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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: nikatapi on July 28, 2011, 01:08:26 AM
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I know that Blabbermouth almost always posts stuff to create controversy, but i found this interview interesting:
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=161241 (https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=161241)
Guitar World: Do you believe it was Mike's [Portnoy, ex-DREAM THEATER drummer who played on AVENGED SEVENFOLD's 2010 album "Nightmare" and toured with the band for the latter part of last year] intention to stay on with [AVENGED SEVENFOLD]?
Gates: I think he definitely wanted to. And it would have been really nice. He's a great guy and a great drummer, and we consider him family. But it's just… He's "Mike Portnoy." He's established. He makes a lot of money. More than we can really dish out, especially at this point. And my whole thing after Jimmy ["The Rev" Sullivan, AVENGED SEVENFOLD's late drummer] died was if we were ever going to do this, I wanted to give a young kid a chance. That would have been a dream come true, to breathe some new life from a death. And so this feels right. And unfortunately, Mike made some decisions that I don't know if he's super happy with at this point, and that weren't very conducive to his well being.
Vengeance: When Mike first came on for "Nightmare", he was sincerely genuine in the fact that he was there to help us fulfill Jimmy's legacy, and for that we'll always be so thankful and appreciative. And, truthfully, he was really the only man for the job. But I think he was also searching for new things to do, music-wise. I know for a fact he was starting to lose the romance of DREAM THEATER a little bit. That had been going on from before he knew us. And then "Nightmare" came out and it was a Number One album, and the tours were huge, and I think it was exciting for him. I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD. But we weren't ready to have a new member. And truthfully, he's not the right fit anyway. When he went and quit DREAM THEATER, that was something we had no say in, because he's a grown man and he makes his own decisions. But we had urged against it, fully knowing we weren't ready to commit to him. But it's his life.
Guitar World: He enjoyed being a part of AVENGED SEVENFOLD.
Gates: Yeah, we had a blast. I think he liked the young energy. Mike's an outgoing, rock-star type of dude, so he was definitely enjoying the party. Because it's a different atmosphere than DREAM THEATER. When those guys play, it's a very intense thing that requires a lot of concentration. It's a different vibe with us.
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Well, there you have it.
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Does this mean people who blame A7X for MP quitting DT can stop now? :neverusethis:
(Great, I still remembered tard after all this time)
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This doent really surprise me.
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I never really blamed them and I don't get the logic behind blaming them.
Ouch @ the young/old references. This probably is the point the played MP in the head a lot the last few years.
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Oh Blabbermouth... keep stirring the pot. Keep beating the dead horse...
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How is it a dead horse? I thought it was interesting. I find the whole A7X thing more cryptic than the DT thing. With DT it was simple, Mike didn't want to do it anymore. But with Avenged, I knew that it wasn't gonna be permanent, I think most people knew, so when he was asked to leave, I was more surprised at how so many people (including Mike!) were surprised.
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It's just as soon as things start to die down... another article gets posted to keep the Portnoy subject alive. I have moved on. A lot of people have. Blabbermouth hasn't and won't until there is nothing left to squeeze from the subject
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In fact Blabbermouth keeps posting stuff about the MP situation, but this particular article seems interesting.
I think this is the first time that A7X tell that MP wanted to be in the band: " I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD" which is something new and Mike never really said something about joining A7X.
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I agree this may be the first time someone stated MP wanted to join A7X but to anyone following his news and tweets it was very obvious.
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I don't know why everyone is so sensitive about this subject like it's some sort of taboo. This was an interesting interview and one of the first to actually shed some real light on the subject.
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Does this mean people who blame A7X for MP quitting DT can stop now? :neverusethis:
(Great, I still remembered tard after all this time)
That's not something one easily forgets.
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Other than A7X urging Portnoy not to quit DT, that sounds basically like what I had been assuming. Anybody who thought they were responsible for Portnoy leaving was delusional to begin with.
-J
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:yarr i went last nov. to amsterdam to see mp with ax7 , a 75 minutes show with poor soun 13-15 year old kids and a mp who seemed to be very flattered when they sang "welcome to the family".
in 09 i was at 2 m&g in germany and i had the feeling mp was bored of the rest of dt.
how it comes out piece by piece is ( really) exactly like i felt it will be.
beeing at the 4th of juli(what a date) in rome and seeing the best dt ever live,
for me it falls all in the right place. all the best to mp, i will still buy all his records, but i am a dt - fan :millahhhh :heart :tup :tup
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:yarr i went last nov. to amsterdam to see mp with ax7 , a 75 minutes show with poor soun 13-15 year old kids and a mp who seemed to be very flattered when they sang "welcome to the family".
in 09 i was at 2 m&g in germany and i had the feeling mp was bored of the rest of dt.
how it comes out piece by piece is ( really) exactly like i felt it will be.
beeing at the 4th of juli(what a date) in rome and seeing the best dt ever live,
for me it falls all in the right place. all the best to mp, i will still buy all his records, but i am a dt - fan :millahhhh :heart :tup :tup
Aye, basically. You didn't even need to go to the meet and greets... just listen to any of his interviews from around the BCSL era and the apathy's out in full force. I've got no idea why he insisted on being the spokesman for a band he was definitely bored of. At best, the interviews were dull, and at worst, he would tell the interviewer that he wouldn't rehire James LaBrie if he had the choice and drive home that he had a lot more strings to his bow than just progressive rock. Loads of people noticed. Even on MP.com. They got the threads locked in the process, sure, but they noticed. It'd been in the works for ages.
Change was overdue. Hurrah for Mike Mangini and the rejuvenated Dream Theater, hurrah for Avenged Sevenfold putting everything into perspective (then and now), and hurrah for Mike Portnoy collaborating with a lot of very cool musicians and Neal Morse.
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It's just as soon as things start to die down... another article gets posted to keep the Portnoy subject alive. I have moved on. A lot of people have. Blabbermouth hasn't and won't until there is nothing left to squeeze from the subject
In all fairness, this is kind of new. We hadn't really heard anything from A7X on this particular point. They aren't regurgitating things that have already been published.
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Change was overdue. Hurrah for Mike Mangini and the rejuvenated Dream Theater, hurrah for Avenged Sevenfold putting everything into perspective (then and now), and hurrah for Mike Portnoy collaborating with a lot of very cool musicians and Neal Morse.
beautiful!
and this is actually one of the better posts to come out of blabbermouth in a long time which is err.. highly suprising. also surprising is the fact that there aren't any negative/troll comments, as of yet.
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I thought the most interesting part was about how MP was making way more money that AX7 could realistically compete with pay-wise. Where the F is it all coming from?
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The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
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The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
You know who's the only current or ex-member of DT following KM's Twitter account? Yep, you know where this is going.
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I thought the most interesting part was about how MP was making way more money that AX7 could realistically compete with pay-wise. Where the F is it all coming from?
25 years' worth of goodwill from endorsements, I guess? Do they pay their clients to advocate them? Certainly I imagine he'd get a share of the Melody Master snares profits, but it's an entirely unfamiliar industry to me, so I don't proclaim to be doing anything more than guessing.
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Who cares about twitter followings? James doesn't follow any of the band. Only some band with a female lead singer.
With all due respect to Avenged. and their fans and members, they really should've not said anything on the subject.
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Why not?
If I had a bunch of people blaming me for something I didn't do, I would definitely attempt to try and clear the whole thing up.
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:yarr i went last nov. to amsterdam to see mp with ax7 , a 75 minutes show with poor soun 13-15 year old kids and a mp who seemed to be very flattered when they sang "welcome to the family".
in 09 i was at 2 m&g in germany and i had the feeling mp was bored of the rest of dt.
how it comes out piece by piece is ( really) exactly like i felt it will be.
beeing at the 4th of juli(what a date) in rome and seeing the best dt ever live,
for me it falls all in the right place. all the best to mp, i will still buy all his records, but i am a dt - fan :millahhhh :heart :tup :tup
Aye, basically. You didn't even need to go to the meet and greets... just listen to any of his interviews from around the BCSL era and the apathy's out in full force. I've got no idea why he insisted on being the spokesman for a band he was definitely bored of. At best, the interviews were dull, and at worst, he would tell the interviewer that he wouldn't rehire James LaBrie if he had the choice and drive home that he had a lot more strings to his bow than just progressive rock. Loads of people noticed. Even on MP.com. They got the threads locked in the process, sure, but they noticed. It'd been in the works for ages.
Change was overdue. Hurrah for Mike Mangini and the rejuvenated Dream Theater, hurrah for Avenged Sevenfold putting everything into perspective (then and now), and hurrah for Mike Portnoy collaborating with a lot of very cool musicians and Neal Morse.
Really, what interviews are those? I actually didn't read or watch many interviews at all before MM joined the band, so I wouldn't really know.
The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
You know who's the only current or ex-member of DT following KM's Twitter account? Yep, you know where this is going.
Is that true? I wonder if maybe they'll finally patch things up?
Another thing I'm thinking about after having read this: MP got bored of Dream Theater. So does that mean there was no big division in the band as everyone has envisioned? Because as I remember, that recent JLB interview made it seem like another part of why he left was because of tensions that were reaching a boiling point.
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Another thing I'm thinking about after having read this: MP got bored of Dream Theater. So does that mean there was no big division in the band as everyone has envisioned? Because as I remember, that recent JLB interview made it seem like another part of why he left was because of tensions that were reaching a boiling point.
I don't think JLB said or implied things were reaching a boiling point, but like MP said, things were getting strained. Like, if you watch the making of SC documentary, while you can tell certain kinds of interactions the band members had in that doc lead to where we are now, they legitimately had fun making that record. Every time I saw one of Rudess's making of BCSL vids, it always felt like MP was a little unusually manic and JP was extra emotionally cool. For whatever reason, the tenor of the SC and BCSL sessions just seemed very different.
So really, maybe they would have. In January of 2011 MP comes into the studio not wanting to be there and brings that negative energy to anyone. JM sits around waiting for JP to write his bass notes, JLB decides to wait in Canada until the vocals are ready to be recorded since his input won't be asked for anyway. And on and on and on and on and on. With things apparently getting more negative over time, why not?
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:yarr i went last nov. to amsterdam to see mp with ax7 , a 75 minutes show with poor soun 13-15 year old kids and a mp who seemed to be very flattered when they sang "welcome to the family".
in 09 i was at 2 m&g in germany and i had the feeling mp was bored of the rest of dt.
how it comes out piece by piece is ( really) exactly like i felt it will be.
beeing at the 4th of juli(what a date) in rome and seeing the best dt ever live,
for me it falls all in the right place. all the best to mp, i will still buy all his records, but i am a dt - fan :millahhhh :heart :tup :tup
Aye, basically. You didn't even need to go to the meet and greets... just listen to any of his interviews from around the BCSL era and the apathy's out in full force. I've got no idea why he insisted on being the spokesman for a band he was definitely bored of. At best, the interviews were dull, and at worst, he would tell the interviewer that he wouldn't rehire James LaBrie if he had the choice and drive home that he had a lot more strings to his bow than just progressive rock. Loads of people noticed. Even on MP.com. They got the threads locked in the process, sure, but they noticed. It'd been in the works for ages.
Change was overdue. Hurrah for Mike Mangini and the rejuvenated Dream Theater, hurrah for Avenged Sevenfold putting everything into perspective (then and now), and hurrah for Mike Portnoy collaborating with a lot of very cool musicians and Neal Morse.
Really, what interviews are those? I actually didn't read or watch many interviews at all before MM joined the band, so I wouldn't really know.
You know? I can't find them. I was trying to reference 'em last month or so and scoured MP.com-and-further pretty thoroughly, including some creative google searching, but couldn't find a trace. I'm certain we haven't collectively hallucinated them, but I also haven't saved 'em. I'll give it another go.
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answering the question about the interviews i read one in the kerrang after the bc&sl release where mp
almost excused the picking of jlb at that times ,voices like his were cool at that time(queensryche) so we thought it would be good for us.
the worst part for me was when he was asked about the participation of 1, jlb:there were just six songs so there were no spaces for him
2, asked if he would look to jm in the concert(beeing the rythm section) mp said "i look to jp, he is the
man besides me blah blah.
it was not what he said but how he did put it.
we will see if he is making music with better bass players and better singers in the future.
i wish him luck. :xbones :tup
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actually there was a very similar interview in the german rock hard.
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I thought the most interesting part was about how MP was making way more money that AX7 could realistically compete with pay-wise. Where the F is it all coming from?
Well, he's co-wrote every song and they make a good amount of money touring. Then there's all his side projects, drum DVDs, etc etc.
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what me puzzles me the most in this circumstances, how nice and balanced jp comments all this.
i love mp, we know each other so long, and so on.
first mp told them he gonna record with ax7 then he told them he tours with them, then he tells them that all his sideprojects he likes much more just now,
and in the end he wants a five year break because he is burnt out( only with dt of corse).
what the f...
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actually there was a very similar interview in the german rock hard.
Incidentally, I used this info to try and search for it again... and I found similar comments in an interview from 2005!
Which would make this either...
a. A very unfair stick to bludgeon Mike with,
or
b. A symptom of long-term decay.
I think "a" is probably fairer, "b" a little sensational... or, more likely still, a mixture of the both. Either way, it makes it a little less of a "big deal" when talking about MP-2009. I still think it's pretty disrespectful, though, history of saying it or no, and I do completely stand by my claims that he was getting visibly more apathetic with each DT interview.
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i felt bad for A7X through all of this. their bandmate died and they got one of his heroes to fill in on drums which is great, but then they got caught in a shitstorm, because MP was even there to start with, and then after his decision to leave DT
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@Reap: That's interesting because maybe it's just from having become a fan as recently as post-8vm, but I guess seeing those same videos I assumed that's how the chemistry always had been. Or maybe I'm just really bad at reading people. :lol
@The Doctor: No worries, although I appreciate the effort. :)
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what me puzzles me the most in this circumstances, how nice and balanced jp comments all this.
i love mp, we know each other so long, and so on.
first mp told them he gonna record with ax7 then he told them he tours with them, then he tells them that all his sideprojects he likes much more just now,
and in the end he wants a five year break because he is burnt out( only with dt of corse).
what the f...
Three things:
- JP and MP were really, really close friends, and JP at least still feels that way. I can't imagine what line MP would have to cross in order for JP to take a potshot at him in public.
- JP believe it's not really in his interests to say anything negative about MP in public or even imply it. Someone asked him in an interview about DT's lawyers telling MP he couldn't rejoin the band, and JP straight up bailed on the question.
- I think JP perceives the changes in DT as less dramatic than pretty much everyone in the world. The perfect example of this is Myung. MP's line on contributing to the band has always been "every member of DT contributes as much or as little as they wish." Right after MP left the band, JP answered a question about Myung with essentially the same response. So LaBrie would more or less tell you 'Myung wasn't made welcome to contribute in some time, but on this album he was and he responded by upping his game.' Petrucci would probably tell you 'On this album Myung decided that he wanted to contribute to the band more.' This perspective on the band apparently works very well since Mangini/LaBrie/Myung/Rudess have all openly praised his production on the album, but to the fan, or at least to me, it's semi-confusing.
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@Reap: That was the most interesting thing to me too. Apparently MP was rolling in the dough.
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@Reap: That was the most interesting thing to me too. Apparently MP was rolling in the dough.
Which I still haven't quite wrapped my head around. Obviously MP does well for himself. His house is pretty nice and he just got a new Mustang. But while AX7 isn't the biggest thing in the world, I always imagined they were just on a different financial level from DT. While that still might be true of the band as a whole (specifically Myung and LaBrie, who don't do much outside the band), apparently MP's work on DVD's and side-projects is more than a creative outlet.
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@Reap: That was the most interesting thing to me too. Apparently MP was rolling in the dough.
Which I still haven't quite wrapped my head around. Obviously MP does well for himself. His house is pretty nice and he just got a new Mustang. But while AX7 isn't the biggest thing in the world, I always imagined they were just on a different financial level from DT. While that still might be true of the band as a whole (specifically Myung and LaBrie, who don't do much outside the band), apparently MP's work on DVD's and side-projects is more than a creative outlet.
MP also has a 2nd house in Arizona.
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@Reap: That was the most interesting thing to me too. Apparently MP was rolling in the dough.
Which I still haven't quite wrapped my head around. Obviously MP does well for himself. His house is pretty nice and he just got a new Mustang. But while AX7 isn't the biggest thing in the world, I always imagined they were just on a different financial level from DT. While that still might be true of the band as a whole (specifically Myung and LaBrie, who don't do much outside the band), apparently MP's work on DVD's and side-projects is more than a creative outlet.
MP also has a 2nd house in Arizona.
Well then.
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Maybe the fact that DT and especially Mike controlled many aspects of the band themselves, led to more income?
Also A7X maybe considered the fact that an unknown drummer would be satisfied with less money than MP.
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The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
They all bought into your contrived sincerity
And how you wore your heart and soul right on your sleeve
Laughing sarcastically
You turned your back on the people who adored you
Self-absorbed exhaustion
Self-esteem distortion
Self-infused extortion
Self-serving abortion
I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away
Reading through all the digests you show me
I notice the way that you think you control me
Doubting my future, you don't even know me
But I never walked out on you
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I mentioned this in another thread but it kind of got steam rolled. Mike wanting to take a five year break was such a huge parting of ways with the other members, and most likely for FINANCIAL REASONS. Transatlantic alone probably sells mire units than all the other member's side projects combined. Even polls on this very forum bear that out. Mike also most likely gets a bigger cut of DT DvD and CD sales because he gets the lions share of production and publishing/songwriting credits lately. He probably gets theargest cut from Ytse Jam sales, possibly gets an initial stipend for overseeing merch sales, and has released more insructional dvds than all the other membets combined. If even half of those speculations are true, his income is substantially more than the other members. He might have easily sustained himself for 5 years without a DT release as a result, but it's highly doubtful any of the others could have.
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I mentioned this in another thread but it kind of got steam rolled. Mike wanting to take a five year break was such a huge parting of ways with the other members, and most likely for FINANCIAL REASONS. Transatlantic alone probably sells mire units than all the other member's side projects combined. Even polls on this very forum bear that out. Mike also most likely gets a bigger cut of DT DvD and CD sales because he gets the lions share of production and publishing/songwriting credits lately. He probably gets theargest cut from Ytse Jam sales, possibly gets an initial stipend for overseeing merch sales, and has released more insructional dvds than all the other membets combined. If even half of those speculations are true, his income is substantially more than the other members. He might have easily sustained himself for 5 years without a DT release as a result, but it's highly doubtful any of the others could have.
I think that's generally pretty well accepted. Portnoy essentially - not to vilify him any more than he already has been, but in the broadest of terms, he sort of went up to the band and went "hey guys! Would you mind taking five years' unpaid holiday just 'cause I'm kinda bored?"
Not that I get the impression any of the band are just in Dream Theater for the money. They're musicians, they thrive on this stuff. Not to mention that they seem to be more pumped by the music than they've been in ages, right now, but the point is that it's probably a much bigger ask than I think Portnoy really considered.
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but the point is that it's probably a much bigger ask than I think Portnoy really considered.
Indeed. Aside from DT coming back bigger and better than ever, which I think is a dubious notion in-and-of itself, why was this hiatus good for anyone else in the band? Can you imagine any of them telling their wives they were thinking of doing this?
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MP also has a 2nd house in Arizona.
That's right he does. Now that tweet makes sense to me where he says something like 'Another fine day in Casa Portnoy New York.'
Anyways, there's no shocking revelation here, but it is nice to hear A7X say this in public, now we all know.
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The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
They all bought into your contrived sincerity
And how you wore your heart and soul right on your sleeve
Laughing sarcastically
You turned your back on the people who adored you
Self-absorbed exhaustion
Self-esteem distortion
Self-infused extortion
Self-serving abortion
I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away
Reading through all the digests you show me
I notice the way that you think you control me
Doubting my future, you don't even know me
But I never walked out on you
lol
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I won't walk awaaaaay
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not to forget, for me the fan a 5 year hiatus would have meant aleast five years no dt!!
and for them now they have for the first time support from their record company and then say ok we take a little break about say 5 years?
dt isn't a band who comes back even bigger,
nobody knows dt besides the fans,
somewhere i read latley " the biggest band in the world that nobody knows"
thats the perfekt description, even if i hope that it will change. :metal :heart
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not to forget, for me the fan a 5 year hiatus would have meant aleast five years no dt!!
and for them now they have for the first time support from their record company and then say ok we take a little break about say 5 years?
dt isn't a band who comes back even bigger,
nobody knows dt besides the fans,
somewhere i read latley " the biggest band in the world that nobody knows"
thats the perfekt description, even if i hope that it will change. :metal :heart
Agree with all of this.
Plus, something we don't think about as hardcore fans of the band - Once DT finally says goodbye, they don't have the immortality of Zeppelin, The Beatles, Floyd, and so on. They will eventually fade away until they're nothing more than a footnote in music history. Why begin that process early and then try to fight against it with a reunion?
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Also, remember that, unlike a lot of bands that have a big hit then piss all the bucks away, DT has been set up where all the bands income goes into a central account from which a salary is paid to each member. With 10 studio albums (including one gold record), several live releases (including several platinum-selling DVDs), and tour income over the years, they've probably all got a nice, steady income. And, I'll bet a lot of that got invested, yielding investment income on top of that.
And, they almost certainly get a much larger cut of the album sales, since they switched to RoadRunner.
So, I'll bet all the guys are doing pretty well, with MP taking in even more from his side projects, etc.
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:eekstill i don't think their like millionaires and they ars really working for their money and!
most importantly they are making me happy with their work! ;D ;D :heart :heart
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MP's income must have seen a massive drop then, if he was really raking in that much money during his DT time.
rumborak
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MP's income must have seen a massive drop then, if he was really raking in that much money during his DT time.
rumborak
Maybe that is why he tried to rejoin DT...
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MP's income must have seen a massive drop then, if he was really raking in that much money during his DT time.
rumborak
Maybe that is why he tried to rejoin DT...
Maybe that's one reason, but not everything involved. The amount of pressure he was recieving from fans and media was overwhelming. I see it more like an escape, and also a bit of realization that maybe he didn't make the best choice.
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This was pretty obvious from the way a7x said things the entire time, but yeah, glad it's finally out in the open.
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Well, many people in this forum were saying "This record-tour-record schedule has done a lot of harm to the band's creativity. They should take a break from making music together for a while, do side projects and come back to DT with a fresh music perspective". That's what exactly what MP wanted. And he never said 5 years AFAIK.
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MP's income must have seen a massive drop then, if he was really raking in that much money during his DT time.
rumborak
Depends on what the "leaving member" clause of the contract says. Does he keep the publishing? ;)
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Dream Theater sells shit loads of albums and DVDs worldwide. Avenged Sevenfold's biggest fan base is probably in the USA. Dream Theater is HUGE in Japan. Avenged Sevenfold really isn't.
Though, I was surprised to read that A7X wouldn't have been able to keep up with MP's mortgage.
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Dream Theater sells shit loads of albums and DVDs worldwide. Avenged Sevenfold's biggest fan base is probably in the USA. Dream Theater is HUGE in Japan. Avenged Sevenfold really isn't.
Though, I was surprised to read that A7X wouldn't have been able to keep up with MP's mortgage.
Good point with the world wide thing. Especially Japan.
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Well, many people in this forum were saying "This record-tour-record schedule has done a lot of harm to the band's creativity. They should take a break from making music together for a while, do side projects and come back to DT with a fresh music perspective". That's what exactly what MP wanted. And he never said 5 years AFAIK.
According to himself and DT, he asked for an indefinite hiatus in the end actually. I believe JR said that in successive conversations the amount of time slowly went up. First 6 months, then a year, then indefinite.
rumborak
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Well, many people in this forum were saying "This record-tour-record schedule has done a lot of harm to the band's creativity. They should take a break from making music together for a while, do side projects and come back to DT with a fresh music perspective". That's what exactly what MP wanted. And he never said 5 years AFAIK.
According to himself and DT, he asked for an indefinite hiatus in the end actually. I believe JR said that in successive conversations the amount of time slowly went up. First 6 months, then a year, then indefinite.
rumborak
Pretty sure it was the other way round. He wanted an indefinite hiatus, the guys were against that so he tried to give a rough amount of time, first suggesting 5 years, and then eventually desperately suggesting one year because they were still saying no.
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Well, many people in this forum were saying "This record-tour-record schedule has done a lot of harm to the band's creativity. They should take a break from making music together for a while, do side projects and come back to DT with a fresh music perspective". That's what exactly what MP wanted. And he never said 5 years AFAIK.
According to himself and DT, he asked for an indefinite hiatus in the end actually. I believe JR said that in successive conversations the amount of time slowly went up. First 6 months, then a year, then indefinite.
rumborak
Pretty sure it was the other way round. He wanted an indefinite hiatus, the guys were against that so he tried to give a rough amount of time, first suggesting 5 years, and then eventually desperately suggesting one year because they were still saying no.
Yep. That's how I remember it.
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Incredible that he tried to rejoin DT *after* they'd had the auditions and hired Mike Mangini. . .
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the strang thing for me is that on one side he wants a how long so ever break from his band and on the other side wants to join this boy group!??? :tdwn :loser:
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It's just as soon as things start to die down... another article gets posted to keep the Portnoy subject alive. I have moved on. A lot of people have. Blabbermouth hasn't and won't until there is nothing left to squeeze from the subject
In all fairness, this is kind of new. We hadn't really heard anything from A7X on this particular point. They aren't regurgitating things that have already been published.
Eh, yes and no. I think it was M Shadows (although it may have been Syn) who said most of those things quite awhile back. The only thing completely new is "I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD." But in fairness, these interviews do provide more detail than was previously put out there.
...so when he was asked to leave, I was more surprised at how so many people (including Mike!) were surprised.
Minor correction: He was not exactly "asked to leave." His original contract with the band was to tour with them through 2010 I think it was. From what I understand, they did not boot him early and ask him to leave. They only declined to extend the contract. And apparently, Mike assumed it was going to be extended beyond what was originally agreed to.
I also wouldn't assume from the comments above that Mike is "rolling in dough." From all appearances, he is comfortable. But I think it is more of an issue of him being able to take home more net from his income in DT because of the way they handle a lot of their own merchandising and have a lot of autonomy from their label. I'm betting A7X have a more traditional contract with the major label where everything is done on huge advances from the label and then the label and everyone else affiliated and under contract takes a huge cut of everything off the top. So even with A7X selling more albums and playing bigger shows (at least in the U.S.), they almost certainly take home a much smaller net percentage of the sales. Also, even if they brought Mike on full time, they may not have been prepared (metally, contractually, or whatever) to make him a full member. That may also play into why they felt they couldn't offer him as much as he would have asked for. Lots of variables we don't know.
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Bosky, I think you're being too careful here. The A7X guy straight-up said, "He makes a lot of money". Dude's rich. :lol
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Though, I was surprised to read that A7X wouldn't have been able to keep up with MP's mortgage.
I think it's more a matter of being hired in as the "new guy" in an established band. He wouldn't be making any of the royalties, etc. that the rest of the band is making on their back catalog.
Mangini is likely not going to be making as much money as a member of DT as MP made, for similar reasons. Apparently, he won't even be making as much money as he could raising exotic snakes. ;)
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Bosky, I think you're being too careful here. The A7X guy straight-up said, "He makes a lot of money". Dude's rich. :lol
Not sure what there is to be "careful" about. I just know a little bit about how the music industry works and am able to do the math.
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Bosky, I think you're being too careful here. The A7X guy straight-up said, "He makes a lot of money". Dude's rich. :lol
Not sure what there is to be "careful" about. I just know a little bit about how the music industry works and am able to do the math.
Just giving you a hard time for being the "I WOULDN'T ASSUME" guy.
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Well outside of DT, has has toured several times with other projects, has a Tama endorsement, a Sabian endorsement, custom sticks, a custom snare, custom cymbals, several instructional DVDs and a monopoly on both camels and expelling saliva.
That's gotta rake in some cash.
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Bosky, I think you're being too careful here. The A7X guy straight-up said, "He makes a lot of money". Dude's rich. :lol
Not sure what there is to be "careful" about. I just know a little bit about how the music industry works and am able to do the math.
Just giving you a hard time for being the "I WOULDN'T ASSUME" guy.
Yeah, well...well...YOU'RE UNSEASONED! SO THERE!
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Well outside of DT, has has toured several times with other projects, has a Tama endorsement, a Sabian endorsement, custom sticks, a custom snare, custom cymbals, several instructional DVDs and a monopoly on both camels and expelling saliva.
That's gotta rake in some cash.
Yes but how long will he have these endorsements if he falls off the radar? Which is already starting to happen from the majority of reaction i've seen on the net and the fact that his forum which used to be very lively is pretty much like a grave yard. I don't see it getting any better unless he does something successful. Does anyone see any of the bands he is in become successful really? The endorsements could dry up sooner rather than later.
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He's opening up for Godsmack soon.
He's not off the Radar.
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Yes but how long will he have these endorsements if he falls off the radar? Which is already starting to happen from the majority of reaction i've seen on the net and the fact that his forum which used to be very lively is pretty much like a grave yard. I don't see it getting any better unless he does something successful. Does anyone see any of the bands he is in become successful really? The endorsements could dry up sooner rather than later.
Being off the radar is the least of his worries. If I'm a Tama executive, I'm freaking out about the fact that he repeatedly stirs up negativity around him.
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Fair point, but I doubt anyone is reading what portnoy writes and then going "OMG I'M NEVER PLAYING TAMA AGAIN!"
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Actually, I just decided that I will probably never buy a Tama kit.
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Fair point, but I doubt anyone is reading what portnoy writes and then going "OMG I'M NEVER PLAYING TAMA AGAIN!"
No consciously, but these decisions are as much a matter of emotion as they are logic.
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Actually, I just decided that I will probably never buy a Tama kit.
Not even for me?
Well you're a lame father than I never knew I had till you cut off my hand.
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Didn't Mike just buy a Mustang? I'd call that "rolling in dough".
Maybe I'm just really broke.
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Actually, I just decided that I will probably never buy a Tama kit.
Not even for me?
Well, you never asked. Obviously, when I made that decision, I was operating on only the email I had onhand at that moment.
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Well I've designed a 28 piece kit (with around 17 cymbals) so if you could foot the bill for that.............I'd be happy.
Of course I was hoping it would be DW, but I'd settle for Tama, if you insist.
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He's opening up for Godsmack soon.
He's not off the Radar.
that's great and all but if the band ends up sucking it's not going to matter who he opens for. I can't count the amount of opening bands i've seen that went no where.
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He's opening up for Godsmack soon.
He's not off the Radar.
that's great and all but if the band ends up sucking it's not going to matter who he opens for. I can't count the amount of opening bands i've seen that went no where.
Sure he might lose some hardcore prog fans, but he'll probably gain a lot more mainstream rock fans. You know, the kind who think Joey Jordinson is the greatest drummer ever.
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i don't think its all about money, i think with mp last year he just had the feeling that everybody wanted something from him and he had a lot of options.
i think to get their place in music history is important for all the dt guys, especially for mp, beeing himself so conscious about music history. :metal :metal
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That interview pretty much sums up what I thought all along. I find the "big money" thing interesting. I always believed that Mike would rather do A7 instead of DT because it would mean more money with less work (also hinted at with the "different vibe than DT"). From a professional stand point, it makes a ton of sense for MP to want to be in A7 instead of DT. Add in the fact that he was getting tired of DT, non of this should surprise anyone. I find it interesting that A7 wanted someone younger, to me that sounds a bit like an excuse for another reason that they didnt want MP permanantly.
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He's opening up for Godsmack soon.
He's not off the Radar.
that's great and all but if the band ends up sucking it's not going to matter who he opens for. I can't count the amount of opening bands i've seen that went no where.
I feel confident in saying that MP won't lose his endorsement unless he chose to go with someone else. It's not so much as what he's doing now, as it is how many he's put behind the kit because of his music/clout as a drummerman.
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Well, many people in this forum were saying "This record-tour-record schedule has done a lot of harm to the band's creativity. They should take a break from making music together for a while, do side projects and come back to DT with a fresh music perspective". That's what exactly what MP wanted. And he never said 5 years AFAIK.
I don't think the record-tour-record cycle was making it stale, I think it was their writing cycle plus them pushing out John Myung and James LaBrie from the creative process that made it stale.
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I find it interesting that A7 wanted someone younger, to me that sounds a bit like an excuse for another reason that they didnt want MP permanantly.
I always wondered how they felt about him being kind of hammy behind the drum kit (i.e. roasting marshmallows on the fire cannons)
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Just another piece of info on the subject of income....
someone posted an interview recently from 2000 in either this forum or the mp.com forum, with Mike. This thread got locked and deleted pretty quickly, but it was a very blunt and honest interview.
They asked him what his biggest paycheque was and how he spent it. He responded by first mentioning that everything DT makes goes into a sort of 'band fund' and they draw their normal wages from that so he doesn't get big cheques from DT. He went on to mention that the last big cheque was from an unnamed side project and it was $30,000. (which he blew a lot of on cocaine apparently)
So I don't know what he was doing side project wise that would yield that kind of cash, but I can imagine he's still making a hell of a lot.
Anyways, this was a cool interview in what is turning out to be a very interesting story.
EDIT:
Found the interview...here's the exact quote...
18. How much was your biggest music related check for, and what did you do with it?
Actually all DT's money goes into a big melting pot which maintains our weekly salaries, so all my big checks and chunks come from outside side-projects or drum clinic/instructional related activities.. The last big check I got was around $30,000.00. I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!
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Is that unnamed project the Prime Cuts CD or something like that?
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This pretty much confirms what I said months ago - that Portnoy wanted to have his cake and eat it, too. He wanted Avenged AND he wanted DT. He didn't want to give up DT for Avenged, so he asked the other guys to put THEIR careers on hold while HE went out (like he thought would happen) and acted like a rock star. It's completely obvious.
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still i don't think their like millionaires and they ars really working for their money
Of course they are, not many people who own two houses on different sides of the country are worth less than $1M.
"Casa de Portnoy East" is appraised at $505,800.
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still i don't think their like millionaires and they ars really working for their money
Of course they are, not many people who own two houses on different sides of the country are worth less than $1M.
"Casa de Portnoy East" is appraised at $505,800.
Actually, most people who own two houses are worth WAY less than $1M. Even if the house in PA is appraising at $505,800, you have no idea what the loan balance is or even if it is positive.
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Is that unnamed project the Prime Cuts CD or something like that?
I highly doubt Prime Cuts gave him anything near $30,000. Had to be one of the bigger side projects.
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Of course they are, not many people who own two houses on different sides of the country are worth less than $1M.
"Casa de Portnoy East" is appraised at $505,800.
How do you know how much his house is worth?
I highly doubt Prime Cuts gave him anything near $30,000. Had to be one of the bigger side projects.
I thought there was some controversy surrounding that release and they had to settle with MP or something like that.
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If I'm a Tama executive, I'm freaking out about the fact that he repeatedly stirs up negativity around him.
Eh, I am guessing most fans have no idea about the internet drama, least of all Tama.
Didn't Mike just buy a Mustang? I'd call that "rolling in dough".
I woudn't. I've known a few people who have owned Mustangs, and none of them were what I would call rolling in dough. Granted, the difference between a run of the mill Mustang and a top of the line Mustang (can I assume Portnoy got closer to the latter?) is pretty big, so that might not mean much.
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I highly doubt Prime Cuts gave him anything near $30,000. Had to be one of the bigger side projects.
I thought there was some controversy surrounding that release and they had to settle with MP or something like that.
Oh, didn't know that. Yeah, if it was a settlement check, that's a reasonable amount. That could be.
And as far as how the band probably get paid, I don't know the specifics, but here is some basic corporations law applicable to small closely held corporations like DT: In a closely held corp., money flows in (hopefully) and the officers and directors and other employees get paid their salary or whatever. If the corporation is set up right, the money isn't taxed yet. But the employee/owner has to report it as income tax, so they are taxed at that level. At the corporate level, anything left in the corporation at the end of its tax year is usually taxed, so you USUALLY want to make sure that there is no money left in the corporation at the end of its tax year. Otherwise, it is taxed twice (The first time is when the corporation is taxed, which reduces the money; The second is whenever it is eventually paid out to whoever and they have to report it as income tax). So usually, to avoid the double taxation, toward the end of the year, after paying all expenses, you divvy up whatever money is still in the corporation and pay it out as bonues or dividends or something like that. So while the statement about the members of DT getting paid a monthly salary is probably correct, they probably get a bonus at the end of the tax year as well.
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Of course they are, not many people who own two houses on different sides of the country are worth less than $1M.
"Casa de Portnoy East" is appraised at $505,800.
How do you know how much his house is worth?
Not going to give more details because I already feel uncomfortable about posting something as personal as the appraisal. But obviously MP has posted a lot of pics and info about his house, and real estate transactions are on the public record and easily available on the web.... so it's not very hard to connect the dots.
Anyway, that price was a market appraisal for property tax purposes... he's the original owner, so it could potentially sell for more or perhaps less. And as Bosk pointed out, we don't know if there's a loan or not.
But forget the houses, you can also look at the income, they've sold over 10 million albums globally, so even if they only takes $1 in royalties after expenses, that's still $100k/year each averaged over their career... and touring is more lucrative than album sales. Factor in side projects, etc. and they should be making $200-500k per year before taxes. As long as they've been prudent with their saving and investments, I'd be shocked if they aren't all worth in the low millions by now.
That said, I totally agree with what has been pointed out a few times... their income isn't guaranteed to be sustainable, they have families to support, they probably plan to live 40 more years, and right now they have higher earning potential than ever. Taking a hiatus would have been VERY costly, people in their 40s/50s generally don't gamble with their retirement savings like that.
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EDIT:
Found the interview...here's the exact quote...
18. How much was your biggest music related check for, and what did you do with it?
Actually all DT's money goes into a big melting pot which maintains our weekly salaries, so all my big checks and chunks come from outside side-projects or drum clinic/instructional related activities.. The last big check I got was around $30,000.00. I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!
Wait what? Link please?
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The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
They all bought into your contrived sincerity
And how you wore your heart and soul right on your sleeve
Laughing sarcastically
You turned your back on the people who adored you
Self-absorbed exhaustion
Self-esteem distortion
Self-infused extortion
Self-serving abortion
I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away
Reading through all the digests you show me
I notice the way that you think you control me
Doubting my future, you don't even know me
But I never walked out on you
Thats uh...pretty fitting. :rollin :rollin :rollin
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...they've sold over 10 million albums globally, so even if they only takes $1 in royalties after expenses, that's still $100k/year each averaged over their career...
Yes. Maybe $1 per album for the band. So split that dollar 5 ways.
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Of course they are, not many people who own two houses on different sides of the country are worth less than $1M.
"Casa de Portnoy East" is appraised at $505,800.
How do you know how much his house is worth?
I know how. It's that one website that lets you search up anyone and gives you a bunch of details about them. Begins with an "S". Forgot what it's called. But I remember that Portnoy's house was about 500k.
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I know how. It's that one website that lets you search up anyone and gives you a bunch of details about them. Begins with an "S". Forgot what it's called. But I remember that Portnoy's house was about 500k.
Spokeo.com
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stalking.net?
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This pretty much confirms what I said months ago - that Portnoy wanted to have his coke and eat it, too. He wanted Avenged AND he wanted DT. He didn't want to give up DT for Avenged, so he asked the other guys to put THEIR careers on hold while HE went out (like he thought would happen) and acted like a rock star. It's completely obvious.
FTFY :hat
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stalking.net?
:tup
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EDIT:
Found the interview...here's the exact quote...
18. How much was your biggest music related check for, and what did you do with it?
Actually all DT's money goes into a big melting pot which maintains our weekly salaries, so all my big checks and chunks come from outside side-projects or drum clinic/instructional related activities.. The last big check I got was around $30,000.00. I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!
Wait what? Link please?
https://www.metalsludge.tv/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=202&Itemid=52
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4. Did you really think you could make it with first singer Charlie Dominici?
No. We knew we would be destined for obscurity...That's why we booted him and got a Canadian Favio look-alike instead!
Ouch!
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EDIT:
Found the interview...here's the exact quote...
18. How much was your biggest music related check for, and what did you do with it?
Actually all DT's money goes into a big melting pot which maintains our weekly salaries, so all my big checks and chunks come from outside side-projects or drum clinic/instructional related activities.. The last big check I got was around $30,000.00. I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!
Wait what? Link please?
https://www.metalsludge.tv/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=202&Itemid=52
Man! I remember reading this interview back when I was first getting into the band. Jesus. Also, my selective memory apparently forgot the cocaine thing, somehow. Crikey.
Also didn't register at the time that this was definitely an email interview.
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Wow, I must have missed that interview back on the day. Mike was a bit of a jerk about Charlie and Neil Peart, huh?
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EDIT:
Found the interview...here's the exact quote...
18. How much was your biggest music related check for, and what did you do with it?
Actually all DT's money goes into a big melting pot which maintains our weekly salaries, so all my big checks and chunks come from outside side-projects or drum clinic/instructional related activities.. The last big check I got was around $30,000.00. I built a deck onto my backyard, put some of it away for my kids and went out and bought a shitload of DVD's and cocaine!
Wait what? Link please?
https://www.metalsludge.tv/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=202&Itemid=52
Man! I remember reading this interview back when I was first getting into the band. Jesus. Also, my selective memory apparently forgot the cocaine thing, somehow. Crikey.
Also didn't register at the time that this was definitely an email interview.
At the time I know I figured he was joking about the cocaine thing. But now it doesn't seem like a joke. I know at the time when asked about some of his responses he said something along the lines of "It's metal sludge, you have to take those answers with a grain of salt. They want controversy".
The one quote in that interview I find to be really ironic now is this...
I guess Neil's people-skills are really lacking
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does anybody know where to find this stern thing about dt?
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One of the things I'm most surprised about is that another 'big' name band didn't ask Mike to join after A7X cut him loose.
I figured a free agent with his credentials and stage presence would have offers coming in like crazy. Think of how many
bands would be upgraded by him. BUT...it didn't happen, or if it did, we never heard about it. Instead, he has got a few
projects lined up and 2 of them are his "main bands" and will split time between them and neither will likely turn into anything
big.
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One of the things I'm most surprised about is that another 'big' name band didn't ask Mike to join after A7X cut him loose.
I figured a free agent with his credentials and stage presence would have offers coming in like crazy. Think of how many
bands would be upgraded by him. BUT...it didn't happen, or if it did, we never heard about it. Instead, he has got a few
projects lined up and 2 of them are his "main bands" and will split time between them and neither will likely turn into anything
big.
Did any big bands have vacant drum positions? I don't think a band would just ditch an existing drummer for a better one.
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One of the things I'm most surprised about is that another 'big' name band didn't ask Mike to join after A7X cut him loose.
I figured a free agent with his credentials and stage presence would have offers coming in like crazy. Think of how many
bands would be upgraded by him. BUT...it didn't happen, or if it did, we never heard about it. Instead, he has got a few
projects lined up and 2 of them are his "main bands" and will split time between them and neither will likely turn into anything
big.
Did any big bands have vacant drum positions? I don't think a band would just ditch an existing drummer for a better one.
you sure? DT did that with derek...
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Except Derek didn't quite fit in with DT and they had all wanted JR ever since Kev left anyway.
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One of the things I'm most surprised about is that another 'big' name band didn't ask Mike to join after A7X cut him loose.
I figured a free agent with his credentials and stage presence would have offers coming in like crazy. Think of how many
bands would be upgraded by him. BUT...it didn't happen, or if it did, we never heard about it. Instead, he has got a few
projects lined up and 2 of them are his "main bands" and will split time between them and neither will likely turn into anything
big.
Did any big bands have vacant drum positions? I don't think a band would just ditch an existing drummer for a better one.
you sure? DT did that with derek...
True, although I'd perhaps argue there's not as much to gain from a new drummer as their is with a keyboardist. Metal bands usually have pretty good drummers, so it would have to be a pretty big upgrade to fire your drummer, even for MP.
The situation with DT was apparently that they felt that Derek wasn't a good fit for the band's style, so I don't think it's as simple as just who's got the chops.
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That interview was good to read however. Mike is not the walking definition of OCD. He doesn't even have it. If he did, it would be much more debilitating
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That interview is completely new to me. Interesting.
That interview was good to read however. Mike is not the walking definition of OCD. He doesn't even have it. If he did, it would be much more debilitating
You know, I've always thought the same thing. Portnoy has some little quirks of what people casually, perhaps jokingly refer to as OCD, but absolutely not anything close to the clinical psychiatric disorder. But he's sure spent a lot of time talking about it over the years. :lol
-J
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That interview is completely new to me. Interesting.
That interview was good to read however. Mike is not the walking definition of OCD. He doesn't even have it. If he did, it would be much more debilitating
You know, I've always thought the same thing. Portnoy has some little quirks of what people casually, perhaps jokingly refer to as OCD, but absolutely not anything close to the clinical psychiatric disorder. But he's sure spent a lot of time talking about it over the years. :lol
-J
I have it. It ain't nice. If he had clinical OCD he wouldn't be able to tour or maybe even drum professionally never mind doing so for 25 years. The stress of touring would set off OCD big time. Also, if he had clinical OCD about the band then there is no way he'd ever be able to walk away like he has. If something is your obsession it just doesn't go away and you can't simply walk away. There is a massive difference between just being particular about things and having full on clinical OCD and MP is the former. He's not so much OCD but more like a control freak and a perfectionist.
Also the lyrics to Constant Motion sound like they're written out of a textbook and not by a sufferer. The lyrics describe it very well but they give no indication of the actual hell if entails.
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Also the lyrics to Constant Motion sound like they're written out of a textbook and not by a sufferer. The lyrics describe it very well but they give no indication of the actual hell if entails.
I don't think that comes from lack of experience on his part so much as his attempts to make a badass and cool song about having OCD.
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Also the lyrics to Constant Motion sound like they're written out of a textbook and not by a sufferer. The lyrics describe it very well but they give no indication of the actual hell if entails.
I don't think that comes from lack of experience on his part so much as his attempts to make a badass and cool song about having OCD.
I reckon Take The Time is about it too and is actually more accurate but you probably have a point with CM.
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Also the lyrics to Constant Motion sound like they're written out of a textbook and not by a sufferer. The lyrics describe it very well but they give no indication of the actual hell if entails.
I don't think that comes from lack of experience on his part so much as his attempts to make a badass and cool song about having OCD.
I reckon Take The Time is about it too and is actually more accurate but you probably have a point with CM.
Take the Time was written collectively.
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I reckon Take The Time is about it too and is actually more accurate but you probably have a point with CM.
One other thing I'd say, I don't want to act like an expert on OCD since you have it and I don't, but it seems to affect different people in different ways. I remember a Ray Allen interview (he's an NBA player for the Celtics), where he talked abut how as a kid if a shirt was sitting on the bottom of the steps it would physically pain him to not put it away. Even now he practices for games at the exact same time every game night. Bu he's able to handle Basketball, which can be a very sloppy sport, in spite of all that.
With Portnoy specifically, you could say that a lot of why he's handling having left the band so poorly could be OCD related. It's simply too alien to him to not be working on Ytsejam releases and writing setlists. I don't personally subscribe to it, but it's not 100% invalid.
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MP is a type A personality this would definitely fit his personality better then ocd
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I reckon Take The Time is about it too and is actually more accurate but you probably have a point with CM.
One other thing I'd say, I don't want to act like an expert on OCD since you have it and I don't, but it seems to affect different people in different ways. I remember a Ray Allen interview (he's an NBA player for the Celtics), where he talked abut how as a kid if a shirt was sitting on the bottom of the steps it would physically pain him to not put it away. Even now he practices for games at the exact same time every game night. Bu he's able to handle Basketball, which can be a very sloppy sport, in spite of all that.
With Portnoy specifically, you could say that a lot of why he's handling having left the band so poorly could be OCD related. It's simply too alien to him to not be working on Ytsejam releases and writing setlists. I don't personally subscribe to it, but it's not 100% invalid.
Yeah that's probably fair. Every sufferers obsessions/compulsions are different because it's entirely personal to that person. It's based on your personal worst fears at any one time. This can change or stay the same. Like I can still handle my academic work and playing bass on stage just fine but I've really struggled socially for ages now because of it. Only MP (and his therapist, if he has OCD and indeed a therapist) really knows how it affects him personally. My point was that depressive episodes are a big part of OCD and those do affect everything that you do, sometimes for weeks at a time, and are worse when under stress which touring provides in spades. When I have those I can barely do anything.
Portnoy handling it badly could be down to a number of reasons. Humans are inherently resistant to change (especially as they age) so it could be down to that. Maybe he was just getting stale or bored. To me his departure simply smacks of midlife crisis but only he knows how he feels.
MP is a type A personality this would definitely fit his personality better then ocd
That fits better, certainly the high achiever, controlling part. I had a girlfriend once who lived by the fact she had a type A personality and it wound me up no end. That said, a lot of those symptoms match me.
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This stuff is like listening to two sides in a divorce, you know each side is going to paint it according to their point of view. For all we know, some of the members of A7X might have been originally excited and wanted MP on the team but when it came down to brass tacks, they realized his wealth of experience on the business side and what he would likely demand might change the band dynamic. I'm sure MP probably saw a lot of things in their operation where he had suggestions from his 30 years in the business.
As for his wealth, the dude outworks everybody, period. Its hard to not imagine some professional jealousy in all of the parties based on his ability to keep so many balls successfully in the air. Even so, this isn't Wall Street and he isn't Hedge Fund rich, probably just financially comfortable with good financial advisors/lawyers.
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I think you mean 20 years in the business. ;)
And I would not say he outworks everyone. Someone like Steven Wilson, for example, is always involved in just as many projects, and is almost always a or THE main songwriter, which is more than can be said for Portnoy. Not taking anything away from Portnoy's contributions or work ethic, but this myth that he outworks everyone is just that: a myth.
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I think you mean 20 years in the business. ;)
And I would not say he outworks everyone. Someone like Steven Wilson, for example, is always involved in just as many projects, and is almost always a or THE main songwriter, which is more than can be said for Portnoy. Not taking anything away from Portnoy's contributions or work ethic, but this myth that he outworks everyone is just that: a myth.
How much is Wilson involved with the business side of his work though?
Also, I doubt Portnoy outworks everyone, but during his DT days at least he was easily in the top 1% of hardworking musicians.
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I can't imagine someone as detail-oriented as Wilson is not having a heavy hand in the business side of things as far as his work goes. Not every musician who works hard has to tell everyone about it non-stop. ;)
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I can't imagine someone as detail-oriented as Wilson is not having a heavy hand in the business side of things as far as his work goes. Not every musician who works hard has to tell everyone about it non-stop. ;)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Regarding the interview, I think it only makes perfect sense once someone points it out. 'The Rev' was a huge MP fan who inspired him a lot. A7X had this great idea of inviting MP because he was the only one at the moment who could replace 'The Rev'. After the studio recording and the first leg of the tour were over (I don't really know if the tour is over and they've released a new album), the band was going to reorganize. Sure, it would have been cool for MP to join A7X, but there were other plans. They wanted to give "a new kid a chance"... so MP just had to do what he was asked for. Sadly, he enjoyed his permanence in that band way too much and got the bad news.
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I think you mean 20 years in the business. ;)
And I would not say he outworks everyone. Someone like Steven Wilson, for example, is always involved in just as many projects, and is almost always a or THE main songwriter, which is more than can be said for Portnoy. Not taking anything away from Portnoy's contributions or work ethic, but this myth that he outworks everyone is just that: a myth.
I know the anti-MP sentiment is fairly high these days, but you don't get to rewrite history when all the work is out there. The side projects, YTSEJAM issues, the drum cam DVDs, and according to MM, the impetus behind all the covers the band has done over the years. But yeah, I did mean 25 years.
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He didn't do the YTSEJAM releases on his own. He hand-picked the material while JP took care of the business and manufacturing side, which can be argued is more work.
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Fred Norris or Jackie The Jokeman = Fred...He sometimes plays our song The Mirror in and out of commercials
:metal MP made the right choice there
edit: :lol
howard stern "i need to chop up one of my pets when i hear that music" about the mirror
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLblbffKej4
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He didn't do the YTSEJAM releases on his own. He hand-picked the material while JP took care of the business and manufacturing side, which can be argued is more work.
I can tell you first hand that MP seemed active in pretty much every part of the process (not only for Ytsejam, but for most DT related stuff too), even those he was not directly involved with. I wouldn't say he was a control freak, because he didn't overstep his place as far as I was concerned, but at the end of the day, he would look over everything at some point to approve it, or suggest changes.
I don't know how you'd relate that to "work", but he spent a lot of his time ensuring everything was right. A lot of these weren't things he needed to do, and would have happened without his input, but he seemed to put every bit of his spare time into ensuring everything was good enough. I can't imagine anyone being more dedicated to their band, for better or worse.
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I found the line about having his way with his daughter's Britney Spears Barbie Doll borderline creepy, even though he was joking :lol
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Does anybody actually know how many years the hiatus that Mike proposed to rest of DT?
Also, it seems to me that Avenged couldn't let Mike join as it is obvious that he wouldn't stay in the background for long. That's Mike he has to be up there. So perhaps the power structure in Avenged was going to be radically altered if he was to join. Telling quote from JameS LB recently about DT 'The band is better balanced now'. In other words it's more democratic.
However, I can't help but think how this is going to affect Mike in the coming years. I do have sympathy for him.
I don't think he can join a band for the reasons outlined above, the only alternative he has to form a new one.
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Transatlantic just needs to be a more active band :metal
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I don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.
@tarkusman: I don't think Portnoy had a set number of years for a hiatus at first, but in the big Music Radar interview a while back, Rudess said it was five.
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Five years is a ridiculous amount of time.
It sounds like a guy who was asking for his exit visa.
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Transatlantic just needs to be a more active band :metal
Now, that would be just incredible.
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I don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.
This.
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... but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.
i never understood this perspective and the lyrics of never enough are completely lost on me. the fans PAY for everything MP ever did. none of it was ever free and MP pocketed from his hard work. i'm not understating his dedication to DT or anything like that, but saying that everything he does is for the fans, to me, is a bit of a cop out. without the fans, DT wouldn't have continued to exist as they simply wouldn't make any bank. if anything, all of his work was intended to keep the current fans happy so that they would continue to spend $$ and also to gain new ones.
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... but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.
i never understood this perspective and the lyrics of never enough are completely lost on me. the fans PAY for everything MP ever did. none of it was ever free and MP pocketed from his hard work. i'm not understating his dedication to DT or anything like that, but saying that everything he does is for the fans, to me, is a bit of a cop out. without the fans, DT wouldn't have continued to exist as they simply wouldn't make any bank. if anything, all of his work was intended to keep the current fans happy so that they would continue to spend $$ and also to gain new ones.
Although Dream Theater doesn't specifically work for the fans, some fans are unbelievably rude and annoying.
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... but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.
i never understood this perspective and the lyrics of never enough are completely lost on me. the fans PAY for everything MP ever did. none of it was ever free and MP pocketed from his hard work. i'm not understating his dedication to DT or anything like that, but saying that everything he does is for the fans, to me, is a bit of a cop out. without the fans, DT wouldn't have continued to exist as they simply wouldn't make any bank. if anything, all of his work was intended to keep the current fans happy so that they would continue to spend $$ and also to gain new ones.
The point is that, whatever his motivation for doing so was, Portnoy always did a lot for DT fans.
Like... OK. Before DT, my favorite band was Metallica. Now, Metallica are much better about this now, but back around 2004, I was always kind of disappointed that no one in the band kept in constant touch with fans, that they didn't release more live DVDs, etc.
Around 2005, I discovered DT, and they did all those things. MP was always on his forum. They always released DVDs. There was a documentary with every DVD. Audio commentaries. Live bootlegs.
At the end of the day, I think that's going to be DT's biggest contribution to music: unbelievable fan-friendliness; and Portnoy was a big part of that.*
* Also, even though I - again - don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, I don't think he only did stuff for DT fans for money. He really cares about his fans, which is probably what gets him in trouble the most, actually. He cares too much for his own good.
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Although Dream Theater doesn't specifically work for the fans, some fans are unbelievably rude and annoying.
is this a shot at me?
The point is that, whatever his motivation for doing so was, Portnoy always did a lot for DT fans.
Like... OK. Before DT, my favorite band was Metallica. Now, Metallica are much better about this now, but back around 2004, I was always kind of disappointed that no one in the band kept in constant touch with fans, that they didn't release more live DVDs, etc.
Around 2005, I discovered DT, and they did all those things. MP was always on his forum. They always released DVDs. There was a documentary with every DVD. Audio commentaries. Live bootlegs.
At the end of the day, I think that's going to be DT's biggest contribution to music: unbelievable fan-friendliness; and Portnoy was a big part of that.*
* Also, even though I - again - don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, I don't think he only did stuff for DT fans for money. He really cares about his fans, which is probably what gets him in trouble the most, actually. He cares too much for his own good.
ok, i totally agree on the fan-friendliness as far as forums and public relations. that's fine. but releasing a dvd, at the end of the day, is about bringing in $. bonus material on said dvds is only going to get you more sales. maybe MP views at as doing something special for them, but i simply see it as business...smart business.
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Yeah, as....much as MP is being what he is right now, he did a LOT for the fans (for better or worse). very respectable for that.
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Yeah, as....much as MP is being what he is right now, he did a LOT for the fans (for better or worse). very respectable for that.
True, sure he made money off the fans, but at the end of the day he gave the fans what they wanted. We wanted live DVDs, commentaries, communication, rotating setlists... And he was a big reason why we got those things. Of course there are other motivations to do it other than "for the fans" but that doesn't matter because at the end of the day, he kept the fans happy. This is probably the only thing I like about the guy personally besides his actual drumming. I have a lot of respect for him for what he has done for the fans that most bands don't do. That doesn't change my opinion of him about other matters though.
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Yeah, as....much as MP is being what he is right now, he did a LOT for the fans (for better or worse). very respectable for that.
True, sure he made money off the fans, but at the end of the day he gave the fans what they wanted. We wanted live DVDs, commentaries, communication, rotating setlists... And he was a big reason why we got those things. Of course there are other motivations to do it other than "for the fans" but that doesn't matter because at the end of the day, he kept the fans happy. This is probably the only thing I like about the guy personally besides his actual drumming. I have a lot of respect for him for what he has done for the fans that most bands don't do. That doesn't change my opinion of him about other matters though.
Exactly. And to your very last point, being that kind of fan-friendly person in one regard doesn't make him free to say/do whatever. And that's where the current issues lie.
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People get spoiled. DT fans got spoiled. What other fans are constantly asking for an official live release of every single song the band has released so far? Portnoy did a fucking lot for the band, but I'm sure the band as it is will continue to do so. I recall Portnoy saying something like "thank ME for making the instrumental versions of the songs available......."(concerning Black Clouds). And hey, surprise! Also instrumentals for the new album available.
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People get spoiled. DT fans got spoiled. What other fans are constantly asking for an official release of every single song the band has released so far? Portnoy did a fucking lot for the band, but I'm sure the band as it is will continue to do so. I recall Portnoy saying something like "thank ME for making the instrumental versions of the songs available......."(concerning Black Clouds). And hey, surprise! Also instrumentals for the new album available.
lol, true. While in the past MP did a lot of the extra work, but I believe the band stated others will pick up the slack to continue doing the things the fans got accustomed to.
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Yes, but no stems /everythingisneverenoughlulz
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Maybe that has something to do with the mixer? Andy Wallace is a big guy in the industry, and maybe making those stems available had a big price for the DT guys to pay. Just speculating here.
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Joking darklol, that I was...making a joke... :biggrin:
MP
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MP?
Jamesman, are you really MP in disguise?
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Well, if I said no, would you believe me?
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no....sorry to ruin the surprise for you. It was ME all along!
...let me turn off the "fan", I'm starting to get cold in here.
MP
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LISTEN !!! I am revealing a secret member for DTF in the coming months...let's just say that this is a dream come true of mine and that you all will be blown away....
But enough about me, did you all hear my drumming in my new band? :biggrin:
Carp Diem........
MP
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Transatlantic just needs to be a more active band :metal
If Portnoy's wallet is really taking a hit as a result of no longer being in DT, like has been speculated, then unfortunately I think that makes it more unlikely that TA would ever become more active, as I can't see that being a project where the guys make a ton of money off of it.
Five years is a ridiculous amount of time.
It sounds like a guy who was asking for his exit visa.
I disagree. I think it sounds like a guy who was used to getting his way and figured he would get it once again.
* Also, even though I - again - don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, I don't think he only did stuff for DT fans for money. He really cares about his fans, which is probably what gets him in trouble the most, actually. He cares too much for his own good.
Agreed. Plus, I think he does stuff that he wishes all of his favorite bands growing up would have done. I think he has said that before. Given that he is someone who wants anything and everything by the band he loves the most, even to this day, I think one of his main motivations was always giving the fans everything he figured he would want if he were just a fan.
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Transatlantic just needs to be a more active band :metal
If Portnoy's wallet is really taking a hit as a result of no longer being in DT, like has been speculated, then unfortunately I think that makes it more unlikely that TA would ever become more active, as I can't see that being a project where the guys make a ton of money off of it.
Mp could sustain himself for long while at the rate he is going, he has also kept himself relevent in the drum world by winning awards which turn into money from tama promark and sabian on top his never ending project saga.
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Maybe that has something to do with the mixer? Andy Wallace is a big guy in the industry, and maybe making those stems available had a big price for the DT guys to pay. Just speculating here.
I'd say it's more just a matter of not repeating themselves. If they do it on a few albums in a row, it's going to become expected, then people will be disappointed when they don't. On SC we got the 5.1 mix and the documentary, on BCASL we got the instrumental mixes and the stems, and on this one we get the drummer documentary and instrumental versions(?). I'm still waiting for the bonus action figure, to be honest. It's an incomplete collection now without Magini.
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I don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.
This.
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Maybe that has something to do with the mixer? Andy Wallace is a big guy in the industry, and maybe making those stems available had a big price for the DT guys to pay. Just speculating here.
I'd say it's more just a matter of not repeating themselves. If they do it on a few albums in a row, it's going to become expected, then people will be disappointed when they don't. On SC we got the 5.1 mix and the documentary, on BCASL we got the instrumental mixes and the stems, and on this one we get the drummer documentary and instrumental versions(?). I'm still waiting for the bonus action figure, to be honest. It's an incomplete collection now without Magini.
but you...you're the one who makes the action figurs. :(
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I'm still waiting for an album to come with an inflatable JR doll. :(
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I'm still waiting for an album to come with an inflatable JR doll. :(
I was hoping for a black tee cargo pants and combat boots to complete it.
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Although Dream Theater doesn't specifically work for the fans, some fans are unbelievably rude and annoying.
is this a shot at me?
No! :laugh:
I haven't seen that kind of fan in DTF.
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Does this mean people who blame A7X for MP quitting DT can stop now? :neverusethis:
I will never not blame AX7 for MP leaving Dream Theater. Is it their fault? Of course not. Are they the reason MP got "tired" of DT only– to be not too tired of them to want to be back in when other doors closed? That all just seems a little convenient, hey?
I've lost a lot of respect for MP in the past year. I almost feel as if he was blinding me with DT love the past 8 or 9 years.
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i will never lose respect for MP.
he made me interested in drumming and DT. i got all his DVD's and he was devoted to DT and there fans.
we want bootlegs, he provided good bootlegs, no shitty stuff, and that he's getting $ for all the hard work hours he spend on it it nothing but normal....(like if you like your boss, you say ahh well i work 24 hours today, but it's for free, just because i like you???).
he always gave comments on his forum and questions of fans, he made sure that every gig had a different setlist, made sure that what the fan bought was of a good quality, and this while the other members...well where not doing this however they do get $$ because of the royalities..now that's easy money!!
that he left DT was really shitty to me, but hey it's there choice, iam not in DT and i only know them from music, dvd,s interviews and such....so..i dont know them at all, nobody on here does. so why judge? maybe it turns out in 10 years that JMX is the biggest dick on earth?? how knows....
DT is alive, MP is making music and still talking to fans, but not it's MP fans not DT fans in general eventhough the majority of mp fans are dt fans. now with FB and twitter connecting to fans is easier and direct and that's not always good, for the poster, which in this case is MP, some post backfired..ahh well ....who cares.
MP was the only one in DT acutally making a shot when DT perfroms, while the other just stand ( i still hate it if JR slaps his leg on the beat like he's doing a orchestra or something...really annoying!!!) ....besides of MP there was no showmanship at all in DT and now with MM the others are trying to fill that gap. MP is ...THE MAN ,still is , will every be...he's a great drummer, great muscian and a smart business man. all the love and respect for him and for DT... it's albout the music at the end of the day... i pop in a cd to listen to DT, not opening amagzine to read t here words over and over again.....
And AX7......thats was a fun ride for MP...so what....
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To be honest, can you really say that MP did ALL the work of all those extras the fans get? Sure I get that he comes up with the ideas, and I'm sure he compiled all the Ytsejam stuff, but from what I understand he just oversees the final production. A lot of it is just having a great group of people that can get things done. So he wanted to release stems with BC&SL, all he has to do is tell the record company that and they get it done. I really doubt he did more than that. Same goes for a lot of other stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I love all the extras and MP sure was a driving force behind that but I don't think it was much more than that.
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have you ever created a DVD for yourself?? just a normal vacation DVD who is only for personal purposes?
that even takes a whole week collecting all the great moments vids putting them in order adding stuff etc...and than just your low budget home recroding stuff..not something which will be put on shelfs.....
when you record a ....DVD
1: first you have to figure out on what venue you want to do this
2: you have to hire people who film, and you have to have many discussion on how tho film, where to film what etc
3: when that's done you ahve to go through all the footage of all teh camera's and compile your movie
4: the sound have to be checked, mixed enigineerd etc
5: the menu ahs th be thought about
6 the extras
7; the marketing part
8: the cover, the font evertying....
and when you have than seen the pre production product for the 130912385 time...than you can ask the reocrd companiny if they agree and than it can be produced (ofcourse the record company is conatstly involved... just saying)....
anyway this ia bitch process with trial and error...
alMP has spend more time off stage doing stuff for DT than on stage i think....
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i will never lose respect for MP.
For me there are two things here. I have totally lost respect for Mike as a person in the last year. But I still have the same amount of respect I did for him as a player. And I appreciate what he did for the fans in the past. But that's OK. There are lots of other great artists out there that are jerks but make great music. I can usually separate the two.
I saw someone recently suggest that part of his doing everything for the fans is because he loves the feedback from people saying he is the best in the world. While I do think he is doing things he wanted to see his favorite bands do, I think that he also loves the praise that he gets from the fans. He wants that validation.
On SC we got the 5.1 mix and the documentary
If that is a sign of what we can expect from 5.1 mixes from DT in the future, then I don't EVER want them to bother. Maybe I have been spoiled by the Porcupine Tree, King Crimson, and Genesis 5.1 mixes, but that was just horrid. I'm pretty sure Mike said that he was very unhappy with it himself.
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i have lost respect for MP, but he will always be the original DT and LTE drummer, and i will think of him for that, even though his actions in the past year have been almost funny
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Until MP comes clean and takes back what he's said and changes/stops his way of publicly "addressing" things, my respect for him will remain lower than what it was.
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have you ever created a DVD for yourself?? just a normal vacation DVD who is only for personal purposes?
that even takes a whole week collecting all the great moments vids putting them in order adding stuff etc...and than just your low budget home recroding stuff..not something which will be put on shelfs.....
when you record a ....DVD
1: first you have to figure out on what venue you want to do this
2: you have to hire people who film, and you have to have many discussion on how tho film, where to film what etc
3: when that's done you ahve to go through all the footage of all teh camera's and compile your movie
4: the sound have to be checked, mixed enigineerd etc
5: the menu ahs th be thought about
6 the extras
7; the marketing part
8: the cover, the font evertying....
and when you have than seen the pre production product for the 130912385 time...than you can ask the reocrd companiny if they agree and than it can be produced (ofcourse the record company is conatstly involved... just saying)....
anyway this ia bitch process with trial and error...
alMP has spend more time off stage doing stuff for DT than on stage i think....
okay, yeah. Portnoy did all those things, but he wasn't probably the best DVD director out there. Yeah, it was cool, but at that rhythm of "OCD" sooner or later he was gonna get tired. No one told him he had to do those things, it was his choice. I wouldn't be very impressed if the next DT live DVD has an amazing direction, because the guys are probably get someone who really knows how to do that stuff.
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And this would be MP's response
I do everything for you guys! I'm a little hurt that you would feel that way DarkLord_Lalinc. (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/s9.gif)
I do a lot for all of you "fans" out there. It would be nice to get some appreciation once in awhile.
All of you true fans out there, thank you (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/banana.gif)
And yes, for your information, I do have OCD. I have all the symptoms, but never been diagnosed. But I know I have it (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/s5.gif)
Never Enough,
MP
In all seriousness though, those DVDs were great, but he didn't need to do them. I was somewhat relieved when he said no DVD this past tour. I thought he'd take a little bit of a break. I guess not though.
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And this would be MP's response
I do everything for you guys! I'm a little hurt that you would feel that way DarkLord_Lalinc. (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/s9.gif)
I do a lot for all of you "fans" out there. It would be nice to get some appreciation once in awhile.
All of you true fans out there, thank you (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/banana.gif)
And yes, for your information, I do have OCD. I have all the symptoms, but never been diagnosed. But I know I have it (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/s5.gif)
Never Enough,
MP
In all seriousness though, those DVDs were great, but he didn't need to do them. I was somewhat relieved when he said no DVD this past tour. I thought he'd take a little bit of a break. I guess not though.
(https://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/22/obama_applause_2.gif)
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I don't wanna come across as negative. I never said I dislike those DVDs, I love them as much as you all do. I just said that they can only get better because, you can't do 15 things and be perfect at all of them. Having certain people perform certain tasks might be better in the bigger picture.
...."fan"
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I was just looking for the opportunity to do a MP style post, and the opportunity was presented to me. I know you weren't being negative. I suppose though MP would have made it sound negative.
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Just for the record :D
Your MP post is missing some "......." and also some "..............."
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Well I guess I can't please every "fan" out there (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/banana5.gif)
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:lol
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The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
They all bought into your contrived sincerity
And how you wore your heart and soul right on your sleeve
Laughing sarcastically
You turned your back on the people who adored you
Self-absorbed exhaustion
Self-esteem distortion
Self-infused extortion
Self-serving abortion
I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away
Reading through all the digests you show me
I notice the way that you think you control me
Doubting my future, you don't even know me
But I never walked out on you
I think it's pretty interesting how people like to throw these lyrics back in MP's face. Kev was in the band for 3 albums, Mike put in 20+ years and helped get this band to where it is right now. He also didn't want this to be a permanent thing.
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It's ironic
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I think it's pretty interesting how people like to throw these lyrics back in MP's face. Kev was in the band for 3 albums, Mike put in 20+ years and helped get this band to where it is right now. He also didn't want this to be a permanent thing.
Nor, however, did he prioritise the band above gallivating around and doing other things. He chose new pastures over Dream Theater, which - pushed into it or no - he had to do. He was given a choice between "Dream Theater" and "something else," and in lieu of being able to have his cake and eat it (which incidentally is not a phrase that makes a lick of sense, and should probably be phased out), he went for "something else."
Kevin, too, was in the band for a decade, and had been a member of it for its entire life when they wrote Raise the Knife. It's not like he hadn't invested a lot into it either. I think the situations are pretty closely comparable.
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Good points Robbybaby
and in lieu of being able to have his cake and eat it (which incidentally is not a phrase that makes a lick of sense, and should probably be phased out),
I'm glad I'm not the only one.
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Yeah, I have no idea what the cakeless person in that analogy is meant to be eating. If he's got some sort of cake substitute, it should really have been worked into the narrative at some point. As it stands, the options are:
- Hoard a cake just to stare blankly into its doughy edifice.
- Make futile chewing motions with your mouth while starving to death.
Neither of which are actually scenarios that you could ever be encumbered with for reasons outside your own control. The phrase is frankly flawed from the ground up.
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To me, it was always more about "Well, if I eat this cake, that means I do, in fact, have it, so suck it analogycocktease.com!"
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Oh! I see. So "having" it is an action in itself. That does actually make a bit more sense now. But not much. Who the fuck brags about cake?
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Those same damn people who call kettles black.
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Those same damn people who call kettles black.
Pots, mostly, then.
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Oh! I see. So "having" it is an action in itself. That does actually make a bit more sense now. But not much. Who the fuck brags about cake?
Obviously you've never had mud cake. That is some bragworthy stuff right there. On a related note, I totally have mud cake.
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Ahh, stoners. You know what they say, those without sin cast the first stone. Or is that in Rome, because they all do that there. Hmm. There's no place like home.
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The use of smilies was perfect.
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The irony of the situation is that MP basically pulled a Kevin Moore. It is more and more looking like MP had lost the interest on the band. It is also beginning to look like that he has also lost interest on progressive metal (as none of his new projects could be classified to that category). Of course the latter point is less certain than the first.
While it is perfectly fine for a man's opinions to change, it feels a bit weird that MP spent 15 years bad-mouthing KM for leaving the band. But in the end, he did exactly the same thing with the same reasons. I wonder what MP would say about KM now?
They all bought into your contrived sincerity
And how you wore your heart and soul right on your sleeve
Laughing sarcastically
You turned your back on the people who adored you
Self-absorbed exhaustion
Self-esteem distortion
Self-infused extortion
Self-serving abortion
I'll take the blame for these things that I say
'Cause I had the heart and the will and the courage to stay
Every day
I won't walk away
Reading through all the digests you show me
I notice the way that you think you control me
Doubting my future, you don't even know me
But I never walked out on you
I think it's pretty interesting how people like to throw these lyrics back in MP's face. Kev was in the band for 3 albums, Mike put in 20+ years and helped get this band to where it is right now. He also didn't want this to be a permanent thing.
What does the time in the band have to do with it? People throw those lyrics in MP's face because he is guilty of the same things that he railed against KM for. I don't see any problem with this.
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Oh! I see. So "having" it is an action in itself. That does actually make a bit more sense now. But not much. Who the fuck brags about cake?
Obviously you've never had mud cake. That is some bragworthy stuff right there. On a related note, I totally have mud cake.
Sounds like it's time to change your underwear, then.
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those without sin cast the first stone.
https://www.youtube.com/user/edenscurse#p/u (https://www.youtube.com/user/edenscurse#p/u)
Skip to 1:06 (https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/upfiles/smiley/s5.gif)
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I've come to another realization about why Mike was burnt out.
Obviously we all know that he overworked himself. But look at all the things the band accomplished...every single milestone they or he (MP) set out to do...well almost.
They did the following:
A concept album
Played with an orchestra
Did the official bootleg thing
Did a tour with Iron Maiden
Had stability for the last ten years or so
Played Radio City Music Hall
Played Madison Square Garden
MP got to write his farewell song to his dad
Ok, thats all I could think of of....
But now that the band was actually on a label that gave a damn, they had people taking over various parts of the band. Chaos in Motion was not something Mike planned but went along with it. They finally reached a level of success they had hoped for and now that the band was "comfortable", Mike bailed. There was also an interview from last year in which Mike says he only writes lyrics out of necessity (which I think is BS) and he was hoping to take a step back, further indicating he had said most of what he wanted to say.
Anyway, this all sounded more profound in my head but I think it does indicate another reason why things went they way they did.
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The 12-step stuff too.
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Ah yeah, can't forget that...
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i still dont get the excuses for being burnt out. especially those, put petrucci's name next to all those, except for looking over the dvd's which cant be that hard. and he's still doing fine.
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i still dont get the excuses for being burnt out. especially those, put petrucci's name next to all those, except for looking over the dvd's which cant be that hard. and he's still doing fine.
I don't think he was exhausted from the music. I think he didn't want to hang out with them and make a record...and then tour. I think, after what I've seen recently from him and from JLB that...at very least...the relationship between them was strained at best. How he felt about the remainder I'm not sure, but if it meant shutting down, then obviously, the rest of the band were against it. I was on his site today...and there's some BS on there that he responded to about him "liking" comments others made on some site about JLB...and they aren't a bunch of comments about what a swell guy he is. Like Bill Belichick...I don't MyFace, or Yearbook...but it's on there and it's probably on some social network like that. It's on his site with a comment about how he "didn't say those things."
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MP is a little less guilty than KM. KM left right before the tour, almost royally screwing the band. MP left after the tour.
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Comparing the MP exit with the KM exit is a false equivalence. KevMo left when the band was young and just experiencing its first taste of real success. They still had a ton of goals and a lot to accomplish. And he left after recording a great album.
Now, one can imagine the band has accomplished many of the goals they set for themselves. They know there are more records/tours behind than ahead. Most polls end up filling the top spots from the earlier catalog suggesting the engine is running as much on momentum as inspiration. DT could end tomorrow and be enormously proud of an amazing career built on their own terms and without much in the way of concession. Walking away from that is not comparable to the other. You can make the case the MP exit carries honor in realizing a continuation would probably result in work not up to par.
It seems clear the family had become dysfunctional and it also probably correct that MP bears a greater share of that than any single other member. I just hate all of backbiting coming from the various parties who make themselves look bad. JLB should have just quietly smiled and moved on. A7X reveals they have very little integrity by tossing up their hands as innocents. JM becoming more animated can be excused because everyone forgot he was even there. JP is the only one who has handled the episode with class which is really interesting to me, because in the end I can imagine it came down to a clash of wills between John and Mike. Or Defoe and Berenger... which makes Rudess Charlie Sheen???
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i still dont get the excuses for being burnt out. especially those, put petrucci's name next to all those, except for looking over the dvd's which cant be that hard. and he's still doing fine.
I don't think he was exhausted from the music. I think he didn't want to hang out with them and make a record...and then tour. I think, after what I've seen recently from him and from JLB that...at very least...the relationship between them was strained at best. How he felt about the remainder I'm not sure, but if it meant shutting down, then obviously, the rest of the band were against it. I was on his site today...and there's some BS on there that he responded to about him "liking" comments others made on some site about JLB...and they aren't a bunch of comments about what a swell guy he is. Like Bill Belichick...I don't MyFace, or Yearbook...but it's on there and it's probably on some social network like that. It's on his site with a comment about how he "didn't say those things."
yea i just dont wanna hear the 'i was tired of doing everything excuse'
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i still dont get the excuses for being burnt out. especially those, put petrucci's name next to all those, except for looking over the dvd's which cant be that hard. and he's still doing fine.
I don't think he was exhausted from the music. I think he didn't want to hang out with them and make a record...and then tour. I think, after what I've seen recently from him and from JLB that...at very least...the relationship between them was strained at best. How he felt about the remainder I'm not sure, but if it meant shutting down, then obviously, the rest of the band were against it. I was on his site today...and there's some BS on there that he responded to about him "liking" comments others made on some site about JLB...and they aren't a bunch of comments about what a swell guy he is. Like Bill Belichick...I don't MyFace, or Yearbook...but it's on there and it's probably on some social network like that. It's on his site with a comment about how he "didn't say those things."
yea i just dont wanna hear the 'i was tired of doing everything excuse'
I don't either.
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The only words I want to hear out of Mike Portnoy are "New Transatlantic album" I'm hoping so hard.
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Comparing the MP exit with the KM exit is a false equivalence...
Most of your post is pretty dead on.
A7X reveals they have very little integrity by tossing up their hands as innocents.
But, wait--what?? How do A7X lose any integrity in this scenario?
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JP is the only one who has handled the episode with class which is really interesting to me, because in the end I can imagine it came down to a clash of wills between John and Mike.
I have thought of this as well. JP probably had the backing of the others solely on his side, which made it easier, but ...
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Comparing the MP exit with the KM exit is a false equivalence...
Most of your post is pretty dead on.
A7X reveals they have very little integrity by tossing up their hands as innocents.
But, wait--what?? How do A7X lose any integrity in this scenario?
Yeah, this.
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I'm not understanding all the mocking towards MP. Putting words in his (or anybody's) mouth is not cool. I thought this thread would dissipate off the front page for the antagonizing and negativity. Dragging it on makes no sense. I don't quite get it. Where's the love?
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But, wait--what?? How do A7X lose any integrity in this scenario?
This last interview is just over the top, the atmospheric is to paint MP as a craven wannabe who really wanted to become part of A7X when they had no intention of that. Because we weren't there, we don't know the truth but its far more likely they saw a significant bonus to bringing someone of Portnoy's stature aboard and so it was probably more reciprocal and filled with mixed messages than they are painting it now. To bring up money and psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.
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They brought MP into A7X for the album and the tour because he was the Rev's idol. They certainly weren't prepared to keep him full-time. As far as I'm concerned, everyone except MP has handled the split with class and tact.
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A7X has been nothing but classy. To be honest, when the truth is given straight, I find that more classy than dancing around the truth. When MP left A7X, I liked that M Shadows was honest and said, hey look, MP was too 'press release' happy, we don't do that in A7X. We keep to ourselves and go on. When it comes down to it, MP uses social networking to let his mind loose and basically say what he's feeling. This current period in his life ain't exactly the best time to speak your mind on the internet. I understand how A7X felt.
Another thing that I understand is that A7X didn't want to become: Mike Portnoy and Avenged Sevenfold. Quite frankly, that very well could have happened. I know that once that new A7X track was released earlier this year, I saw a few people on MP's site say: Yeah, since Mike left A7X, I don't listen to/like them anymore. No doubt that some people only started listening to A7X because of MP. If I was in A7X, I certainly wouldn't want to have my band surrounding one member and having his name and then my band name.
Another point too is exactly what skydivingninja just said. A7X wasn't prepared to keep MP full time. They brought him in as a touring member for 2010, I don't think they ever had it in their mind that they wanted him full time. After Jimmy died, they said between themselves that they wanted an up and coming, young drummer to come into the band. They just wanted MP to get them through the beginning of the tour.
Also, the age difference and personality differences.....
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One of the things I've been a little confused about is that A7X seems to indicate that they never hinted or implied
that MP would become a permanent member. But at the time MP did an interview and said they're a band without a
drummer and I'm a drummer without a band...and from a couple other little tidbits I just figured that behind the scenes
MP was led to believe he was going to be a full time member. It's like that sense of security, being in A7X full time
prompted him to make that drastic move. And then the bottom fell out.
But I guess we will never know what was said in private and we just have to take everyone at their word.
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Well you could say that Mike was blinded by his hunger and couldn't tell his days were numbered.
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A7X wasn't prepared to keep MP full time. They brought him in as a touring member for 2010, I don't think they ever had it in their mind that they wanted him full time.
This doesn't wash with me. For one thing, why would the amount of money MP makes come up at all if they never had any intention of offering him a full time role? And with a number one record and huge tour, how is it these guys are complaining about how much they would have to pay a vet? Its likely they didn't understand how to build an artist friendly deal and pay more to managers, agents, lawyers and the label leaving less to the band percentagewise.
More likely is that some of A7X liked the idea of bringing on a seasoned vet and others saw a threat to the path they had created. In that environment, they probably put out mixed signals which MP took too far, too quickly. This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.
MP has been nothing but cool to A7X. He could have been passive aggressive and put out something like "I had a great time with them even though the caliber of technical ability was beneath what I am used to". That would also be telling the truth, but totally unnecessary.
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Well, he was kind of passive aggressive. He tweeted shortly after he left A7X that "The only people you can trust is your family" or something like that. He didn't need to 'tweet' that either
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yea and he redirected fans with tweets 'go back to a7x!!' with go talk to them it wasnt my decision...etc
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Well, he was kind of passive aggressive. He tweeted shortly after he left A7X that "The only people you can trust is your family" or something like that. He didn't need to 'tweet' that either
I know I'm being lame and starting a whole new discussion, but I'm tired of people talking about tweeting and calling it "tweeting" with quotation marks. It's like if I was talking about how Jordan Rudess likes to play a "keytar" on stage because I want to refer to them in a derisive way.* Tweeting is the proper name for the activity. Why inject other stuff into it?
*I think keytars are kinda cool actually. I just wanted an example that worked in context.
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:lol
I'm sorry. I just hate saying tweeting, it just sounds stupid to me, so I put it in quotation marks. Same as saying lol. I don't feel right saying it, so I put it in quotation marks when I use it. Sorry
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Yeah, I'll second Systematic on not being a fan of twitter lingo. Think it's really corny. I do say "retweet" as there isn't really a regular-English equivalent, but I'll usually use "said on twitter" or "posted" rather than "tweeted." I do get how insistently putting "tweeted" into inverted commas makes it look a bit sneery... but, I figure that's kind of the point. :p
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Yeah, I'll second Systematic on not being a fan of twitter lingo. Think it's really corny. I do say "retweet" as there isn't really a regular-English equivalent, but I'll usually use "said on twitter" or "posted" rather than "tweeted." I do get how insistently putting "tweeted" into inverted commas makes it look a bit sneery... but, I figure that's kind of the point. :p
It filters into other languages as well. Retweeter is a widely used french verb now. Such ballbag.
Well you could say that Mike was blinded by his hunger and couldn't tell his days were numbered.
Nuggetz
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Well, he was kind of passive aggressive. He tweeted shortly after he left A7X that "The only people you can trust is your family" or something like that. He didn't need to 'tweet' that either
I know I'm being lame and starting a whole new discussion, but I'm tired of people talking about tweeting and calling it "tweeting" with quotation marks. It's like if I was talking about how Jordan Rudess likes to play a "keytar" on stage because I want to refer to them in a derisive way.* Tweeting is the proper name for the activity. Why inject other stuff into it?
*I think keytars are kinda cool actually. I just wanted an example that worked in context.
Keytars are cool, as was your "use" of it.
;D
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I think Avenged Sevenfold was probably totally honest with Mike Portnoy. I don't think they misled him into believing it would be a permanent position. The band had been together for so long and there was a lot of grief still there from Jimmy's death. I have seem M Shadows in many interviews and he seems like a very honest person and he doesn't care what people think about him - he just wants to make music and be true to himself. Jimmy contributed to a lot of the writing on Nightmare and even though Mike is a great musician, his writing style might not be what they wanted. And since the rest of the band is so close, it was probably really hard to not be considered an outsider. After Jimmy died, A7X released a message that they would complete Nightmare, because that is what Jimmy wanted, but they didn't know what they would do after that. It wasn't even clear that they would stay together.
Mike took a risk at what seemed like a great career opportunity, which was probably a good decision, but I think he knew the risks when he took the job.
If you quit your job where you have worked for years to take a higher paying job, you know that you are in danger of losing that job as the most junior member. It has happened to a lot of people.
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...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.
This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.
They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact. That's call slander. Knock it off immediately.
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...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.
This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.
They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact. That's call slander. Knock it off immediately.
"I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD. But we weren't ready to have a new member."
I'm pretty sure the truth is an absolute defense to slander/defamation charges but this line pretty much reiterates what I said.
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Whats with all the people getting into small arguments with bosk recently?
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Why can't a man defend himself when accusations are brought up against him?
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...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.
This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.
They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact. That's call slander. Knock it off immediately.
"I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD. But we weren't ready to have a new member."
I'm pretty sure the truth is an absolute defense to slander/defamation charges but this line pretty much reiterates what I said.
Don't think that backs up what you said.
To take this logic to an extreme: Let's say, hypothetically, that I want to replace James as DT's singer. Of course, Dream Theater isn't ready to fire the voice of their band for a random 21-year-old with average vocal skills.
So, in this hypothetical, DT could come out and say "TPOF clearly wanted to become our new singer, but we weren't ready to fire James for him." Absolutely true, but that doesn't mean I did anything wrong, assumed a "rock star" persona, tried to "elbow my way in" etc. Just means I had a pie-in-the-sky desire, and nothing more.
The error here is that you're taking a factual statement and assigning plausible but stretched negative connotations to it. That's a pretty slippery slope.
But...I'll get out of the way of the mods.
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But it's a music forum that none of the aforementioned parties will see nor give two shits about the opinions of. Who cares?
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But it's a music forum that none of the aforementioned parties will see nor give two shits about the opinions of. Who cares?
The most beautiful words you have ever uttered upon this forum.
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...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.
This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.
They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact. That's call slander. Knock it off immediately.
"I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD. But we weren't ready to have a new member."
I'm pretty sure the truth is an absolute defense to slander/defamation charges but this line pretty much reiterates what I said.
Yes, they said that his intentions were pretty clear. They didn't psychoanalyse, they didn't say a thing about immaturity, and they didn't say a thing about being a big rock star trying to elbow his way in. You've taken a very simple statement and extrapolated a load of made-up nonsense from it. That's what bosk was referring to.
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But it's a music forum that none of the aforementioned parties will see nor give two shits about the opinions of. Who cares?
With respect, where does any of this come from?
Very dangerous to presume you're in a vacuum. James LaBrie, for one, definitely reads this board. He's cryptically pointed it out on Twitter as many times. And that's... kind of obvious, when you think about it. If someone set up a website called "Orcus116 Forums," and it became the biggest dedicated Orcus116 website on the internet, I'd defy you not to read it. It's interesting.
Not to mention, Mike Portnoy is definitely a man who deeply cares about his public perception, and is known to be net-savvy. Yes, I'm pretty sure that'd include a website that's dedicated to a band he spent a quarter of a century leading from the front. He might try to limit it, but Mike Portnoy's idea of an extended break from the internet seems to last about two weeks. The odd poke around is almost inevitable.
I suppose what I'm saying is, if what someone's saying is so rude that they need to rationalise that the person they're discussing will probably never read it, they should probably think twice about publishing it as a matter of public record on an online compendium of quotes about that person's career. Or! Just accept that you don't really care whether they read it or not. Whichever's easiest. But I wouldn't bother rationalising "oh it's probably fine."
Er, this presuming the "two parties" are Mike Portnoy and Avenged Sevenfold. If not, then I definitely lost track of the conversation about a page ago.
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More likely is that some of A7X liked the idea of bringing on a seasoned vet and others saw a threat to the path they had created. In that environment, they probably put out mixed signals which MP took too far, too quickly. This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.
All of this is pure speculation.
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Yeah, that scenario sounds very sketchy, and too anti-A7X tbh.
In my one-line summary, essentially 90% of how this all went down was MP's doing. He massively misjudged his situation in both A7X and DT, partly because he had lost touch with them. When he then tried a rather gutsy move, both A7X and DT recoiled and put themselves at distance with him. He's not the first, and won't be the last, leader that has happened to.
rumborak
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Yeah, that scenario sounds very sketchy, and too anti-A7X tbh.
In my one-line summary, essentially 90% of how this all went down was MP's doing. He massively misjudged his situation in both A7X and DT, partly because he had lost touch with them. When he then tried a rather gutsy move, both A7X and DT recoiled and put themselves at distance with him. He's not the first, and won't be the last, leader that has happened to.
rumborak
I quote this post merely as an example of the "right" way to go about posting on the subject without exaggerating and reading in a lot of extra fiction as Faustusmedea, for example, has done with his posts.
Carry on.
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Regarding A7X, I was actually very surprised at how even-keeled their responses have been. I can also completely understand their decision. They are a fairly new band which had a major shakeup (Rev's death) and who were trying to generate positive, forward-looking momentum. The last thing they needed was being dragged into a drama generated by a temp drummer. I'm also pretty convinced that A7X would have extended MP's contract until the rest of the tour hadn't it been for the DT drama. They needed to get rid of MP, and the conclusion of the initial contract was the perfect opportunity since then they didn't need to say the real reasons. MP used the "regular contract conclusion" argument, but other that Eddie Trunk and a few others nobody bought that.
rumborak
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Portnoy is so drama, he's like a one man episode of Jersey Shore :corn
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Portnoy is so drama, he's like a one man episode of Jersey Shore :corn
+1
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That will be quite enough of that. Both of you, consider yourselves warned.