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General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: eric42434224 on June 04, 2012, 08:29:21 AM
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I was thinking about this the other day, and thought it might be an interesting topic. We have discussed here in P/R about the necessity for a universe to have a beginning, and that the beginning was initiated by an omnipotent being outside of time and space...or what we will call god. We have also discussed the possibility of multiple universes. Why is it not completely possible that there are x number of universes, and x number of gods? Each universe with its own god. Not sure why there cant be more than one god, or what about our definition of a god that would not allow it. It seemed to me to be perfectly reasonable and plausible. Any thoughts?
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
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The way I see it, if God exists outside of the universe, and he created it, then he also created any alternate universes too.
If there were a God for each universe, that would mean he must be bound to that universe in some way, and isn't entirely ominpotent, which I don't think any religious person would accept as a possibility.
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
Seriously? How does that address if it is reasonable or plausible to have more than one god?
EDIT: I understand your beliefs, but quoting the bible isn't the kind of discussion I was thinking about.
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Watching Fringe too much? :hat
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Watching Fringe too much? :hat
I watch it, but that is not why I asked the question. Why cant there be a "race" of gods (for lack of a better word). Each god is outside of time and space, and has unlimited power and knowledge, etc, etc. And each has created one, or many, universes.
I was just wondering why there cant just be more than one?
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The thing you said sound like mythological. But the thing is God means "the only one". But that God we are talking about rules every universe, every dimension. That's why there is no "race" to be perfect. Race is occuring between people, God just watches us.
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It's an interesting thought that different universes may have different gods, though there's not really any evidence of another universe or of there being a god. I don't see the point of the thought experiment.
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The thing you said sound like mythological. But the thing is God means "the only one".
Just figured I'd point this out, "God" is a pagan Germanic word meaning "that which is invoked". I kinda figure though that you didn't mean it etymologically.
rumborak
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I don't even believe in a god in our universe, how am I supposed to believe in multiple ones outside of our universe?
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I name it how many see like, ecclesiastical actually. But the way you describe is the actual meaning, of course.
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It doesn't sound like the kind of thing that be discussed very much. We have no evidence one way or the other.
Might make neat sci-fi novel. Other than that, I've got nothing.
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I suppose there would be multiple iterations of God, but He would still basically be the same entity in each one. It's like how if there are parallel universes and other copies of us, that doesn't mean it's a separate individual from us but merely another iteration of our lives. It wouldn't contradict His one-ness because He is still one, but with parallel likenesses in each individual universe.
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The thing you said sound like mythological. But the thing is God means "the only one". But that God we are talking about rules every universe, every dimension. That's why there is no "race" to be perfect. Race is occuring between people, God just watches us.
You're working off the assumption that the Judeochristian conception of God is true. Plenty of people believe that there is more than one god.
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I wasnt looking for reasons for or against that were drawn directly from religious beliefs. More on the general side. Can there be more than one god? If a god is at the top of the food chain, a prime mover, eternal, outside of time and space, all powerful, etc....what about those attributes preclude there being more than one? They would have to be equal in every respect of course, but I am wondering why there cant be more than one? Just wondering why it has to be one god, when all the things we ascribe to a god dont seem to negate the possibility of multiple gods.
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I was under the assumption that uni implied that the universe encompasses all that exists
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I was under the assumption that uni implied that the universe encompasses all that exists
Indeed, however the multiverse theory came after the word had been in use. Which is why the term Multiverse is much better than Multiple Universes.
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The thing you said sound like mythological. But the thing is God means "the only one". But that God we are talking about rules every universe, every dimension. That's why there is no "race" to be perfect. Race is occuring between people, God just watches us.
You're working off the assumption that the Judeochristian conception of God is true. Plenty of people believe that there is more than one god.
Nope. I do not belong any side on this matter. Plus, I don't name God as its actual meaning. Just state that many believers on the world name God like that. For a muslim or jewish or christian, it doesn't matter how many universe or dimension there could be. All that are ruled by the only one, it's God.
Besides, it is somehow baseless debate. There is no tangible evidence about it, just possibilities.
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The thing you said sound like mythological. But the thing is God means "the only one". But that God we are talking about rules every universe, every dimension. That's why there is no "race" to be perfect. Race is occuring between people, God just watches us.
You're working off the assumption that the Judeochristian conception of God is true. Plenty of people believe that there is more than one god.
Nope. I do not belong any side on this matter. Plus, I don't name God as its actual meaning. Just state that many believers on the world name God like that. For a muslim or jewish or christian, it doesn't matter how many universe or dimension there could be. All that are ruled by the only one, it's God.
Besides, it is somehow baseless debate. There is no tangible evidence about it, just possibilities.
Its as baseless as ANY debate on god, as we have no tangible evidence either way. Not sure why we cant have a discussion on this point.
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Dude, don't get me wrong. You are right what you are saying. Of course we can talk about about but I think our assumptions on that matter would be mostly limited since like I said, there is no tangible evidence.
Theoretically, why not?
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Dude, don't get me wrong. You are right what you are saying. Of course we can talk about about but I think our assumptions on that matter would be mostly limited since like I said, there is no tangible evidence.
Theoretically, why not?
Right...I was merely speaking "theoretically". It was a tangent on a discussion here in PR that centered around "proof" that the universe had a beginning, and therefore something started that beginning....that thing being god. God was outside time and space. I just then thought that those parameters dont necessarily preclude there being more than one god starting one or more universes. If this isnt a discussion that the members here think has much value, or potential, I am cool with that. Just thought I would throw it out there to see if there was some logical problem with my scenario.
Carry on!
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The only logical problems with the scenario are the ones that also apply to the concept of a singular god ruling over this universe.
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
"Lord Ao created the universe that now holds the world of Toril."
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3.5 edition
Your argument is invalid.
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
Seriously? How does that address if it is reasonable or plausible to have more than one god?
EDIT: I understand your beliefs, but quoting the bible isn't the kind of discussion I was thinking about.
Fine....I keep assuming that the :biggrin: is implied. But I forget that that's why they make those stupid things. So....
:biggrin:
And further more....
:angel:
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
"Lord Ao created the universe that now holds the world of Toril."
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3.5 edition
Your argument is invalid.
(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/charlieshun.jpg)
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
"nu huh" - Adami P:25
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"nu huh" - Adami P:25
Please, you're doing hermeneutical gymnastics to make that verse mean what you want it to mean. That is hardly what the original Babylonian text was supposed to convey.
-J
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Simple translation error. The proper spelling is actually "nuh uh", and changes the entire meaning.
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
"Lord Ao created the universe that now holds the world of Toril."
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3.5 edition
Your argument is invalid.
(https://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/jammindude/charlieshun.jpg)
:lol
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This scenario is no different from when one set of people encountered another and discovered they had a different god. Like Jammin pointed out, bible followers and others of scripture would just shuffle around semantics until universe means all the other "verses" just like the "world" one day came to encompass both the old AND new worlds and god instantly had his empire expanded for him.
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This scenario is no different from when one set of people encountered another and discovered they had a different god.
Reading this I was just thinking how many different religions I have encountered on my travels at this point. So far I got Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, Native American and Aboriginal. At some point a certain "relativism" sets in when you see the umpteenth "true" religion :lol
rumborak
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This scenario is no different from when one set of people encountered another and discovered they had a different god.
Reading this I was just thinking how many different religions I have encountered on my travels at this point. So far I got Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, Native American and Aboriginal. At some point a certain "relativism" sets in when you see the umpteenth "true" religion :lol
rumborak
And not just the religion itself, but the various degrees of religiosity among them.
I was raised by Hindus and Muslims, went to Catholic school over 15 years, have dated a Sikh girl and am currently dating a Jewish girl. I can't help but think "here we go again" and then zone out when any religious person makes any claim about anything based on scripture. The only interest left I have in religion is purely anthropological.
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Sure it's possible.
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Dude, don't get me wrong. You are right what you are saying. Of course we can talk about about but I think our assumptions on that matter would be mostly limited since like I said, there is no tangible evidence.
Theoretically, why not?
I agree.
I was raised by Hindus and Muslims, went to Catholic school over 15 years, have dated a Sikh girl and am currently dating a Jewish girl. I can't help but think "here we go again" and then zone out when any religious person makes any claim about anything based on scripture. The only interest left I have in religion is purely anthropological.
Jeez.. that made me think!
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If a god is at the top of the food chain, a prime mover, eternal, outside of time and space, all powerful, etc....what about those attributes preclude there being more than one?
Food for thought:
If God from universe A and God from universe B contradict each other, and both are all-powerful and all-knowing, which one of them is wrong?
If God A and God B never contradict each other, why consider them separate entities at all?
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If God from universe A and God from universe B contradict each other, and both are all-powerful and all-knowing, which one of them is wrong?
There is no need for them to even interact, much less contradict.
If God A and God B never contradict each other, why consider them separate entities at all?
Because they are separate. They can be unique and not contradict each other.
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Because they are separate. They can be unique and not contradict each other.
If they both exist outside of time and space and are both all-knowing, then they must know of each other, correct? And they must each know that they are equally perfect. So why do they choose to create separate universes? If they do not disagree with each other in any way, shape, or form (which they logically cannot, what with both of them being absolutely perfect), why not just create one hypergigantic superuniverse and rule it together in all their perfection?
In a nutshell, they would obviously have had the chance to work together, and instead they chose not to. To me, this implies some difference of opinion. Does it not?
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Because they are separate. They can be unique and not contradict each other.
If they both exist outside of time and space and are both all-knowing, then they must know of each other, correct? And they must each know that they are equally perfect. So why do they choose to create separate universes? If they do not disagree with each other in any way, shape, or form (which they logically cannot, what with both of them being absolutely perfect), why not just create one hypergigantic superuniverse and rule it together in all their perfection?
In a nutshell, they would obviously have had the chance to work together, and instead they chose not to. To me, this implies some difference of opinion. Does it not?
No implied difference of opinion that I see. Maybe that is just the way it is with gods. Maybe they are perfectly satisfied playing with their own toys in solitude.
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Because they are separate. They can be unique and not contradict each other.
If they both exist outside of time and space and are both all-knowing, then they must know of each other, correct? And they must each know that they are equally perfect. So why do they choose to create separate universes? If they do not disagree with each other in any way, shape, or form (which they logically cannot, what with both of them being absolutely perfect), why not just create one hypergigantic superuniverse and rule it together in all their perfection?
In a nutshell, they would obviously have had the chance to work together, and instead they chose not to. To me, this implies some difference of opinion. Does it not?
No implied difference of opinion that I see. Maybe that is just the way it is with gods. Maybe they are perfectly satisfied playing with their own toys in solitude.
Fair enough. It just doesn't mesh with my idea of a supreme being, I suppose.
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"...there is no other God..." - God Isaiah 46:9
That's what the other God said... :lol