guess people with the "EPIC LONG SONGS AND TIME SIGNATURES CHANGES" or "Metal" mentality are always against the relative simplicity, and the metal/not so metal approach of Awake.

Yeah, but at the same time, hating on long songs and time signature changes just for the sake of principle, or because the fans of those songs might be a little overzealous isn't right either.

Where did I say that I hate long songs? I even professed my love for ACOS in this same thread. I just don't like when songs are made long for the sake of being long like ANTR and TMOLS.
Come on man, saying that Lie is better than anything from those albums is quite the stretch.
BADASS =/= GOOD

Hey you said badass. But yes, Lie is definetly more badass than songs about, Vampires, Dark Masters, MUH FANS SAID THINGS, a car crash were everyone survived and a Count.

And Lie is at least better than all of the singles from those 3 albums.

They say a picture says 1000 words, so I'll go with that-

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/themirrorvslie.jpg)

The Mirror is a healthy human being, and Lie is a chestburster that pops out of nowhere and completely kills it.
BUT BUT BUT.... THE REPRISE OF THE MIRROR AND THE ENDING ARE AMAZING.
RIGHT GUYS?
RIGHT? 
:-[
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on January 04, 2013, 09:46:56 AM
I absolutely hate the demo and live version of Take Away My Pain but love the album version. 

The demo just sounds sort of generic.  The album version, despite MP's vocal hatred, sounds like an otherworldly and positive look at a painful situation.  It really captures the sorrow yet glimmer of hope of losing a loved one.  Since the lyrics have moments where they finally come to grips that the end is near and they will have to deal with it it remains a positive and melancholic song. 

MP says it is a cheesy ride through Disneyworld but I think it is a hopeful ride through a terribly tragic situation.

Agreed, for the most part.  I don't hate the demo or live versions, but I do agree that they are vastly inferior to the album version, especially the demo, which plods along in a painfully slow manner.  I was flabbergasted when I first heard that Portnoy hated the album version, but it quickly became apparent that he doesn't like any version on FII that didn't end up the way he wanted it.  How dare someone else know better?! :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 04, 2013, 11:14:21 AM
They say a picture says 1000 words, so I'll go with that-

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/themirrorvslie.jpg)

The Mirror is a healthy human being, and Lie is a chestburster that pops out of nowhere and completely kills it.

I get what you're going for, here, but chestbursters are fucking awesome, and so is Lie. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 04, 2013, 11:16:11 AM
Where did I say that I hate long songs? I even professed my love for ACOS in this same thread. I just don't like when songs are made long for the sake of being long like ANTR and TMOLS.
Come on man, saying that Lie is better than anything from those albums is quite the stretch.
BADASS =/= GOOD

Hey you said badass. But yes, Lie is definetly more badass than songs about, Vampires, Dark Masters, MUH FANS SAID THINGS, a car crash were everyone survived and a Count.

And Lie is at least better than all of the singles from those 3 albums.


Well, since we're doing controversial opinions, I happen to disagree about that last statement.

Forsaken > Lie
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 04, 2013, 11:21:31 AM
They say a picture says 1000 words, so I'll go with that-

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/themirrorvslie.jpg)

The Mirror is a healthy human being, and Lie is a chestburster that pops out of nowhere and completely kills it.

I get what you're going for, here, but chestbursters are fucking awesome, and so is Lie. 

That is true. But it's a metaphor, so just think of the effect, rather than the badassery of a little alien dude popping out of a dude's torso and ripping him to shreds with blood spray.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 04, 2013, 11:23:28 AM
I'll try, Blob, I'll try.

And I'll probably watch Alien later.

Then possibly Spaceballs. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 04, 2013, 12:26:46 PM

That is true. But it's a metaphor, so just think of the effect, rather than the badassery of a little alien dude popping out of a dude's torso and ripping him to shreds with blood spray.

Sorry, but the only metaphor I see in that picture is that The Mirror was something boring and ordinary, and Lie made it awesome.

Which isn't true, mind you. I think The Mirror is pretty awesome. But Lie does nothing to diminish it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on January 04, 2013, 12:41:43 PM
The Mirror and Lie being back to back only makes both songs that much better.  Both are damn good songs already, but the musical link between them is great, and just adds to the overall awesomeness of Awake. :tup :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kirksnosehair on January 04, 2013, 01:15:01 PM
^that's not a very controversial opinion, bro  :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on January 04, 2013, 03:06:46 PM
The Mirror and Lie are both the best pair, especially live. Close behind, Wait For Sleep and Learning To Live.

And I really don't like One Last Time - The Dance Of Eternity pair. Don't care TDOE but OLT works so well alone.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 04, 2013, 04:22:10 PM
Don't care TDOE

As far as I'm concerned, that's a damn controversial opinion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on January 04, 2013, 04:59:22 PM
Good. It seems I use this thread to good advantage.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 05, 2013, 03:28:09 PM
They say a picture says 1000 words, so I'll go with that-

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/themirrorvslie.jpg)

The Mirror is a healthy human being, and Lie is a chestburster that pops out of nowhere and completely kills it.
BUT BUT BUT.... THE REPRISE OF THE MIRROR AND THE ENDING ARE AMAZING.
RIGHT GUYS?
RIGHT? 
:-[
So, it's kind of like a reverse chestburster. :justjen
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 06, 2013, 12:25:19 AM
The Mirror and Lie together = :2metal: :2metal: :2metal: :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

The Dance of Eternity is one of those DT songs that is cool at first, but gets boring after you've heard it multiple times.
Would like to hear that demo of Kevin singing it MP talked about if it exists still somewhere. I know it doesn't because the world hates me. :mora:
Me too! The vocal melodies are very Kevin-ish, and I could imagine his voice fitting this song, but obviously only if he sang the chorus, the second verse and other high parts an octave lower.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on January 06, 2013, 12:59:32 AM
^that's not a very controversial opinion, bro  :)
Well, I usually skip both of them.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 06, 2013, 04:02:41 AM
The Mirror and Lie together = :2metal: :2metal: :2metal: :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

The Dance of Eternity is one of those DT songs that is cool at first, but gets boring after you've heard it multiple times.
Would like to hear that demo of Kevin singing it MP talked about if it exists still somewhere. I know it doesn't because the world hates me. :mora:
Me too! The vocal melodies are very Kevin-ish, and I could imagine his voice fitting this song, but obviously only if he sang the chorus, the second verse and other high parts an octave lower.
Quoted for absolute agreement.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: puppyonacid on January 07, 2013, 09:58:37 AM
The Answer Lies Within is a dreadful for song and would be for any band

BC&SL is DTs worst album - but Nightmare to remember is still a cool song up to the MP growly bit

FII is an awesome album and I prefer the songs on it to the demo versions - I also think it sounds immense mixwise

I cant watch Scenes from New York anymore as the graphics date it horrendously and I think its flat soundwise.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 07, 2013, 10:13:28 AM
I cant watch Scenes from New York anymore as the graphics date it horrendously.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 07, 2013, 10:15:05 AM
I still watch it and love it. I chuckle at the Mexican carpet graphics though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 07, 2013, 10:16:24 AM
FII is an awesome album and I prefer the songs on it to the demo versions - I also think it sounds immense mixwise


Most would say the same thing about the mix. It's still awesome.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 07, 2013, 10:20:20 AM
I still watch it and love it. I chuckle at the Mexican carpet graphics though.

That is an insult to Mexican carpets everywhere.

Unless it's a Mexican carpet laced with heroin. Then it's probably about right.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 07, 2013, 11:37:05 AM
1. Images And Words
2. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
3. Awake
4. Scenes from a Memory
5. Train Of Thought
6. Octavarium
7. When Dream And Day Unite
8. A Dramatic Turn Of Events
9. Falling Into Infinity
10. Systematic Chaos
11. Black Clouds & Silver Linings

Just an update. WDADU moved up again.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on January 07, 2013, 04:37:32 PM
Images is definitely in the lower half of their albums quality-wise.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: orcus116 on January 07, 2013, 04:50:14 PM
;_;
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 07, 2013, 05:45:12 PM
Images is definitely in the lower half of their albums quality-wise.

That's a new one.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on January 07, 2013, 06:23:35 PM
For all you Awake fans. Bad ass right... right  :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD7OdyY1js4

:barf:
More badass than anything they did on 8VM, SC and BC&SL.

Not sure if serious.

Completely serious. But I guess people with the "EPIC LONG SONGS AND TIME SIGNATURES CHANGES" or "Metal" mentality are always against the relative simplicity, and the metal/not so metal approach of Awake.

Awake is most definetly their hardest album to get into, but once you do. You get to love it. Awake and I&W were the first DT albums I got and I hated Awake at first, i felt like Scarred was akward and SDV was bad. But now, Awake is almost the only DT album I listen religously and Scarred is a top 3 song for me.
Haha, funny case for me. I heard Awake second last (WDADU being last, not including AtDoE) out of all of their albums and it was my favourite from first listen. :lol My rankings have change drastically since then, but it's still probably like second favourite.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 07, 2013, 09:16:59 PM
I cant watch Scenes from New York anymore as the graphics date it horrendously.

I thought it looked relatively amateurish when it was first released in 2001.  I never have really minded it though.  With anything, movies, concert dvds, etc...they are like a time capsule and i can almost always look past that stuff. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Man-Erg on January 08, 2013, 05:29:25 PM
Ok, here's one, though it's more of a fact:
I really have only listened to WtDaDU (I detest it) and I&W (4/5 stars) and I'm not really DT fan... I've joined mainly because of the awesome community.

But I'd like to explore DT further.
And to throw in something more controversial: Under a Glass Moon sucks and is very boring.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 08, 2013, 05:39:56 PM
What just happened?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 08, 2013, 07:16:38 PM
Ok, here's one, though it's more of a fact:
I really have only listened to WtDaDU (I detest it) and I&W (4/5 stars) and I'm not really DT fan... I've joined mainly because of the awesome community.

But I'd like to explore DT further.
And to throw in something more controversial: Under a Glass Moon sucks and is very boring.

Can't go wrong with most of their albums, although I've particularly enjoyed Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and A Dramatic Turn of Events. (I'd shamelessly plug Scenes from a Memory as well, but I don't have that one.)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 09, 2013, 07:44:34 AM
Images is definitely in the lower half of their albums quality-wise.
Ok, here's one, though it's more of a fact:
I really have only listened to WtDaDU (I detest it) and I&W (4/5 stars) and I'm not really DT fan... I've joined mainly because of the awesome community.

But I'd like to explore DT further.
And to throw in something more controversial: Under a Glass Moon sucks and is very boring.
I think we can already declare this the most controversial page of the thread!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 09, 2013, 08:14:21 AM
Erg: If you're looking for something a little different, try Falling Into Infinity. It gets a lot of flak because Mike Portnoy doesn't like it, but it's a very good album, and in many places DT have reigned themselves in on the album and practiced some restraint, which works pretty good. It's certainly a very enjoyable album (albeit with some duds, namely New Millenium, You Not Me and Just Let Me Breathe).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Man-Erg on January 09, 2013, 08:16:49 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, I think I'll just work my way up from Images and Words.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 09, 2013, 08:19:50 AM
You would do well to go directly into Awake. It's their third album, and it's very interesting to reflect on the evolution of the sound as well as the lyrical and musical identity of the band. Plus, it's definitely a great album, widely considered among the three best.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 09, 2013, 08:51:08 AM
Yeah, you can't go wrong with Awake.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Prog Snob on January 09, 2013, 08:58:03 AM
Awake is definitely the next CD you should check out.  Voices and Lifting Shadows off a Dream are lyrically astounding.  All of the lyrics are brilliant but the aforementioned always impressed me most.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 09, 2013, 09:36:15 AM
Ok, here's one, though it's more of a fact:
I really have only listened to WtDaDU (I detest it) and I&W (4/5 stars) and I'm not really DT fan... I've joined mainly because of the awesome community.

I don't like Dream Theater that much, but they have a forum and a community, so what the fuck.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 09, 2013, 10:15:31 AM
Ok, here's one, though it's more of a fact:
I really have only listened to WtDaDU (I detest it) and I&W (4/5 stars) and I'm not really DT fan... I've joined mainly because of the awesome community.

I don't like Dream Theater that much, but they have a forum and a community, so what the fuck.

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/126/84959143.gif)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 09, 2013, 10:17:29 AM
Ok, here's one, though it's more of a fact:
I really have only listened to WtDaDU (I detest it) and I&W (4/5 stars) and I'm not really DT fan... I've joined mainly because of the awesome community.

I don't like Dream Theater that much, but they have a forum and a community, so what the fuck.

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/126/84959143.gif)
Should I siggie that one so that you can siggie quote me as well? :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Nekov on January 09, 2013, 10:58:22 AM
JLB has always been the weakest member in the band and is very much overrated.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 09, 2013, 11:07:23 AM
Rage.

:neverusethis:

But seriously, I'd say he's underrated. A lot of casual fans and non-fans pretty much hate his guts. I'd say this forum has a fair assessment of him at least 80% of the time.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 09, 2013, 11:14:02 AM
WRATH

:neverusethis: (my first reaction was RAGE, but Milena stole it :D )


I agree with that she said. Outside this community there is not a lot of people who is really in love with him, and to a certain extent I can understand them, as casual fans don't really have access to his best live performances (which are of course not the one that were officially recorded).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 09, 2013, 11:36:43 AM
Overall, I'd say JLB is just the right amount of rated here. We get the occasional person who thinks he's a God, and we get the occasional person who thinks he's awful, neither of which I believe is true, but overall I think most people are pretty honest about his strengths and weaknesses.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 09, 2013, 11:38:34 AM
It seems like most people besides diehard DT fans don't like him. It makes me sad to see so much hate thrown his way, because he's one of my favorite singers (probably 2nd favorite, behind Steve Walsh).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on January 09, 2013, 12:09:31 PM
It is true that non DT fans dislike him...

However I think this is mostly due to them following a trend of hating on LaBrie as it automatically comes up whenever DT is mentioned.

I've never had a problem with LaBries voice.

It doesnt sound like your typical metal singer and THATS why I like it,

It doesnt sound like some 6ft 6 body builder with hair down to his knees with one foot on the monitor giving the crowd the middle finger and saying fuck every other word.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 09, 2013, 12:48:55 PM
I like that about him. He's not a traditional metal singer. He presents himself with a great deal more class and finesse.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on January 09, 2013, 02:53:40 PM
And you don't get the feeling that it's all machismo and front.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 09, 2013, 04:10:16 PM
Exactly.

o/
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on January 09, 2013, 04:41:02 PM
Some of listeners are definitely precarious when JLB and his voice matter. When they watch his performances from 1990-94 era they fall in love right away. They think he is God in that era but some unfortunate circumstances happened and changed JLB's life in some extent. This include his voice. True that his voice has never sounded same, that wild and rough. But he is still James LaBrie. And when some of fans consider his actual voice (including 95-02 era) they turn into vocal expert and criticize him unfairly like his is the weakest link of the band, he always sounds awful.. ect. Well I'm the one, thinks that his 2010-2012 era is his best in this condition.

The thing is about him not the wild voice or random screams which he used to do. His timbre is unique. That's why I love him and I'm sure most of you love him for that reason. There is no James LaBrie out there. He can have off nights but who doesn't? Saying that he is not my cup of tea is completely understandable but saying that he is not a good singer is somewhat odd knocking.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on January 09, 2013, 04:47:28 PM


The thing is about him not the wild voice or random screams which he used to do. His timbre is unique. That's why I love him and I'm sure most of you love him for that reason. There is no James LaBrie out there. He can have off nights but who doesn't? Saying that he is not my cup of tea is completely understandable but saying that he is not a good singer is somewhat odd knocking.


There is no spoon?


FWIW I don't find too many flaws in his voice.  Though I think his work on Images in Words (Another Day specifically) really shines. I don't recall many other tracks SFAM and onward with the range he sings in Another Day.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PetFish on January 09, 2013, 04:56:45 PM
My only controversial opinion with LaBrie, and it's a big one, is that he looks like he'd rather be anywhere else than on stage.

He looks soooooooo bored and uninterested.  He's the fucking Front Man and he needs to fucking OWN the stage and the crowd.  Without actually saying it, he needs to say to the crowd "we're fucking Dream Theater and we're gonna fucking OWN you tonight".  Instead he finishes his lyric, looks down and walks off stage, then comes back looking like he just woke up from a nap or something.  He's the only one who has true freedom on stage to go anywhere and do anything while performing.  He's not bad for the first few songs then he just starts slowly strolling around and zzzzzzzzzzz....

I'm not saying for him to be a Jon Bon Jovi or a Freddie Mercury, but come on, we're excited to be here and for a lot of people it's their first DT show or maybe they only see DT once every few years.  OWN ME, JAMES, ROX MY SOX OFF!

I was hoping with pseudo-Front Man MP gone he'd step up but he really didn't.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on January 09, 2013, 04:58:01 PM


I'm not saying for him to be a Jon Bon Jovi

So you want him to suck even more?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 09, 2013, 04:59:20 PM
I'm not saying for him to be a Jon Bon Jovi or a Freddie Mercury, but come on, we're excited to be here and for a lot of people it's their first DT show or maybe they only see DT once every few years. 

For what it's worth, I saw DT for the first time on the ADToE tour, and I thought James was fine.  Certainly not the most engaging frontman in history, but not boring, either. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on January 09, 2013, 05:02:28 PM
PetFish, yes I agree some of your points.

But this more than he names himself as a fucking frotman and I'm sure he knows that but you know this band has been had 2 frotmen for years. I believe this case limited his freedom on the stage, even from the beginning. I've never seen him completely free frontman until 2011-12 era.

From what I watch on youtube or read comments about the recent performances he fucking owned the stage and crowd.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 09, 2013, 05:04:36 PM
Here's my controversial opinion: stage presence is overrated. For me, the music is the important part. I don't care if the guys on stage are sorta boring as long as they play well. Robert Fripp plays sitting down and looks like an old grump, but he's a phenomenal musician. Would I prefer engaging performers? Of course, but it's not that big a deal.

But anyway, James does fine.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SystematicThought on January 09, 2013, 05:05:06 PM
I do wish JLB would spend some more time on stage. But there really isn't a whole lot he can do, but maybe engage the audience some more before walking off
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Nekov on January 09, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
Don't get me wrong, I realize that he is a very good singer but I'd love to hear him sing low tones a lot more. I just feel like the guy knows he's really good at something and just sticks to it instead of trying to go for new horizons
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on January 09, 2013, 07:53:03 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, I think I'll just work my way up from Images and Words.
Neat username. VdGG used to be my favourite band back when I was a prog nerd. My tastes branched out a lot, but I still love them to death. :heart :heart
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 09, 2013, 09:20:38 PM
Don't get me wrong, I realize that he is a very good singer but I'd love to hear him sing low tones a lot more. I just feel like the guy knows he's really good at something and just sticks to it instead of trying to go for new horizons

Seriously? I feel like on ADTOE, there were by far not enough high parts from him. He just stayed in a relatively comfortable mid-range. I wanted to hear more high vocals like at the end of This Is The Life.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 10, 2013, 01:23:13 AM
About frontmanship - I'm pretty sure not even Bruce Dickinson would stay on stage stomping around if Maiden were playing five minute solos :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 10, 2013, 02:18:39 AM
About frontmanship - I'm pretty sure not even Bruce Dickinson would stay on stage stomping around if Maiden were playing five minute solos :lol
I think he remains mainly stationary because, as we all know, he is very into professionalism, and as far as properly breathing while singing is concerned, you can't exactly do that while running and jumping around on stage while you're trying to sing. I think he just remains stationary because he wants to give his best performance vocally. Just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 10, 2013, 04:04:41 AM
Here's my controversial opinion: stage presence is overrated.
Would I prefer engaging performers? Of course, but it's not that big a deal.
Agreed. I'd rather see a band with an excellent singer who stands still for 1,5 hours instead of a band with a shitty vocalist who runs around the stage all the time. However, connecting with the crowd is an important thing IMO - not necessarily moving on the stage, but interacting with the audience and paying attention to them.

Also, if James' stage presence isn't good enough, then what should he do during the instrumental section of Metropolis or Outcry - do the court jester dance for 5 minutes?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 10, 2013, 07:10:02 AM
He should get a team of backup dancers and shuffle, jerk, dougie, and gangnam style for five minutes in 13/8.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 10, 2013, 07:14:08 AM
His stage presence is underrated. Wait for the DVD and see what he brings. Of course you can't expect him to yell "Sing for me, Buenos Aires" in the middle of Wait For Sleep!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 10, 2013, 07:25:46 AM
And with the ASHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEESSSSSSS!! *G5*
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scotto123 on January 17, 2013, 08:28:28 PM
My only controversial opinion with LaBrie, and it's a big one, is that he looks like he'd rather be anywhere else than on stage.

He looks soooooooo bored and uninterested.  He's the fucking Front Man and he needs to fucking OWN the stage and the crowd.  Without actually saying it, he needs to say to the crowd "we're fucking Dream Theater and we're gonna fucking OWN you tonight".  Instead he finishes his lyric, looks down and walks off stage, then comes back looking like he just woke up from a nap or something.  He's the only one who has true freedom on stage to go anywhere and do anything while performing.  He's not bad for the first few songs then he just starts slowly strolling around and zzzzzzzzzzz....

I'm not saying for him to be a Jon Bon Jovi or a Freddie Mercury, but come on, we're excited to be here and for a lot of people it's their first DT show or maybe they only see DT once every few years.  OWN ME, JAMES, ROX MY SOX OFF!

I was hoping with pseudo-Front Man MP gone he'd step up but he really didn't.

I completely disagree with you. Everytime I've seen DT live (5 times), he's been energetic every time. Sure, he's no Bruce Dickinson in terms of energy, but that's not his thing. JLB focuses on giving people a good show, and that's what he does.

As for my "controversial" opinion in regards to DT, I would have to say that they really need an outside producer this time around. I believe they need someone to give them a different perspective. However, hopefully with MM now in the writing fold, that will happen. I think the main detriment to their writing process since SDOIT, was the formula they operated within. The whole go into the studio and write with no pre determined ideas or riffs.

Also, I think they shouldn't be afraid to go against the grain again. ADTOE was a step in right direction after the abomination of BCSL, but I think they should write together more. I remember a quote from JP stating that he was upset when he couldn't write all the lyrics to an album. Which is kind of weird. I think a band should be inspired by each other's ideas.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 17, 2013, 08:34:56 PM
Also, I think they shouldn't be afraid to go against the grain again. ADTOE was a step in right direction after the abomination of BCSL

I don't understand this.  I personally prefer ADToE, but I would say between the two of them, BC&SL was the one that went against the grain. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scotto123 on January 17, 2013, 08:39:05 PM
Also, I think they shouldn't be afraid to go against the grain again. ADTOE was a step in right direction after the abomination of BCSL

I don't understand this.  I personally prefer ADToE, but I would say between the two of them, BC&SL was the one that went against the grain.

Fair enough. BCSL to me was just kind of "eh" and uninteresting. The lyrics were very uninteresting and uninspired IMO. But that's just me. Everyone's tastes are subjective.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 18, 2013, 07:49:37 AM
Also, I think they shouldn't be afraid to go against the grain again. ADTOE was a step in right direction after the abomination of BCSL

I don't understand this.  I personally prefer ADToE, but I would say between the two of them, BC&SL was the one that went against the grain. 

So very true. ADTOE is the least "going against the grain" album they've probably ever written.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dreamer81 on January 18, 2013, 09:51:02 AM
ADTOE was definitely a step in the right direction, SC and BC&SL were soooo disappointing..
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on January 18, 2013, 09:59:19 AM
ADTOE was definitely a step in the right direction, SC and BC&SL were soooo disappointing..

Funny. I think SC is the last interesting disc they put out.  Never could get into BC&SL or ADToE!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SystematicThought on January 18, 2013, 10:03:56 AM
I remember a quote from JP stating that he was upset when he couldn't write all the lyrics to an album. Which is kind of weird.
I remember JLB saying that he had a few other lyrics for ADTOE but they were rejected. I don't remember JP saying that though
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 18, 2013, 10:11:50 AM
I remember a quote from JP stating that he was upset when he couldn't write all the lyrics to an album. Which is kind of weird.
I remember JLB saying that he had a few other lyrics for ADTOE but they were rejected. I don't remember JP saying that though

Yes, it's the first time I hear of that myself. Ah, I seem to remember that James submitted lyrics for Outcry. Can anyone confirm this or is it a fake memory of mine?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on January 18, 2013, 10:18:56 AM
Funny. I think SC is the last interesting disc they put out.  Never could get into BC&SL or ADToE!

Well, that's certainly a controversial opinion. But not for me. SC rules!  :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: marlencrabapple on January 18, 2013, 11:50:48 AM
I think that BC&SL had the best overall vocals since Awake, and ADTOE was a huge step back. It was the way that he pronounced words and put emphasis on certain things on BC&SL that made me like it so much. That was something that was missing from most of their post-Awake albums.

And on the front man matter: James should just start dancing again.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jdprsaga on January 18, 2013, 01:27:11 PM
first ... I have to jump in into the jlb controversy wagon..

not that i don't like it at all, but all my friends (non are prog fans) say they can't listen to dream theater cause labrie voice is too annoying, specially live.

Second,  i would like one album with less epic, metal, wankery. more hard rock oriented prog  a la FII lines in the sand/trial of tears. getting tire of the wankery, we all know they can wank all day long so epicly, fast and energetic that they can go back in time creating parallel universes with new versions of wankery.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 18, 2013, 01:40:27 PM
I remember a quote from JP stating that he was upset when he couldn't write all the lyrics to an album. Which is kind of weird.
I remember JLB saying that he had a few other lyrics for ADTOE but they were rejected. I don't remember JP saying that though

Yes, it's the first time I hear of that myself. Ah, I seem to remember that James submitted lyrics for Outcry. Can anyone confirm this or is it a fake memory of mine?
I definitely saw this interview. It wasn't a control freak type thing though. He just simply said he would love to be able to write lyrics to every song on an album one day. He said every album he thinks he'll be able to but then someone will say they want to do lyrics for a song and he'll be like "damn". haha. I can tell he just wants to do it for the self satisfaction. As a musician, I totally understand that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 18, 2013, 01:42:21 PM
He just simply said he would love to be able to write lyrics to every song on an album one day. He said every album he thinks he'll be able to but then someone will say they want to do lyrics for a song and he'll be like "damn".
We need a Polite Pirate James meme :lol :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 18, 2013, 01:51:16 PM
Well, if he has a coherent story to develope through the songs, or otherwise interwoven lyrics, I think the other would be glad to step down for an album, right? I would for sure. But if that's not the case I would rather have the others contribute as well, and actually step up to even up the lyrics count within each album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 18, 2013, 05:24:05 PM
He just simply said he would love to be able to write lyrics to every song on an album one day. He said every album he thinks he'll be able to but then someone will say they want to do lyrics for a song and he'll be like "damn".
We need a Polite Pirate James meme :lol :lol
I was actually talking about JP. hahaha.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 18, 2013, 05:44:05 PM
I remember a quote from JP stating that he was upset when he couldn't write all the lyrics to an album. Which is kind of weird.
I remember JLB saying that he had a few other lyrics for ADTOE but they were rejected. I don't remember JP saying that though

Yes, it's the first time I hear of that myself. Ah, I seem to remember that James submitted lyrics for Outcry. Can anyone confirm this or is it a fake memory of mine?

I heard James had submitted lyrics for possibly 3 other songs but that was from a guy that read it in a foreign interview and I never did get to confirm that myself.  Thats kind of disappointing if its true. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 19, 2013, 01:16:23 AM
JM will probably continue the tradition of writing lyrics for one song per album, but I hope James will get to write more to make things more varied.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 19, 2013, 01:56:40 AM
He just simply said he would love to be able to write lyrics to every song on an album one day. He said every album he thinks he'll be able to but then someone will say they want to do lyrics for a song and he'll be like "damn".
We need a Polite Pirate James meme :lol :lol
I was actually talking about JP. hahaha.
* WE NEED A POLITE BEAR JOHN MEME. THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 19, 2013, 02:10:32 AM
He just simply said he would love to be able to write lyrics to every song on an album one day. He said every album he thinks he'll be able to but then someone will say they want to do lyrics for a song and he'll be like "damn".
We need a Polite Pirate James meme :lol :lol
I was actually talking about JP. hahaha.
* WE NEED A POLITE BEAR JOHN MEME. THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.

(http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jhonvictor on January 19, 2013, 05:21:00 AM
OTBOA/BAI are the best DT songs since 2005.
Constant Motion is AWESOME, so is Dark Eternal Night.
Shattered Fortress is a GOOD song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on January 19, 2013, 06:00:59 AM
first ... I have to jump in into the jlb controversy wagon..

not that i don't like it at all, but all my friends (non are prog fans) say they can't listen to dream theater cause labrie voice is too annoying, specially live.


I was the same way for a while but then JLB's voice grew on me and it wasn't so bad, until I saw him live. I saw him live the first time during the QR and DT tour in 2003 and man, I thought I was listening to a chipmunk, and it felt like I was the only one, like I was taking crazy pills or something.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 19, 2013, 06:04:00 AM
first ... I have to jump in into the jlb controversy wagon..

not that i don't like it at all, but all my friends (non are prog fans) say they can't listen to dream theater cause labrie voice is too annoying, specially live.


I was the same way for a while but then JLB's voice grew on me and it wasn't so bad, until I saw him live. I saw him live the first time during the QR and DT tour in 2003 and man, I thought I was listening to a chipmunk, and it felt like I was the only one, like I was taking crazy pills or something.

2003 had many quite iffy performances, but you have to understand him, he had just started his vocal restyle that ultimately succeeded in saving his career.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Yazman on January 19, 2013, 06:38:49 AM
I guess my one controversial DT opinion is that Pull Me Under really isn't that great. While I can't say there are any DT songs I don't like, Pull Me Under is one of my least liked ones. It's cool and all but I don't get what the big fuss is. It's nothing special.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 19, 2013, 06:45:50 AM
I guess my one controversial DT opinion is that Pull Me Under really isn't that great. While I can't say there are any DT songs I don't like, Pull Me Under is one of my least liked ones. It's cool and all but I don't get what the big fuss is. It's nothing special.

I think the big fuss is mostly that it happened to be the "hit" of the album, and is a more accessible song for the average listener.
I don't think it's overrated here compared to other songs from IaW though. I think it's a great song, but I'd only rank it middle or lower half of the album (which is no shame for such a consistently good album), and I'm sure a lot of people here feel the same. Metropolis and LTL are consistently much more highly regarded, as are probably other songs on the album like TTT and UAGM.
I don't know, it can be hard to gauge with IaW, since every song seems to get its fair share of love.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ZKX-2099 on January 19, 2013, 06:51:52 AM
There's no bad song on Images & Words, just the least great.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Prog Snob on January 19, 2013, 07:10:52 AM
I guess my one controversial DT opinion is that Pull Me Under really isn't that great. While I can't say there are any DT songs I don't like, Pull Me Under is one of my least liked ones. It's cool and all but I don't get what the big fuss is. It's nothing special.

I get what you are saying.  I, too, think it is probably one of their most overplayed live songs (there are some other great songs I'd love to see them dig out for the next tour).  However for me, it is more about nostalgia and appreciating the song that got me and probably a lot of other fans here in Dream Theater in the first place.  I remember hearing it on a local radio station back in 1992 and immediately wanting to hear more from this band.  That is just my take on it.  The lyrics are still great to listen to even 20 years later also.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on January 19, 2013, 07:23:04 AM
It's funny but being from that era, PMU is what got me into DT, like Prog Snob has said, I heard it on the radio and was searching for something heavier that was proggy and lucky for me DT came along so I have much love for PMU.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MirzekDT on January 19, 2013, 08:33:35 AM
Shattered Fortress is a GOOD song.

WTF is controversial about this??? It's awesome song, probably my favorite from BC&SL, the second favorite at least. Now my opinion may be controversial for some people but that it's a GOOD song? Does really everybody hate it so much? Sorry, I just enjoy The Shattered Fortress too much :)

BTW The Shattered Fortress is much better than The Glass Prison if you want some controversial opinion. And don't worry I really like The Glass Prison but it's definitely my least favorite from Six Degrees even though every song is very good on Six Degrees...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on January 19, 2013, 09:06:10 AM
Shattered Fortress is a GOOD song.

WTF is controversial about this??? It's awesome song, probably my favorite from BC&SL, the second favorite at least. Now my opinion may be controversial for some people but that it's a GOOD song? Does really everybody hate it so much? Sorry, I just enjoy The Shattered Fortress too much :)


I think with most people, me included, that don't like the song think that it is just a bunch of recycled riffs that don't seem to fit that seamlessly. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: snapple on January 19, 2013, 09:15:06 AM
There's no bad song on Images & Words, just the least great.

Not many people are going to argue with you on that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 19, 2013, 09:50:12 AM
Ministry of Lost Souls is a top 15 song

These Walls and Endless Sacrifice are top 10
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jhonvictor on January 20, 2013, 04:33:33 AM
Outcry sucks compared to the rest of the album.
As I Am is the 2nd best of the album, and for sure a top 30 song. (idk why it gets so much hate)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 20, 2013, 07:08:47 AM
As I Am's chorus is pretty lackluster, especially after the rockin' verses. I don't mind the lyrics, it's just the chorus that brings it down for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 20, 2013, 08:05:04 AM
As I Am's chorus is pretty lackluster, especially after the rockin' verses. I don't mind the lyrics, it's just the chorus that brings it down for me.

This is exactly how I feel too! The first verse is actually quite to very cool! :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 20, 2013, 09:55:46 AM
As I Am is a pretty cool rocker and one of DT's better straightforward metal songs, but I think it could've been really awesome if they had built the whole song around the slow beginning part, as I love doom metal! :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: chaotic_ripper on January 20, 2013, 10:10:47 AM
I actually like Raw Dog.  :omg:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 20, 2013, 10:16:36 AM
Raw Dog isn't bad at all, but not something I want to listen to all the time. Maybe once a year or something.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on January 20, 2013, 10:19:51 AM
Outcry sucks compared to the rest of the album.
I agree. Well, a bit. I don't like the lyrics (subject is good, but way too cheesy) and I am indifferent towards the instrumental parts.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 20, 2013, 10:29:09 AM
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'm not really focused on lyrics all that much so it doesn't really bother me when the song comes up, but when I actively focus on the lyrics, I'm always thinking that it's a very direct lyrical approach, perhaps too direct to have the effect that it could have had.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 20, 2013, 12:32:04 PM
There's no bad song on Images & Words, just the least great.


Except Surrounded.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 20, 2013, 12:42:06 PM
There's no bad song on Images & Words, just the least great.


Except Surrounded.
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn431/Moriel_Alcaril/reaction/tumblr_inline_mft6mhKoQ01r9vdbu.jpg)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 20, 2013, 12:44:45 PM
lol


I have to be in a certain mood to listen to Surrounded. It's also one of the few songs in DT's discography I will skip when it comes on in the context of the album. It was amazing live though... like I said... I have to be in the mood to listen to  it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 20, 2013, 12:51:48 PM
There's no bad song on Images & Words, just the least great.


Except Surrounded.
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn431/Moriel_Alcaril/reaction/tumblr_inline_mft6mhKoQ01r9vdbu.jpg)
Quoted for both truth and image hilarity. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on January 20, 2013, 01:23:41 PM
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'm not really focused on lyrics all that much so it doesn't really bother me when the song comes up, but when I actively focus on the lyrics, I'm always thinking that it's a very direct lyrical approach, perhaps too direct to have the effect that it could have had.
Hell, I even like the lyrics to Count of Tuscany better. I mean, the Arabian spring was really, well, a big event, and it's not a bad thing to write lyrics about that. But things like "Freedom has a price, the cost is buried in the ground" are just so incredibly cheesy. JP could've written better lyrics and still be direct.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lolzeez on January 20, 2013, 01:53:30 PM
Here's a new one.

The Silent Man is the best song off Awake.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 20, 2013, 02:52:26 PM
Here's one.

I actually think Dream Theater sucks, but they had a forum and some threads, so what the fuck.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on January 20, 2013, 03:08:36 PM
Here's a new one.

The Silent Man is the best song off Awake.

It's one my favourites off the album as well. The Mirror and Caught in a Web tie with it, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Prog Snob on January 20, 2013, 04:36:54 PM
As I Am's chorus is pretty lackluster, especially after the rockin' verses. I don't mind the lyrics, it's just the chorus that brings it down for me.

I do not like green eggs and ham.  Sam I am.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 20, 2013, 05:42:21 PM
As I Am's chorus is pretty lackluster, especially after the rockin' verses. I don't mind the lyrics, it's just the chorus that brings it down for me.

I do not like them Sam I am. I do not like green eggs and ham.

Could you would you in a boat?

Would you could you with a goat?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: snapple on January 20, 2013, 05:55:30 PM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 20, 2013, 06:23:56 PM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL

Yes, no, no, yes, yes. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on January 20, 2013, 07:04:12 PM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL

Yes, no, no, yes, yes.
ADTOE < Everything other than WDADU
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 20, 2013, 07:36:54 PM
Here's a new one.

The Silent Man is the best song off Awake.

It's definitely one of my favourites off the album, so I'm ok with this.


ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL

Yes, no, no, yes, yes.
ADTOE < Everything other than WDADU

Well at least we can agree on something today. :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on January 20, 2013, 07:39:14 PM
Well at least we can agree on something today. :P
Word.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: snapple on January 21, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL

I made a mistake. I posted this in an opinions thread when it is clearly fact. Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 21, 2013, 11:28:49 AM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL

Yes, no, no, yes, yes.
ADTOE < Everything other than WDADU

Well at least we can agree on something today. :P

You like Awake more than WDADU (not baiting, genuinely curious)?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 21, 2013, 11:56:26 AM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL
I might put 6 Degrees on the same level as A Dramatic Turn of Events, otherwise, yeah.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 21, 2013, 02:05:01 PM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL

Yes, no, no, yes, yes.
ADTOE < Everything other than WDADU

Well at least we can agree on something today. :P

You like Awake more than WDADU (not baiting, genuinely curious)?

I probably shouldn't speak for Blob, but yes, I'm pretty sure he likes Awake better than WDADU.   :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 21, 2013, 02:51:36 PM
Derp. I meant ADTOE.

So Blob, do you like Awake more than ADTOE?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on January 21, 2013, 04:32:02 PM
ADTOE < Everything other than WDADU, FII and 8vm

FTFM
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 21, 2013, 04:50:32 PM
ADToE>8vm, 6DOIT, ToT, SC, BC&SL

Yup. It's better than WDADU too.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2013, 07:51:20 PM
Derp. I meant ADTOE.

So Blob, do you like Awake more than ADTOE?

They're actually both at the bottom for me, so that's a toughy. As an album ADTOE is more consistent, but up until Lie, Awake is a very good album.
I guess if I had to choose, I'd go with Awake, but lop off everything from Lie onwards.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Prog Snob on January 21, 2013, 07:59:27 PM
Derp. I meant ADTOE.

So Blob, do you like Awake more than ADTOE?

They're actually both at the bottom for me, so that's a toughy. As an album ADTOE is more consistent, but up until Lie, Awake is a very good album.
I guess if I had to choose, I'd go with Awake, but lop off everything from Lie onwards.

Wow...so Lifting Shadows doesn't do anything for you?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
Derp. I meant ADTOE.

So Blob, do you like Awake more than ADTOE?

They're actually both at the bottom for me, so that's a toughy. As an album ADTOE is more consistent, but up until Lie, Awake is a very good album.
I guess if I had to choose, I'd go with Awake, but lop off everything from Lie onwards.

Wow...so Lifting Shadows doesn't do anything for you?

I don't hate it, but "does nothing for me" would be an accurate description.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 21, 2013, 08:08:34 PM
It's not cheesy and 80s enough. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 21, 2013, 08:10:46 PM
Yes, because every other DT song I listen to is cheesy and 80s.  :\
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 21, 2013, 08:15:05 PM
Go to bed, Blob.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Prog Snob on January 21, 2013, 08:15:38 PM
Derp. I meant ADTOE.

So Blob, do you like Awake more than ADTOE?

They're actually both at the bottom for me, so that's a toughy. As an album ADTOE is more consistent, but up until Lie, Awake is a very good album.
I guess if I had to choose, I'd go with Awake, but lop off everything from Lie onwards.

Wow...so Lifting Shadows doesn't do anything for you?

I don't hate it, but "does nothing for me" would be an accurate description.

For me, if they had started the CD at Innocence Faded I'd be perfectly content.  Not that 6:00 and CiaW are horrible songs, but I don't always look forward to hearing them live.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 21, 2013, 11:55:48 PM
I used to think the same way, but then I heard 6:00 live...  ::)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 21, 2013, 11:58:29 PM
I used to think the same way, but then I heard 6:00 live...  ::)


I used to be indifferent towards 6:00. That was until I hear it live :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 22, 2013, 12:00:05 AM
I saw it live before I heard the studio version. I think that both are awesome!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 22, 2013, 12:16:14 AM
I saw it live before I heard the studio version. I think that both are awesome!

how is that possible?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 22, 2013, 04:05:14 AM
YouTube video, perhaps?

Anyway, my opinions on Awake form a sort-of reverse-Blob: if the first three tracks were cut, the album would be then best DT disc by a long shot. Not that they are bad, and Awake is still my third favourite DT album, but the other tracks are really, really awesome and on a whole different level.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 22, 2013, 06:24:55 AM
I saw it live before I heard the studio version. I think that both are awesome!

how is that possible?

Maybe he hadn't gotten into their full discography yet, but he enough of a fan to wish to check them out live already. I think he will tell us the truth quite soon :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 22, 2013, 06:28:55 AM
Maybe he hadn't gotten into their full discography yet, but he enough of a fan to wish to check them out live already. I think he will tell us the truth quite soon :D
Yeah, I think this is the case. I might remember wrong, but hasn't he not heard Scenes in full yet (or maybe I'm thinking of someone else)?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 22, 2013, 06:30:02 AM
Maybe he hadn't gotten into their full discography yet, but he enough of a fan to wish to check them out live already. I think he will tell us the truth quite soon :D
Yeah, I think this is the case. I might remember wrong, but hasn't he not heard Scenes in full yet (or maybe I'm thinking of someone else)?

Yes, he is still a pretty new DT fan... and we already corrupted him!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 22, 2013, 09:08:55 AM
Ok everyone, here's the story: I got into Dream Theater in the fall of 2011, around the time of the release of A Dramatic Turn of Events. I really got into their music and wanted to see them live. At this time, I only had A Dramatic Turn of Events and Images and Words on CD. When I saw them live, they played 6:00 after Bridges in the Sky (this was the North American Summer 2012 leg of the tour) and I knew that I had to have it on CD. Pretty soon I had bought Awake, Six Degrees, and Octavarium.

Maybe he hadn't gotten into their full discography yet, but he enough of a fan to wish to check them out live already. I think he will tell us the truth quite soon :D
Yeah, I think this is the case. I might remember wrong, but hasn't he not heard Scenes in full yet (or maybe I'm thinking of someone else)?

I have heard Scenes on Grooveshark, but I haven't got the album on CD yet.

I would buy more of their stuff, but I've been discovering so much great music lately that I haven't been able to focus on completing any discographies yet.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on January 22, 2013, 01:30:52 PM
It's all good
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on January 22, 2013, 05:23:04 PM
Here's one: Octavarium is a fantastic album, and is better than Awake.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Meatrose on January 23, 2013, 12:17:21 PM
How about this: Pull Me Under is by far the weakest track on Images And Words.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on January 23, 2013, 01:21:24 PM
How about this: Pull Me Under is by far the weakest track on Images And Words.

I think that's generally agreed on :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 23, 2013, 01:36:41 PM
I've got one. I really don't know why everyone freaks out about JMX writing lyrics. I don't think they're that great. Other than BAI, which I really like.. but then again, JP helped with that one, so who knows what JMX actually wrote. But I really don't see what the deal is with songs like Lifting Shadows.

That being said, I absolutely love JMX and I think he is absolutely incredible.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 23, 2013, 01:45:33 PM
Trial of Tears would like to have with you.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 23, 2013, 02:34:03 PM
Trial of Tears would like to have with you.

Have what with him?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on January 23, 2013, 03:03:55 PM
A word. Just like my fingers would like to have a word with my brain before typing. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PetFish on January 23, 2013, 03:06:24 PM
I've got one. I really don't know why everyone freaks out about JMX writing lyrics. I don't think they're that great. Other than BAI, which I really like.. but then again, JP helped with that one, so who knows what JMX actually wrote. But I really don't see what the deal is with songs like Lifting Shadows.

I think why people like JM lyrics is cuz he writes "cryptic" lyrics in that they give the listener breathing room to interpret them how they want.  Kevin Moore wrote the same way.  Most of the other guys write "literal" lyrics that are just so obvious what the song is about and it really stifles any opportunity for the listener to have a personal connection unless they can directly relate to them.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 23, 2013, 03:10:38 PM
Well, I wouldn't call the lyrics in OTBOA literal at all... I think we don't know yet what precisely they are about.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 23, 2013, 03:17:05 PM
Not to mention stuff like Scarred from the earlier days.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ħ on January 23, 2013, 03:18:02 PM
Here's a controversial opinion: Awake is not a good album. *runs*
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 23, 2013, 03:19:12 PM
Not to mention stuff like Scarred from the earlier days.

Or UAGM. I named OTBOA to prevent people from saying: "Yeah, JP used to write metaphorically rich lyrics in his youth, now he just writes of persians, shamans, pipes and zombie pharaos"

Here's a controversial opinion: Awake is not a good album. *runs*

You better be fast.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 23, 2013, 03:35:25 PM
Not to mention stuff like Scarred from the earlier days.

Or UAGM. I named OTBOA to prevent people from saying: "Yeah, JP used to write metaphorically rich lyrics in his youth, now he just writes of persians, shamans, pipes and zombie pharaos"

Here's a controversial opinion: Awake is not a good album. *runs*

You better be fast.
(https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb0hfltCAF1rsw1yf.gif)
On my way.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Pols Voice on January 23, 2013, 04:06:02 PM
Here's a controversial opinion: Awake is not a good album. *runs*

You're right. It's not good...


























...it's phenomenal.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 23, 2013, 08:14:15 PM
Here's a controversial opinion: Awake is not a good album. *runs*

I'm ok with this. :tup

Well actually, even I would still call it good (for the most part), I just wouldn't call it one of DT's better albums.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ħ on January 23, 2013, 08:49:59 PM
Here's a controversial opinion: Awake is not a good album. *runs*

I'm ok with this. :tup

Well actually, even I would still call it good (for the most part), I just wouldn't call it one of DT's better albums.
Er, yeah, I mean it's tolerable. But it's significantly worse than DT's best material.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on January 24, 2013, 12:33:45 AM
Here's a controversial opinion: Awake is not a good album. *runs*

You're right. It's not good...


























...it's phenomenal.

And now, imagine that James said it to your ears: phenomenal!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on January 24, 2013, 03:16:08 AM
I've got one. I really don't know why everyone freaks out about JMX writing lyrics. I don't think they're that great. Other than BAI, which I really like.. but then again, JP helped with that one, so who knows what JMX actually wrote.
JM has always had someone to help him shape the lyrics into their final form (http://faq.dtnorway.com/question?questionid=1058), but it wasn't until now that JP got credited for that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wolfking on January 24, 2013, 03:58:14 AM
This Dying Soul is DT's best song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 24, 2013, 07:20:04 AM
This Dying Soul is DT's best song.

...

We have a winner. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dreamer81 on January 24, 2013, 09:34:49 AM
Bridges in the Sky is DT's best song.


Fixed!!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lolzeez on January 24, 2013, 12:29:32 PM
Awake has more highlights than I&W.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on January 24, 2013, 01:00:41 PM
I've got one. I really don't know why everyone freaks out about JMX writing lyrics. I don't think they're that great. Other than BAI, which I really like.. but then again, JP helped with that one, so who knows what JMX actually wrote.
JM has always had someone to help him shape the lyrics into their final form (http://faq.dtnorway.com/question?questionid=1058), but it wasn't until now that JP got credited for that.
I was already aware of that, but they were saying that BAI was cowritten by JP. So I just figured JP cowriting the song with him, and JP shape the lyrics would have been a little different. But maybe that's what happened? I'm not sure. I guess we'll never know.


But I think DT is the greatest group of musicians ever assembled. I'm sure that statement might be a bit controversial to some people.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2013, 06:07:53 PM
Breaking All Illusions has never clicked for me.

It has some nice sections but overall It doesn't do anything for me.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: robwebster on January 24, 2013, 06:37:09 PM
I've got one. I really don't know why everyone freaks out about JMX writing lyrics. I don't think they're that great. Other than BAI, which I really like.. but then again, JP helped with that one, so who knows what JMX actually wrote. But I really don't see what the deal is with songs like Lifting Shadows.

I think why people like JM lyrics is cuz he writes "cryptic" lyrics in that they give the listener breathing room to interpret them how they want.  Kevin Moore wrote the same way.  Most of the other guys write "literal" lyrics that are just so obvious what the song is about and it really stifles any opportunity for the listener to have a personal connection unless they can directly relate to them.
I broadly agree with Lord of the Strings, but I do like it when JM contributes simply because it adds another voice to the band.

I do think John's lyrics are a little samey, though, and they threaten to become word salad in places. They've got pleasant imagery, and they're broadly uplifting, but I think he's a good lyricist with his own strengths and flaws just like any of the others. I also think that as he writes so sparingly, we don't see as much of the weakness or the repetition as we have and do with other lyricists. If Myung was writing seven songs per album and Petrucci was writing one every four years(ish) I don't think the band's lyrics would be any better. Again, just different strengths and weaknesses. Same goes for Kev! Perfectly good writer, interesting stuff to say and he expresses it well, but he's not exceptional.

Honestly, my least favourite DT lyricist? Early-90s Petrucci. It's pleasant, but it's... just nonsense, isn't it? Even he couldn't tell you what Under a Glass Moon is about. Much better nowadays. Misunderstood is, in my (possibly controversial, possibly not!) opinion, the band's finest lyrical moment. It's the balance. It's evocative, plenty of images, parallels, but it's also close enough to be relatable. Makes you feel something. "Never use a long word when a short one will do" - George Orwell! Wrapping your point in layer upon layer of abstract imagery and metaphor isn't a good way to connect to your listener. UaGM sounds pretty enough, but I couldn't be more disconnected if I tried.

This also goes for a lot of fan favourites - Voices, Scarred. I'm glad someone else is getting something from them. That's grand, I'm glad they're as popular as they are, and it's clearly me who's missing out. But I am missing out. I'm just getting a list of metaphors. Not cogent, there's no connection - Voices goes from a spider to an angel to an old man to a newsstand. It doesn't take me anywhere. I mean, yes, it takes me to a pool, and a window, and a newsagents, but that's not a journey, that's a slideshow. There's no comment, it's just "look at this spider." Erratic. Whatever it's alluding to, whatever statement it's making, it's not made within the song. I find it a bit - whisper it - dull!

Not that I'm saying diverse imagery can't work. Petrucci sticks with the disparate image thing for pretty much his whole career, but it's fair to say he improves as he goes along. Images feel connected in later songs. "Playing a lion being led to a cage, I turn from a thief to a beggar, from a god to God, save me," not only have you got a strong biblical imagery, but there's a very clear vein of strength-to-weakness. I'm sure there's something like that in Voices, too, but you have to dig pretty deep, and possibly double check in an encyclopedia. The song's not making the statement.

Right, now, someone say something more controversial so nobody reads this! Bring back Mike Portnoy! John Myung looks better in white! David Prater was the only man who ever understood what Dream Theater really means!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2013, 06:54:38 PM
Mike Mangini's drum solos are actually dull as fuck and no sodding drummer needs FOUR bass drums.

 :facepalm: Two is plenty Mangini. Stop over-compensating.


I used to love Jordan when I forst got into DT about 5 years ago but I found his playing on SC and BC&SL far too showboaty and came to appreciate Derek's sounds and playing more.

Also - JR has that annoying habit of posting pictures or video clips online with a godawful stupid effect or filter on which kinda makes it look like he has no idea what he's doing.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2013, 06:55:08 PM
Now..

Rob..

That's that done..

Would you care to chat a while ? :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: robwebster on January 24, 2013, 07:07:28 PM
Oh! Actually! One more thing!
Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings
Other than BAI, which I really like.. but then again, JP helped with that one, so who knows what JMX actually wrote.
I belieeeeve JP (or MP or KM) helped write all of them. The stuff we all know - John Myung would give them the lyrics in a more freeform style, and his bandmates rewrote them into a shape that fit the song. That's quite a heavy duty operation, so they stopped after a while.

I've got a hunch that, rather than John Myung changing his working style, they rather agreed that his cohorts would receive a credit for their rewrites. Which is fair. Not only is a co-credit acknowledgment for a service that would've otherwise been invisible, but editing something and putting words they didn't say into an author's mouth can feel a bit like vandalism at times. What if you're making it worse, or detracting from the point they were trying to make?! Add your name to the credits, and you take joint responsibility.

Hunch! But I'd put a small amount of money on being right. I suppose that's true of any hunch, though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 24, 2013, 07:08:48 PM
I actually just agree with all of this. I always say that JMX lyrics are precious because they map where he is as an artist at a certain point; if there were more of them, they would all be about the same thing. Except for the fact I don't think JP's much better now, because his strength is in the imagery, as opposed to telling a story - The Killing Hand and The Dark Eternal Night wouldn't be captivating in prose at all.

But when he depicts... I dunno, a measure of whether the lyric is good for me is whether I can proudly and unironically sing along to it without feeling silly, lots of bonus points if it's relatable. Even though UAGM and Voices are not about anything in particular, they are still so beautifully written I don't mind, and that's a rare occurrence for me. They are just overly sparkly, those words, and seemingly jumbled, just like their music, but so beautiful and beautifully put together, and beauty doesn't have to be about anything. They just fit into the early DT aesthetic as well - a group of thoughtful young men who all had such a visible spark and individuality to them, but they weren't dreadfully serious beyond their age or pompous, but just poetic and like flamboyant romantics I guess. Even the visuals - huge fluffy shirts, ridiculously long hair, brightly colored detailed covers, all in the era of plaid and Doc Martens! They were just boldly out there and those JP lyrics just fit the aesthetic. A little silly but just a little. Five percent silly and "outdated", ninety five percent brilliant is how you could call early DT in everything.

Misunderstood is just between those two - a beautiful but simple and non-cryptical depiction of a real point in a storyline but without elaborating too much about the before and after. Definitely the best JP approach and lyric, we agree. Holy fuck they went all guns blazing on that album, him with that, MP with TGP, JLB with Disappear and Blind Faith... wow. But even not "hey wait a minute man" isn't worse than many other lyrics I've heard, from people who have routinely been writing them for more than 20 years, and for 20 minute epics, no less. The only reason why I sometimes tease JP for his lyrics is because there's really nothing else to tease him for, the man's a total wonder and he's the cornerstone of this band I love so much :lol

Controversial opinions... uhm... the rotating setlists were a bad idea? They should have picked Lars Ulrich? JP should have kept the 2005 image? :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on January 24, 2013, 07:27:15 PM
^ JP does look better with short hair.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on January 24, 2013, 07:38:56 PM
^ JP does look better with short hair.

No.

Also the straps and crap he wore as part of his 'outfit' in 2005... jesus christ leave the ridiculous shit to Slipknot or SOAD or some shit.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on January 24, 2013, 08:13:10 PM
Honestly, my least favourite DT lyricist? Early-90s Petrucci. It's pleasant, but it's... just nonsense, isn't it? Even he couldn't tell you what Under a Glass Moon is about.

I’m just going to quote myself here.  From my Top 50 list:

09. Under a Glass Moon
I’m a sucker for these types of lyrics.  I love the cryptic, the enigmatic, the shamelessly poetic.  Sometimes people throw the phrase ‘word salad’ around like it’s a bad thing, but for me, a word salad can be damn tasty.  This song’s lyrics are one hell of a word salad, drenched in bleu cheese dressing and served alongside a big juicy steak.  YUM. 

But that’s just me. 


Misunderstood is, in my (possibly controversial, possibly not!) opinion, the band's finest lyrical moment.

Here I agree wholeheartedly.  I’m going to quote myself again, just because ironically, I talked about Misunderstood in the exact same post as the one I just quoted about UaGM:

10. Misunderstood
Rounding out my top ten is Misunderstood, a song often cited for its experimental nature.  This song wouldn’t be as high on my list except that lyrically, it’s probably my very favorite Dream Theater song.

 :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: bongomaster7000 on January 24, 2013, 09:43:02 PM
I&W is junk, along with Awake
Systematic Chaos is their best album, Forsaken the best song
Erotomania is their worst instrumental, SOC being the best
New Millenium and You Not Me are the best from FII
TDEN lyrics rocks
Repentance is the best song from the 12 step suite
SFAM doesnt catch my attention
Octavarium is better than ACOS
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on January 24, 2013, 09:46:48 PM
Welcome to the forums dude!

Some very controversial opinions indeed.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on January 24, 2013, 09:51:40 PM
While I agree with two of those (Octavarium is better than ACOS, and TDEN's lyrics do rock), that's gotta be trolling. Just too many polar opposite opinions. And that says a lot coming from me of all people. :lol

Welcome to the forum though. No offense intended with my comments!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: bongomaster7000 on January 24, 2013, 09:58:09 PM
hahahaha maybe I was a little bit harsh

I&W is not really junk, but it doesnt click me, same thing with awake
Octaravarium WAS the song that got me into DT so I have that connection with it. ACOS is awesome BTW.
I would have chosen ACOS album as my favourite, but just for the song. The covers kill it IMO.
And TDEN lyrics... Idk, I find them somewhat nonsensical but awesome, lulz. But speaking about serious lyrics, BAI.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on January 25, 2013, 11:58:06 AM

Octavarium is better than ACOS


Agreed.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on January 25, 2013, 06:28:12 PM
I actually just agree with all of this. I always say that JMX lyrics are precious because they map where he is as an artist at a certain point; if there were more of them, they would all be about the same thing. Except for the fact I don't think JP's much better now, because his strength is in the imagery, as opposed to telling a story - The Killing Hand and The Dark Eternal Night wouldn't be captivating in prose at all.

But when he depicts... I dunno, a measure of whether the lyric is good for me is whether I can proudly and unironically sing along to it without feeling silly, lots of bonus points if it's relatable. Even though UAGM and Voices are not about anything in particular, they are still so beautifully written I don't mind, and that's a rare occurrence for me. They are just overly sparkly, those words, and seemingly jumbled, just like their music, but so beautiful and beautifully put together, and beauty doesn't have to be about anything. They just fit into the early DT aesthetic as well - a group of thoughtful young men who all had such a visible spark and individuality to them, but they weren't dreadfully serious beyond their age or pompous, but just poetic and like flamboyant romantics I guess. Even the visuals - huge fluffy shirts, ridiculously long hair, brightly colored detailed covers, all in the era of plaid and Doc Martens! They were just boldly out there and those JP lyrics just fit the aesthetic. A little silly but just a little. Five percent silly and "outdated", ninety five percent brilliant is how you could call early DT in everything.

Misunderstood is just between those two - a beautiful but simple and non-cryptical depiction of a real point in a storyline but without elaborating too much about the before and after. Definitely the best JP approach and lyric, we agree. Holy fuck they went all guns blazing on that album, him with that, MP with TGP, JLB with Disappear and Blind Faith... wow. But even not "hey wait a minute man" isn't worse than many other lyrics I've heard, from people who have routinely been writing them for more than 20 years, and for 20 minute epics, no less. The only reason why I sometimes tease JP for his lyrics is because there's really nothing else to tease him for, the man's a total wonder and he's the cornerstone of this band I love so much :lol

Controversial opinions... uhm... the rotating setlists were a bad idea? They should have picked Lars Ulrich? JP should have kept the 2005 image? :lol

This post.






I love this post.






I love you. :heart







 :biggrin: Bonus points that I agree with these points, pun intended, but that post was so amazingly written. That's like rob level there. :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 25, 2013, 06:29:55 PM
That's like rob level there. :tup
I don't think I've ever received a compliment on par with that :lol

Honestly no one can touch rob-level but we can try. Thank you :heart
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 25, 2013, 06:32:11 PM
That's like rob level there. :tup
I don't think I've ever received a compliment on par with that :lol

Honestly no one can touch rob-level but we can try. Thank you :heart

Shush, that's entirely roblevel! Just wait for him to came and award you the Webster Award For Outstanding Post Writings and Topic Awareness.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 25, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
Shush, that's entirely roblevel! Just wait for him to came and award you the Webster Award For Outstanding Post Writings and Topic Awareness.
You're so dead :rollin
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: robwebster on January 25, 2013, 06:46:39 PM
Shush, that's entirely roblevel! Just wait for him to came and award you the Webster Award For Outstanding Post Writings and Topic Awareness.
You're so dead :rollin
No awards, but how would you like to become my official sidekick? It's a great job, we wear shit costumes as we swing from website to website, saving the internet from the tyranny of concise posts.

Wages are abysmal, but there are plenty of promotion opportunities.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on January 25, 2013, 06:47:36 PM
No awards, but how would you like to become my official sidekick? It's a great job, we wear shit costumes as we swing from website to website, saving the internet from the tyranny of concise posts.
(http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_7076_1354406123.gif)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: robwebster on January 25, 2013, 06:49:09 PM
It's settled. Your leotard is in the post.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on January 25, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
:rollin You guys.

That's like rob level there. :tup
I don't think I've ever received a compliment on par with that :lol

Honestly no one can touch rob-level but we can try. Thank you :heart

If no-one can touch rob level, how does rob reach rob level? :o

I think rob is an alien. Not alien as in a banana in a grape factory, but alien like an unknown fruit from another planet in a grape factory.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: robwebster on January 25, 2013, 08:03:54 PM
:rollin You guys.

That's like rob level there. :tup
I don't think I've ever received a compliment on par with that :lol

Honestly no one can touch rob-level but we can try. Thank you :heart

If no-one can touch rob level, how does rob reach rob level? :o
No one can touch rob-level. I'm two people. My real names are Miranda and Clive. Hello!

No, honestly, it's a surprisingly tangible level.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on January 26, 2013, 01:46:48 AM
I think you just need to be underslept and slightly drunk to get to the levels of posting awesomeness rob can attein while sober at 11AM.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on January 26, 2013, 03:35:55 AM
I think you just need to be underslept and slightly drunk to get to the levels of posting awesomeness rob can attein while sober at 11AM.

Does anyone want to pitch money for a texas mickey and stay up all night on DTF? :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: snapple on January 26, 2013, 06:53:58 AM
Octavarium is a forgettable song/album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on January 26, 2013, 08:06:08 AM
You're a forgettable song/album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonnybaxy on January 26, 2013, 10:48:12 AM
You're a forgettable song/album.

Oooohhh burn!!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jsem on January 26, 2013, 11:39:41 AM
Octavarium is a forgettable song/album.
Agree about the album in general. The song is magic though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ZKX-2099 on January 26, 2013, 11:52:56 AM
The Jews are evi..... oh opinions on Dream Theater.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on January 26, 2013, 01:32:37 PM
The Jews are evi..... oh opinions on Dream Theater.
You could maybe make a case for Portnoy, but Jordan's a sweetheart.  ;)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 13, 2013, 10:08:24 AM
Bumping this in case someone has controversial opinions to share.

I know I said I love TOWHTSTS already, but now that my list is over, I can say more precisely that it's a top 20 song for me. And since there's a lot of discussion on Six Degrees going on in the "DT in the studio again" thread, I once again have to say that in my opinion WDADU > SDOIT :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on April 13, 2013, 10:23:53 AM
Bumping this in case someone has controversial opinions to share.

I know I said I love TOWHTSTS already, but now that my list is over, I can say more precisely that it's a top 20 song for me. And since there's a lot of discussion on Six Degrees going on in the "DT in the studio again" thread, I once again have to say that in my opinion WDADU > SDOIT :)
For me, it's the exact opposite. SDOIT is my favourite DT album where WDADU is my least favourite.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 13, 2013, 10:26:29 AM
WDADU is DT's only truly awful album. SDOIT and WDADU are literally the complete opposite ends of DT's best/worst albums for me.


We're in the controversial opinion thread, so I'm covered for that for the 3 people that like WDADU. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 13, 2013, 10:27:17 AM
I know no-one will agree with me :lol It's not a huge difference in quality and Six Degrees has some absolutely amazing stuff, but I find it easier to sit through WDADU than to listen to 6D in full.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: champbassist on April 13, 2013, 12:00:51 PM
I find the complicated bombast of SFAM too difficult to penetrate. It's my least favorite DT album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: legenden1 on April 13, 2013, 12:45:58 PM
I have always thought it was incredible that You not me gets so much hate. I think it´s one of the best songs on FII and easily better than songs like Ytse jam, Blind faith, Just let me breathe, Dance of Eternity, The count of Tuscany and especially better than the demo version You or me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SuperTaco on April 13, 2013, 12:48:00 PM
WDADU is my favorite album.
Octavarium is my favorite song.
FII is my least favorite album.
I think Prophets Of War is a great song.
Other than Repentance and TMOLS being too long, I think SC is a good album.
I probably like DT instrumentals more than most people. I would put Hell's Kitchen and SOC in my top 20.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on April 13, 2013, 01:07:48 PM
A Rite of Passage is a good song and would be somewhere in my top 40.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on April 13, 2013, 05:39:33 PM
Elements Of Persuasions vocals are better than both SC and BC&SL. Plus, EoP's guitar playing is much more inspiring and creative than both SC and BC&SL or maybe even Octavarium. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Elite on April 13, 2013, 06:44:33 PM
I have always thought it was incredible that You not me gets so much hate. I think it´s one of the best songs on FII and easily better than songs like Ytse jam, Blind faith, Just let me breathe, Dance of Eternity, The count of Tuscany and especially better than the demo version You or me.

You Not Me is a better song than any song on BC&SL, save Wither.

Yeah, go ahead, rape me, or whatever.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: SeRoX on April 13, 2013, 07:55:29 PM
If you say Just Let Me Breathe or Burning My Soul instead of You Not Me I would gladly agree, save TCOT but like this: no way.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 14, 2013, 12:27:18 AM
Overture 1928 is by far the best DT instrumental.
Endless Sacrifice is a Top 5 song.
SDV is the best song on Awake. (Although the Mirror comes close).


Bumping this in case someone has controversial opinions to share.

I know I said I love TOWHTSTS already, but now that my list is over, I can say more precisely that it's a top 20 song for me. And since there's a lot of discussion on Six Degrees going on in the "DT in the studio again" thread, I once again have to say that in my opinion WDADU > SDOIT :)

SFAM > TOT > Awake > ADTOE > 8VM > SDOIT :)

SDOIT is not bad,  but not amazing either. IMO. ;D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 14, 2013, 12:30:59 AM
SFAM Alternate mix > Release mix
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 12:43:53 AM
Elements Of Persuasions vocals are better than both SC and BC&SL. Plus, EoP's guitar playing is much more inspiring and creative than both SC and BC&SL or maybe even Octavarium. 

I Love EoP, and I love the gritty vocals, but they're really pitchy. JLB's vocals always sound really rough to me outside of DT projects, like he can't quite control his voice when he's given complete freedom to let loose. SC and BCASL both have better vocals imo. ITPOE and ANTR are both good examples of JLB singing controlled and melodic gritty vocals better than EoP.
And the guitar playing on EoP is just generic riffing in B, while SC and especially BCASL have some of JP's best guitar work. EoP does have some pretty good solos, but the keyboard solos are usually better. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 14, 2013, 01:09:11 AM
Octavarium is better than ACOS

I'm definitely on board this train.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 14, 2013, 02:27:42 AM
Octavarium is better than ACOS

I'm definitely on board this train.
Agreed
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 14, 2013, 02:45:09 AM
SDV is the best song on Awake.
:tup

All this love for Octavarium makes it seem like ACOS > 8V is a controversial opinion :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on April 14, 2013, 02:55:14 AM
I know no-one will agree with me :lol It's not a huge difference in quality and Six Degrees has some absolutely amazing stuff, but I find it easier to sit through WDADU than to listen to 6D in full.

WDADU = no weak songs
SDOIT = Disappear has grown on me, but still it's only decent at best. SDOIT has enough good material for ~20 minutes, not for 42.

So yeah, I agree.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 14, 2013, 03:03:57 AM
I don't like LF&GA, but otherwise I completely agree with you! :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 03:04:58 AM
No weak songs on WDADU? How can anyone say that with a straight face? :lol The best of WDADU doesn't even come close to the worst from SDOIT.
My controversial opinion is that WDADU should never have been released. It's an embarrassing album, especially when IaW could have made one of the best debut albums of all time.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 14, 2013, 03:10:59 AM
No weak songs on WDADU? How can anyone say that with a straight face? :lol The best of WDADU doesn't even come close to the worst from SDOIT.
My controversial opinion is that WDADU should never have been released. It's an embarrassing album, especially when IaW could have made one of the best debut albums of all time.

Do you mean that they should have held those songs back instead of releasing them? Because there is no way in hell that they could have written IAW without the musical growth that they experienced in the WDADU era!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 14, 2013, 03:19:33 AM
Do you mean that they should have held those songs back instead of releasing them? Because there is no way in hell that they could have written IAW without the musical growth that they experienced in the WDADU era!
This. Like it or not, WDADU was a necessary step towards I&W. And had they not released an album with Charlie, they wouldn't have realized that he wasn't the right singer for them and hired James after that. And even if they had started looking for a new singer, James was still the frontman for Winter Rose at the time and probably wouldn't have auditioned.

I think WDADU is really good for a first album and better than a lot of other debuts I've heard. Some of the songs have become classics, and the fact that DT played songs from this album more often than material from some other albums on the ADTOE tour says something.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on April 14, 2013, 03:22:01 AM
I have always thought it was incredible that You not me gets so much hate. I think it´s one of the best songs on FII and easily better than songs like Ytse jam, Blind faith, Just let me breathe, Dance of Eternity, The count of Tuscany and especially better than the demo version You or me.

You Not Me is a better song than any song on BC&SL, save Wither.

Yeah, go ahead, rape me, or whatever.
You're dead.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 14, 2013, 03:24:40 AM
You Not Me is better than The Count? Explain.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 14, 2013, 03:25:49 AM
You Not Me is better than Blind Faith and The Count? Explain.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 14, 2013, 03:35:57 AM
You Not Me is better than Blind Faith and The Count? Explain.

Yes, of course. And also, how can it be better than the demo? ???
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 14, 2013, 03:36:32 AM
Misunderstood and Blind Faith are BY FAR the weakest songs from SDOIT.

Misunderstood is a bottom 20 DT song.

Kill me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 04:06:42 AM
No weak songs on WDADU? How can anyone say that with a straight face? :lol The best of WDADU doesn't even come close to the worst from SDOIT.
My controversial opinion is that WDADU should never have been released. It's an embarrassing album, especially when IaW could have made one of the best debut albums of all time.

Do you mean that they should have held those songs back instead of releasing them? Because there is no way in hell that they could have written IAW without the musical growth that they experienced in the WDADU era!

They should have just been like the Majesty demos, and not recorded for a proper studio album. Obviously you aren't born writing Metropolises, but that doesn't mean you have to release everything along the way while you learn. So yes, they should have held them back.

And being the first album is no excuse. A lot of bands release excellent albums for their first release. As they say, you have all the time in the world to write your first album. So many bands have released debut albums universally considered great, and DT's debut isn't even highly regarded among their own fanbase.
Then only a few years later they manage IaW, which is universally loved among the fans. What a huge difference those few years made!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tomislav95 on April 14, 2013, 04:08:51 AM
Come on, WDADU is not that bad. It's not fantastic album but IMO there is no bad songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 04:10:50 AM
Come on, WDADU is not that bad. It's not fantastic album but IMO there is no bad songs.

Status Seeker, Light Fuse and Get Away, The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun and Only a Matter of Time are DT's absolute worst songs imo. Completely amateurish. The rest range from passable to good. I would not consider anything from that album close to great though. I'd say it is that bad.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tomislav95 on April 14, 2013, 04:12:13 AM
Come on, WDADU is not that bad. It's not fantastic album but IMO there is no bad songs.

Status Seeker, Light Fuse and Get Away, The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun and Only a Matter of Time are DT's absolute worst songs imo. Completely amateurish. The rest range from passable to good. I would not consider anything from that album close to great though. I'd say it is that bad.
Then I guess my opinion about WDADU is controversial ;D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 14, 2013, 04:15:30 AM
Come on, WDADU is not that bad. It's not fantastic album but IMO there is no bad songs.
I've been here for 3½ years and he has always disliked WDADU and the last few songs on Awake, so don't expect him to change his mind anytime soon! :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 04:15:36 AM
Come on, WDADU is not that bad. It's not fantastic album but IMO there is no bad songs.

Status Seeker, Light Fuse and Get Away, The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun and Only a Matter of Time are DT's absolute worst songs imo. Completely amateurish. The rest range from passable to good. I would not consider anything from that album close to great though. I'd say it is that bad.
Then I guess my opinion about WDADU is controversial ;D

We're in the controversial opinion thread, so that's what we're here for! Which is why I'm feeling a bit more open to being a bit more brutally honest about how I feel about the album. I don't think there's anything controversial about liking or disliking the album, but I think we're both comparing the extremes here, so some controversy from both ends perhaps? :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 14, 2013, 04:16:46 AM
You should also consider that IAW would have hardly received an equivalent production / eingineering had the band come without the relative success that WDADU had been in 1989.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 04:19:28 AM
You should also consider that IAW would have hardly received an equivalent production / eingineering had the band come without the relative success that WDADU had been in 1989.

I'd like to know by which relative measurement that WDADU was considered a success. How many copies did that sell before IaW was released?
Maybe having those recordings helped them secure the opportunity to record the IaW demos and get their record contract, but I'm not convinced they couldn't have done so otherwise either.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on April 14, 2013, 04:28:22 AM
Why I have a hard time listening to WDADU is Charlie's vocals.  I can't get buy it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tomislav95 on April 14, 2013, 04:30:44 AM
True, nothing is controversial here ;D

-TMOSL is great
-Status Seeker is catchy and good song
-song SDOIT is overrated
-Honor thy Father is great
-Repentance doesn't get praise it deserves
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 14, 2013, 04:43:34 AM
For those who are too lazy to check the first pages of this thread, here's a bunch of my controversial opinions:
-Octavarium and Six Degrees are the most overrated DT songs, I even have trouble calling the latter a song
-WDADU > Degrees-BC&SL era albums and FII
-ADTOE > Scenes
-The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun is one of the best DT songs ever
-Forsaken is actually good and probably the best song on SC
-Honor Thy Father is a good song
-Burning My Soul isn't half as bad as people say it is, it beats Anna Lee and New Millennium easily
A few more to my list:
-I find TSCO pretty overrated and cheesy
-Musically Disappear isn't that sad, only the piano intro is notably dark IMO
-I dislike Where Are You Now? with a passion, I'd rather listen to You Not Me, Never Enough or Prophets of War than that song (and that says something!)
-Status Seeker is great
-The Best of Times is too long and boring and the solo is overrated
Ok, maybe I wouldn't talk about TSCO that way nowadays, but I'm still surprised it's so popular, because I can't see what's so special about it. And I'm not saying Disappear isn't sad at all, but I've heard loads of darker and more melancholic songs, even by DT themselves.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: farizfariz on April 14, 2013, 09:46:35 AM
May i join ?

That's my tiny bits.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The King in Crimson on April 14, 2013, 09:52:22 AM
TCoT has a couple of cool parts but it's overall pretty terrible. It's basically a microcosm of BC&SL. :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 14, 2013, 10:16:47 AM
No weak songs on WDADU? How can anyone say that with a straight face? :lol The best of WDADU doesn't even come close to the worst from SDOIT.
My controversial opinion is that WDADU should never have been released. It's an embarrassing album, especially when IaW could have made one of the best debut albums of all time.

Do you mean that they should have held those songs back instead of releasing them? Because there is no way in hell that they could have written IAW without the musical growth that they experienced in the WDADU era!

Exactly.  It's not like a chef makes a perfect meal on his first try out; sometimes you have to break a few eggs first.  And doing so enables you to grow and get more confident and do better the next time.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 10:29:02 AM
No weak songs on WDADU? How can anyone say that with a straight face? :lol The best of WDADU doesn't even come close to the worst from SDOIT.
My controversial opinion is that WDADU should never have been released. It's an embarrassing album, especially when IaW could have made one of the best debut albums of all time.

Do you mean that they should have held those songs back instead of releasing them? Because there is no way in hell that they could have written IAW without the musical growth that they experienced in the WDADU era!

Exactly.  It's not like a chef makes a perfect meal on his first try out; sometimes you have to break a few eggs first.  And doing so enables you to grow and get more confident and do better the next time.

But a restaurant won't hire the chef who's just starting out to cook their good meals. The chef has to learn to make the meals, and then once he's good enough, he can work his way up, and only then is he good enough to cook for others.

I'm not suggesting the chef should instantly know how to cook a great meal, I'm just saying he shouldn't make strangers suffer his meals until he knows what he's doing. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 14, 2013, 10:40:55 AM
But a restaurant won't hire the chef who's just starting out to cook their good meals. The chef has to learn to make the meals, and then once he's good enough, he can work his way up, and only then is he good enough to cook for others.

I'm not suggesting the chef should instantly know how to cook a great meal, I'm just saying he shouldn't make strangers suffer his meals until he knows what he's doing. :biggrin:

Let's use a different example: should a football player train alone in his courtyard until he gets to a first league level? Or should he rather join a minor team, prove his worth, fall, get back on his feet, improve, improve, improve until the first league team sees him fit to hire him? :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 10:49:06 AM
But a restaurant won't hire the chef who's just starting out to cook their good meals. The chef has to learn to make the meals, and then once he's good enough, he can work his way up, and only then is he good enough to cook for others.

I'm not suggesting the chef should instantly know how to cook a great meal, I'm just saying he shouldn't make strangers suffer his meals until he knows what he's doing. :biggrin:

Let's use a different example: should a football player train alone in his courtyard until he gets to a first league level? Or should he rather join a minor team, prove his worth, fall, get back on his feet, improve, improve, improve until the first league team sees him fit to hire him? :)

What would joining a minor team be in this analogy? Releasing an album on a small label like WDADU was?
The analogy doesn't work, because a football player can't practice a full game of football alone without teams, and his ability to improve is dependent on the skill of the players he's against/with.
That's not analogous, because DT can learn to write songs and improve without needing to release all of their stumbling blocks. They didn't release the Majesty demos as an album at the time, and yet they still got past that.
Getting WDADU released may have played a part in them getting the record contract (and maybe in getting with JLB), but releasing the album isn't what improved their songwriting skill. Just the band process of writing it is what improved their songwriting skill.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 14, 2013, 11:05:54 AM
Getting WDADU released may have played a part in them getting the record contract (and maybe in getting with JLB), but releasing the album isn't what improved their songwriting skill. Just the band process of writing it is what improved their songwriting skill.

That's what I meant. Without the first album released, the band would have gotten a label deal for IAW similar to that they received for WDADU, which means no real tour, no videos and marginal promotion, not to mention the flaws in the recording process and in the post-production.

Which is why I say that releasing what they felt was good material (they didn't release all the songs they had at the time, so they indeed had a choice) was a good move. As far as I remember they got good reactions from sector critics and were featured on a few magazines. This was more than enough to secure a far better deal for the making of Images And Words years later. So releasing an album that was rather well-received objectively had positive consequences on their later career, and pepared the soil for their breakthrough.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 14, 2013, 11:19:41 AM
Getting WDADU released may have played a part in them getting the record contract (and maybe in getting with JLB), but releasing the album isn't what improved their songwriting skill. Just the band process of writing it is what improved their songwriting skill.

That's what I meant. Without the first album released, the band would have gotten a label deal for IAW similar to that they received for WDADU, which means no real tour, no videos and marginal promotion, not to mention the flaws in the recording process and in the post-production.

Which is why I say that releasing what they felt was good material (they didn't release all the songs they had at the time, so they indeed had a choice) was a good move. As far as I remember they got good reactions from sector critics and were featured on a few magazines. This was more than enough to secure a far better deal for the making of Images And Words years later. So releasing an album that was rather well-received objectively had positive consequences on their later career, and pepared the soil for their breakthrough.

We're approaching it from slightly different angles.
I'm only talking musically here that I don't think DT should have released WDADU, because I feel it's just not good enough to have deserved a release (and the hypothetical scenarios were generally speaking).

Of course historically speaking, I couldn't just hop back in my Delorean time machine and erase WDADU from memory and expect their future from then to have turned out the same. Maybe they still would have gotten the big record deal, maybe they would have even been more successful, who knows, but it wouldn't have led down the exact path that has given us DT releasing IaW as we know it in 1992, Awake in 1994, FII in 1997, etc etc (considering how nothing WDADU was though, I think they would have been just fine in one form or another though)
Our present day situation is a product of everything that came before it, so WDADU is part of what brought us to this point, but I don't believe that validates it musically as a good album.


And believe me, it pains me knowing that once I get my flux capacitor working, that I couldn't go and erase WDADU from history. :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Madman Shepherd on April 14, 2013, 01:07:39 PM
Can we all just agree that releasing WDADU is more like a game of badminton?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 14, 2013, 01:32:18 PM
No more clunker ballads.  FFH & BTS on ADTOE definitely lived up to their titles.  The only two songs that kept it from being a highly consistent album.  I skip them every time.  The album ends with a whimper on BTS, not a bang.  If they want to slow things down fine, but do it within a longer more progressive song.  The stand alone ballads are getting old.  I hope they do away with them on this next album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 14, 2013, 01:52:39 PM
No more clunker ballads.  FFH & BTS on ADTOE definitely lived up to their titles.  The only two songs that kept it from being a highly consistent album.  I skip them every time.  The album ends with a whimper on BTS, not a bang.  If they want to slow things down fine, but do it within a longer more progressive song.  The stand alone ballads are getting old.  I hope they do away with them on this next album.

I actually think BTS is one of the greatest songs on the record together with BITS and BAI.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on April 14, 2013, 02:34:33 PM
I actually think BTS is one of the greatest songs on the record together with BITS and BAI.
And you are right.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 14, 2013, 02:35:12 PM
I agree with 2/3 of your post.  BITS & BAI are far better than BTS.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 14, 2013, 02:50:17 PM
Better: yes maybe
Far better: no
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 14, 2013, 02:52:09 PM
Besides the production and Charlie not being the best vocalist, there really isn't much to complain about on WDADU. I think Blob is exaggerating for effect.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The King in Crimson on April 14, 2013, 03:08:09 PM
I find BAI to be amongst the weaker songs on ADToE, well at least not as good as BITS, LNF, OtBoA and FFH.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: AngelBack on April 14, 2013, 07:12:45 PM
BTS was a bit anti-climactic for a closer.  Not that a ballad can't wrap up and put a beautiful finishing touch to an album, but it has to be a "special" song.  See Rush "The Garden" for more details.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on April 14, 2013, 10:03:44 PM
BTS was a bit anti-climactic for a closer.  Not that a ballad can't wrap up and put a beautiful finishing touch to an album, but it has to be a "special" song.  See Rush "The Garden" for more details.

I thought BTS was a great closer, and it's a nice refresher from having the epic moment be the ending to every album since SDOIT. Granted, all of those endings were awesome except maybe ITPOE pt. 2 which I felt lacked a good album ending.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 15, 2013, 02:24:31 AM
No more clunker ballads.  FFH & BTS on ADTOE definitely lived up to their titles.  The only two songs that kept it from being a highly consistent album.  I skip them every time.  The album ends with a whimper on BTS, not a bang.  If they want to slow things down fine, but do it within a longer more progressive song.  The stand alone ballads are getting old.  I hope they do away with them on this next album.

THANK YOU. It's a fizzle ending. I don't mind FFH though. I think that one had some emotion to it, and was a nice song. Not as good as older stuff like Vacant or Disappear though.
I actually love the ballads, although I don't like their recent major key stuff from Octavarium onwards.


Besides the production and Charlie not being the best vocalist, there really isn't much to complain about on WDADU. I think Blob is exaggerating for effect.

The badness of WDADU needs no embellishment or exaggerating. There is plenty to complain about on WDADU musically speaking, from the poorly thought out vocal phrasing that's impossible to sing effectively, to the amateurish melodies that are all over the place, to the inability to arrange a song for their instruments resulting in clashing instruments that sounds like complete mud. It is amateur on every single level, and it's a stain on DT's otherwise very strong discography.
I'm not saying it's a complete lost cause, but literally half of the album is irredeemably bad, and the other half is still flawed to the point of not being really worth listening to anyway.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on April 15, 2013, 05:28:01 AM
Come on, WDADU is not that bad. It's not fantastic album but IMO there is no bad songs.

Status Seeker, Light Fuse and Get Away, The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun and Only a Matter of Time are DT's absolute worst songs imo.

IMO, they are among the best. :biggrin: I didn't like LFAGA for some time, but last time I spun WDADU, I enjoyed it a lot.

Yeah, and:

You Not Me is a better song than any song on BC&SL.

E:Sorry Onno, forgot FTFM  ;).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on April 15, 2013, 05:35:11 AM
That's not my quote!  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 15, 2013, 06:56:35 AM
While YNM isn't as bad as everyone says (it's far too mediocre to warrant such hate), everything on BCASL is still miles better. Let's not get silly here!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on April 15, 2013, 08:06:24 AM
Because YNM is as bad as everyone says (pretty listenable except for the chorus, which is garbage), everything on BCASL is still miles better. Let's not get silly here!
FTFM
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on April 15, 2013, 08:10:06 AM
Yeah, even the worst song on BC&SL is miles better than YNM in my opinion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 15, 2013, 08:24:06 AM
I think I might prefer YNM to AROP...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Bolsters on April 15, 2013, 09:01:14 AM
I'll take You Not Me over A Rite of Passage, The Shattered Fortress, or The Best of Times any day.

I often wonder if YNM would get anywhere near enough hate if people didn't know it was rewritten with an outside writer under orders from the interfering record company, or know of the existence of Your Or Me (though one of my controversial opinions is that YNM is better than YOM anyway). I think it still wouldn't be a universally loved song at all, but I don't think it would see quit as much hate as it gets, if not for that knowledge.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 15, 2013, 09:07:24 AM
I often wonder if YNM would get anywhere near enough hate if people didn't know it was rewritten with an outside writer under orders from the interfering record company, or know of the existence of Your Or Me (though one of my controversial opinions is that YNM is better than YOM anyway). I think it still wouldn't be a universally loved song at all, but I don't think it would see quit as much hate as it gets, if not for that knowledge.

I think that's probably part of the hate for some people, although I couldn't care less about that, and the song is still not very good to me, so it would still be considered one of DT's lesser songs imo. But it's not completely terrible. There are still worse DT songs. I mean, there's always WDADU.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2013, 09:13:55 AM
Isn't it funny how Rule number 12 is basically thrown out the window in this thread? :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Big Hath on April 15, 2013, 10:52:12 AM
No more clunker ballads.  FFH & BTS on ADTOE definitely lived up to their titles.  The only two songs that kept it from being a highly consistent album.  I skip them every time.  The album ends with a whimper on BTS, not a bang.  If they want to slow things down fine, but do it within a longer more progressive song.  The stand alone ballads are getting old.  I hope they do away with them on this next album.

THANK YOU. It's a fizzle ending. I don't mind FFH though. I think that one had some emotion to it, and was a nice song. Not as good as older stuff like Vacant or Disappear though.

I sort of agree on BTS.  But I am not a fan of Disappear at all.  I almost always skip that track or hit eject to put in disc 2 if I'm in the car.  And for me, about the only redeeming quality for Vacant is it's introduction to Stream of Consciousness.

If I'm listening to 6DOIT (disc 1) and TOT, it's because I want my face melted with awesome heaviness.  Those two tracks seem really out of place for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 11:31:16 AM
I'd take You Not Me over Innocence Faded, The Great Debate and New Millennium.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 15, 2013, 11:39:59 AM
I'd take You Not Me over Innocence Faded
I'd take any guy over the guy who takes YNM over IF.


Bit of a joke BUT WHY. IF is the ultimate "young JLB is awesome" song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 15, 2013, 11:53:02 AM
Looks like YNM is experiencing an unexpected surge of popularity. I am not that fond of IF, but come on!  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 11:56:02 AM
Bit of a joke BUT WHY. IF is the ultimate "young JLB is awesome" song.

How's that? He takes his vocals further on many other songs on the album, not the least of which are Scarred and Voices. What makes IF the 'ultimate' in that department?

Also, I do like IF better than Erotomania. So on that note, I'd take YNM over Erotomania.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: theseoafs on April 15, 2013, 11:56:48 AM
I'd take You Not Me over Innocence Faded, The Great Debate and New Millennium.

I have never seen more fail in a single sentence.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 15, 2013, 12:00:34 PM
What makes IF the 'ultimate' in that department?
It's not about how far they're taken, it's just his tone there, and the way that the whole vocaled-section of the song is completely built on him, and it just goes more and more spectacular, and then when the lyrics are over, that solo-section comes on, like it says "oh yeah and this is the awesome instrumental stuff we didn't cram in there because it would be overshadowed otherwise" :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 15, 2013, 12:00:50 PM
I'd take You Not Me over Innocence Faded, The Great Debate and New Millennium.
YNM is better than New Millennium, but TGD and IF - seriously?! :o
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2013, 12:01:38 PM
This thread is just proof that every imaginable opinion is held by some fan out there.  I am waiting for the "I like You Not Me more than Metropolis" post from someone. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: theseoafs on April 15, 2013, 12:02:19 PM
I mean, You Not Me is better Metropolis, but that's neither here nor there.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2013, 12:03:15 PM
Cute.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 12:07:35 PM
It's not about how far they're taken, it's just his tone there, and the way that the whole vocaled-section of the song is completely built on him, and it just goes more and more spectacular, and then when the lyrics are over, that solo-section comes on, like it says "oh yeah and this is the awesome instrumental stuff we didn't cram in there because it would be overshadowed otherwise" :biggrin:

The whole reason IF lacks any kind of impact on me, is because honestly, to me it sounds almost like a straight up Rush song. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if I want to hear a Rush song, I'll listen to Rush.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 15, 2013, 12:09:44 PM
You not me = Misunderstood quality wise
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2013, 12:11:01 PM
Innocence Faded doesn't sound like Rush.  At all.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 12:14:46 PM
You not me = Misunderstood quality wise

I don't know what that means, but Misunderstood is amazing.

Innocence Faded doesn't sound like Rush.  At all.

I think it does. Honestly, I think it sounds more "Rushy" than any other Dream Theater song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2013, 12:16:01 PM
Rush fan for 22 years now, DT for 20, and I have never listened to Innocence Faded and thought, "This sounds like Rush."  I think you need new ears.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 12:16:50 PM
Rush fan for 22 years now, DT for 20, and I have never listened to Innocence Faded and thought, "This sounds like Rush."  I think you need new ears.

Yeah, well the jerk store called, they're runnin' outa YOU!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2013, 12:17:55 PM
What's the difference?  You're their all-time best seller.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 12:18:26 PM
What's the difference?  You're their all-time best seller.
Well, I had sex with your wife!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 15, 2013, 12:19:44 PM
I love how confused non-Seinfeld fans have to be right now. :lol :lol :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 12:22:24 PM
 :rollin
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Podaar on April 15, 2013, 12:30:48 PM
What's the difference?  You're their all-time best seller.
Well, I had sex with your wife!

His wife's in a coma...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Big Hath on April 15, 2013, 12:42:33 PM
What's the difference?  You're their all-time best seller.
Well, I had sex with your wife!

His wife's in a coma...

oh geeeez, I'm rolling!!!   :rollin

that episode is so awesome
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 15, 2013, 12:44:20 PM
You not me = Misunderstood quality wise

I don't know what that means, but Misunderstood is amazing.

I wanted to say that IMO Misunderstood sucks as hard as YNM does  :smiley:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 12:45:52 PM
You not me = Misunderstood quality wise

I don't know what that means, but Misunderstood is amazing.

I wanted to say that IMO Misunderstood sucks as hard as YNM does  :smiley:

Well, if you have a bunch of people talking about how YNM isn't that bad, or people like me who actually quite like it, you can understand how that statement can be a little confusing. I was like, "Sure, I guess... Does that mean he likes it or hates it?"
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 15, 2013, 12:47:38 PM
I realised that too after your statement. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lolzeez on April 15, 2013, 01:05:01 PM
The 1993 version of ACOS is better.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 01:11:54 PM
The 1993 version of ACOS is better.

I think some of the lyrics were definitely better. I mean, it just kills me every time MP repeats a word to force a rhyme:

"Look around, hear the sound, cherish your life while you're still around"

As opposed to the original,

"Look around, and hear the sound, another time like this can't be found"

Yeah, it's not quite as poetic, but it still gets the message across, and it doesn't freakin' repeat a word to make it rhyme!

Although to be fair, I do enjoy the lyrics in Another World better in the 1995 version.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on April 15, 2013, 04:16:06 PM
^ Found rhymes with Around, doesn't it? I don't think he would've changed that part for that reason.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 15, 2013, 07:10:25 PM
^ Found rhymes with Around, doesn't it? I don't think he would've changed that part for that reason.

It does, but I just think the whole wording of that phrase, "another time like this can't be found" doesn't flow with the music as well as, "Cherish your life.."... Actually, that's the main problem with all the original lyrics that were changed, was that they just flowed really weird with the music. But still, rhyming the same word with itself is something bad rappers do, I think MP is better than that, ESPECIALLY if he already had something else.

But I might be one of the only ones who has a problem with this. Just like I have a problem with him rhyming "Open" three times at the end of Glass Prison.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheLordOfTheStrings on April 16, 2013, 12:34:09 AM
  • Derek Sherinian is better than JR.
I'm sorry, but your opinion is just.. wrong.











And that's my controversial opinion.  ;D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 16, 2013, 11:06:55 AM
I like Blind Faith's chorus. It's quite good.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: YtseJamittaja on April 16, 2013, 12:37:04 PM
I never found Metropolis pt. 2 so interesting and awesome than others. I think it's one of the weakest albums by DT.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 16, 2013, 12:51:56 PM
I never found Metropolis pt. 2 so interesting and awesome than others. I think it's one of the weakest albums by DT.

The power of Christ compels you! The power of Christ compels you!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on April 16, 2013, 01:24:51 PM
I like Blind Faith's chorus. It's quite good.
Exactly!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 16, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
The 1993 version of ACOS is better.

Is that the mercy fuck version?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 16, 2013, 01:48:56 PM
The 1993 version of ACOS is better.

Is that the mercy fuck version?

Nah that's the version on the New York '93 Official Boot with Kevin. The original version. I think that Mercy Fuck was only said in like one show during the SFAM tour?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 16, 2013, 01:59:32 PM
I'd have to ask Wey, but I think it was done more than once.  I could be completely wrong, though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 16, 2013, 02:10:14 PM
He would know. I think it was done on the last show of the Metrolpolis 2000 (10/21/2000  London, England). That's all I know.


personally I think it should have been kept in in the first place :)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 16, 2013, 02:11:19 PM
Oh, I totally agree.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Weymolith on April 16, 2013, 02:13:09 PM
The "Mercy Fuck" ACOS was actually 6/9/1995 if memory serves.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 16, 2013, 02:17:24 PM
rhyming the same word with itself is something bad rappers do, I think MP is better than that,
Why do you think he's better than that?  He's done it more than once.  I see no reason to think he's better than that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 16, 2013, 02:29:39 PM
I agree with the so-far nonexistent people who think "mercy fuck" is worse than "sympathy" there.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 16, 2013, 02:36:14 PM
The "Mercy Fuck" ACOS was actually 6/9/1995 if memory serves.

We are both right

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=298

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=589

:dangerwillrobinson:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lolzeez on April 16, 2013, 02:38:52 PM
I agree with the so-far nonexistent people who think "mercy fuck" is worse than "sympathy" there.
I'm with you.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 16, 2013, 02:46:24 PM
The "Mercy Fuck" ACOS was actually 6/9/1995 if memory serves.

We are both right

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=298 (http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=298)

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=589 (http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=589)

:dangerwillrobinson:

Aha!  So it WAS done more than once. :hat

I agree with the so-far nonexistent people who think "mercy fuck" is worse than "sympathy" there.
I'm with you.
:(
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 16, 2013, 02:57:49 PM
The "Mercy Fuck" ACOS was actually 6/9/1995 if memory serves.

We are both right

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=298 (http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=298)

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=589 (http://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=589)

:dangerwillrobinson:

Aha!  So it WAS done more than once. :hat




 Well in my dedence.. I remember reading about it in the tourography on MP.com (I used to study it extensively when bored) and I remember a note saying it was the ONLY time it was done. But I also know it was included in the outtakes from the Metropolis tour.


EVERYONE SURVIVED WINS!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 16, 2013, 03:01:43 PM
Ah, yeah, I have both performances! I'm not sure it is controversial, but the mercy fuck would have been quite out of place in the lyrics, IMO.

Plus, I like BMUBMD.  :blush
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 16, 2013, 03:03:06 PM
Plus, I like BMUBMD.  :blush

BMUBMD IS A GREAT SONG DON'T BE EMBARASSED

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 16, 2013, 03:14:02 PM
Plus, I like BMUBMD.  :blush

BMUBMD IS A GREAT SONG DON'T BE EMBARASSED

Tell it to the serbian girl!  :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 16, 2013, 03:41:25 PM
No, DON'T tell it to me Jay :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 16, 2013, 03:49:37 PM
No, DON'T tell it to me Jay :D

I don't hear anything :JayOctavarium:


Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 16, 2013, 04:05:53 PM
Penguins can't hear a thing when they flap their wings frantically for the purpose.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 16, 2013, 05:06:24 PM
Burning My Soul is actually pretty decent, as is Just Let Me Breathe. Ok, all the goofy songs on Falling into Infinity are pretty decent.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JoeG on April 16, 2013, 07:11:44 PM
Burning My Soul is actually pretty decent, as is Just Let Me Breathe. Ok, all the goofy songs on Falling into Infinity are pretty decent.

Agreed. Falling into Infinity is my #3 DT album. Anna Lee and You not Me are the only songs on it that are merely passable, everything else ranges from good to fantastic. Most of the B-sides are quite good too.

Other controversial opinions:

Sacrificed Sons is the best song on Octavarium.
The Best of Times is the best song on BC&SL and is a top 10 DT song.
The Glass Prison and the title track are two of the weaker points of SDOIT.
ACOS is massively overrated.
"The Reckoning" is one of the better parts of ITPOE, which is overall a very strong song.
Every Live at Budokan performance of a Train of Thought song is superior to the album version.
Only a Matter of Time is a top 20 DT song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: orcus116 on April 16, 2013, 07:28:40 PM
I like Blind Faith's chorus. It's quite good.

It's not so much the chorus as the complete 180 jump into it. Even the pre-chorus doesn't really set it up right.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 16, 2013, 07:33:40 PM
Sounds like a build up to me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 16, 2013, 09:10:41 PM
Sounds like a build up to me.

I agree. I think there's a clear build-up there.
I can see the complaints about BF's chorus, as the pre-chorus and chorus were always one of the weaker parts of the song for me stopping me from getting into it, but I don't think the build-up is the problem there.

Burning My Soul is actually pretty decent, as is Just Let Me Breathe. Ok, all the goofy songs on Falling into Infinity are pretty decent.

I agree. BMS is cheesy, but I like it in a bonehead metal kind of way. And I really like JLMB too. The only songs I don't like on the album are YNM and TAMP, and I find both at least tolerable.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 16, 2013, 09:23:01 PM
TAMP is one of the best on the album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 16, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
My problem with TAMP is mostly the vibe of it. KILLER guitar solo though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wolfking on April 16, 2013, 10:30:13 PM
Burning My Soul is actually pretty decent, as is Just Let Me Breathe. Ok, all the goofy songs on Falling into Infinity are pretty decent.

I really like both those songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 16, 2013, 10:48:15 PM
I agree with the so-far nonexistent people who think "mercy fuck" is worse than "sympathy" there.

I totally agree.  Mercy fuck would have sounded stupid in the studio version.  THANK GOD it was changed to sympathy.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 16, 2013, 10:59:44 PM
I agree with the so-far nonexistent people who think "mercy fuck" is worse than "sympathy" there.

I totally agree.  Mercy fuck would have sounded stupid in the studio version.  THANK GOD it was changed to sympathy.
Yeah, this.
Plus, I like BMUBMD.  :blush
It is a good song, although my least favorite on ADTOE. I still can't believe it was beaten by Never Enough in the league... :facepalm: I also agree with those who don't mind Burning My Soul - it's not overtly great, but I think there are 5 weaker songs on FII. Oh, and the Blind Faith chorus rules!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: YtseJamittaja on April 17, 2013, 12:59:23 AM
Burning My Soul's has one of DT's most badass intros ever. Blind Faith chorus is good in studio version but oh gosh, how awful CIM version is.......

Also,
I like much more BC&SL mixing than ADTOE's. Latest's mix is much too weak and cold.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 17, 2013, 01:18:13 AM
Burning My Soul's has one of DT's most badass intros ever. Blind Faith chorus is good in studio version but oh gosh, how awful CIM version is.......

How true! I liked the original version of BMS with Hell's Kitchen inside, but without it... Not so much  :-\
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on April 17, 2013, 02:00:23 AM
Plus, I like BMUBMD.  :blush

Get. Out.

 :biggrin:

Only a Matter of Time is a top 20 DT song.

The most definately, YES!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: sylvinception on April 17, 2013, 03:30:55 AM
I definitely LOVE "You not me" on the FII album!!
The chorus is awesome!!

Do I have to get out ?? :loser:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 17, 2013, 03:34:06 AM
Hey, this is the controversial thread! Nobody has to get our for a controversial opinion of his/hers!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: sylvinception on April 17, 2013, 04:23:25 AM
Of course!! ;D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wolfking on April 17, 2013, 04:27:12 AM
A controversial opinion:........um.......there is no dvd!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 17, 2013, 04:31:48 AM
I think that's a controversial fact...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Bolsters on April 17, 2013, 04:33:37 AM
"Thanks to Over The Edge for all the controversy!"
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wolfking on April 17, 2013, 04:48:19 AM
I think that's a controversial fact...

I don't care.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Full Speed on April 17, 2013, 06:55:03 AM
I never found Metropolis pt. 2 so interesting and awesome than others. I think it's one of the weakest albums by DT.

Same. It was the first DT album I got into but it didn't do a whole lot for me. When SDOIT came out is when I really got into DT and got into their past material (most of which I prefer to SFAM).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: tuto on April 17, 2013, 02:11:45 PM
I absolutely LOVE New Millennium, and I mean FUCKING LOVE IT  :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LieLowTheWantedMan on April 17, 2013, 05:08:50 PM
I agree with the so-far nonexistent people who think "mercy fuck" is worse than "sympathy" there.

I totally agree.  Mercy fuck would have sounded stupid in the studio version.  THANK GOD it was changed to sympathy.
Yeah. Then I'd have a new least favourite DT lyric and it'd beat out:
"So I hurt your feelings
Well I'm really sorry
But I don't give a shit
NOOOOO"

Okay, maybe it wouldn't beat it. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PixelDream on April 17, 2013, 06:16:32 PM

Also,
I like much more BC&SL mixing than ADTOE's. Latest's mix is much too weak and cold.

That's exactly what I thought when I first listened to the album. The sound doesn't appeal to me at all, it's lifeless and flat. The strongest moment when it comes to mixing is when Jordan's electronic beat in Outcry comes in. Wallace mixed that in really loud, and it shows. It's an electronic sound, and it has more life to it than the entire record, sound-wise.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 17, 2013, 07:16:37 PM
My controversial Opinion (theory) on DT:

  Had Portnoy not began writing his AA saga....which subsequently led to taking multiple albums to complete....he would have left DT years ago. I think that MP's desire to be a perfectionist with his music and ideas wouldn't allow him to leave that unfinished and that was a major contributor keeping him around. I have no evidence other than observation and reading interviews/stories... how he's handled himself, what's been said by he and DT members.....how it all went down......I just really think that he'd have left years ago had he not began that AA suite.



I know MP is around these parts every now and then so if he (you) happen to read.....not trying to be mean MP.....just a controversial opinion of mine.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 17, 2013, 07:21:11 PM
I think technically, that would make it a controversial hypothesis. But very interesting.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: gmillerdrake on April 17, 2013, 07:22:55 PM
I think technically, that would make it a controversial hypothesis. But very interesting.
Dang it! :( :censored I'm always getting caught on technicalities.....
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dark Castle on April 17, 2013, 09:36:11 PM
Train of Thought is a flat out bad album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 17, 2013, 10:04:44 PM
Your face etc, etc.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on April 17, 2013, 11:31:16 PM
Train of Thought is a flat out badass album.

Fixed. :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 17, 2013, 11:35:55 PM
Train of Thought is a flat out bad album.

Almost true for me. There are a few redeemimg moments, though  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 18, 2013, 03:24:09 AM
Train of Thought is a flat out badass album.

Fixed. :metal
:metal :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 18, 2013, 07:19:12 AM
Train of Thought is a flat out badass album.

Fixed. :metal
:metal :metal

 :metal :metal  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lolzeez on April 18, 2013, 08:47:16 AM
BMU BMD is my least fav song by DT. Yes.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 18, 2013, 08:52:03 AM
That's not controversial.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 18, 2013, 09:20:48 AM
I guess this is controversial depending on one's opinion, but IMO Train of Thought > Falling into Infinity
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 18, 2013, 09:36:51 AM
I guess this is controversial depending on one's opinion, but IMO Train of Thought > Falling into Infinity
:metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Onno on April 18, 2013, 09:39:47 AM
I guess this is controversial depending on one's opinion, but IMO Train of Thought > Falling into Infinity
That's not controversial; at least not for me :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 18, 2013, 09:44:10 AM
I guess this is controversial depending on one's opinion, but IMO Train of Thought > Falling into Infinity

I think both have their fair share of lovers and haters for that not to be too controversial. I personally prefer FII, but ToT is a solid metal album with some of my favourite DT songs. :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 18, 2013, 09:52:26 AM
I think both have their fair share of lovers and haters for that not to be too controversial.
Yeah, I thought it might be controversial at least for some people, because both albums seem to be loved and hated almost equally.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 18, 2013, 10:38:44 AM
YOU KNOW WHAT?

ToT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awake.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on April 18, 2013, 10:48:48 AM
YOU KNOW WHAT?

ToT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awake.

Hell to the fucking no. Train of Thought isn't bad, but Awake is a masterpiece.

To bring some controversy from my side:

1. Falling into Infinity > Scenes from a Memory
2. Everything > Octavarium
3. I actually don't mind You Not Me. It's better than New Millenium.
4. I enjoy Prophets of War from time to time.

The following aren't really controversial, but more like things that have recently changed and would definitely be noticed by people familiar with my taste:

1. The Glass Prison has grown on me quite a while. For a long time, it was too one-dimensional and samey throughout, but I'm really starting to enjoy the relentless assault that it offers. Still my least favourite on SDOIT, but that's my favourite album, so that doesn't really mean a lot.
2. Six Degrees is actually quite cool as a song, though the Overture still bores me to tears. After that, though, every second is pretty damn awesome.
3. Panic Attack is actually pretty fun and has recently revealed itself as one of the four saving graces on Octavarium. The rest ranges from decent but boring (the title track) to downright awful (the rest).
4. Afterlife has really climbed my ranking, while TKH has dropped. In fact, I'd consider it my favourite off of WDADU right now.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 18, 2013, 10:54:39 AM
YOU KNOW WHAT?

ToT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awake.

Hell to the fucking no. Train of Thought isn't bad, but Awake is a masterpiece.
This. I also agree that YNM > NM and Afterlife is the best song on WDADU.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 18, 2013, 10:56:28 AM
YOU KNOW WHAT?

ToT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awake.

Hell to the fucking yes. ITNOG alone >>>>> Awake.




Oh come on. Like you didn't all know I'd be agreeing with this one. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 18, 2013, 10:56:43 AM
YOU KNOW WHAT?

ToT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awake.

Hell to the fucking no. Train of Thought isn't bad, but Awake is a masterpiece.


humm what? dont think so!  :hat

You know what?

Octavarium > Awake.

Even the tittle sucks. :tdwn
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 18, 2013, 10:57:57 AM
YOU KNOW WHAT?

ToT >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awake.

Hell to the fucking yes. ITNOG alone >>>>> Awake.




Oh come on. Like you didn't all know I'd be agreeing with this one. :lol

My all time DT fav song!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 18, 2013, 11:23:39 AM
I think both ToT and Octavarium are much more consistent albums than Awake is. And Octavarium on the whole, gives a much better (probably the best) representation of just what incredible range Dream Theater has in terms of music.

Also, the title track is better than ACOS.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tomislav95 on April 18, 2013, 11:24:10 AM
Awake>>>>>everything else
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 18, 2013, 11:28:05 AM
Awake>>>>>everything else Metallica has ever done.

Fixed  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 18, 2013, 11:28:29 AM
I think both ToT and Octavarium are much more consistent albums than Awake is. And Octavarium on the whole, gives a much better (probably the best) representation of just what incredible range Dream Theater has in terms of music.

Also, the title track is better than ACOS.

Amen.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 18, 2013, 12:18:56 PM
Also, the title track is better than ACOS.

Ayup.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 18, 2013, 12:37:02 PM
I think both ToT and Octavarium are much more consistent albums than Awake is. And Octavarium on the whole, gives a much better (probably the best) representation of just what incredible range Dream Theater has in terms of music.

Also, the title track is better than ACOS.
:heart
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Buddyhunter1 on April 18, 2013, 12:41:21 PM
Also, the title track is better than ACOS.

Ayup.

Mmmhmm.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on April 18, 2013, 01:04:55 PM
Oh, and the Blind Faith chorus rules!
This! It's the first thing that really grabbed me while listening to the song the first few times. I think that, along with Jordan's solos, it's the highlight of the song. Definitely one of my favorite choruses ever and it never fails to make me spread my arms while singing it facing the ceiling. The live version is a different story, of course.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on April 18, 2013, 02:56:56 PM
Also, the title track is better than ACOS.

Ayup.

I also agree! It's not by a WHOLE lot, but 8V definitely sparks more of an emotional reaction from me than ACOS does. ACOS is awesome though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on April 18, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
I absolutely LOVE New Millennium, and I mean FUCKING LOVE IT  :metal

Agreed.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 18, 2013, 09:59:14 PM
I absolutely LOVE New Millennium, and I mean FUCKING LOVE IT  :metal

Agreed.

I don't. But I dunno, I think it has a big enough following not to consider that very controversial.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on April 19, 2013, 02:56:33 AM
Everything on Awake > ITNOG.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: YtseJamittaja on April 19, 2013, 04:12:49 AM
Endless Sacrifice is my top5 DT songs. Haters gonna hate.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on April 19, 2013, 04:40:41 AM
Endless Sacrifice is my top5 DT songs. Haters gonna hate.
I'm with you!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 19, 2013, 05:16:28 AM
Everything on Awake < ITNOG.

I agree  :biggrin:  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 19, 2013, 05:29:53 AM
Awake>>>>>everything else
This man knows what's up! :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 19, 2013, 05:50:46 AM
Awake>>>>>everything else
This man knows what's up! :tup
"Everything else" = "universe", yes.

I am just completely serious.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 19, 2013, 06:07:55 AM
Awake>>>>>everything else
This man knows what's up! :tup

I can accept the > sign (I disagree, but not by far), but >>>>>>>> ? No way!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 19, 2013, 06:15:29 AM
It's just a more extreme way of saying that Awake is easily the best, which is something I wholeheartedly agree with.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 19, 2013, 06:28:59 AM
You know my opinion about it, I guess.

So, what are the reasons of those who hate Innocence Faded? Anyone here?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Curious Orange on April 19, 2013, 06:36:26 AM
Here's my controversial opinion -

Something is wrong in DT land.

If the Luna Park DVD is coming out in May (or anytime soon) we should have had a release date by now.

If the new album / tour routine is on schedule, we should have had the first European dates announced by now.

Nothing but silence from DT. Something is wrong.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 19, 2013, 06:48:56 AM
Here's my controversial opinion -

Something is wrong in DT land.

If the Luna Park DVD is coming out in May (or anytime soon) we should have had a release date by now.

If the new album / tour routine is on schedule, we should have had the first European dates announced by now.

Nothing but silence from DT. Something is wrong.

Noup, just think about it.

Pre, production and post on new album
Pre on new tour.
Post on DVD.

That's a shit load of work to do... is pretty normal some silence while doing all this.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 19, 2013, 09:20:35 AM
Everything on Awake > ITNOG.

Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lie, Scarred, and Space Dye Vest.

Not even exaggerating. I'll take YNM on repeat before any of those. As bad as it is, it's at least bearable.


COME AT ME BROS.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 19, 2013, 09:31:50 AM
I think both ToT and Octavarium are much more consistent albums than Awake is.
Regardless of comparisons to other albums, I don't see anything consistent about Octavarium.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on April 19, 2013, 09:33:43 AM
Blob, what would you consider to be DT's single worst song?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 19, 2013, 09:43:35 AM
I think both ToT and Octavarium are much more consistent albums than Awake is.
Regardless of comparisons to other albums, I don't see anything consistent about Octavarium.

What? Hef, go home, you're drunk... hahahahah.. i love this thread.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 19, 2013, 09:55:53 AM
Everything on Awake > ITNOG.

Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lie, Scarred, and Space Dye Vest.

Not even exaggerating. I'll take YNM on repeat before any of those. As bad as it is, it's at least bearable.


COME AT ME BROS.
I think both ToT and Octavarium are much more consistent albums than Awake is.
Regardless of comparisons to other albums, I don't see anything consistent about Octavarium.


These posts shock me  :omg:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 19, 2013, 10:04:02 AM
Regardless of comparisons to other albums, I don't see anything consistent about Octavarium.
Me neither.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 19, 2013, 10:04:32 AM
Blob, what would you consider to be DT's single worst song?

Below a certain threshold, it's hard for me to compare them and choose one over another, because I simply can't even listen to them. There are very few DT songs I put in that category though, as I don't mind a lot of the songs that others dislike, and for me DT have the highest hit ratio of any band I listen to.

The legitimate contenders for what I consider DT's worst song would include Status Seeker, Light Fuse and Get Away, The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun, Scarred, and Only a Matter of Time. But in all honesty, I'd probably place Only a Matter of Time slightly above them, because it's listenable despite being a flawed song from start to finish, and has some good ideas in there, and maybe Scarred too, because it has a decent enough intro up until the heavy section, or maybe even up till the chorus (which I honestly consider the worst "chorus" DT has ever written, excluding a couple of WDADU songs where I don't even know how the chorus goes).
I really do consider Scarred to be DT's worst song this side of WDADU. The only other song I'd consider a contender is Never Enough, but there's much more of that song I can enjoy, and when Octavarium came out, I listened to it. There are a few other DT songs that I consider to be on the bad side, but can still listen to occasionally and enjoy.

There are only a very small number of other DT songs I'd say I strongly dislike, but I don't put them anywhere near the bottom ones just mentioned. There are other songs I'm notorious for hating on, but my issues with those are much more minor compared to the ones mentioned, even songs like Lie or SDV. Lie is one of those songs that I can occasionally enjoy, and I'm more indifferent to SDV than anything else.

I hope that post doesn't come across as too "bashy", because I'm just trying to be clear with how I feel about certain songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on April 19, 2013, 11:30:19 AM
So, what are the reasons of those who hate Innocence Faded? Anyone here?

No one hates Innocence Faded!

*sticks fingers in ears and sings Twinkle Twinkle little star very loud*
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Knguro on April 19, 2013, 11:43:16 AM
So, what are the reasons of those who hate Innocence Faded? Anyone here?

No one hates Innocence Faded!

*sticks fingers in ears and sings Twinkle Twinkle little star very loud*
:rollin
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 19, 2013, 11:45:36 AM
So, what are the reasons of those who hate Innocence Faded? Anyone here?
I don't hate it. in the grand scheme of music, I quite like it, but I still think that it, along with Lifting Shadows Off a Dream, are two of the least interesting songs on Awake, and among some of the least interesting songs in DT's entire catalog. There's nothing wrong with having a straight forward shorter song, lord knows DT's had its share, but IF just feels so... Wishy washy. I don't know. I'm not going to dissect it, to try and figure out specifically what I don't like about it. But as far as DT goes, the song has some nice melodies and that's it, everything else about it is a tad dull.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 19, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
So, what are the reasons of those who hate Innocence Faded? Anyone here?

No one hates Innocence Faded!

*sticks fingers in ears and sings Twinkle Twinkle little star very loud*

 :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 19, 2013, 12:34:27 PM
I still don't get Blob's hate for Scarred. It's heavy, intense, sung kickassedly by JLB, has a beautiful melodic section in the middle, a kick ass solo and outro. And LSOAD is a beautiful ballad. Space Dye Vest is just OK, but the other songs are amazing.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 19, 2013, 03:25:58 PM
I've given up understanding the hatred for Scarred. I will just never get it, and I was explained the reason for it by prominent haters (blob, zy) multiple times.  :millahhhh
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 19, 2013, 07:13:37 PM
I forgot to mention that it's fun as hell to sing along to.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 19, 2013, 08:13:48 PM
I forgot to mention that it's fun as hell to sing along to.

That it is. And JLB agrees.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 20, 2013, 01:40:44 AM
Yeah! He recently stated that it is his favourite song to sing on stage!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: RandalGraves on April 20, 2013, 06:31:15 AM
I'm happy Storm won't be doing the new album cover.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 20, 2013, 06:33:28 AM
I've given up understanding the hatred for Scarred. I will just never get it, and I was explained the reason for it by prominent haters (blob, zy) multiple times.  :millahhhh
Same here.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 20, 2013, 06:45:22 AM
I'm happy Storm won't be doing the new album cover.
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn431/Moriel_Alcaril/reaction/tumblr_m9jd48jgS51qjivys_zps0afd9595.png)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 20, 2013, 06:46:47 AM
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have done the new cover anyway...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 20, 2013, 07:03:25 AM
I still don't get Blob's hate for Scarred. It's heavy, intense, sung kickassedly by JLB, has a beautiful melodic section in the middle, a kick ass solo and outro. And LSOAD is a beautiful ballad. Space Dye Vest is just OK, but the other songs are amazing.

The chorus melody is so poor that it sounds like they just randomly went up and down the scale to write it, and the first phrase ends on a complete nowhere note that doesn't do anything. It's completely careless. And those church bells sound so misplaced and confused. It makes me wince every time I attempt to listen to it, like nails on a chalkboard to me.
And the outro is out of nowhere tacked on, and completely unnecessary, and tries to be all proggy for the sake of it, and loses all sense of melody and rhythm in the process.

I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces.


I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have done the new cover anyway...

I agree. I really don't see them switching from Hugh Syme. He just recently did the Luna Park cover, so I'd be pretty sure he'll do DT12 too.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 20, 2013, 07:06:39 AM
I really like it that people hate Scarred because every time I see someone criticizing it, I feel the need to play it again and then I rock out like nobody's business :metal :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 20, 2013, 07:12:28 AM
Yes, it's really a good time to give it a spin and loving it :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 20, 2013, 07:15:16 AM
"it calms me to know that I WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON'T" :heart
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on April 20, 2013, 07:20:34 AM
I'm happy Storm won't be doing the new album cover.

What!?!?! I always thought Storm would do an awesome cover if his was given half a chance.

I'm so tired of Hugh Syme's work on DT albums, it's so uninspired and comes off really lazy.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on April 20, 2013, 02:37:06 PM
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces.
.

Even though your opinion is wrong I do not agree with you... this is amazing.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 20, 2013, 06:23:46 PM
Although a lot of people actually like scarred, so having a ton of people defending it isn't exactly controversial.

It took a long, long, long time for Scarred to grow on me, so I can understand why some people don't like it. And why some do.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 21, 2013, 08:03:45 PM
I'm happy Storm won't be doing the new album cover.
(http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn431/Moriel_Alcaril/reaction/tumblr_m9jd48jgS51qjivys_zps0afd9595.png)

No shit.

"it calms me to know that I WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON'T" :heart

:hearts:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Nekov on April 22, 2013, 07:25:49 AM
Regardless of comparisons to other albums, I don't see anything consistent about Octavarium.
Me neither.

I beg to differ. No matter how many times you listen to it, Octavarium will always suck. That's consistent
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 22, 2013, 07:41:28 AM
Regardless of comparisons to other albums, I don't see anything consistent about Octavarium.
Me neither.

I beg to differ. No matter how many times you listen to it, Octavarium will always suck. That's consistent
:lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 22, 2013, 07:45:21 AM
Regardless of comparisons to other albums, I don't see anything consistent about Octavarium.
Me neither.

I beg to differ. No matter how many times you listen to it, Octavarium will always suck. That's consistent

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/trollavarium.jpg)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: eric42434224 on April 22, 2013, 11:19:08 AM
I have always wondered what DT would have been like with a different style singer.
Maybe a singer that can play some rhythm guitar as well to fill in certain areas.
I have always felt that JLB and his style, even though he is great at what he does, has been a factor in their commercial success.
I had a dream Chris Cornell joined DT.  It was a good dream.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 23, 2013, 12:22:46 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/BlobVanDam/trollavarium.jpg)

 :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on April 24, 2013, 08:01:01 PM
(Most likely the most controversial post in the thread)

Octavarium is their best album (title track is their best song)

Stream of Consciousness is their best instrumental

BC&SL is better than SDOIT

The unreleased album will be better than the greatness of ADToE, BC&SL, and SC combined

The Root of All Evil is the best of the 12 step suite

Luna Park will be their greatest live DVD

Under A Glass Moon is the best song off I&W

FII is more listenable than ToT

The Killing Hand and Only A Matter of Time are amazing.

Hell's Kitchen is probably their 3rd-best instrumental. (dance of eternity is second)

6:00 is the best song on Awake

Hell's Kitchen/Trial of Tears are the best songs off FII

Breaking All Illusions is the best song off ADToE (and has the second most time signature changes in a DT song)

The unreleased album's instrumental will be the best one they've created

The unreleased album will be the best they've ever created
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 24, 2013, 08:07:18 PM
Claiming controversial opinions on things that haven't happened yet is kind of silly.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on April 24, 2013, 08:12:32 PM
Claiming controversial opinions on things that haven't happened yet is kind of silly.

Controversial prediction?  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 24, 2013, 08:22:41 PM
It still doesn't make much sense. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 24, 2013, 10:28:00 PM
Claiming controversial opinions on things that haven't happened yet is kind of silly.

Yeah, it's not really an "opinion" as such when it's not based on something.

Not to mention that the last prediction would be pretty much impossible anyway.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on April 25, 2013, 12:38:53 AM
Stream of Consciousness is their best instrumental

FII is more listenable than ToT

The Killing Hand and Only A Matter of Time are amazing.

These ones are true.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 25, 2013, 04:08:16 AM
The Root of All Evil is the best of the 12 step suite

The Killing Hand and Only A Matter of Time are amazing.

Hell's Kitchen/Trial of Tears are the best songs off FII
I would add Lines in the Sand to the list of best songs on FII, but otherwise I agree with these points.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 25, 2013, 04:45:48 AM
Stream of Consciousness is their best instrumental
I would agree if Overture 1928 didn't exist.


BC&SL is better than SDOIT
As a whole, possibly yes. As for individual songs, both have some amazing stuff, both have some pretty shitty stuff. So I'm not sure.


Breaking All Illusions is the best song off ADToE
Tied with BITS, but yes.


6:00 is the best song on Awake
I wouldn't say #1, but definitely one of the best.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dublagent66 on April 25, 2013, 11:35:27 AM

BC&SL is better than SDOIT


I think if you started a poll with those two albums to see which is better, SDOIT would win by a landslide.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: KevShmev on April 25, 2013, 11:45:45 AM

Under A Glass Moon is the best song off I&W

6:00 is the best song on Awake


Why is Under a Glass Moon OFF Images and Words, but 6:00 is ON Awake? ??? ???



 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 25, 2013, 11:54:03 AM

BC&SL is better than SDOIT


I think if you started a poll with those two albums to see which is better, SDOIT would win by a landslide.
Yeah - ADTOE got 90% of the votes in the "ADTOE vs BC&SL" poll, so I bet Six Degrees would do just as well, if not better.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 25, 2013, 11:54:31 AM
Because 6:00 is ON ON ON like a bad bad thing :hat
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 25, 2013, 12:11:48 PM
Here's two new ones from me:

SFAM, while it has some really good songs, is REALLY corny in spots.

Oh, and the orgasm samples in Home just kill it for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on April 25, 2013, 12:20:08 PM
Here's two new ones from me:

SFAM, while it has some really good songs, is REALLY corny in spots.

Oh, and the orgasm samples in Home just kill it for me.

SFAM is my second favourite DT album, and I don't find either of these too controversial.

But I love corn. Well, musical corn, not regular corn. It's like wtf, why am I seeing you again? Don't you even digest?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 25, 2013, 12:22:00 PM
But I love corn. Well, musical corn, not regular corn. It's like wtf, why am I seeing you again? Don't you even digest?

Right?! :o ???
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 25, 2013, 01:11:09 PM
SFAM, while it has some really good songs, is REALLY corny in spots.
Agreed, although it's my 4th favorite album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 25, 2013, 03:17:28 PM
SFAM, while it has some really good songs, is REALLY corny in spots.

Enumerate, please!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mindflux on April 25, 2013, 03:30:42 PM
SFAM, while it has some really good songs, is REALLY corny in spots.

Enumerate, please!


Ragtime = Corny/Cheesy.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 25, 2013, 03:33:04 PM
It used to be one of my favourite moments in the DT catalogue in my first years of fandom" :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on April 25, 2013, 03:35:40 PM
SFAM, while it has some really good songs, is REALLY corny in spots.

Enumerate, please!
Through Her Eyes, especially because of the drum machine. It almost sounds like soft porn music, which is kinda appropriate I guess, but I digress. Theresa's contribution also adds to the cheesiness. Same goes for TSCO, which I really like, in spite of it being one of the most kitschy DT songs ever, besides Hollow Years.

It used to be one of my favourite moments in the DT catalogue in my first years of fandom" :D
Same here, it actually was my ringtone for a year.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 25, 2013, 03:38:20 PM
Nah, TSCO is just a great song. And there's nothing wrong wrong with Theresa's contribution.  :laugh: YOU HEARD MY CONTRO-CONTROVERSIAL OPINION
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 25, 2013, 04:11:00 PM
It almost sounds like soft porn music
Could anyone please be so kind to explain me some examples of porn music since I really don't know how it sounds like and I get comments like that on my music all the time :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Aythesryche on April 25, 2013, 04:30:12 PM
It almost sounds like soft porn music
Could anyone please be so kind to explain me some examples of porn music since I really don't know how it sounds like and I get comments like that on my music all the time :lol

The only porn music you'll ever need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1kApnsayeQ&sns=em
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 25, 2013, 04:38:34 PM
It almost sounds like soft porn music
Could anyone please be so kind to explain me some examples of porn music since I really don't know how it sounds like and I get comments like that on my music all the time :lol

The only porn music you'll ever need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1kApnsayeQ&sns=em
Thank you, this will entertain me. :D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 25, 2013, 04:39:03 PM
It almost sounds like soft porn music
Could anyone please be so kind to explain me some examples of porn music since I really don't know how it sounds like and I get comments like that on my music all the time :lol

The only porn music you'll ever need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1kApnsayeQ&sns=em

This comment just won the entire Galaxy  :lol

PascimanArc23 6 days ago

Dude!
This girl's pretty hot
take her to the spot
lifted
her skit
found out she's a...



And the music itself is looped so well that it's completely hypnotizing.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Aythesryche on April 25, 2013, 05:00:00 PM
There is a 10 hour version on there if you're feeling especially romantic. If you find yourself in need of a lover, all you need to do is drive around until you spot someone, blast this loop, roll down the window, suck in your cheeks Yngwie Malmsteen style and just sharply look at the person and he/she will just get in the car. Works eeeeevery time.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on April 25, 2013, 05:29:23 PM
And if you really want to swoon them, play this:

https://soundcloud.com/krotchraut/epic-majesty-guy
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Aythesryche on April 25, 2013, 07:06:27 PM
Yeeeeeeeeees! I had no idea those two would blend so well. :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on April 26, 2013, 03:10:48 AM
Daaaaaaaaaaaim.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on April 26, 2013, 03:20:09 AM
That's so... hypnotic.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JRuivo on April 26, 2013, 04:26:32 AM
There are several DT songs that I don't really care about, such as Space Dye Vest, Finally Free, Sacrificed Sons, The Great Debate, Forsaken, Endless Sacrifice and all of the songs on WDADU (except maybe for Ytse Jam). I simply don't feel the need to listen to any of those songs, that are among the worst (or least good  ::) ) DT songs. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on April 26, 2013, 05:44:46 AM
There are several DT songs that I don't really care about, such as Space Dye Vest, Finally Free, Sacrificed Sons, The Great Debate, Forsaken, Endless Sacrifice and all of the songs on WDADU (except maybe for Ytse Jam). I simply don't feel the need to listen to any of those songs, that are among the worst (or least good  ::) ) DT songs.
What. The. Hell.

Speaking about Endless Sacrifice: it's my #1 DT song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on April 26, 2013, 09:18:25 AM
There are several DT songs that I don't really care about, such as Space Dye Vest, Finally Free, Sacrificed Sons, The Great Debate, Forsaken, Endless Sacrifice and all of the songs on WDADU (except maybe for Ytse Jam). I simply don't feel the need to listen to any of those songs, that are among the worst (or least good  ::) ) DT songs.

I used to pretty much feel the same way about The Great Debate, it took a long time to grow on me. Sometimes I just fast forward the first few minutes when I want to listen to it, but then again I guess that doesn't really say anything good about the song.  :lol The chorus is awesome though, I think James' vocals are the highlight of the song  :tup Portnoy does a decent Danny Carey impression as well.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 26, 2013, 10:04:16 AM
I used to pretty much feel the same way about The Great Debate, it took a long time to grow on me. Sometimes I just fast forward the first few minutes when I want to listen to it, but then again I guess that doesn't really say anything good about the song.  :lol The chorus is awesome though, I think James' vocals are the highlight of the song  :tup Portnoy does a decent Danny Carey impression as well.

It's a good song, but even if it weren't for the lengthy intro, I'd still consider it the weakest track on the album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on April 26, 2013, 10:09:41 AM
It's the second strongest for me, and the lenghty intro is an absolute album highlight  :omg:

Is this something highly controversial?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on April 26, 2013, 10:17:00 AM
It's the second strongest for me, and the lenghty intro is an absolute album highlight  :omg:

Is this something highly controversial?

That is a tough one. I heard plenty of people who'd agree with you. But personally, I think they're crazy! Victims of inner turbulence, clearly.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cedar redaC on April 26, 2013, 11:45:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxopViU98Xo
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on April 26, 2013, 12:43:01 PM
It's the second strongest for me, and the lenghty intro is an absolute album highlight  :omg:

Is this something highly controversial?

I wouldn't go as far as saying an album highlight, but when I'm in the mood for it, the intro is awesome and sets the song up very nicely. Sometimes I don't have the patience to sit through it though  :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JRuivo on April 27, 2013, 11:07:20 AM
There are several DT songs that I don't really care about, such as Space Dye Vest, Finally Free, Sacrificed Sons, The Great Debate, Forsaken, Endless Sacrifice and all of the songs on WDADU (except maybe for Ytse Jam). I simply don't feel the need to listen to any of those songs, that are among the worst (or least good  ::) ) DT songs.

I used to pretty much feel the same way about The Great Debate, it took a long time to grow on me. Sometimes I just fast forward the first few minutes when I want to listen to it, but then again I guess that doesn't really say anything good about the song.  :lol The chorus is awesome though, I think James' vocals are the highlight of the song  :tup Portnoy does a decent Danny Carey impression as well.

I like it when I'm listening to the cd as a whole, but that's just one of those songs I wouldn't play for the sole purpose of jamming to it like I would with the other DT songs. Strangely enough, Awake, SFAM and SDOIT are my top#3 DT albums, and I included one song of each on the "meh" songs list  :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on April 27, 2013, 11:42:59 AM
Hey Flexo, where's your goatee?! :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JRuivo on April 27, 2013, 11:54:51 AM
Hey Flexo, where's your goatee?! :lol

I am the true Bender!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kingshmegland on April 27, 2013, 11:57:07 AM
 :lol

Looks at post count.  Then at a hot Robot DTF member.........
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on April 28, 2013, 04:32:41 PM
Hey Flexo, where's your goatee?! :lol

 :rollin
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grizz on May 07, 2013, 03:21:07 PM
This is probably a horrible way to have a first post, but here are my apparently very controversial opinions, which will probably become worse as I get older and nostalgia sets in:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 07, 2013, 03:23:47 PM
This is probably a horrible way to have a first post, but here are my apparently very controversial opinions, which will probably become worse as I get older and nostalgia sets in:
    I love Black Clouds and Silver Linings
    A Dramatic Turn of Events has to be one of my least favorite albums
    Petrucci is way too loud live, at least in my experience (the two shows that make me believe this are the Palladium show on July 10, 2010, and the Paramount show on July 19, 2012)
    Jordan's solos, especially in more recent years, need more rhyme and reason. They are starting to sound very random and noisy
    Most Portnoy hate is unwarranted
Dominici completely ruins When Dream and Day Unite. It's a damn shame too, because the music that I've been able to stomach is quite awesome.MOST of Awake bores me
John Petrucci can't sing whatsoever. (See: Sacrificed Sons on Score)
[/list]


WELCOME TO THE FORUM! :JayOctavarium:

You and I are now mortal enemies...










jk
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on May 07, 2013, 03:27:14 PM
This is probably a horrible way to have a first post, but here are my apparently very controversial opinions, which will probably become worse as I get older and nostalgia sets in:
    I love Black Clouds and Silver Linings
    A Dramatic Turn of Events has to be one of my least favorite albums
    Petrucci is way too loud live, at least in my experience (the two shows that make me believe this are the Palladium show on July 10, 2010, and the Paramount show on July 19, 2012)
    Jordan's solos, especially in more recent years, need more rhyme and reason. They are starting to sound very random and noisy
    Most Portnoy hate is unwarranted
    Dominici completely ruins When Dream and Day Unite. It's a damn shame too, because the music that I've been able to stomach is quite awesome.
    MOST of Awake bores me
    John Petrucci can't sing whatsoever. (See: Sacrificed Sons on Score)

I love Black Clouds too. Of course, I also love ADTOE....

Dominici's pretty good. He's no LaBrie, but overall his performance was quite good, in my opinion.

Awake is awesome. Though not at first. It takes a while to open up.

I see what you're saying about Jordan's solos, but I still like 'em.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on May 07, 2013, 04:31:11 PM
Lol John definitely cannot sing (Wither JP vocal demo had AUTOTUNING.  :facepalm:)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grizz on May 07, 2013, 04:36:35 PM
Well, isn't the main idea of a vocal demo to be a guideline to tell James what to do? (Except for Best of Times, obviously, where the vocal demo served a second important purpose.) How can James know what note to sing (well, besides sheet music and common sense) if John is singing it wrong?
But then there's the question of why RRR decided to release the vocal demo. Wither wasn't even single worthy to begin with.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on May 07, 2013, 04:42:30 PM
Lol John definitely cannot sing (Wither JP vocal demo had AUTOTUNING.  :facepalm:)

Well, he's not a lead singer, that's for sure. He doesn't have a particularly strong voice, or exceptional range.

However, saying he can't sing is just not true. He's sang (sung?) backup for a long time, and he's done a good job with it. The Wither demo was just made to give James a feel for how the song was supposed to be sung. If they had planned on releasing it with JP singing, I think he would made more of an effort to hit all the notes right. But for what it was, there was nothing wrong it.

Also, LOTS of singers use autotune. James uses it sometimes. Occasionally it's just easier to repair that one little mistake with autotune than it is to sing the whole thing again.

Well, that's my opinion. Free, and most likely worth what it costs.   ;)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on May 07, 2013, 04:43:12 PM
Well, isn't the main idea of a vocal demo to be a guideline to tell James what to do? (Except for Best of Times, obviously, where the vocal demo served a second important purpose.) How can James know what note to sing (well, besides sheet music and common sense) if John is singing it wrong?
But then there's the question of why RRR decided to release the vocal demo. Wither wasn't even single worthy to begin with.

Man, you ninja'd me. I type too slow.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on May 07, 2013, 06:59:07 PM
Dominici completely ruins When Dream and Day Unite. It's a damn shame too, because the music that I've been able to stomach is quite awesome.

Personally, I don't think it's Dominici himself that ruins it, it's just that most of the vocal melodies on WDADU aren't that good. It's not so much a problem with his ability as a singer, as it is with the actual compositions. I know these days, JP, and whoever writes the music, they come up with the vocal melodies too, which is why we have things like "JP Vocal Demo", but WDADU really seemed like Charlie just kind of winged the vocal melodies, and most of the time, they just didn't fit that well. And that's why even James can't really salvage a lot of those songs, like The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grizz on May 07, 2013, 07:59:01 PM
I just find it difficult to listen past his voice. It's a problem I have with Geddy Lee too, but not as much.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on May 08, 2013, 06:32:07 AM
I just find it difficult to listen past his voice. It's a problem I have with Geddy Lee too, but not as much.

Well, I'm sure if the vocal melodies were better written, and more suitable for his range, he'd sound much better.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: kirksnosehair on May 08, 2013, 12:24:01 PM
Lol John definitely cannot sing (Wither JP vocal demo had AUTOTUNING.  :facepalm: )

Well, he's not a lead singer, that's for sure. He doesn't have a particularly strong voice, or exceptional range.

However, saying he can't sing is just not true. He's sang (sung?) backup for a long time, and he's done a good job with it. The Wither demo was just made to give James a feel for how the song was supposed to be sung. If they had planned on releasing it with JP singing, I think he would made more of an effort to hit all the notes right. But for what it was, there was nothing wrong it.

Also, LOTS of singers use autotune. James uses it sometimes. Occasionally it's just easier to repair that one little mistake with autotune than it is to sing the whole thing again.

Well, that's my opinion. Free, and most likely worth what it costs.   ;)


The truth is, pitch correction software is used on practically every modern album to fix imperfections in both lead and backing vocals.   Recording budgets are not what the used to be and you are exactly right that repairing -as opposed to redoing- an otherwise acceptable performance is now pretty much standard operating procedure in most studios. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on May 08, 2013, 12:27:14 PM
The truth is, pitch correction software is used on practically every modern album to fix imperfections in both lead and backing vocals.   Recording budgets are not what the used to be and you are exactly right that repairing -as opposed to redoing- an otherwise acceptable performance is now pretty much standard operating procedure in most studios.

Unfortunately.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on May 08, 2013, 02:22:36 PM
When I say autotune I mean really obvious autotune. As obvious as Friday, for instance (yep, I said it.)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grizz on May 08, 2013, 02:33:17 PM
Again, the vocal demos are not meant for public ears. The Wither single should never have existed anyway.
John without autotune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 08, 2013, 02:36:21 PM
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on May 08, 2013, 02:42:22 PM
Hey, that's not the way you react to a top 10 all time DT moment!  :borlag:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on May 08, 2013, 02:46:25 PM
Well, I admit, that's pretty bad. He was obviously aware of that, though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: perfey on May 08, 2013, 02:47:04 PM
 :rollin Love the laughs :P.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on May 08, 2013, 02:57:49 PM
Hey, that's not the way you react to a top 10 all time DT moment!  :borlag:

was that directed towards me?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on May 08, 2013, 03:01:15 PM
I love James at 2:20-something saying "and you said John couldn't sing".

1000 of my comments start with "I love James".
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on May 09, 2013, 02:25:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEhY420yUJ0)

 :rollin :rollin :rollin

:rollin Love the laughs :P .

Me too. :lol

I love James at 2:20-something saying "and you said John couldn't sing".

1000 of my comments start with "I love James".

James is the bee's fucking KNEES, people. :hearts:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: GasparXR on May 09, 2013, 10:46:10 AM
James is the bee's fucking KNEES, people. :hearts:

Knees do that? :hat
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: DebraKadabra on May 10, 2013, 02:02:14 AM
Sure, why not? :lol :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Great King Rat on August 05, 2013, 12:33:39 PM
Found this thread and wanted to add a few things (maybe they've been mentioned already):

- based on what I've heard James is mostly a very mediocre live vocalist and their official live albums sound way to polished. Related to this:
- their Metallica tribute where they played the MoP album is one of the worst musical monstrosities evah! After about two songs in they should have thought "nope, we're not gonna continue with this"
- Goodnight kiss is one of their best songs evah! Gives me shivers everytime.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on August 05, 2013, 01:25:33 PM
The Enemy Inside is probably their best heavy song. (over The Glass Prison.)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Joshin U on August 05, 2013, 01:30:27 PM
I do not like the chorus for LITS.

Or Doug Pinnick's backing vocals.



At all.



Like, not even a little bit.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 05, 2013, 01:40:24 PM
The Enemy Inside is probably their best heavy song. (over The Glass Prison.)

Ehm not really ;)
I love it, but rating it above Endless Sacrifice, ITNOG, BITS, Panic Attack, This Dying Soul, Honor Thy Father, The Glass Prison, The Mirror and even TDEN feels kind of strange to me. But that's what this thread is for :tup



I do not like the chorus for LITS.

Or Doug Pinnick's backing vocals.



At all.



Like, not even a little bit.

I agree with this. The weakest part of the song for sure.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aXygnus on August 05, 2013, 01:40:53 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is in the top 10 of songs, maybe even top 5 for me.

The instrumental is their best besides maybe Bridges in the Sky (it just flows so smoothly for me) and the outro is quite possibly their best besides Losing Time/Grand Finale, The Best of Times and Finally Free.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 05, 2013, 01:44:16 PM
Sign me up for the TMOLS lovers club as well :heart
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on August 05, 2013, 01:49:50 PM
I'll have to agree with my countryman there as well. TMOLS is awesome, my favourite track from SC.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 05, 2013, 01:52:11 PM
:-*
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on August 05, 2013, 01:57:43 PM
Back atcha buddy. :-*
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 05, 2013, 03:14:52 PM
Here's some of mine, though generally I don't have too many left-field opinions about DT.

- Another Day is one of DT's best songs.
- So is ITNOG. (contrast!)
- The only song I really care for at all on SC is TDEN
- The rapping in HTF is really edgy in a good way
- I'm not to impressed by the longer songs on ADTOE, the shorter songs/ballads are great though
- KM was their best lyricist by a few nautical miles.
- I miss the rotating setlists...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 05, 2013, 03:17:10 PM
I agree about Another Day and Kevin Moore.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grizz on August 05, 2013, 03:53:16 PM
Here's some of mine, though generally I don't have too many left-field opinions about DT.

- Another Day is one of DT's best songs.
- So is ITNOG. (contrast!)
- The rapping in HTF is really edgy in a good way
- I miss the rotating setlists...
I agree with these, and the others I haven't really looked into, as I rarely listen to those albums and haven't really looked into the lyrics.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dublagent66 on August 05, 2013, 04:01:48 PM
The Ministry of Lost Souls is in the top 10 of songs, maybe even top 5 for me.

The instrumental is their best besides maybe Bridges in the Sky (it just flows so smoothly for me) and the outro is quite possibly their best besides Losing Time/Grand Finale, The Best of Times and Finally Free.

Sign me up for the TMOLS lovers club as well :heart

I'll have to agree with my countryman there as well. TMOLS is awesome, my favourite track from SC.

 :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: fibreoptix on August 07, 2013, 08:23:37 AM
I rate Falling Into Infinity higher than Images and Words.

That's right.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on August 07, 2013, 08:25:44 AM
I rate Falling Into Infinity higher than Images and Words.

That's right.

:hifive:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Joshin U on August 07, 2013, 08:37:32 AM
I also think the chorus for Blind Faith is one of the poorest that DT has done.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on August 07, 2013, 09:01:31 AM
I also think the chorus for Blind Faith is one of the poorest that DT has done.
I think it's one of their best, the studio version, that is. The buildup is great, they nailed James' tone perfectly and Mike's answers work really well.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: serrano on August 07, 2013, 09:06:30 AM
I rate SC over TOT.    :omg: Now i run for cover.


Add me to the TMOLS lovers club.

Hate Blind Faith, most of The Glass Prison, Disappear. Basically apart from Misunderstood and parts of TGP and TGD i hate SDOIT first disc.  :omg: I rate SC over SDOIT disc 1, now i'm doomed here.

Love ACOS but i find it overrated and the production sucks (snare = :puke:)




Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Scorpion on August 07, 2013, 09:08:01 AM
Well... you like TMOLS, that's a plus.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Joshin U on August 07, 2013, 09:25:34 AM
I also think the chorus for Blind Faith is one of the poorest that DT has done.
I think it's one of their best, the studio version, that is. The buildup is great, they nailed James' tone perfectly and Mike's answers work really well.

See, my main problem is that its buildup IS so fantastic, and then the chorus has no payoff.  It's just so... flat.  And I also hate Mike's answers because they deflate the chorus so completely.  I wish I could enjoy it, because the rest of the song is incredible.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LTE3 on August 07, 2013, 09:54:34 AM
I hope this thread won't turn into Score's vocals were dubbed or not debate. It's really getting annoying. James himself confirmed that, expect some small touches vocals were not dubbed on Score. Any further debate about this matter is just baseless and false.

I saw the show live with my naked steaming ears, and James was so fucking good that night.

As far a controversial opinions: DT is not DT without Mike Portnoy, love mangini's skills but MP was and still is the heart of the band, and I can only hope for a reunion down the road.
 The dt cover album from BCSL is better than their original tunes on that album. Run with it...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 07, 2013, 11:21:38 AM
The dt cover album from BCSL is better than their original tunes on that album. Run with it...

Agreed. And personally, I think that the covers on that CD are better than the originals.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mosh on August 07, 2013, 03:04:32 PM
No way. Nothing beats the original Stargazer. Those covers are good but don't even come close to the originals IMO.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LCArenas on August 07, 2013, 03:06:56 PM
Metropolis is one of my least favorite Images and Words songs. Not that I dislike it, it's great, but the majority of the other tracks are stronger.


HERETIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIC
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 08, 2013, 02:45:37 AM
No way. Nothing beats the original Stargazer. Those covers are good but don't even come close to the originals IMO.

Hence why the opinion would be controversial.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Estiui on August 08, 2013, 03:03:31 AM
Metropolis is one of my least favorite Images and Words songs. Not that I dislike it, it's great, but the majority of the other tracks are stronger.


HERETIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIC

Agreed. At least LTL, TTT, S and UAGM are better.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 08, 2013, 04:30:22 AM
Well... you like TMOLS, that's a plus.

Yes!


I rate SC over SDOIT disc 1, now i'm doomed here.

I rate SC over SDOIT in general. :tup

SDOIT is easily in my bottom 3 together with BC&SL and WDADU.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JLa on August 08, 2013, 05:33:15 AM
- Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is their best album. Followed by Awake and SFAM.
- DT's "Roadrunner albums" are nowhere near their earlier ones.
- Portnoy had a fair point when he asked for a hiatus/break to recharge batteries and maybe get the creativity flowing again. I wish the rest of the guys had agreed to that.
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PixelDream on August 08, 2013, 05:38:17 AM
- Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is their best album. Followed by Awake and SFAM.
- DT's "Roadrunner albums" are nowhere near their earlier ones.
- Portnoy had a fair point when he asked for a hiatus/break to recharge batteries and maybe get the creativity flowing again. I wish the rest of the guys had agreed to that.
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.

Nice, short summary of your feelings toward this. I agree on all accounts, but I think I&W qualifies as a 'best album' as well.

EDIT: I misread, I don't quite agree on the last part. Actually, maybe that would've been great, we don't know. All I know is that I love Jordan Rudess's work on DT's pre Roadrunner albums, as well as Derek's work on ACOS and FII.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Bolsters on August 08, 2013, 05:42:16 AM
- Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is their best album. Followed by Awake and SFAM.
- DT's "Roadrunner albums" are nowhere near their earlier ones.
- Portnoy had a fair point when he asked for a hiatus/break to recharge batteries and maybe get the creativity flowing again. I wish the rest of the guys had agreed to that.
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.
I don't think the first three are controversial at all, really. The last isn't really that bad either. These are probably some of the least controversial opinions posted in the topic really. :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 08, 2013, 05:43:59 AM
- Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is their best album. Followed by Awake and SFAM.
- DT's "Roadrunner albums" are nowhere near their earlier ones.
- Portnoy had a fair point when he asked for a hiatus/break to recharge batteries and maybe get the creativity flowing again. I wish the rest of the guys had agreed to that.
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.

I disagree with all of this
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Full Speed on August 08, 2013, 05:48:07 AM
I love POW and You Not Me (which I prefer to You Or Me).

I do not like any of the AA suite besides TROAE.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: serrano on August 08, 2013, 05:53:42 AM
I disagree with all of this
I agree to disagree
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: adastra on August 08, 2013, 05:58:29 AM
Great topic!  So here goes;

- I Walk Beside You  is the best song from Dream Theater.

- I've never liked JR's performance in Dream Theater . He is amazing player and seems to be great guy.  But still I think that Dream Theater has become his playground in testing all those wacky sounds from his keyboard.   

- Falling Into Infinity is by FAR  their best albums.  Great songwriting!

Well, that was fun!  :angel:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: serrano on August 08, 2013, 06:05:29 AM
I love POW and You Not Me (which I prefer to You Or Me).

I do not like any of the AA suite besides TROAE.

Most of the AA suite are skippers for me. TGP skip after firts verse, TDS skip after JP's lead, TROAE is ok, Repetance skip before it starts, TSF, this one should have been in SDOIT disc 1 as beginning and end of the suite (now, this is really controversial!)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on August 08, 2013, 06:05:36 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PixelDream on August 08, 2013, 06:13:02 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

It comes so naturally to him, and sometimes forgets about the listener. Though one of my favorite JR moments is how he ends In The Name of God. I love that little piano outro.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JLa on August 08, 2013, 06:16:18 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.
Agreed. I listened to this album he released "Notes on a Dream", he does piano versions of DT songs. I think he almost ruined them with all those notes ...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: adastra on August 08, 2013, 06:17:52 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

Less is More .
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 06:19:43 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

Less is More .

Rudess is More. More betterer.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MoraWintersoul on August 08, 2013, 06:48:28 AM
Less is More .
Less is less, more is more; both less and more can be bad or good.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on August 08, 2013, 06:58:57 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

You never saw him playing with artistic restraint? Oh, that's a shame, because you are missing a lot. There you go, it's not two days old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtWQ0ps19YQ
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: adastra on August 08, 2013, 07:19:50 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

You never saw him playing with artistic restraint? Oh, that's a shame, because you are missing a lot. There you go, it's not two days old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtWQ0ps19YQ

That was great !!!  ;D
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: maximumrocker on August 08, 2013, 08:01:46 AM
I could never get into all of Awake (Though some great tracks off it)
I have never listened to all of FII in one sitting
I love the all the long epics
I like wankery (not in every song though)
Great Debate sucks
BC&SL had too many epics. Needed a few more shorter songs for breathing room
I love cheesy lyrics, they go well with my nachos
ADTOE was a great album. Better that 8v, SC, BC&SL, maybe ToT
Rudess needs more piano solos (not synth solos)

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 08, 2013, 08:07:53 AM
I I have never listened to all of FII in one sitting

Do it. You're really missing out.


BC&SL had too many epics. Needed a few more shorter songs for breathing room

ADTOE was a great album. Better that 8v, SC, BC&SL, maybe ToT

These are pretty much common opinions (although I disagree with ADTOE being better than 8VM and TOT, but it's still a Top 5 DT album for me).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Podaar on August 08, 2013, 08:09:54 AM
I could never get into all of Awake (Though some great tracks off it)
I have never listened to all of FII in one sitting
I love the all the long epics
I like wankery (not in every song though)
I don't like Great Debate, like, at all.
BC&SL had too many epics. Needed a few more shorter songs for breathing room
I love cheesy lyrics, they go well with my nachos
ADTOE was a great album. Better that 8v, SC, BC&SL, maybe ToT
Rudess needs more piano solos (not synth solos)

FTFY.

Just trying to be helpful. Bashing is heavily frowned on around here. You may want to forget that certain words like 'sucks' even exist.  :)

Oh and The Great Debate is an awesome song just for MP's drum choices and playing alone even if you don't like anything else about it. Personally, I love all of it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: serrano on August 08, 2013, 08:12:54 AM
I could never get into all of Awake (Though some great tracks off it)
I have never listened to all of FII in one sitting
I love the all the long epics
I like wankery (not in every song though)
Great Debate sucks
BC&SL had too many epics. Needed a few more shorter songs for breathing room
I love cheesy lyrics, they go well with my nachos
ADTOE was a great album. Better that 8v, SC, BC&SL, maybe ToT
Rudess needs more piano solos (not synth solos)

Nothing really shocking here.

When i listen to FII there are a couple of songs where my finger seems to think by itself and searches for the skip key.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: puppyonacid on August 08, 2013, 08:13:58 AM
The dt cover album from BCSL is better than their original tunes on that album. Run with it...

Agreed. And personally, I think that the covers on that CD are better than the originals.

Aside from the Queen tracks surely?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Podaar on August 08, 2013, 08:17:38 AM
The dt cover album from BCSL is better than their original tunes on that album. Run with it...

Agreed. And personally, I think that the covers on that CD are better than the originals.

Aside from the Queen tracks surely?

 ??? The Queen cover is the highlight of the covers CD. So I'm sure that's what he's saying. (see bold text)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: serrano on August 08, 2013, 08:19:56 AM
The queen covers are great, even Brian May was asked in an interview and was amazed.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: puppyonacid on August 08, 2013, 10:15:37 AM
OK to clarify:

The notion that the covers CD is better than the main BCaSL disc is one that I don't wholly disagree with.

The notion that the covers themselves are better than the original songs that are being covered.....again, I think there may be merit in that.

Brian May and Roger Taylor did indeed say how impressed they were with the covers. They are fantastic tributes and covers of Queen songs. However, I don't see that DTs version of said Queen songs can be better. My opinion of course, but they are 3 (in 1) songs that are Queen fan favorites and epitomise that early Queen sound. They original Queen songs are much heavier and bigger sounding.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: fllnsprrw on August 08, 2013, 10:40:17 AM
I am really hard pressed to find any opinion of mine that could be considered controversial. I like everything from DT. Maybe that's controversial. Or that I would love to see Mike Portnoy back in DT, I know that's not the majority here according to the poll.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on August 08, 2013, 11:06:57 AM
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.


To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

You never saw him playing with artistic restraint? Oh, that's a shame, because you are missing a lot. There you go, it's not two days old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtWQ0ps19YQ

That piece was wonderful, too bad it doesn't get put into DT's music more often.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 08, 2013, 11:19:36 AM
To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

Less is Moore .

TFTY
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on August 08, 2013, 11:24:06 AM
To further expand on this Jordan, (at least to me) is a little too good. I never see any restraint from him when playing, slow pieces will go into a flurry of notes. That is where I lose him most of the time.

Moore is Less.

TFTY

FTFY
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jonny108 on August 08, 2013, 04:38:27 PM
New Millennium is the best song on FII.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Boomr on August 08, 2013, 04:46:08 PM
Haven't been reading this thread, but I just posted in another thread that lotsa peoples prolly disagree with :D

I think LaBrie's two equally best moments on studio albums are Goodnight Kiss and Through Her Eyes.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on August 08, 2013, 04:49:29 PM
New Millennium is the best song on FII.


 :omg:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 08, 2013, 04:51:49 PM
wait.....








                     no...








         


                                                      No.











                                                                               NO!














             

                NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 08, 2013, 04:54:28 PM
New Millennium is the best song on FII.

 :rollin
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: FourthHorseman on August 08, 2013, 04:58:49 PM
New Millennium is the best song on FII.

While I enjoy ToT and LITS, I agree that its one of the best on the album  :metal
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on August 08, 2013, 04:59:54 PM
New Millennium is a fantastic song, and is better sonically and structurally than many DT songs. Not a lot of their songs are nearly as groovy as New Millennium, and few have as many wonderfully coherent musical ideas. I'd love to see more songs like it. But still not better than Trial of Tears.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: dragonmaster715 on August 08, 2013, 05:41:23 PM
ive got a phew things

SC is underrated, one of my favorite DT albums, SC>IAW
i dont like IAW nearly as much as most people do, the only songs on it i really like are pull me under and metropolis pt 2
pull me under is good but not nearly DT's best song
the ministry of lost souls is one of my fav DT songs, top 10

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on August 08, 2013, 05:42:29 PM
ive got a phew things

SC is underrated, one of my favorite DT albums, SC>IAW
i dont like IAW nearly as much as most people do, the only songs on it i really like are pull me under and metropolis pt 2
pull me under is good but not nearly DT's best song
the ministry of lost souls is one of my fav DT songs, top 10

 :huh:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Dark Castle on August 08, 2013, 05:44:37 PM
ive got a phew things

SC is underrated, one of my favorite DT albums, SC>IAW
i dont like IAW nearly as much as most people do, the only songs on it i really like are pull me under and metropolis pt 2
pull me under is good but not nearly DT's best song
the ministry of lost souls is one of my fav DT songs, top 10

 :huh:

It's obviously just a typo..
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 08, 2013, 05:45:03 PM
ive got a phew things

SC is underrated, one of my favorite DT albums, SC>IAW
i dont like IAW nearly as much as most people do, the only songs on it i really like are pull me under and metropolis pt 2
pull me under is good but not nearly DT's best song
the ministry of lost souls is one of my fav DT songs, top 10

 :huh:

I was gonna make some sort of "Myung yodel ending" joke, but I realized it's kind of played out. Alas.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 08, 2013, 05:45:14 PM
ive got a phew things

SC is underrated, one of my favorite DT albums, SC>IAW
i dont like IAW nearly as much as most people do, the only songs on it i really like are pull me under and metropolis pt 2
pull me under is good but not nearly DT's best song
the ministry of lost souls is one of my fav DT songs, top 10

 :huh:

It's a hidden bonus track. It's so hidden, that it took people 7 years to find it, on a different disc in a different package.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: maximumrocker on August 08, 2013, 06:12:11 PM
I could never get into all of Awake (Though some great tracks off it)
I have never listened to all of FII in one sitting
I love the all the long epics
I like wankery (not in every song though)
I don't like Great Debate, like, at all.
BC&SL had too many epics. Needed a few more shorter songs for breathing room
I love cheesy lyrics, they go well with my nachos
ADTOE was a great album. Better that 8v, SC, BC&SL, maybe ToT
Rudess needs more piano solos (not synth solos)

FTFY.

Just trying to be helpful. Bashing is heavily frowned on around here. You may want to forget that certain words like 'sucks' even exist.  :)

Oh and The Great Debate is an awesome song just for MP's drum choices and playing alone even if you don't like anything else about it. Personally, I love all of it.

My bad dude! Thanks for the heads up. Ill keep it in mind

Another two I'll add to my list. Though I enjoy from time to time - Learning to Live is awesome some days, and other days I just can't get into it...
I havn't listened to all of WDADU...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 08, 2013, 06:16:02 PM
Do it. WDADU is awesome.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: AngelBack on August 08, 2013, 06:23:03 PM
TMOLS is a top 15 song for me.......really.......no joke
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 08, 2013, 09:37:27 PM
Glad to know everyone else enjoys it. TMOLS is probably...bottom 3 for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 08, 2013, 09:43:03 PM
Glad to know everyone else enjoys it. TMOLS is probably...bottom 3 for me.

That's not very controversial.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 08, 2013, 09:50:14 PM
Glad to know everyone else enjoys it. TMOLS is probably...bottom 3 for me.

That's not very controversial.

I know, I was just responding to the number of posts praising the song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 425 on August 08, 2013, 09:56:02 PM
Count me among the TMOLS lovers. I've been getting the impression that there are more of us than it seems like and the people who don't like the song just talk about it more.

I'm not sure how many controversial opinions I have. I think there are a lot of songs I like that others don't, which is normal for me. When I fall in love with a band, I tend to like most of what they've done. It's not like I blind myself to anything negative, I just typically find myself liking most of the things the artist created.

I guess I'll list a few unpopular songs/sections of songs that I like more than most, and then I'll see if I come up with any negative opinions.


Wow, I actually came up with a lot there. Wasn't planning on that. Well, here you go DTF.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 08, 2013, 10:06:50 PM

  • Constant Motion - I really love this song. Vocally, musically, lyrically. Same with TDEN but that's become so commonly stated lately that I don't think it qualifies as controversial anymore. It's high time CM got the same level of love (maybe not quite as much but still).
  • A Nightmare to Remember - Mike's vocal passage fits just fine with the lyrics and I'm glad he did it.

Regarding all that, while I didn't mind his rap on A Nightmare to Remember, the backing screams he did on the other songs on BC&SL, such as on AROP, TCOT, etc, really were a detriment to those songs, and the songs would've been much better without that. Of course, a lot of people would agree with me, so that's not really controversial. BUT! Having said that, I honestly really like the vocal contributions he provided for Systematic Chaos. His back and forth rap on Constant Motion was awesome, his rap and Queen harmonies in Prophets of War were pretty awesome as well. I felt like it undermined JLB's part in the band a little bit, but sonically, I enjoyed it very much.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: rumborak on August 08, 2013, 10:16:36 PM
My controversial opinion: I think DT is slowly entering Rush territory, where the excitement for their new stuff kinda simmers at a low level, and most people show up at concerts to just hear the old stuff.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 08, 2013, 10:26:04 PM
Do it. WDADU is awesome.

This is the most controversial post so far! :lol
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Sycsa on August 08, 2013, 10:29:33 PM
My controversial opinion: I think DT is slowly entering Rush territory, where the excitement for their new stuff kinda simmers at a low level, and most people show up at concerts to just hear the old stuff.
That could be said for almost any older band to a certain extent, but I think DT is doing better in that department than most. Their popularity is still on the rise and they really don't have a single song which they absolutely have to play on every concert. So good luck going in there just for PMU. Also, they play the majority of their latest album on tour, not just 1-2 songs. Personally, I am way more excited to hear the ADTOE songs on Luna Park than anything else.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 08, 2013, 10:32:35 PM
My controversial opinion: I think DT is slowly entering Rush territory, where the excitement for their new stuff kinda simmers at a low level, and most people show up at concerts to just hear the old stuff.
That could be said for almost any older band to a certain extent, but I think DT is doing better in that department than most. Their popularity is still on the rise and they really don't have a single song which they absolutely have to play on every concert. So good luck going in there just for PMU. Also, they play the majority of their latest album on tour, not just 1-2 songs. Personally, I am way more excited to hear the ADTOE songs on Luna Park than anything else.

I'm pretty sure that once they started touring after ADTOE came out, everyone was psyched to hear at least a couple of the songs they played from ADTOE. They had created such a perfect balance of their old and new stuff that tour. Especially Setlist C.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Tom Bombadil on August 08, 2013, 10:59:35 PM
SDOIT is one of my least favorite songs by DT. It's just never done anything for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 09, 2013, 01:12:08 AM
i dont like IAW nearly as much as most people do

Me neither. Metropolis and UAGM are fantastic, LTL and WFS are great, but the entire first half of the album does absolutely nothing to me. Another Day is one of the worst DT songs ever.



TMOLS is a top 15 song for me.......really.......no joke

:tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 09, 2013, 08:29:14 AM
Do it. WDADU is awesome.

This is the most controversial post so far! :lol
:tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on August 09, 2013, 08:34:33 AM
I don't think Take the Time or Another Day are very good songs. Another Day is very poppy and generic, and with Take the Time I hate the structure and how inane it feels to listen to, with no unifying themes or strong recurring melodies; it feels very stitched together to me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 09, 2013, 08:35:56 AM
 :|
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 09, 2013, 09:18:28 AM
I don't think Take the Time or Another Day are very good songs. Another Day is very poppy and generic, and with Take the Time I hate the structure and how inane it feels to listen to, with no unifying themes or strong recurring melodies; it feels very stitched together to me.

Nothing wrong with a song being "poppy", but I agree, Another Day is my least favourite from I&W and TTT is in the bottom half as well (either second or third least favourite).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: mikeyd23 on August 09, 2013, 09:31:02 AM
I don't think Take the Time or Another Day are very good songs. Another Day is very poppy and generic, and with Take the Time I hate the structure and how inane it feels to listen to, with no unifying themes or strong recurring melodies; it feels very stitched together to me.

I would tend to agree about Another Day, it never really clicked for me, but I do like TtT!

That could be said for almost any older band to a certain extent, but I think DT is doing better in that department than most. Their popularity is still on the rise and they really don't have a single song which they absolutely have to play on every concert. So good luck going in there just for PMU. Also, they play the majority of their latest album on tour, not just 1-2 songs. Personally, I am way more excited to hear the ADTOE songs on Luna Park than anything else.

Yes this completely... DT has managed to avoid the normal trap bands who have been around a long time fall into.  When they tour, they tend to focus on new material, and usually play different songs from their back catalog from what they played the previous few album tours. 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on August 09, 2013, 09:46:47 AM
WDADU is awesome.
QFT :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: krieger on August 09, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
Portnoy just has stayed in DT for this long because he wanted to finish the Twelve-step Suite. As soon as it was done, he did a tour and then the band should call it's day (this part did not work out). Nothing else to say and all that.

Second part of the controversial opinion: five years later he would regroup the band to do a worldwide tour to play just the Twelve-step Suite (and 2 or 3 other songs), and release a live album. Or maybe a "best of" - with just the songs from the suite.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: dragonmaster715 on August 10, 2013, 09:13:07 AM
ive got a phew things

SC is underrated, one of my favorite DT albums, SC>IAW
i dont like IAW nearly as much as most people do, the only songs on it i really like are pull me under and metropolis pt 2
pull me under is good but not nearly DT's best song
the ministry of lost souls is one of my fav DT songs, top 10

 :huh:

It's obviously just a typo..

Correct, just a typo lol, i meant metropolis pt 1
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 10, 2013, 09:14:52 AM
Portnoy just has stayed in DT for this long because he wanted to finish the Twelve-step Suite. As soon as it was done, he did a tour and then the band should call it's day (this part did not work out). Nothing else to say and all that.

Second part of the controversial opinion: five years later he would regroup the band to do a worldwide tour to play just the Twelve-step Suite (and 2 or 3 other songs), and release a live album. Or maybe a "best of" - with just the songs from the suite.

I don't agree with any of this.

But you have a Chroma Key avatar. What to do, what to do.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 10, 2013, 09:17:51 AM
Portnoy just has stayed in DT for this long because he wanted to finish the Twelve-step Suite. As soon as it was done, he did a tour and then the band should call it's day (this part did not work out). Nothing else to say and all that.

Second part of the controversial opinion: five years later he would regroup the band to do a worldwide tour to play just the Twelve-step Suite (and 2 or 3 other songs), and release a live album. Or maybe a "best of" - with just the songs from the suite.

Technically, it's more of a theory than an opinion.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: krieger on August 10, 2013, 10:32:03 AM
I agree the second part is quite stupid...  ;D (but possible)

But I believe in the first part!  :corn
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wasteland on August 10, 2013, 10:34:34 AM
I agree the second part is quite stupid...  ;D (but possible)

But I believe in the first part!  :corn

I disagree with the first theory and I think the second is utter madness, but the reason behind this post of mine is complimenting you on your very good avatar  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: krieger on August 10, 2013, 10:44:40 AM
Saved by Moore! Again!  :hefdaddy

But aren't the most incrongruous opinions the funniest?  :biggrin:

EDIT:

So let me give you some controversial OPINION, and not some paranoic theory:

Charlie Dominici first album - 03 trilogy part one - is amazing, it is better than WDADU, SC, 8VM, 6DoIT, etc.

 :hat
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on August 10, 2013, 10:57:57 AM
Saved by Moore! Again!  :hefdaddy
Well, he offered everyone Salvation on Graveyard Mountain Home :D

(your avatar rules! :tup)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 10, 2013, 10:59:48 AM
So let me give you some controversial OPINION, and not some paranoic theory:

Charlie Dominici first album - 03 trilogy part one - is amazing, it is better than WDADU, SC, 8VM, 6DoIT, etc.

Hmm, I've only heard Part 3, but it's really good. Not sure that I'd rank it over many DT albums though.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: krieger on August 10, 2013, 11:19:59 AM
Hmm, I've only heard Part 3, but it's really good. Not sure that I'd rank it over many DT albums though.

It is good, isn't it? I was really impressed! It seems everyone who spent some time at DTLand has some magic in him.

The first album is just vocal + acoustic guitar, but it has some very good lyrics (better than part 2 or 3), and he is quite good playing. The album reminds me something of Springsteen's Nebraska.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: FourthHorseman on August 10, 2013, 04:29:05 PM
Panic Attack and This Dying Soul are top tier DT metal songs.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 10, 2013, 04:29:59 PM
I do not disagree with that.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Rattlehead on August 10, 2013, 04:59:04 PM
I agree with TDS, but not PA at all. I thought it was more controversial to dislike PA than it is to like it personally.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 10, 2013, 04:59:57 PM
A lot of people seem to dislike Panic Attack. :dunno:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Polis on August 10, 2013, 05:13:23 PM
I find SFAM very difficult to listen to now. I used to be obsessed with it, like most of you guys.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Bolsters on August 10, 2013, 10:11:46 PM
Panic Attack and This Dying Soul are top tier DT metal songs.
Yeah, they're both awesome. :2metal:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wolven74 on August 10, 2013, 10:24:23 PM
The more I hear it, the more I realize that TEI has absolutely nothing wrong with it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: FourthHorseman on August 10, 2013, 10:36:28 PM
I find SFAM very difficult to listen to now. I used to be obsessed with it, like most of you guys.

The lyrics almost ruin it for me, save Home and The Spirit Carries On.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Yoshi Yogurt on August 10, 2013, 10:45:58 PM
I&W is junk, along with Awake
Systematic Chaos is their best album, Forsaken the best song
Erotomania is their worst instrumental, SOC being the best
New Millenium and You Not Me are the best from FII
TDEN lyrics rocks
Repentance is the best song from the 12 step suite
SFAM doesnt catch my attention
Octavarium is better than ACOS

Dear God... :(
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 11, 2013, 12:57:14 AM
I agree with the Erotomania comment. And the Octavarium comment.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
Yes. Octavarium is so superior to A Change Of Seasons it's not funny.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on August 11, 2013, 01:50:49 AM
A lot of people seem to dislike Panic Attack. :dunno:

I like it.  Never Enough is worse. I'm surprised LaBrie didn't gasp between every line to really seal the deal.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 11, 2013, 04:33:51 AM
Never Enough is great, the instrumental section is plain awesome. And I like the lyrics.

After two years of SFAM obsession, Finally Free might be my new favourite from that album, superseding Home (not sure if that's controversial at all).
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Cable on August 11, 2013, 06:53:27 AM

Erotomania is their worst instrumental, SOC being the best
New Millennium and You Not Me are the best from FII



I'll take these two things. I never got what is so great about Erotomania. I thought I heard SOC repeats too much; Erotomania does that to me; the chromatic riff does not a whole lot for me.

NM was the song that really got me into DT. Thus, it is prob my fav from FII.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaq on August 11, 2013, 10:08:02 AM
The Enemy Inside's mix and master is perfectly fine.

 :P
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on August 11, 2013, 10:52:29 AM
Never Enough is great, the instrumental section is plain awesome. And I like the lyrics.

 :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on August 11, 2013, 10:54:43 AM
Never Enough is great, the instrumental section is plain awesome. And I like the lyrics.

 :tup

Yes! Thank you!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 11, 2013, 11:38:01 AM
:hifive:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: XB0BX on August 11, 2013, 07:42:00 PM
I have a lot of them:

-WDADU is full of amazing songs that are almost unlistenable due to the production
-SC is an amazing album, Constant Motion and Prophets of War are both amazing songs
-BC&SL is an amazing album as well, with no bad songs, and the 2 epics are both in contention for best DT songs
-Surrounded is a terrible song with no redeeming qualities, one of my least favorite DT songs
-Probably not controversial, but ADTOE is a perfect album, every song is legendary, and it MAY eventually pass I&W as my #1 DT album
-TEI is a VERY average song, and is infinitely inferior to OTBOA, which may be DT's best single ever
-Awake is an average album with a lot of songs I don't like, and not a single song I would consider a DT classic

I don't fit in here.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 11, 2013, 07:43:55 PM
I have a lot of them:

-WDADU is full of amazing songs that are almost unlistenable due to the production
-SC is an amazing album, Constant Motion and Prophets of War are both amazing songs
-BC&SL is an amazing album as well, with no bad songs, and the 2 epics are both in contention for best DT songs
-Surrounded is a terrible song with no redeeming qualities, one of my least favorite DT songs
-Probably not controversial, but ADTOE is a perfect album, every song is legendary, and it MAY eventually pass I&W as my #1 DT album
-TEI is a VERY average song, and is infinitely inferior to OTBOA, which may be DT's best single ever
-Awake is an average album with a lot of songs I don't like, and not a single song I would consider a DT classic

I don't fit in here.

These are the ones I violently disagree with.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grizz on August 11, 2013, 07:45:53 PM
-WDADU is full of amazing songs that are almost unlistenable due to the production
-SC is an amazing album, Constant Motion and Prophets of War are both amazing songs
-BC&SL is an amazing album as well, with no bad songs, and the 2 epics are both in contention for best DT songs
-Surrounded is a terrible song with no redeeming qualities, one of my least favorite DT songs
-Probably not controversial, but ADTOE is a perfect album, every song is legendary, and it MAY eventually pass I&W as my #1 DT album
-TEI is a VERY average song, and is infinitely inferior to OTBOA, which may be DT's best single ever
-Awake is an average album with a lot of songs I don't like, and not a single song I would consider a DT classic

I don't fit in here.
Maybe Half Yes No No Yes Half Nobody does
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zook on August 11, 2013, 08:23:23 PM
-Surrounded is a terrible song with no redeeming qualities, one of my least favorite DT songs

 :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on August 11, 2013, 08:24:08 PM
^ This is the correct response.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: wolven74 on August 11, 2013, 09:06:00 PM
-Surrounded is a terrible song with no redeeming qualities, one of my least favorite DT songs

 :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored
:clap:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LTE3 on August 11, 2013, 10:55:50 PM
No way. Nothing beats the original Stargazer. Those covers are good but don't even come close to the originals IMO.

I was referring to the Originals on BC&SL. The cover album is better.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LTE3 on August 11, 2013, 10:58:45 PM
- Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is their best album. Followed by Awake and SFAM.
- DT's "Roadrunner albums" are nowhere near their earlier ones.
- Portnoy had a fair point when he asked for a hiatus/break to recharge batteries and maybe get the creativity flowing again. I wish the rest of the guys had agreed to that.
- Jordan is an amazing player and seems like a great guy, but I'm not a fan of his playing style. Kevin obviously didn't want to be part of the band anymore, but I wish they had kept Derek.
Some good points, and I agree at times Derek's tone choices I favor of Jordan's. Although Jordan is a much better musician over all.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LTE3 on August 11, 2013, 11:21:09 PM
Now for the band look, it is past time for JP to cut his hair and face the fact he is going bald, James should stop trimming his eyebrows so thin. Look back at the Marque documentary and see how they used to look. John should go back the Ibanez, or at least his old sound. Jordan should use the hammond B-3 organ sound way more than he does, and stop with the pop pop pop doodle pop he seems to love. Mike Mangini need to stop ironing his hair straight it looks awful.
We need to hear some songs that MP had more of a hand in on this tour whether it was lyric writing or backup singing. JP enough with the weights already or change your diet so you get some definition of your muscle tone. You are just starting to look weird and did I mention you hair needs help.
Also will you ever an acoustic guitar in concert like Alex in Rush does. It would be a nice change.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: adastra on August 11, 2013, 11:47:04 PM
Now for the band look, it is past time for JP to cut his hair and face the fact he is going bald, James should stop trimming his eyebrows so thin. Look back at the Marque documentary and see how they used to look. John should go back the Ibanez, or at least his old sound. Jordan should use the hammond B-3 organ sound way more than he does, and stop with the pop pop pop doodle pop he seems to love. Mike Mangini need to stop ironing his hair straight it looks awful.
We need to hear some songs that MP had more of a hand in on this tour whether it was lyric writing or backup singing. JP enough with the weights already or change your diet so you get some definition of your muscle tone. You are just starting to look weird and did I mention you hair needs help.
Also will you ever an acoustic guitar in concert like Alex in Rush does. It would be a nice change.

Dude o.o stop messing with Petrucci's hair.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jayvee3 on August 12, 2013, 01:20:12 AM
-1. That Images and Words is sounding very dated, and many rave about it because of popular opinion, but not because they listen to it that much anymore ;

and

-2. That John Myung isn't actually a Ninja, but in fact a combination of Chuck Norris' skills, Kevin Sorbo's swordplay, Hasselhoffs charm, and Steven Segals hair, all wrapped into one - making him an uber-human...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 12, 2013, 01:24:10 AM
-1. That Images and Words is sounding very dated, and many rave about it because of popular opinion, but not because they listen to it that much anymore ;

Well, there are certain elements about it that sound very 90s, sure, but that doesn't mean it's not genuinely enjoyable in spite, or even because of them. I listen to it on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jayvee3 on August 12, 2013, 01:31:51 AM
-1. That Images and Words is sounding very dated, and many rave about it because of popular opinion, but not because they listen to it that much anymore ;

Well, there are certain elements about it that sound very 90s, sure, but that doesn't mean it's not genuinely enjoyable in spite, or even because of them. I listen to it on a regular basis.

Hence a 'controversial opinion' :yarr Awesome bud, glad you still enjoy it  :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 12, 2013, 04:07:34 AM
Mike Mangini need to stop ironing his hair straight it looks awful.

This.



Also will you ever an acoustic guitar in concert like Alex in Rush does. It would be a nice change.

He did last tour.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jsem on August 12, 2013, 04:11:15 AM
-1. That Images and Words is sounding very dated, and many rave about it because of popular opinion, but not because they listen to it that much anymore ;
It's probably the DT album that gets most frequently played by me. But I barely listen to DT anymore so whatever.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: mikemangioy on August 12, 2013, 04:55:57 AM
I like Octavarium, TOT and 6DOIT more than I&W. I don't enjoy listening to ACOS, and I think it's the 20 min song I like the least.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on August 12, 2013, 05:13:03 AM
-WDADU is full of amazing songs that are almost unlistenable due to the production

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Grizz on August 12, 2013, 06:15:37 AM
What are you trying to deny that WDADU is the sonic equivalent of a turd? Good luck.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Ruba on August 12, 2013, 06:18:04 AM
What are you trying to deny that WDADU is the sonic equivalent of a turd? Good luck.

I admit that the production sucks, but it doesn't make the songs unlistenable. It's not THAT bad.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on August 12, 2013, 06:27:38 AM
John should go back the Ibanez,

When he was with Ibanez, his playing was more interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRX_5o2YD8
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ? on August 12, 2013, 07:53:29 AM
What are you trying to deny that WDADU is the sonic equivalent of a turd? Good luck.
I admit that the production sucks, but it doesn't make the songs unlistenable. It's not THAT bad.
Agreed. Good music is good music even if the sound quality ain't great.
-Surrounded is a terrible song with no redeeming qualities, one of my least favorite DT songs
-Awake is an average album with a lot of songs I don't like, and not a single song I would consider a DT classic
:(
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jsem on August 12, 2013, 08:28:49 AM
John should go back the Ibanez,

When he was with Ibanez, his playing was more interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRX_5o2YD8
:hefdaddy to JPs playing in that vid.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on August 12, 2013, 12:49:41 PM
JP's hair looks best when it's short. There, I said it.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: mikeyd23 on August 12, 2013, 01:00:52 PM
JP's hair looks best when it's short. There, I said it.

Haha! I wouldn't say it looks best short, but I am a fan of this look for sure:
(http://gunshyassassin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/john.jpg)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: XB0BX on August 12, 2013, 06:53:06 PM
Can someone explain to me what exactly is so amazing about Awake? The only "classic" DT song on that album is SDV. Strangely enough, I also think Scarred is my favorite song from that album, and a lot of you people seem to hate it for some incomprehensible reason. Scarred is probably the catchiest "long" song on that album, and how can you not love the drumming near the end of the song? And that bass intro? I don't get DTF's opinions on this album as a whole. Really, guys?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: krieger on August 12, 2013, 07:30:10 PM
Awake is amazing!  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

But some days I wake up thinking I&W is the best...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on August 12, 2013, 07:33:25 PM
First three songs on Awake :  :tup

Everything after that :  :\


( my opinion ) .
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on August 12, 2013, 07:37:20 PM
These Walls is one of my least favorite DT songs. Don't dislike it, but it really never did much for me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: jayvee3 on August 12, 2013, 09:31:45 PM
Can someone explain to me what exactly is so amazing about Awake? The only "classic" DT song on that album is SDV. Strangely enough, I also think Scarred is my favorite song from that album, and a lot of you people seem to hate it for some incomprehensible reason. Scarred is probably the catchiest "long" song on that album, and how can you not love the drumming near the end of the song? And that bass intro? I don't get DTF's opinions on this album as a whole. Really, guys?

I enjoy these types of opinions, as they really show the diversity of the music, and the fans reactions. I really enjoy awake, but for me, I think Space Dye Vest is one of the worst things they have done, yet love a great deal of the other material like The Mirror, Lie (particularly that ending solo), Innocence Faded, Voices, and my very fave, and one you already touched on - Scarred. But as much as I dislike SDV, the theme in that song, and how it is used in different tones in some of the other songs, is quite brilliant, and adds some really good cohesion. Not to mention, it sets a more dark and heavy tone following I&W, so it was very fresh sounding at the time, and could possibly resonate more with the fans who like the heavier stuff. So you likely aren't alone in your opinion (in fact, I feel the same way about I&W), but thats at least a little insight to why I at least really enjoy that album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Buddyhunter1 on August 12, 2013, 09:34:53 PM
Awake might be my 2nd-least favorite DT album, to be honest. It's nowhere near bad, but the only songs on it I really like are 6:00 and The Mirror, the rest ranges from subpar to okay.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: adastra on August 12, 2013, 10:54:08 PM
John should go back the Ibanez,

When he was with Ibanez, his playing was more interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRX_5o2YD8
:hefdaddy to JPs playing in that vid.

Whoa.. This is just amazing. Why doesn't have play anymore with this kind of groove? :p
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucien on August 12, 2013, 10:55:19 PM
These Walls is one of my least favorite DT songs. Don't dislike it, but it really never did much for me.

And my controversial opinion is that it is one of my all-time favorites. For most, I guess it's just a mid-tier song.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: adastra on August 12, 2013, 11:00:20 PM
These Walls is one of my least favorite DT songs. Don't dislike it, but it really never did much for me.

And my controversial opinion is that it is one of my all-time favorites. For most, I guess it's just a mid-tier song.

One of my favourites too! 
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Mosh on August 12, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
No way. Nothing beats the original Stargazer. Those covers are good but don't even come close to the originals IMO.

I was referring to the Originals on BC&SL. The cover album is better.
My reply was to TGP.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: BlobVanDam on August 13, 2013, 12:36:01 AM
These Walls is one of my least favorite DT songs. Don't dislike it, but it really never did much for me.

And my controversial opinion is that it is one of my all-time favorites. For most, I guess it's just a mid-tier song.

Likewise, maybe even top 20 for me. It's possibly my favourite song on Octavarium, maybe more than the title track. Such beautiful melodies, a great lead line from JR, and a perfect use of changing time sigs that doesn't stick out. And it's one of their most tasteful songs. JP's solo has no shred at all. It's just a nice melody, that then repeats similarly over the final chorus.

Awake might be my 2nd-least favorite DT album, to be honest. It's nowhere near bad, but the only songs on it I really like are 6:00 and The Mirror, the rest ranges from subpar to okay.

It's one of my least favourite albums too, although I actually like the whole album up until Lie, and then dislike everything after that. We're in the controversial opinion thread, so I'm allowed to say that today!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 13, 2013, 12:37:19 AM
I was referring to the Originals on BC&SL. The cover album is better.
My reply was to TGP.

He mans me. Not The Glass Prison.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: 3xodus on August 13, 2013, 03:15:55 AM
James Labrie's last two albums were better than Dream Theaters last two albums. This new one is amazing.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 13, 2013, 04:36:38 AM
SDV is my #5 DT song. Voices however is easily my least favourite Awake tune.

And :tup for the These Walls love here!
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Estiui on August 13, 2013, 05:44:06 AM
I don't know if these are controversial, I just needed to write it after reading some posts here:

Surrounded is easily a top 10 DT song.

I've never been able to love Scarred, although intro and outro are one of their best.

I often think that Take The Time is the best song ever done, it's so fresh, powerful, catchy and varied.

The only enjoyable thing of The Glass Prison might be the intro.

Rudess's lead solos have not been good for years, too much wankery . His piano/synth playing is way better.

The Mirror's intro and outro are simply genius.

Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: aprilethereal on August 13, 2013, 05:49:20 AM
not even close; I love it; no; no; yes; great, but there are better parts in the song
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Kotowboy on August 13, 2013, 06:26:54 AM


It's one of my least favourite albums too, although I actually like the whole album up until Lie, and then dislike everything after that. We're in the controversial opinion thread, so I'm allowed to say that today!

I'm not overly keen on Awake. I love the opening three tracks but then it bores me.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: ReaperKK on August 13, 2013, 06:39:42 AM
Awake is amazing!  :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

But some days I wake up thinking I&W is the best...

I used to love Awake, when I first got into DT all I listened to was SDOIT and Awake. SDOIT is still good whereas I haven't been able to get through awake in one sitting in many, many years
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Zydar on August 13, 2013, 06:40:26 AM
Surrounded is easily a top 10 DT song.

Top 5 for me, even.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: thosava on August 13, 2013, 08:10:23 AM
Surrounded is easily a top 10 DT song.

Top 5 for me, even.

Same for me, number 5 on my list  ;)
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: JayOctavarium on August 13, 2013, 08:17:26 AM
It's going to be tough for DT12 to beat Impermanent Resonance based on what we've heard (single) and seen (interviews) so far.


Does that count?
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: serrano on August 13, 2013, 08:19:03 AM
 :yarr
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LTE3 on August 13, 2013, 08:37:15 AM
Quote
  Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT

I love Mangini as a person and as a drummer - but his solos bore me to death.


I don't like listening to anything where it's primarily about technique rather than just playing a groove with some tasty fills...


In music college - i'd hear guitarists go " Oh that scale worked great over that altered chord ".



It just leaves me cold - i'd rather hear one note being played with 100% feel than some alternate scale simply because the theory behind it is interesting.

so you miss MP.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: LTE3 on August 13, 2013, 09:03:52 AM
John should go back the Ibanez,

When he was with Ibanez, his playing was more interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRX_5o2YD8
:hefdaddy to JPs playing in that vid.

Whoa.. This is just amazing. Why doesn't have play anymore with this kind of groove? :p

Some more killer Ibanez playing with feeling.http://youtu.be/DynYO_-MxZk
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Jaffa on August 13, 2013, 10:31:03 AM
I often think that Take The Time is the best song always done, it's so fresh, powerful, catchy and varied.

 :tup
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Nekov on August 13, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
Surrounded is easily a top 10 DT song.

Top 5 for me, even.

#4 in my list  :tup

John should go back the Ibanez,

When he was with Ibanez, his playing was more interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRX_5o2YD8

Not sure is has to do with the guitar but yeah, back in the day JP blew my mind a lot more than he does nowadays. He's lost his groovynes in favor of a more technical/fast way of playing
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: PROGdrummer on August 13, 2013, 11:01:15 AM
A Dramatic Turn of Events was a pretty terrible album.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: lyfeternl on August 13, 2013, 11:46:44 AM
I usually forget that WDADU is DT's first album... Am I doing it right...? :neverusethis:
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: Lucidity on August 13, 2013, 12:20:29 PM
I try to forget that WDaDU is DT's first album...
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: TheGreatPretender on August 13, 2013, 12:22:15 PM
I usually forget that WDADU is DT's first album... Am I doing it right...? :neverusethis:

There are quite a few bands where I'd be much happier not counting their debut albums. Not that WDADU is that terrible, but it just kills the consistency of what I'd say an otherwise near perfect discography.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: The Boomr on August 13, 2013, 12:26:03 PM
Can someone explain to me what exactly is so amazing about Awake? The only "classic" DT song on that album is SDV. Strangely enough, I also think Scarred is my favorite song from that album, and a lot of you people seem to hate it for some incomprehensible reason. Scarred is probably the catchiest "long" song on that album, and how can you not love the drumming near the end of the song? And that bass intro? I don't get DTF's opinions on this album as a whole. Really, guys?

I really love Scarred as well, so agree there! :tup However, I pretty much love All of Awake, come to think of it. SDV might be my least favorite song on the album, but it's still a great track. The only reason it's least favorite is cause I generally listen to that album for heavier stuff, and then SDV happens and I'm like Oh. Haha.

Does no one else share my absolute eternal love for Caught in a Web?? It's easily my favorite from Awake.
Title: Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
Post by: lyfeternl o