DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: wolfking on February 10, 2011, 03:44:21 AM
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Can't wait for this.
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=153673
Los Angeles-based progressive metal band REDEMPTION, which features in its ranks vocalist Ray Alder of FATES WARNING, has set "This Mortal Coil" as the title of its fifth album, tentatively due in the fall. The CD will be produced by Neil Kernon, who has previously worked with such acts as NEVERMORE, NILE, QUEENSRŸCHE and DEICIDE, and will feature the following working songtitles, among others: "Noonday Devil", "No Tickets To The Funeral", "Rain In My Soul", "Focus", "Dreams From The Pit", "Path Of The Tornado", "Blink Of An Eye", "Perfect" and "Departure Of The Pale Horse".
Commented guitarist/songwriter Nicolas van Dyk: "The band was really happy with 'Snowfall On Judgment Day' and so when it came time to put together new material, with our own expectations for ourselves always on the rise, we gave a lot of thought to how to deliver the goods and step up our game yet again.
"We have worked well with some excellent producers in the past and they have put their mark on our sound, especially Tommy Newton, with whom we did two records and who we tried to involve early enough in the production process to help shape the records. But even with Tommy, most of the involvement came after we were finished with songs.
"For this record, I thought we could bring in an outside producer very early on. Someone to help shape the music and raise the bar for us, challenging our ideas and getting the best from the band. I knew I wanted somebody with a depth of experience that reflected the many things REDEMPTION pursues in its music: melodic but heavy; intricate and complex when called for, but accessible; a bit of virtuosity but always in the service of the song. This is a tall order, when you think about it. We would need a producer, ideally, who had extensive experience in pop music but also maybe jazz fusion, had worked with somebody like KANSAS, had worked with somebody like NEVERMORE, had extensive experience in heavy technical music (like, say, SPIRAL ARCHITECT or even somebody like NILE) and hopefully also had particular domain expertise in prog metal (maybe someone like QUEENSRŸCHE).
"Fortunately, such a producer exists! I am delighted to announce that we will be working on 'This Mortal Coil' with Neil Kernon, whose extensive CV includes all of those bands. He has immense experience in song craft, creating compelling intricate music across a variety of genres. It's a great fit for what we are looking for right now. He is, simply put, a legendary producer and we are really fired up to work with him.
"Neil and I have known each other socially for several years, and actually about three years ago he called me and asked if REDEMPTION would be interested in creating a ''Rage For Order' for the next century.' Uh, YES, we would! However, at that time, we were already down the road with 'Snowfall On Judgment Day' so I explained that we would have to table the conversation until the next record.
"So when the time came to consider how to make sure our next CD is our best (a goal we will always have!) I thought immediately back to that conversation. And as Neil and I spoke about the possibilities, it became obvious to us both that this could be a very special opportunity to make a really great CD. So we are really going to dig into pre-production together beginning just a few weeks from now and needless to say, I'm really looking forward to it!
"I've been working on the basic structure of the songs for a couple of months now, and the band is very pleased with how things are coming together. We are taking more time to explore different drum parts than we have done before, and working out bass and drum parts together in a more organic way than we have had the luxury of doing in the past.
"So the songs are in a bit of flux now, but at this point it looks like we will have ten or eleven tracks, with a fair amount of compositional diversity between them but all having the strong melody, the aggressive riffing and the sense of emotional and musical urgency that we hope is core to all of REDEMPTION's music.
"This is not a rock opera but the songs are tied together, loosely, by the theme of confronting our mortality. You can imagine, given my medical adventure, that what I experienced would make its way into my songwriting.
"After pre-production, we'll get to tracking and mixing and all that good stuff. We are shooting for a fall release date, assuming all goes well. We're also planning some pretty extensive and cool bonus materials, which will be fun to do and which we think our fans will really enjoy. We also have some tentative plans right now to play out a bit more extensively than we did on the last CD in support of the record."
:metal :metal :metal
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:metal
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This is AWESOME news. Glad to see Nic, Ray and the boys back at it again. :2metal:
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Well, I'm glad a new album is on its way.
A Rage For Order for the next century? That actully scares me.
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Well, I'm glad a new album is on its way.
A Rage For Order for the next century? That actully scares me.
Does this mean, we can expect sequinced jackets and hairspray with the promo pictures ?
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Rage For Order is absolute win.
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:metal :metal :metal :metal
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So...
Dream Theater
Neal Morse
Thrice
Rush
Redemption
Nightwish
Eisley
all with new albums. 2011 FTW
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Oh my God YES
:metal :metal :metal
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HELL, YEAH!!!! I can't get enough of Redemption!! I'm just bummed I discovered them so late in the game (not until they opened for DT in Dallas a few years ago).
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:metal :gadough: :metal
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So...
Dream Theater
Neal Morse
Thrice
Rush
Redemption
Nightwish
Eisley
all with new albums. 2011 FTW
I KNOW! THAT'S FOUR AWESOME ALBUMS!
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Learn to count Bosk, there are clearly 5 awesome albums.
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There are so many awesome things going on in this news release...
I am excite.
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So...
Dream Theater
Neal Morse
Thrice
Rush
Redemption
Nightwish
Eisley
all with new albums. 2011 FTW
I KNOW! THAT'S FOUR AWESOME ALBUMS!
Eisley
Rush
Thrice
and ?
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:metal
good news!
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I'm really psyched. Interestingly, when I googled "This Mortal Coil" it appears to be the name of a 1980s pop synth band? That's odd. Regardless, everything Nick van Dyk touches turns to gold. I am confident the music and lyrics of this new album will be incredible.
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Shweet! :metal Can't wait to hear this album, I love this band.
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HI folks!
Thanks for the (mostly) positive reception. :)
Three comments:
1. No sequined jackets or poofy hair is envisioned.
2. This Mortal Coil is Shakespeare, not Carcass and not anybody else. I only stole from the original source. :)
3. We will, in fact, be one of the good albums this year! :P
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Nice. Can't wait and hope to see them live sometime, if they even stop by New Mex.
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HI folks!
Thanks for the (mostly) positive reception. :)
Three comments:
1. No sequined jackets or poofy hair is envisioned.
2. This Mortal Coil is Shakespeare, not Carcass and not anybody else. I only stole from the original source. :)
3. We will, in fact, be one of the good albums this year! :P
:lol That's awesome
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2. This Mortal Coil is Shakespeare, not Carcass and not anybody else. I only stole from the original source. :)
This website will love you if you cite that in the liner notes.
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2. This Mortal Coil is Shakespeare, not Carcass and not anybody else. I only stole from the original source. :)
:rollin
I can't decide if this is funnier if you have or if you haven't seen the thread accusing Petrucci of plagiarism.
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Had not heard about allegations of JP plagiarism. I don't visit here as much as I should.
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Visit more, Nick. You're awesome! Say, have you heard of............ KrotchRaut? :D
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Can't wait to hear this. Snowfall was incredible, and another album on that level would be quite a treat.
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Reading Nick's interview again, this is really exciting, Nick gives us a great vibe regarding the whole process. Snowfall was the best cd of 2009, and This Mortal Coil very well could have the same potential.
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Visit more, Nick. You're awesome! Say, have you heard of............ KrotchRaut? :D
I'm fighting off the strong urge just to ban you now. Don't scare off the guests! :p
Reading Nick's interview again, this is really exciting, Nick gives us a great vibe regarding the whole process. Snowfall was the best cd of 2009, and This Mortal Coil very well could have the same potential.
For anyone who wants to read, the interview from www.wpapu.com is being printed below.
Nic Van Dyk of Redemption
Interview conducted: April/May 2009
Interview posted: May 1st, 2009
Official Redemption Page (https://www.redemptionweb.com/)
Since 2002 the band Redemption has sent waves through the progressive metal community. With three studio albums under their belt Redemption has just released their first ever live set, Frozen in the Moment: Live in Atlanta, a CD/DVD package set released March 3rd via InsideOut Records. The show was filmed during Redemption’s headline appearance at 2008’s ProgPower Festival. When Prog and Power Unite is privileged to have a few words with the band’s mastermind, Nic Van Dyk, with additional questions being submitted by you, the fans.
PPU: First of all, thank you for agreeing to do this interview. Let’s start with something easy and general… what has personally been the best part of heading Redemption?
NVD: Honestly, the experience of touring with Dream Theater, playing on big stages to thousands of people, was pretty surreal and a real milestone in terms of what Redemption has accomplished thus far.
PPU: What would you say was the definitive artist, concert, or musical experience that really inspired you to pursue music as a career?
NVD: The defining moment to learn guitar came from hearing Gary Moore’s solo from Shapes of Things to Come. The defining experience that led me to actually release music came much later, and was basically the night I met Ray Alder. Becoming friends and ultimately sharing my music with him gave me confidence and credibility to attract other musicians and label interest.
PPU: If you had the opportunity to join any band, at any point in their career, what band would it be and when?
NVD: I would say Rush, probably on their Test for Echo tour. Not so much because of that CD, but because that’s what they started doing “evening with” shows where they play for 150 minutes. Performing live is a huge rush (no pun intended). From a studio standpoint, probably either Iron Maiden circa Piece of Mind or Rush circa Moving Pictures.
PPU: As a huge fan of Rush myself I can really appreciate what you’re saying about the switch to the evening with format. But the pendulum swings both ways I suppose, as of not too long ago a band like Redemption would not have had the chance to open for Dream Theater as they were doing evening with tours up until the Chaos in Motion Tour. I’ve been able to talk with Redemption’s bassist Sean Andrews on a couple of occasions and I know he is a big Rush fan as well, is this a common influence throughout the band, or just for the two of you? And are there really any bands that a big group of musicians like Redemption can generally agree upon?
NVD: Sean, Chris and I are ravenous fans. Chris knows, I am pretty sure, their entire catalog. Sean knows a lot of it, too. At rehearsals, they would always just start fooling around playing stuff like Digital Man, flawlessly, of course, and I could never keep up unless they played one of the 10 or so songs that I have committed to memory. Greg, Bernie and Ray are fans as well, but probably not as over the top as Sean, Chris and I are. When we were in Toronto on tour with DT, we broke into YYZ in the middle of Bleed Me Dry. It was just too tempting not to – here we were, in Toronto, playing on Rush’s hometown stage where they had played a month before us, and there’s a little break in the song where I normally played two bars of Spirit of Radio before resuming the rest of the track. So the night before we decided to do the intro to YYZ there instead and the crowd response was amazing. This is captured in some of the bonus materials on the DVD.
PPU: What group of bands would you most like to tour with? (Aaron, Texas)
NVD: The Dream Theater guys were fantastic to us. We had a lot of fun with Into Eternity as well – great guys. I’d love to go out with DT again. I think it would be fun to play with Symphony X as well. Threshold is another band that would be musically compatible and it would be a lot of fun to try to do some shows together with them – I think the fanbase would be very complementary. We’re friends with Evergrey and it would be fun to play with them. Kamelot, also, seems like a good match. At the next level, opening for somebody like Rush or Iron Maiden or Heaven & Hell is something that would be a dream, of course.
PPU: I first saw Redemption live during the Chaos in Motion tour in 2007. How was your overall experience in regards to touring with Dream Theater? (Chris, Maryland)
NVD: 100% positive experience. They were very good to us, and their crew and management was fantastic. We got along very well, had a lot of fun, and got great exposure. I really hope we have the opportunity to do it again sometime!
PPU: I (Nick) was at the final three shows on the tour you did with Dream Theater, and I have to ask about that final show in Philadelphia. For those who don’t know, you guys all dressed up as giant ants, which of course was a play on Dream Theater’s artwork, and then I believe Ray Alder chased you guys around stage during Dream Theater’s The Dark Eternal Night dressed as a can of Raid. Who came up with the idea for this shenanigan, and was there any fun happening behind the scenes that we don’t see in the bonus footage of Frozen in the Moment?
NVD: Well I have to give Ray credit for the inspiration, but I will take credit for the perspiration. Ray mentioned off-handedly about midway through the tour that it would be funny if we all ran onstage in ant suits. I don’t think he thought anything would come of it, but I had this vision, including one of us dressed up as a can of raid chasing the rest of us around. I cleared this with DT’s stage manager, of course, because we wouldn’t do something like that without clearance. Then Bernie and I went shopping. I spent most of the day making the outfits…ultimately there were four ants (me, Ray, our tour manager Mike and Bernie) and our keyboard player Greg was the can of raid. I spray-painted a trash can yellow and wrote “Raid” on the side and then got a red lampshade that looks like the spray-button for him to wear on his head. We had a blast – it was fun as hell. Mike laughed, I even saw the implacable John Myung crack a smile. John was too focused on his guitar playing to notice. Jordan did a double-take. All in all, it was in good taste and everybody thought it was fun. Most of this is captured pretty well on the DVD.
PPU: Which do you find more rewarding, writing the music or the lyrics? (Alex, Pennsylvania)
NVD: Generally speaking, I enjoy music more than lyrics. Of course at their best, the two are related, with the music complementing the meaning of the lyrics and vice versa, but I can get the emotion from the music more readily than just the words. I’m also a perfectionist and while I constantly find things I would change about both, there’s usually less that I want to change about the music than the lyrics.
PPU: Do you generally build a song around a lyrical theme or concept or start with music and basically build from the ground up?
NVD: It can vary. To take two opposite examples from our last CD, The Origins of Ruin, the intro guitar part to the song Fall On You is something I wrote sitting down with an acoustic. I remember hearing the melody line and coming up with the one vocal line “run faster now, don’t look back till you’re far away” but the rest of the song was written before any other words. Conversely, the song Memory came together in snippets but I vividly remember being on a golf course, by myself, when the melody and words “I don’t want the emptiness that a spotless mind would bring” came into my head, and I wrote chords to support that melody line. So it’s a little of both – the music probably comes first most of the time, though.
PPU: Do you usually write out guitar solos in advance or just improvise them when you record?
NVD: A little of both. Typically I’ll hear something in my head that will fit as a signature motif in the solo, and I’ll either begin from there or write something up to it depending on where it falls in the solo. Usually I’ll combine spontaneous performance with writing, or I’ll play something spontaneous and then modify if it it’s not quite on the mark. I’m always mindful of something that Dave Meniketti from Y&T once said: a solo should have a memorable beginning, and memorable end, and something to chew on in the middle.
PPU: How often do you spend critiquing your music and particularly lyrics? Do you consider yourself a perfectionist when it comes to your music?
NVD: As I intimated above, I spend a LOT of time doing this – more than is healthy, probably. When I hear our music I think of what I’d change, whether compositionally, lyrically, production-wise, etc. Thankfully there is less and less as time goes on, which hopefully is indicative of improvement as a songwriter.
PPU: As someone who's never heard your music, where would you personally recommend I start, and why would that be your pick? (Matt, Wisconsin)
NVD: I would start with our most recent CD, The Origins of Ruin, and if a song had to be picked I would probably choose Fall On You, because it runs the gamut from some of the more technical stuff, some of the more aggressive stuff, but also some of the more melodic stuff we do. It’s hard to pigeonhole a single song. The common theme in our music is what I would call emotional and musical urgency. That can be conveyed a number of ways – sometimes it comes across more aggressively, other times less so. So any single song can be misleading. Unless, of course, you want to devote 16 minutes.
PPU: What is behind the lyrics and inspiration for the song Sapphire? (Bill, NJ)
NVD: At its most basic level, Sapphire is about a painful end to a relationship, one without closure, and being doomed to wonder what might have been. It’s an aggressive, sweeping progressive metal love song, I suppose.
PPU: Is the song "The Fullness of Time" based on a personal experience you had or that someone you know experienced?
NVD: Sorry to say, it’s something I experienced first-hand. I was betrayed by a friend, and I went through feelings of tremendous rage, disappointment, and self-doubt before ultimately moving on. Frankly I’m still pretty heated about it so maybe I’ve got a bit more growing to do. J
PPU: What was it about Stephen King's "Desperation" that inspired you to write a song about it?
NVD: It’s funny; I’m not the world’s biggest Stephen King fan. But I do think in those instances where he tackles a “big” subject, as he did in this novel or in The Stand, and he gets it right, it’s pretty compelling fiction. In the case of Desperation, the novel is really an examination of faith, and my sense is it is at least somewhat autobiographical as he wrote this after a near-death experience and the transformative character in the story is a writer who has been tortured for years by self-loathing and he ultimately embraces faith – not a simple-minded faith or a blind faith, but a reluctant one that accepts the ugliness and difficulties and irrationalism of faith without apology. It’s a beautiful story from that perspective and, I feel, quite moving. Of course now I don’t plan on adapting any third-party stories for more songs and I think that whole process is a little sophomoric, but I’m at least proud of the source material I used both for that piece and for Something Wicked This Way Comes.
PPU: When people familiar with the music of Redemption watch Frozen in the Moment for the first time, what do you think they will be most impressed by? What aspects to seeing Redemption live do you think are special in general?
NVD: That’s a good question. I think Redemption is a special band because while there is good playing, we aren’t about virtuosity – people either connect with the emotions our music stirs or they do not. I think, in all modesty, we’re pretty tight and there are some very cool technical sections (the end of The Suffocating Silence is one part, the pre-solo technical section in Sapphire which is pretty nuts is another, etc) that are fun to watch. Our drummer, Chris, is a lot of fun to watch. And our keyboard player really gets into it, too. All in all, it’s a fun DVD to watch.
PPU: Are there any particular moments from the Frozen in the Moment show of which you enjoyed? Any certain songs that you always love to play?
NVD: I love the beginning of our shows…the rush of hitting those first notes in Threads was one of the special moments for me on that tour. I also really like The Suffocating Silence. We play it very up-tempo and heavy, and the technical section at the end is a blast to play.
PPU: Can you briefly explain to me what it was like recording Frozen in the Moment, and what went into taking that performance and making it into the product that will be in my DVD player very soon!
NVD: It was a great set of circumstances. We’re part of the ProgPower family, as I’ve been a friend of the organizer from the very first one and we’ve performed there before, albeit as a much less experienced band. We had the advantage of the tour with DT to work ourselves into shape, and we were going to be playing to a “home crowd” of sorts – they didn’t come just to see us but we fit into the bill pretty well. The setup there, from the cameras to the audio, is totally professional – the promoter does an amazing job. And he had been putting out DVDs of the performance for a number of years so it was a matter of negotiating a deal with him to get our own film, and making sure we got the audio as well. From there, it was a matter of showing up and feeding off the crowd. We had a blast with that performance. The finished product is very true to the actual performance – no overdubs or re-tracking or stuff like that. I think it adds a human touch to it – we’re pretty tight, but you can tell it’s an authentic performance.
The process of editing the video was a lot of work. I did it myself using Final Cut and it wound up taking a very long time, but I think it was worth the effort. Putting together the bonus materials was a labor of love, but we had so much good material and so many memories from the DT tour that I wanted to preserve that I knew we had to do something pretty special with it, and I think the bonus materials are really, really cool. I’m very happy with the quality of the audio, and I have to credit Matt Crooks for mixing and Ty Tabor for mastering. The package turned out great from my perspective.
PPU: I believe Redemption is currently working on a new studio album, how is that coming along?
NVD: As I type this, we are almost finished mixing and will be turning the master over to Inside Out in a couple of weeks. Hopefully the CD will be out late summer.
PPU: Is the forthcoming album going to be generally in the vein of the previous two albums or will it show more experimenting in new territory?
NVD: The materials are a little more varied than the last CD, although people won’t be scratching their head wondering what happened to Redemption. Expect very heavy prog metal with big choruses and a balance between technicality and economic songwriting. We do some heavier stuff than we’ve done before, and we have some more sweeping prog stuff as well. I think our fans will really enjoy it – we’ve had a lot of fun recording it.
PPU: What is the probability that Redemption will do any form of headlining touring here in the States on the next album?
NVD: I think a major headlining tour is probably not in the cards – we aren’t big enough yet. J I think we will play some shows, though, and I’d love to team up with some other prog bands, or obviously if we got another opening slot that will expose us like the DT tour did, that’s something we’d jump at.
Links:
Official Site: https://www.redemptionweb.com/
Myspace: https://www.myspace.com/thebandredemption
InsideOut Records: www.insideout.de
Redemption Is:
Ray Alder - Vocals
Nicolas van Dyk - Guitars and Keyboards
Bernie Versailles - Guitars
Sean Andrews - Bass
Chris Quirarte - Drums
Greg Hosharian – Keyboards
Update on Redemption’s 4th Studio Album:
Hello folks. Been a while since an update...hopefully for those interested the DVD has been a good means of tiding you over, but we will have new music out in the next few months and I can share some details at this time.
Redemption's fourth CD, Snowfall on Judgment Day, is expected to be released this summer worldwide through Inside Out. The album is currently being mixed and mastered by our good and talented friend Tommy Newton, who produced our last two CDs and whose work also includes Conception, Helloween, UFO and others, at Area 51 Studios in Celle, Germany. Artwork will once again be by our creative visual partner Travis Smith.
Musically, we have continued to grow and expand on the basic Redemption formula. We have continued to push the envelope of heaviness combined with strong melody and emotional urgency in the music and I think the collection of songs is very strong, with some very in-your-face tunes that are among the heaviest in prog metal to some quieter, more elaborate moments, with technical thrown in where it belongs.
The tentative track listing is:
Peel
Walls
Leviathan Rising
Black and White World
Unformed
Keep Breathing
Another Day Dies
What Will You Say
Fistful of Sand
Love Kills Us All / Life in One Day
I am particular excited to report that Another Day Dies is a duet between Ray Alder and a very special guest vocalist, James LaBrie of Dream Theater!
Once a firm release date is set, I'll provide another update. We're really looking forward to getting new music in your hands.
Thanks again for your interest and support!
Nick van Dyk, Redemption
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Wait, a Rage for Order of the new century? For a band that wants to set the bar higher for themselves they need to think of making a Mindcrime for the new century. ;D Actually, if they did make an album on the same tier as Mindcrime I will be very very happy.
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While I think Mindcrime is a marginally better album I'd say that Rage For Order was far and away a more cutting edge album, and I think that's a fine goal to shoot for.
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Count me in as a big fan of Frozen In The Moment. Redemption is a prog-metal band that can get a great groove going, and that really comes through in the DVD.
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Well, I'm glad a new album is on its way.
A Rage For Order for the next century? That actully scares me.
The funny thing is...that's what Queensryche is calling their upcoming new album.
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Yeah, but we all know Redemption might actually deliver on it.
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Lol Here we go...
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Nick only said what everybody was thinking.
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Well, I'm glad a new album is on its way.
A Rage For Order for the next century? That actully scares me.
The funny thing is...that's what Queensryche is calling their upcoming new album.
Yeah, but we all know Redemption might actually deliver on it.
This.
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Am I the only one on this forum that liked American Soldier and O:M ll ? They do seem to be getting their stride back. I am scared though after reading Rockenfield's description of their new album. Hope they don't screw it up...the cabaret thing was too much...
Anyway, I look forward to Redemption's new album as well as the new Ryche. Hope they're both great albums. Guess I'm just a glass is half full kind of guy. :)
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Both albums have good moments. But both suffer from the fact that they aren't band efforts. They were written by outside writers with input from Geoff Tate on how he wanted the albums to sound. With OMII, you got half an album that was solid, but then fell completely flat due to mellowdrama, poor writing (J, if you're reading this, I don't blame you at all), and a poor concept.
AS was, instrumentally, pretty solid. It had a few moments that fell flat, and some of the artistic things Tate tried didn't really work, IMO. Slater did a pretty good job this time around of really tapping into the QR vibe. But the poor vocals absolutely kill it. A vocalist like Tate cannot put out albums where the vocals sound like he rolled out of bed, did them in one take, and said "yup, that's a wrap!" He has now done that on two consecutive albums, and it lowers the overall quality considerably.
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I liked O:M II until the last 5 or so tracks which blew, and I really enjoyed American Soldier, but in any case Ryche are not a band that are going to release anything revolutionary anytime soon.
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Funny, I like the second half of O:M ll better than the first half. It's always a trip how we hear things differently.
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I thought 95% of OMII was utter shit and I had only heard maybe two of their albums when I listened to it.
AS is about half good, but it's all mid-tempo that I just kinda get bored about halfway through.
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I thought 95% of OMII was utter shit and I had only heard maybe two of their albums when I listened to it.
AS is about half good, but it's all mid-tempo that I just kinda get bored about halfway through.
Tell us how you really feel. ;)
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How much time do you have? :D
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Probably not near enough. lol
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REDEMPTION, the US progressive metal band featuring in its ranks guitarist/songwriter Nick van Dyk and legendary Fates Warning vocalist Ray Alder, proudly announces that their newest, 5th studio album release and follow-up to the highly successful “Snowfall On Judgment Day” in 2009, will be entitled “This Mortal Coil” and is to be released on September 26th, 2011 in Europe and October 11th, 2011 in North America via InsideOutMusic.
REDEMPTION recorded and mixed “This Mortal Coil” with legendary producer Neil Kernon (Queensryche, Nevermore, Kansas, etc.). The album's artwork, which makes its first appearance with this press release, was created by acclaimed artist and longtime band collaborator Travis Smith
(Opeth, Avenged Sevenfold, Nevermore, etc).
REDEMPTION’s Nick van Dyk checked in commenting on the album as follows:
“
I'm extremely pleased to announce that work on ‘This Mortal Coil’ has been completed.
It was a pleasure to work with Neil Kernon during the production, although I dare say we had more challenges and curve-balls in this process than either of us is accustomed to. Nonetheless we overcame everything in our path, from internet failures to lightning strikes, and since one of the themes of this CD is essentially overcoming adversity, the production process served as a bit of a metaphor for the whole concept!"
"The new CD continues our creative effort to combine heaviness with melody -- fusing those disparate elements has always been part of REDEMPTION's sound, along with an element that I have called emotional urgency, which we've maintained here. All in all, it sounds like REDEMPTION -- although importantly I think it's by far our best-sounding record, owing to the work of Neil Kernon and the mastering of Alan Douches."
And Van Dyk adds regarding the artwork:
We have worked once again with the incredibly talented Travis Smith on our art; we work very well together and he has a proven knack for bringing my concepts to life visually."
Most recently, REDEMPTION have announced a string of European concerts to support the release of “This Mortal Coil” in early October 2011, including a headlining slot at this year's edition of the “ProgPower Europe” festival.
REDEMPTION Live in Europe 2011:
1. Oct - London, UK, The Underworld
2. Oct - Baarlo, The Netherlands, Progpower Europe
4. Oct - Pratteln, Switzerland, Galery Music Bar/Z-7
5. Oct - Fontaneto D’Agogna / Novara, Italy, Phenomenon Club
7. Oct - Essen, Germany, Turock
8. Oct - Copenhagen, Denmark, Denmark Rock Festival
Direct support act on these shows will come from the Italian proggers KINGCROW.
(https://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/283900_257926170900520_177211978971940_1076232_8175745_n.jpg)
:metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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Great artwork, I dig it.
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September is going to be beyond awesome now.
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September needs to be changed to the 'I'm Broke As Fuck Now Month.'
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Do want.
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Amazing! Can't wait. :metal
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September needs to be changed to the 'I'm Broke As Fuck Now Month.'
Forreal.
Opeth, Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Redemption...bye bye money.
Edit: Oh, it's being released in October here in the states...whatever.
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September needs to be changed to the 'I'm Broke As Fuck Now Month.'
Forreal.
Opeth, Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Redemption...bye bye money.
... Haken, 3, Anathema, Thrice, steven wilson. FUck
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September needs to be changed to the 'I'm Broke As Fuck Now Month.'
Forreal.
Opeth, Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Redemption...bye bye money.
... Haken, 3, Anathema, Thrice, steven wilson. FUck
and Arch/Matheos. :metal
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I'm loving that cover. The weird thing about Redemption is that each new album has been better than the one that preceded it, and I'm hoping the trend continues here. Well, The Fullness Of Time has a bit of an edge on The Origins Of Ruin, but still...
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Wait, Elsydeon, 3 is coming out with a new album in September? :caffeine:
Anyways, this is cool news. Redemption's last album had a lot of solid stuff, and I enjoy listening to them from time to time. Haven't done so in a while though.
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awesome!!!!
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Wait, Elsydeon, 3 is coming out with a new album in September? :caffeine:
Anyways, this is cool news. Redemption's last album had a lot of solid stuff, and I enjoy listening to them from time to time. Haven't done so in a while though.
September 20 I believe.
https://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=66992
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Cool stuff! Their music is very interesting, nothing groundbreaking, but enjoyable.
September is my birthday month, luckily.
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Fuck yes September! So glad I am getting my school money that month. :metal
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Nic van Dyk is a freakin amazing songwriter and I can't wait to hear what this album has in store. Nice cover art!
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This is the best news I've heard today!!! Each album has gotten better and better :metal. Snowfall On Judgment Day is one of the most incredible albums I've ever heard. Just amazing.
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Is it October 11 yet? :\
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If it is, I'm in worse trouble on this deadline I'm working on than I originally thought.
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Sometime in September I'll be interviewing Nick, very much looking forward to it!
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Sometime in September I'll be interviewing Nick, very much looking forward to it!
Pssh, just because you have a radio show doesn't mean you're some superstar that can talk in the third person. And interviewing yourself? Fucking Narcissist.
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So Nick, what questions will you ask yourself? :neverusethis:
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Things along the line of, "Why the hell do you put up with those people?" :p
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Seriously though, that's too cool. interviews I've read and seen of him, he seems like a super cool guy. Also, it's good to see he has his disease somewhat under control too.
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Got the album today, can't wait till tonight when I'm able to listen! :D
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Got the album today, can't wait till tonight when I'm able to listen! :D
You SSSSUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKK! :loser:
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I shall do a spiffy review for you. :D
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>:(IIIIIIIII HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE YOURRRRRR FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCE)
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I shall do a spiffy review for you. :D
Nice. Can't wait to hear how it stacks up to Snowfall.
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I shall do a spiffy review for you. :D
In this thread or in the reviews section?
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Nick, if you don't rip it and send it to me, I'll...
be very sad, until I can think of a threat I can follow up on.
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LOL for a second I thought this was a thread about This Mortal Coil (https://www.last.fm/music/This+Mortal+Coil) and I was like :ooo WTFNOWAY!!
Haha.
Carry on.
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Nick, did you get the single album, or the double with the 6 cover tracks?
GGGGGGGGODDDDDDDDD!!! I can't wait!!! THIS IS GOING TO BE HELL waiting!!!! You better have a very detailed review!!!
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Can't wait to read your review. I have a feeling the whole album is insanely good.
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New killing song from upcoming album:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/RedemptionBand?sk=app_108468622525037
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbfltbjJl5k
...great...
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Very nice! Sounds killer!
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Pre-ordered the 2-cd + shirt from CM Distro
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ME TOO!
OMG BFF!!!!
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ME TOO!
Me three!
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I pre-ordered as well, but I didn't go for the shirt. Didn't look like something I would actually wear. That track sounds killer.
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$10 for a shirt ain't bad.
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I'm looking at that package aswell, but being in Australia, I'm not sure how long it would take.
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And I thank you guys for reminding me to order that shirt bundle. :lol
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Do labels still send out promo's?
I've searched for reviews of this album and can't find anything.
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Do labels still send out promo's?
I've searched for reviews of this album and can't find anything.
Our very own Nick got a promo and reviewed it here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0)
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Don't forget to go to their website at redemptionweb.com and check out their forum on UltimateMetal.com
Need more people on that forum! I have this one and that one open all day while I'm at work. I wonder if that's why business has slowed down a bit? Nah.
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Do labels still send out promo's?
I've searched for reviews of this album and can't find anything.
Our very own Nick got a promo and reviewed it here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0)
But really, who would trust that guy?
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Do labels still send out promo's?
I've searched for reviews of this album and can't find anything.
Our very own Nick got a promo and reviewed it here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0)
But really, who would trust that guy?
I don't see why you wouldn't. I mean, he's like the last person that would ever let you down.
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Do labels still send out promo's?
I've searched for reviews of this album and can't find anything.
Our very own Nick got a promo and reviewed it here: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0 (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26935.0)
But really, who would trust that guy?
I don't see why you wouldn't. I mean, he's like the last person that would ever let you down.
And I did stay at his place and he didn't rape me. That's got to count for something in today's society.
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release date is closing...can't wait...
strange...Europe and world get it sooner than North America...
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Well, I know a guy who knows a guy who... you get the idea. Yes, the label still sends out promos. ::)
The album is solid. :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
Obviously it takes more than one listen to fully "get it". A couple of people have talked about it on the Ultimatemetal.com forum. Ray sounds great as always. The song I like the least on Snowfall is "Fistful of Sand" (sometimes skipping past that one), and after a few listens of This Mortal Coil, I don't think there is a song that I would skip. Hoping the final mix/master of the album is a bit better than the promo. Its not mixed very well; its a bit muddy. But we'll find out soon enough. It will well be worth the wait.
I just can't wait to hear the second disc of covers, as I only have the first disc. Hopefully I'll get it in the mail the day of US release!
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You limey bastards get to listen a full two weeks before us here in the states. You guys suck. Gotta let us know about the covers disc. Is their version of "Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding" is just as interesting as DT's version from way back when. That and the Toto song I'm most interested to hear.
I know the album itself is outstanding. "Perfect", "Begin Again", "No Tickets To The Funeral", and "Stronger Than Death" really stand out for me. But the whole album is solid.
Check out their forum on www.ultimatemetal.com for more reviews and info. You CAN be on both forums!
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Ok, so I've heard bits and piece of the album on a teaser and the Noonday Devil track. I put on earphones and to me Ray's voice sounds somewhat scratchy and gritty, not as clear as the Ray of old. This is likely due to him smoking. I was at a show last year where he went to have a cigarette during a long instrumental part of a Fates Warning song. So, to those that have heard the album, how is his voice?
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There's a bit of a teaser on youtube which is pretty good. The covers sound quite good, I'm most excited about Love to Love, one of UFO's best songs.
Even from the teaser you can tell that Ray sounds pretty rough, still enjoyable, but just rough.
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I've heard latest album a few times. To me its sounds more heavier and darker and sometimes more metal straight, little less melodic that Snowfall...but anyway, this music is class in prog metal, it has a few strong moments (like mellow song LET IT RAIN), Ray is perfect as always and lyrics are influenced by Nick's disease.
I would say the Production/Sound is not that great as on Origins or Snowfall...
... surely recommended...
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After one listen.
I'm pretty unimpressed.
It's very samey with some of their previous stuff.
I know alot of bands have a "sound" I get that...but...really...they nickelbacked a few of these right from other albums.
Unfortunate.
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Ok...I wrote my previous poast was made without hearing the final two tracks of the album.....HOLY FUCK.....the last two make it worth the money.
AMAZING
stronger than death is incredible....
those two songs completely sound...seperate from teh rest of the album which is utterly forgetable.
weird.
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While I agree that there are some familiar riffs on this album (I could name everyone I recognised, but I wont), I still enjoyed it after only one listen and I don't regret ordering it. It sucks when bands reuse or rehash old material, riffs and melodies and I'll never understand how some of the blatantly obvious ones seem to slip by the songwriter, but in this case the songs were still very enjoyable.
Nick's probably going to beat me to death with his guitar for pointing out more stuff like this, but I don't mean any offense. I know it's hard to write original music (just about every bit of KrotchRaut is ripped off from something, but that's kind of intentional), and again, I really enjoyed This Mortal Coil and am looking forward to it coming in the mail along with a new shirt, but I can't help but point things like this out. I do it for all my favorite bands. I think Iced Earth is the biggest offender and I love that band to death.
Ok...I wrote my previous poast was made without hearing the final two tracks of the album.....HOLY FUCK.....the last two make it worth the money.
AMAZING
stronger than death is incredible....
those two songs completely sound...seperate from teh rest of the album which is utterly forgetable.
weird.
No Tickets To The Funeral would like a word with you.
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opeth is the biggest offender in my books of that issue....
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opeth is the biggest offender in my books of that issue....
Opeth isn't really my cup of tea. I own Watershed, and enjoy a song or two off that album occasionally, but they just don't do it for me, but I believe I have heard what you're referring to with their song structures.
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ya...it's not just those two bands mentioned but a lot, symphony x do it too....
anyhow...zook what do you think of Stronger Than Death...I get goosebumps from the chorus.
Amazing song.
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I've only heard it once, but I remember liking it. I was listening at work while throwing freight so I tried to focus on the album as much as possible. I do remember the last song being a mix of Transcendence and Life In One Day, which was pretty cool.
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I wish October 11th would hurry up and get here so us Americans can have it.
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**subtle hint**
I had no idea it wasn't out yet in the US.
Sorry all.
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Jerk.
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Ytse, I agree about "Stronger Than Death". That's one of my favorites. Actually I think the entire second half is a bit stronger than the first. "Focus", "Perfect", and "Stronger Than Death" are amazing!
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So, has anyone actually received a copy of the officially released CD? (Not a promo copy). I was reading a thread on Redemption's forum that I believe included you, beowolf, and some people were expressing concerns about the production or the album being mastered too loudly. Just wanted to see if that's the case on the final product or if it was just the early promos, etc.
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ya...the sound on my ...er...promo copy is a tad off.
I'd be shocked if the actual CD sounds like this.
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This is a band that I think peaked with "The Fullness of Time" and I've just never really been able to embrace and get into anything else they've released, although I have purchased them all hoping to be as blown away as I was by songs like "Sapphires" and "Parker's Eyes" and have, unfortunately, been somewhat disappointed in most of their subsequent releases. Not sure if I'm going to buy this one. I'd love it if they would stream it somewhere so I could hear it first.
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I wish October 11th would hurry up and get here so us Americans can have it.
I thought it was Oct. 4th?
Shit, that's going to hold up the rest of my order an extra week.
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Just received my 2CD copy in the mail. :metal :metal :metal
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Wolf, please let us Yanks know how the quality is. I know I'm dying, hoping and praying that the quality on the official release is better than the "promos" that are out there. I know it will be a bit better, just from the standpoint that the "promo" stuff that's out there is only 192K.
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Just bought mine, and the new Pain of Salvation....too many godd%%% records coming out this month! >:(
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Actually, CM Distro shipped mine yesterday. Looks like I'll have it Monday.
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I just looked up my order and it just says "InProcess". So that could really mean anything. But I already have a "promo" copy of the album. I just want my shirt and the second disc already. So, hopefully I'll get it right around the 11th.
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I hope I get my Redemption t-shirt by like Oct. 10, so I can wear it to the DT shows I'm going to on Oct. 11-12. You never know if the size you picked is gonna fit properly, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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I hope I get my Redemption t-shirt by like Oct. 10, so I can wear it to the DT shows I'm going to on Oct. 10-11. You never know if the size you picked is gonna fit properly, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I was going to wear mine to the DT concert as well.
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I'm not sure what the problems with the production were on the promo but I'm listening to the real thing now. The production is okay, but I'm only listening through my basic stereo system. It sounds big and beefy, but the mix is quite muddy, not too bad, but definitely not as clear as Snowfall.
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I'm not sure what the problems with the production were on the promo but I'm listening to the real thing now. The production is okay, but I'm only listening through my basic stereo system. It sounds big and beefy, but the mix is quite muddy, not too bad, but definitely not as clear as Snowfall.
That's good to hear that the production is better on the real thing. Not sure why it would be different though. I figure it's all taken from the same source, but what do i know. Yea, Snowfall was on a level all its own. If I were the band, I wouldn't have changed a thing studio/production-wise from Snowfall when planning to record the new album. I would have rehired all the same engineers and used the same studio, etc.
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....... That damn ''Wicked'' riff...
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Ok I have to point this one out too:
Tool's Schism at 6:08 of Departure of the Pale Horse
So yeah, this album isn't perfect. Symphony X's Wicked riff and the main riff to Iconoclast found it's way into this album (Dreams from the Pit), and there are some familiar riffs from past Redemption albums, but I'm still going to agree with Nick's rating of an 8.5, cause even with it's flaws, the album still rocks.
can't wait for muh ordah.
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for me, the last two songs carry the entire album...the rest of which is pretty 6/10.
This disc will make my top 10 of 2011, based on the last two songs alone....they're THAT good.
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The covers were a nice listen but IMO, they are pretty boring and lifeless. Edge of the Blade is tuned down so low for Ray. :lol Ray's voice is really is shot.
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The covers were a nice listen but IMO, they are pretty boring and lifeless. Edge of the Blade is tuned down so low for Ray. :lol Ray's voice is really is shot.
Yeah this is so true, and it is disappointing that he destroyed his voice mostly by smoking.
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The covers were a nice listen but IMO, they are pretty boring and lifeless. Edge of the Blade is tuned down so low for Ray. :lol Ray's voice is really is shot.
Yeah this is so true, and it is disappointing that he destroyed his voice mostly by smoking.
Yeah, although he would have lost range as time went by, he really could have helped himself.
Check his vocals towards the end of Blink of An Eye I think it is, the notes he's trying to go far just fall so short, disappointing. I will say Funeral is easily one of the band's best songs. I still need a lot of time to digest this whole record.
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For me, the jury's not quite in yet on this one. I feel there's a lack of overall 'urgency' and songs that blow me away like they did on fullness of time and Origin of Ruins. It's all a bit too 'samey' for me. But like I said, it's too early days yet. I do think the covers were a nice touch.
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Jerk.
Personal attack, bant.
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I just got this in yesterday, but I got 6 other CDs in the mail also so I've only got one listen in, and I wasn't dissapointed. Nothing blew my away, but it's only one listen.
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Just got mine in the mail. Very excited to hear the cover songs. LOVE my shirt!!
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I'm wearing my shirt to the DT concert.
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Cool. Hope mine is there when I get home today.
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If you pre-ordered I can't imagine it not being there, unless it is waiting for another pre-order as well.
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I pre-ordered and I'm still waiting, but I honestly expect it here in the next few days.
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How is the packaging, guys? Anything unexpected or eye-catching?
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If you got the 2CD edition, there is a second insert with some goofy pictures of the band. Didn't actually look in the booklet though. I had 7 CDs come in the mail yesterday, didn't really inspect them at all.
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Nothing interesting with the packaging. the inner about the cover songs is pretty funny. You have the guys dressed as King Diamond, Lemmy, Ian Anderson and Buckethead.
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I got the CD. Now, I'll say that I got into Redemption last year and I fell hard and fast for their music. I love it. They've been my most listened to band the past year, by far. But, as others have said in various reviews elsewhere, the production doesn't seem good to me. It affects my listening experience, despite the fact that the songwriting here is very good! I popped in the disc and heard it right away. Certain vocals and instruments seem too loud, and others seem too low. And the instruments all blend and crunch together into almost a fuzzy-type sound. I'm not a music engineer, but from what I've read that is due to mastering a disc too loudly?
I must say, though, Nic can write some freaking songs. This guy is a songwriting monster. And what a lyricist. Love this guy so much.
And to Ray, please take care of your voice. You were blessed with the best voice in progressive metal, IMO. Cherish it.
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I must say, though, Nic can write some freaking songs. This guy is a songwriting monster. And what a lyricist. Love this guy so much.
And to Ray, please take care your voice. You were blessed with the best voice in progressive metal, IMO. Cherish it.
I don't have the CD yet, so I can't speak for the first part of your post, but every word in this part is spot-on.
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I haven't gotten my copy yet, though they said they shipped it several days ago. Hopefully tomorrow afternoon it'll come in the mail.
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Sadly, I cancelled my pre-order a few days ago. I will buy the CD eventually, but I'm in a rut, and now my car needs a fixin'.
There's other CDs I wont be able to buy on their release day either. POO GAS!
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I got the CD. Now, I'll say that I got into Redemption last year and I fell hard and fast for their music. I love it. They've been my most listened to band the past year, by far. But, as others have said in various reviews elsewhere, the production doesn't seem good to me. It ruins my listening experience to the point where I can't enjoy the music -- despite the fact that the songwriting here is very good! I popped in the disc and heard it right away. It almost sounds like a demo to me. Certain vocals and instruments seem too loud, and others seem too low. And the instruments all blend and crunch together into almost a fuzzy-type sound. I'm not a music engineer, but from what I've read that is due to mastering a disc too loudly?
I felt really sad when I heard it. I love Redemption and I've even emailed Nic in the past when certain lyrics really helped me through a hard time, and he was nice enough to respond. Like I said, the songwriting seems just as strong as past albums, but for me it's hard to enjoy the listening experince. I'm surprised it wasn't noticed by the engineers or record label. Maybe the whole process was rushed? I remember seeing Facebook posts in which Nic said they were pressed to meet deadlines. I'd rather a band take four years to make an album and get it perfect than something like this happen.
I must say, though, Nic can write some freaking songs. This guy is a songwriting monster. And what a lyricist. Love this guy so much.
And to Ray, please take care of your voice. You were blessed with the best voice in progressive metal, IMO. Cherish it.
Although the the mix being a little muddy, I really don't have a problem with the production at all. I agree what you are saying regarding the instrument volumes and the fuzz type sound at times, but really it doesn't distract from my listening experience at all, and the more I listen to this, the more the songs are growing on me.
And as for Ray, it's too late, his voice is shot.
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I'm really kind of surprised at the production comments, because even though I haven't been over the moon about their last few albums, I've always thought that the production values were very good, if not great.
I'll buy this when it comes out in the states, but probably just the digital version.
So far the reviews I've read here and elsewhere have been quite mixed.
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"Perfect" might be my favorite song so far. What a beautiful song with incredible lyrics. It instantly made me look at life differently.
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I've been listening nonstop and I'm starting to hear past the production issues and really embrace the music and lyrics. I've been sitting with the booklet open and following the words. I'm so blown away. What fantastic, life-changing lyrics. And the lyrics are woven through the songs to link them all, culminating with the final verse in the final song that referrences all the prior song titles. Nic is the best in the business. He really pours everything he has into his music and it's beautiful.
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Funeral could very well be my fav song of the year.
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Got it today. It's great, but I'm listening to the covers disc right now and the only thing I'm noticing is that Ray's voice sounds very tired and worn. Maybe it's just the songs he's singing?
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No, Ray's a habitual smoker and its only a matter of time before it completely craps out on him. Given a few takes, he can still do good, but if you have the Redemption live DVD, he's very rough and shaky voice wise at places.
This album seems to be a grower, which is odd because normally Redemption doesn't have to grow on me. I'm still enjoying this more each listen, but I don't think it will top Snowfall.
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I've only listened to it 2 or 3 times, but I'm enjoying it more than Snowfall which I was sort of disappointed with. Although saying that, I listened to a couple tracks from it the other day and actually enjoyed them more than I remembered :D Will have to give them both a load more listens, but I can't tear myself away from ADTOE :blush
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Hi there everybody!
Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
The only thing I'm going to say is that it would be a neat trick for me to have stolen the lick from Iconoclast considering I wrote this material about six months before it came out! : ) In fact, the main riff from Dreams from the Pit was written around the time I wrote the music for Fullness of Time.
There are only so many frets on a guitar, and tritones are popular in metal.
I actually do try to ensure I'm not using any of my own material. There are a number of recurring riffs WITHIN the CD which are purposeful. As an example, the prechorus in Begin Again uses the same chords as the chorus in Perfect. If I've stolen my own material, feel free to point it out. :)
Anyhow, hope you all enjoy the music!!
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Oh no... I wish you hadn't said that... In all seriousness, I still enjoy the album, Nick, and it's only a few minor similarities I noticed. And the Iconoclast riff is derived from a riff in Wicked right before the second verse. You and Romeo should duke it out for riff rights. I'm pretty sure you'd win, as long as Russell wasn't there.
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Probably not a good idea, Zook. I don't think the following would end well for anyone involved:
NVD: "Nice riff you got there, bub."
MR: "Who you callin' Blob?"
*epic battle that results in tons of property damage*
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If that fight ever happened Nick would just have to distract Romeo with a cheeseburger and then victory would be assured.
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Hi there everybody!
Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
The only thing I'm going to say is that it would be a neat trick for me to have stolen the lick from Iconoclast considering I wrote this material about six months before it came out! : ) In fact, the main riff from Dreams from the Pit was written around the time I wrote the music for Fullness of Time.
There are only so many frets on a guitar, and tritones are popular in metal.
I actually do try to ensure I'm not using any of my own material. There are a number of recurring riffs WITHIN the CD which are purposeful. As an example, the prechorus in Begin Again uses the same chords as the chorus in Perfect. If I've stolen my own material, feel free to point it out. :)
Anyhow, hope you all enjoy the music!!
Hey Nick, I personally don't think there is anything close to a rip off on the album, and didn't really hear anything that I thought of something else, only Redemption. Redemption are really one of the most freshest metal bands in the last years.
This album is a hell of a grower and its working its way up the ranks there with Snowfall, and the lyrics are amazing. I think I can definitely say that Funeral is my fav song of the year. Amazing album, and definitely will be in my top of 2011 list.
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I literally can't stop listening to this album. I must say that I can't fully relate to the lyrics at this point in my life, because I'm a healthy guy in my early 30s and I've only lost grandparents. But I'm sure when the topic of life and death finds me in life, I will be looking to this album for comfort and understanding. Just like I looked to Origins of Ruin for comnfort late last year when I had a relationship that fell apart. Nic captures feelings so wonderfully. I'm still kinda bummed about the album's production in places, but it doesn't bother me as much anymore. The artwork is beautiful too. And I can't wait to wear my Redemption CD at the DT show tomorrow!
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Probably not a good idea, Zook. I don't think the following would end well for anyone involved:
NVD: "Nice riff you got there, bub."
MR: "Who you callin' Blob?"
*epic battle that results in tons of property damage*
:lol
And I can't wait to wear my Redemption CD at the DT show tomorrow!
Are you going to wear it on your head?
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anyone else going to the show on Saturday in LA? should be a good show, havent seen them since last year(i think?) at the Whiskey. Can't wait to hear the new songs live :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Nick,
Big fan of your work and I think I speak for us all when I say it's good to see you around considering where you were.
That said, any chance of getting some live dates across the country? I've travelled nearly a thousand miles for a show, and it's a safe bet that several of us would put on some miles to see you live.
Of course if you want to play in Southwest Virginia I'll put you up for free, I'll even cook for the band and crew!
PS - I'm definately rocking my This Mortal Coil shirt when I see Dream Theater next week. I'll say hi to James for you ;)
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I am a bit late on this, which I myself am surprised by, but This Mortal Coil is one of my top 10 albums of the year, if not top 5.
I have been a fan since I saw the Chaos In Motion Tour in Minneapolis, actually, scratch that, I've been a fan since I bought The Fullness Of Time and The Origins Of Ruin back my last day of being a Senior in High school. And I was one of the fortunate 3 that named Redemption's live DVD, Frozen in The Moment. (I'll happily supply pics upon request for proof) :metal
While I absolutely love Snowfall On Judgement Day. This Mortal Coil is one of my favorite albums since Evergrey's Recreation Day. The whole theme of the album hits home with me and very similar experiences in my family and with friends. I'm not ashamed that I had a couple tears hit my eyes when I hear No tickets To The Funeral. By the time Pale Horse came on, I was completely overjoyed. and applauded by myself in front of my computer.
Normally lyrics are the last thing I care about on an album. Being a drummer, I always listen to the music and Melodies before anything else. but this time the lyrics grabbed me and have yet to let me go.
Nick, if you read this, you've made a perfect album in my eyes. My only disappointment in this album is that I'll probably never see a show supporting this album. I hope one day Redemption in Minnesota again. I know Swordlord Productions would happily supply a show at Station4 if they opportunity ever arises. Maybe before or after ProgPower next year?
Also, next week I will be playing No Tickets To The Funeral. I will send you a link when I record the show.
Once again fantastic, perfection of an album. Major Kudos, and keep kicking ass Nick!
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And finally the American release day is here!
I'm actually kinda surprised, usually CMdistro would have had this here either Monday or Saturday. Hopefully it comes today though.
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And finally the American release day is here!
I'm actually kinda surprised, usually CMdistro would have had this here either Monday or Saturday. Hopefully it comes today though.
I got mine from CM distro Thursday last week, and I live in the middle of nowhere compared to you.
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I actually think mine hasn't shipped yet, and I should probably look into things...
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Perhaps being held up by another preorder?
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No, I found out what the problem is. Apparently when I ordered I typed in a wrong credit card #. They sent me an email about it, but I just dismissed it as the normal post-order email.
Pain of Salvation shirts are now out of stock so I'll end up just ordering it and this from Amazon now. Oh well, guess I'll be waiting a few more days.
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Oh Nick you're a laugh a minute :lol
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And finally the American release day is here!
I'm actually kinda surprised, usually CMdistro would have had this here either Monday or Saturday. Hopefully it comes today though.
I got mine from CM distro Thursday last week, and I live in the middle of nowhere compared to you.
I didn't get mine until today. Still release day, though, so I can't complain. Can't wait to listen.
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I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that this album is fucking incredible!! :metal
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I'm still debating whether I should be a dick and accept Nick's challenge to point out the similarities from past albums...
I know he'd be cool about it though. If I were to do the same thing with say, Iced Earth, Schaffer would probably e-mail my job...
Of course, that's only if Schaffer gave a damn about the internets.
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I purchased a copy of this today at The Laser's Edge while picking up a few other discs I had been meaning to get.
Will post some thoughts once I've had a few listens.
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I'm still debating whether I should be a dick and except Nick's challenge to point out the similarities from past albums...
If you do I hope he's a dick and points out your fantastic grammar. :p
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so far I am disappointed by this album. I will keep spinning it and hoping for the best, but it seems to lack the melodies of the other albums. of course, I don't see how they could've repeated SOJD
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I'm still debating whether I should be a dick and except Nick's challenge to point out the similarities from past albums...
If you do I hope he's a dick and points out your fantastic grammar. :p
YOU DID THAT!
:blush
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Just checked the mail. Still no Redemption.
I WANT TO JOIN IN THE DISCUSSION, DAMMIT.
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No Homers allowed.
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(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_247AQFCCbrU/SUSEAcU-TXI/AAAAAAAAAMM/3UREtg6cpDw/s400/NoHomers4.jpg)
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I'm still debating whether I should be a dick and accept Nick's challenge to point out the similarities from past albums...
I know he'd be cool about it though. If I were to do the same thing with say, Iced Earth, Schaffer would probably e-mail my job...
Of course, that's only if Schaffer gave a damn about the internets.
I noticed some as well, though I haven't looked into it enough to know how direct the similarities actually are.
I also agree with some of the earlier statements that the second half of the album is stronger than the first.
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@nvandyk
Hi Nick, great to see you here...
TMC is very solid powerful album, with full of strong awesome moments...thank you.
My favorite song is LET IT RAIN...
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Alright, I'm having to retract some of my earlier comments after some more spins. It IS a great album, musically, (but not as great as some of the earlier ones) and the lyrics are great as well. So far, Stronger than Death is my favourite cut, together with Dreams from the pit.
The coverversions are done very good as well. Especially like the Tori Amos one. :metal
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Still taking this in after one listen yesterday on a work-related road trip, but so far, I really like it. As usual, the music is very dense, so it is difficult for me to differentiate between the songs after only one listen. I did, however, notice the reprises in Departure of the Pale Horse. Well done.
The covers disk is very cool. And let me take just a moment to say: "Thank you very much!" Seriously. A covers disk with an album that only raises the price of the whole package by $2-3 or so is a VERY welcome bit of bonus material that is well worth the bit of added expense for the special edition. I wish other bands would take note of this. Half a dozen or so covers on a bonus disk is a GREAT thing. A separate covers CD release and resulting tour (Def Leppard, Stryper, Queensryche, Tesla--well, okay, strike that last one. That one actually was pretty good) is generally not. Redemption and bands like DT get it. Thanks.
And speaking of which...WHO IS ANNA KRISTINA?? She is amazing on that Tori Amos song. I definitely plan on checking out some of her music. Might even make it to one of her shows, since it appears from her website (https://www.annakristina.com) she regularly plays at a club in N.Cal. Nick, where did you find her?
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A covers disk with an album that only raises the price of the whole package by $2-3 or so is a VERY welcome bit of bonus material that is well worth the bit of added expense for the special edition. I wish other bands would take note of this. Half a dozen or so covers on a bonus disk is a GREAT thing. A separate covers CD release and resulting tour (Def Leppard, Stryper, Queensryche, Tesla--well, okay, strike that last one. That one actually was pretty good) is generally not. Redemption and bands like DT get it. Thanks.
This is so true. I love the option of being able to buy a bonus CD, and I agree that it's much better than releasing a separate album of cover songs. I haven't sunk my teeth into disc two yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
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The covers disk is very cool. And let me take just a moment to say: "Thank you very much!" Seriously. A covers disk with an album that only raises the price of the whole package by $2-3 or so is a VERY welcome bit of bonus material that is well worth the bit of added expense for the special edition. I wish other bands would take note of this. Half a dozen or so covers on a bonus disk is a GREAT thing. A separate covers CD release and resulting tour (Def Leppard, Stryper, Queensryche, Tesla--well, okay, strike that last one. That one actually was pretty good) is generally not. Redemption and bands like DT get it. Thanks.
And speaking of which...WHO IS ANNA KRISTINA?? She is amazing on that Tori Amos song. I definitely plan on checking out some of her music. Might even make it to one of her shows, since it appears from her website (https://www.annakristina.com) she regularly plays at a club in N.Cal. Nick, where did you find her?
I fully agree with all of this. And Anna Kristina sounded DAMN good on that cover.
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I got mine a week ago, so last Thursday. I can't seem to get the CD out of my car! If I have the radio on, my 12-year old son asks where the new Redemption is. I have listened countless times now, and I am still hard-pressed to name one song as my favorite.
DALLAS is ready to host! The tour needs to come here! Or at least someone (through the band, even) should record (audio and/or video) the Saturday show. Then they could post it as a special through their website or something. This could help sate those of us who won't get the opportunity to see the band live. Unfortunately, I have a demanding job that doesn't allow me to travel long distances for other shows.
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Still getting used to all the songs, so I can't really post a "review" of the album, other than to say I am liking it a lot. But just wanted to pop back in the thread to say that, like many songs before it, Stronger Than Death proves once again that even the simplest riffs can be the most headbanging metaltastic things in the world when done right with a rythm section doing its job underneath. :2metal:
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As I mentioned, for me, those last two carry the disc.
The rest of the disc is about 6.5--7/10 the last to songs are 11's.
great stuff
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Those two jumped out at me early as well. But the first two tracks are pretty tasty as well. While the overall sound of Path Of The Whirdwind doesn't feel like an opening track to me, it conveys a sudden, chaotic sense of feeling lost in a surreal situation, which is appropriate in the context of the album's theme. And I love the Ellefson-like bass line in the opening of Blink Of An Eye, and how that them carries through in the guitar riffage and vocal melody throughout that song.
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There are a lot recycled tones and stuff on the disc though...not sure how Nick can say otherwise. I don't have a problem with it, many bands are like that..it's "their sound" but...its there for sure.
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My fav track is still "Perfect." The vocal melody is just addicting.
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A couple of things.
Re: Anna Kristina, she and I went to high school together! This is not her usual style at all but I knew she had it in her. She plays in a number of contexts in the San Francisco area with some regularity. She used to be in Zeperella, an all-female Led Zep tribute band, but she stopped doing that recently (again, pretty far afield from the stuff she normally likes to do).
https://www.annakristina.com/
Re: recycled riffs, it's not so much that I'm challenging those who claim they are here but I'm genuinely interested to know where you are hearing them since I do try not to repeat myself (unless it's intentional, as for example the opening riff on track 1 which appears in the second verse of No Tickets and also in Let it Rain).
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Let me re-spin it again and some of their older discs so I can support my claim.
may take a day or so.
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Re: Anna Kristina, she and I went to high school together! This is not her usual style at all but I knew she had it in her. She plays in a number of contexts in the San Francisco area with some regularity. She used to be in Zeperella, an all-female Led Zep tribute band, but she stopped doing that recently (again, pretty far afield from the stuff she normally likes to do).
https://www.annakristina.com/
Re: recycled riffs, it's not so much that I'm challenging those who claim they are here but I'm genuinely interested to know where you are hearing them since I do try not to repeat myself (unless it's intentional, as for example the opening riff on track 1 which appears in the second verse of No Tickets and also in Let it Rain).
Yeah, I went to her website right away after I saw her name in the credits. I'm guessing she likely lives somewhere on the Peninsula since she regularly plays that club in Pacifica. Just out of curiosity, where did you two go to highschool, if you don't mind me asking?
As far as the album, the more I listen, the more blown away I am. The music itself is incredible. But the subject matter also hits close to home. Nick, I am a relatively new fan. First time I ever heard you guys was opening for DT in Berkeley in 2007. Unfortunately, I wasn't impressed, but that isn't really any fault of the band. The sound for both of the opening acts at that show was just terrible. And on top of that, Ray's voice was just not on at all (and I really hate to even point that out, as a singer myself who understands how difficult it is to perform consistently in a live setting sometimes). But after a bit of encouragement from people here, I picked up Snowfall in 2009 and was instantly hooked. My understanding is that you have a full-time day job, but I hope you can continue to find a way to balance that with making music for a long, long time because I am consistently impressed with what you and the guys do.
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Alright Nick, you asked for it.
Another reason to keep me up... Argh!
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First familiararity is on Path Of The Whirlwind. From :13-:26 seconds, it sounds an awful lot like :44-1:11 of Peel. The riffs are different, but the drums are doing almost the same thing. So you get a pass, but I'm afraid it's too late for Chris Quirarte. SILENCE!
(https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k34/Zook85/redemptiondrevil2.jpg)
Same song, the riff before the verses come in is the same riff in The Suffocating Silence.
No Tickets to The Funeral's only crime is copying the way a soundbyte is played before the solo like in Leviathan Rising. "It has begun" Vs. The funeral is about to begin". This is my favorite song on the album.
Dreams From The Pit. I already talked about this one. The Iconoclast and Wicked riff. Let's just say I created it. *insert Michael Romeo fat joke here* We also have the riff from Pagan's Mind's The Celestine Prophecy. During the solo, The Suffocating Silence riff returns.
Ah Narcosynthosis, I mean Fistful of Sand, I mean Laviathan Rising, I mean Noonday Devil. There we go. It's OK, that same riff will be in a KrotchRaut song too. Can't deny awesomeness.
For Focus, the melody from This Dying Soul makes a second appearence in one of your songs with the bass at the beginning. The first appearance being in Keep Breathing, during the instrumental section, only slightly modified. Fistful of Sand riff returns again in this song during the solo. I also noticed something else, but I'll save it for the last song.
The only thing on Begin Again I hear is a riff from Countdown to Extintion (the song). If you hadn't noticed, I'm pointing out every similarity I hear, not just from your songs. Yeah I know, I suck.
Departure of The Pale Horse starts with the synth keyboard (if that's not what it is, well, I never said I was a music genius). Then at 6:08 we get Tool's Schism! MY BRUTHA knows how to play that riff. Also, I heard a variation of the schism riff in a couple other songs earlier.The song ends like Transcendence. I love that song too.
Well as you can see, I'm a dick. But seriously, all this hasn't hurt my enjoyment of this album. I still love it. I love all your albums. Well, not the debut, but everything after that. I love Redemption, plain and simple, and these little flubs don't matter. Besides, Lost Not Forgotten is Under A Glass Moon!
Now if you'll excuse me, I must either eat something or pass out, or both.
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It just hit me what having Path of the Whirlwind start this album reminds me of. Anyone here familiar with the Y&T song, Sqeeze? Of course not. Why would you be? Here, treat yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx6be9OE6Mw
Anyhow, I remember Dave Meniketti commenting about the song and saying something along the lines of: "The record label told us we couldn't start a song like that. But we wrote it that way on purpose because we wanted it to sound like you just dropped the needle in the middle of a record with a high-energy, full-on, assault of rock that was about to rip your face off." The point was, it doesn't really feel like how you would normally expect a song to start, and it kinda catches you off guard. This album is kinda like that. It just drops you right into the middle of the turbulence that the album is about, and sort of puts you as the listener off balance in a way that I suppose sort of mirrors the protagonist dealing with the issues brought out in the songs on this album. Interesting...
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Of course there's one person here familiar with that amazing Y&T song, bosk! :tup
Interesting analogy, I can slightly see where you're coming from with that. As with Zook and his similarities, I'll have to check these out later.
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I've gotten through this album one time so far and I like what I'm hearing. Some of my friends have complained about the production. I guess I'm just not that picky, to me it sounds good. There are certainly some mixing choices there that I might not have made myself, but I think these things are always subjective to some extent.
I have a question if Mr. van Dyk is still reading: Is there a 7-string guitar in use here?
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OH MY GOD THOSE VOCAL HARMONIES ON PERFECT JUST BLEW MY FUCKING MIND
That's all for now. More later.
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On my third listen now and I can already tell that I like this better than the last couple of releases - not that the last couple were bad or anything, but there's something about this one. I think it has more variety to the sound.
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I am digging it as well. I was initially disappointed with the production but after repeated listens I guess I am just taking it for what it is. Considering the cover art/lyrical themes I actually think the mix works and fits.
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Like I wrote earlier in this thread, I may not have made the same choices on the mixing, but the mastering is noticeably NOT brickwalled, which is nice, and I noticed that the keyboards seem a little more prominent in the mix, which I dig.
I guess the only criticism I have at this point (and it's a very minor beef) is the vocals seem a bit......rough......in spots. They're not bad, mind you. Ray's voice does seem to be losing some of that power and authority that he had on the earlier recordings.
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Very much enjoying the record. Thanks to Nick and the guys for putting out another quality record.
This one hits home for me, personally (like I am sure it does for many folks). While I'm not a cancer survivor like Nick, I lost my Mom to the big C back in Jan. 2010 after a year battle with it. She was just 58. Not the same kind of cancer as Nick's, but it really doesn't matter.
Listening to the record, I can't help but imagine if she was thinking similar thoughts, particularly through about the first half of the record or so, during her battles with the disease. Obviously, I'll never be able to ask. But like Nick, she fought hard, and this album really reminds me of the strength and emotion my mother showed in her own battle, albeit through the words of another person.
Thanks for sharing, Nick. also -- your blog about your experiences is also something I still read to this day.
Really diggin' the new tunes. Hope you guys get to tour the states a little bit at some point in the future. I saw the Berkeley, Calif. 2007 show too. Like bosk1 said, sound was off, but I was already a fan, so it was all about just singing along.
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Heard it for the first time today. I love it. Look forward to digging in further.
And as the resident UFO fan here on DTF, THANK YOU for covering the most underrated song of the 70's!
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The covers disc is decent, but the new album is wonderful. But why are you a Genesis hater? Be more specific: most people hate later Genesis with Phil and the sappy, crappy songs. But the early stuff with Gabriel, and even the first couple of albums with Phil singing aren't bad at all.
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And as the resident UFO fan here on DTF, THANK YOU for covering the most underrated song of the 70's!
Yeah, Love to Love is amazing. I think this is the best cover of the disc too. Damn, you're right TAC such an underrated song.
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The covers disc is decent, but the new album is wonderful. But why are you a Genesis hater? Be more specific: most people hate later Genesis with Phil and the sappy, crappy songs. But the early stuff with Gabriel, and even the first couple of albums with Phil singing aren't bad at all.
Believe me when I say he hates ALL of it.
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The covers disc is decent, but the new album is wonderful. But why are you a Genesis hater? Be more specific: most people hate later Genesis with Phil and the sappy, crappy songs. But the early stuff with Gabriel, and even the first couple of albums with Phil singing aren't bad at all.
Believe me when I say he hates ALL of it.
:lol
So true!
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Zook -
Apologies for the delay -- I wasn't ducking you, just busy! :)
First familiararity is on Path Of The Whirlwind. From :13-:26 seconds, it sounds an awful lot like :44-1:11 of Peel. The riffs are different, but the drums are doing almost the same thing. So you get a pass, but I'm afraid it's too late for Chris Quirarte. SILENCE!
I actually noticed this as we were recording but forgot to have him change it. You're right, it is rythmically similar! But the fundamental riff is indeed so different that I don't think it matters that much.
Same song, the riff before the verses come in is the same riff in The Suffocating Silence.
No, it's not. :)
Both are a D minor scale, but there are differences in the notes.
No Tickets to The Funeral's only crime is copying the way a soundbyte is played before the solo like in Leviathan Rising. "It has begun" Vs. The funeral is about to begin". This is my favorite song on the album.
Glad you like the song! The clip in Leviathan Rising, from V for Vendetta, says "penny for the guy." I don't think you can say that a sample saying "penny for the guy" and another sample saying "the funeral is about to begin" is a recycled riff. :)
Dreams From The Pit. I already talked about this one. The Iconoclast and Wicked riff. Let's just say I created it. *insert Michael Romeo fat joke here* We also have the riff from Pagan's Mind's The Celestine Prophecy. During the solo, The Suffocating Silence riff returns.
Again, I wrote this primary riff for this song in 2003, and it has a decidedly Savatage feel to it. I listened to Iconoclast a few times yesterday and I don't hear the similarity. I don't know the Pagan's Mind song so I can't comment on it. I will grant you, the motif used between the second and third guitar solos is similar to the motif used in the outro technical section to Suffocating Silence, although the modulation to different keys and the different time signatures (4/4 in DftP, 7/4 in Suffocating) make them distinct enough.
Ah Narcosynthosis, I mean Fistful of Sand, I mean Laviathan Rising, I mean Noonday Devil. There we go. It's OK, that same riff will be in a KrotchRaut song too. Can't deny awesomeness.
Well, now I think you may be getting a bit carried away. This is simply a rhythmic figure. Is Symphony X's "Of Sins and Shadows" recycling "The Mirror" by DT simply because they have a rhythmic figure in the verse that is the 8th note before the down beat and then two eighth notes?
For Focus, the melody from This Dying Soul makes a second appearence in one of your songs with the bass at the beginning. The first appearance being in Keep Breathing, during the instrumental section, only slightly modified. Fistful of Sand riff returns again in this song during the solo. I also noticed something else, but I'll save it for the last song.
Hruh? I don't follow you re: TDS, or Keep Breathing. See previous comment re: Fistful of Sand.
The only thing on Begin Again I hear is a riff from Countdown to Extintion (the song). If you hadn't noticed, I'm pointing out every similarity I hear, not just from your songs. Yeah I know, I suck.
Where? If anything in my writing sounds like Megadeth, it's the solo backing sections to Keep Breathing and the final guitar solo in Dreams from the Pit! :)
Departure of The Pale Horse starts with the synth keyboard (if that's not what it is, well, I never said I was a music genius). Then at 6:08 we get Tool's Schism!
If this was Tool (I don't know them) my bass player woulda stopped me. He knows every riff of theirs. It might be *similar* to Tool, though.
Well as you can see, I'm a dick.
Hardly! :) A little OCD, maybe, but I appreciate your enthusiasm and your willingness to take me up on my challenge. I will give you there are some similar concepts in your notes, but I don't think I'm overly guilty of "recycled riffs" as was originally stated.
But seriously, all this hasn't hurt my enjoyment of this album. I still love it. I love all your albums. Well, not the debut, but everything after that.
1. Thank you very sincerely, and 2. I agree with you re: the debut! ;)
I love Redemption, plain and simple, and these little flubs don't matter.
I really appreciate it, Zook!
Besides, Lost Not Forgotten is Under A Glass Moon!
I think you must be a savant with this stuff! I know that every Iron Maiden song from Number of the Beast through Seventh Son (all great records) has the E, C, D E chord progression -- I can spot that stuff. But I wouldn't have made the connection between LNF and UAGM! I can't even make the connections in stuff I wrote!! :)
Now if you'll excuse me, I must either eat something or pass out, or both.
[/quote]
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I just want to say congrats to Zook and Nick. That was some great reading.
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Oh cool, I thought I scared you away, Nick :P Thanks for replying and yeah I'm a little OCD when it comes to music (lol Portnoy) I have to point out every little thing that sounds similar.
I wish I could make a video with all this stuff to show you, but I'm sure Bosk would devour my soul if I did. It's not important, but some of the things you said you couldn't hear similarities for I feel I MUST SHOW YOU!!!!
I am glad you were cool with my write up cause I felt kinda rude while doing it. Thanks again for respoding! You rock! :2metal:
Oh, and if you wanna hear The Mirror in a Symphony X song, listen to The Death Of Balance ;)
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After listening to the new album more, it has definitely grown on me. The first half of the album, which I initially thought was weaker, actually has a lot of songs standing out more and more. Great stuff.
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I wish I could make a video with all this stuff to show you, but I'm sure Bosk would devour my soul if I did. It's not important, but some of the things you said you couldn't hear similarities for I feel I MUST SHOW YOU!!!!
I'm cool with it if they are limited clips, as long as Nick doesn't mind.
Personally, I get a VERY strong Symphony X vibe from Dream From The Pit. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it in the least, or that it was intentional, or that I can even point to a specific song. But it just reminds me very strongly of the typical Symphony X sound.
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After listening to the new album more, it has definitely grown on me. The first half of the album, which I initially thought was weaker, actually has a lot of songs standing out more and more. Great stuff.
It's grown on me A LOT! Yesterday, on the drive home (35 minute commute), I just listened to Stronger Than Death over and over. Such a powerful song.
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I wish I could make a video with all this stuff to show you, but I'm sure Bosk would devour my soul if I did. It's not important, but some of the things you said you couldn't hear similarities for I feel I MUST SHOW YOU!!!!
I'm cool with it if they are limited clips, as long as Nick doesn't mind.
Personally, I get a VERY strong Symphony X vibe from Dream From The Pit. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it in the least, or that it was intentional, or that I can even point to a specific song. But it just reminds me very strongly of the typical Symphony X sound.
There's a huge Sym X vibe, especially in the first 4 songs.
I even sense some Anthrax, especially the verse to Path Of The Whirlwind. There's another point in the album, I can't remember where..I also felt a strong Anthrax vibe.
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I wish I could make a video with all this stuff to show you, but I'm sure Bosk would devour my soul if I did. It's not important, but some of the things you said you couldn't hear similarities for I feel I MUST SHOW YOU!!!!
I'm cool with it if they are limited clips, as long as Nick doesn't mind.
Personally, I get a VERY strong Symphony X vibe from Dream From The Pit. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it in the least, or that it was intentional, or that I can even point to a specific song. But it just reminds me very strongly of the typical Symphony X sound.
Awesome! I'll get started. :zook2:
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Wow, really cool that Nic responded to Zook. A lot of musicians would just duck the discussion, but he went ahead and candidly responded in a polite way. Very nice. I checked out the Path/Peel similarity and I hear it, but I didn't go any further. An occasional similarity is fine to me, as long as it's not a full song.
I'm still listening to the disc nonstop. I haven't even gotten to the covers disc yet. I'm enjoying disc one too much. But I wonder why Ray didn't participate in the funny photo shoot?! Lol.
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Been working on my video and would have had A LOT more done than I do, but Windows Movie Maker keeps crashing, so I think that's enough for today.
Bloody hell.
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Nick,
You rock. Thanks for your input in your responses to Zook. VERY good reading!!
Ever thought of rerecording the first album with Ray?
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After listening to the new album more, it has definitely grown on me. The first half of the album, which I initially thought was weaker, actually has a lot of songs standing out more and more. Great stuff.
This. The first five tracks just slay.
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Nick,
You rock. Thanks for your input in your responses to Zook. VERY good reading!!
Ever thought of rerecording the first album with Ray?
I must be the only person who has grown to love Rick Mythiasin's voice over time. Seriously, I could not get into the first album for the longest time because of that, but one day it just clicked. Never could get into Steel Prophet, though.
Though I guess if Ray did all the vocals, it would still be pretty damn good. Production would probably be better, anyway.
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Just posting to say that this album is currently dominating my CD player.
(https://www.kirksnosehair.com/pics/headbanger.gif)
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Been working on my video and would have had A LOT more done than I do, but Windows Movie Maker keeps crashing, so I think that's enough for today.
Bloody hell.
I'm actually looking forward to this mate.
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I'm gonna redo the audio track in Audacity so there wont be so much shit going on in WMM and causing it to crash, sooo it will be a lil longer.
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Nick,
You rock. Thanks for your input in your responses to Zook. VERY good reading!!
Ever thought of rerecording the first album with Ray?
I must be the only person who has grown to love Rick Mythiasin's voice over time. Seriously, I could not get into the first album for the longest time because of that, but one day it just clicked. Never could get into Steel Prophet, though.
Though I guess if Ray did all the vocals, it would still be pretty damn good. Production would probably be better, anyway.
I'm with you man, it's not that bad at all.
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Just posting to say that this album is currently dominating my CD player.
(https://www.kirksnosehair.com/pics/headbanger.gif)
Yep...after a week it's the same story here...
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Just posting to say that this album is currently dominating my CD player.
(https://www.kirksnosehair.com/pics/headbanger.gif)
Yep...after a week it's the same story here...
:metal :hefdaddy :tup
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Nick,
You rock. Thanks for your input in your responses to Zook. VERY good reading!!
Ever thought of rerecording the first album with Ray?
I must be the only person who has grown to love Rick Mythiasin's voice over time. Seriously, I could not get into the first album for the longest time because of that, but one day it just clicked. Never could get into Steel Prophet, though.
Though I guess if Ray did all the vocals, it would still be pretty damn good. Production would probably be better, anyway.
I just can't seem, for the time being, to really get into the first album. Though don't misunderstand me. I have no problems with Rick. I just LOVE Ray's voice. To me there is much more emotion. :'( I just think it would be cool to hear Ray singing those songs.
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I don't like the first album as much as I do the next three, but that has nothing to do with Rick Mythiason (sp?) who I love. His work on the classic Steel Prophet albums is incredible and he delivers a great performance on Redemption.
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The debut is the only album I have never heard from them. I really should check it out.
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Nick,
You rock. Thanks for your input in your responses to Zook. VERY good reading!!
Ever thought of rerecording the first album with Ray?
I must be the only person who has grown to love Rick Mythiasin's voice over time. Seriously, I could not get into the first album for the longest time because of that, but one day it just clicked. Never could get into Steel Prophet, though.
Though I guess if Ray did all the vocals, it would still be pretty damn good. Production would probably be better, anyway.
I just can't seem, for the time being, to really get into the first album. Though don't misunderstand me. I have no problems with Rick. I just LOVE Ray's voice. To me there is much more emotion. :'( I just think it would be cool to hear Ray singing those songs.
I'm thinking it has to do with there being way 'too many words' in the longer songs. But I like the concept of doing songs about those books like hell. I mean, Something wicked this way comes' must be the most badass 'kids' story I've read in a long time... But 'Desperation' suffers from too much story, really. NOTHING bad about the music thogh, and the I've dug the hell out of the shorter songs on there as well. 'Nocturne' is till one of my fave Redemption songs.
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Hey folks!
Regarding the video, Zook, I wanted to put some ground rules in place...hope it's not too late. I don't mind you comparing Redemption songs to other Redemption songs but I don't want clips of other bands in there. Secondly, I don't want changes to keys or to tempos.
Regarding the first record, I think it's so far from the rest of our catalog in terms of the approach to songwriting, performance and everything else...I'm content to let it recede into the distance. I like Ray's performance of Nocturnal on the live CD; I suppose it is conceivable we could pull out part of Something Wicked (probably an instrumental section) in a concert one day. I don't anticipate going back to re-record it...it's more like Symphony X's first one than it is like When Dream And Day Unite, for example.
I'm happy to hear that many of you are enjoying our new CD! For the King Diamond avatar dude, you should pick it up, both because (1) it sounds nothing like the debut and is much better, and (2) I dress up like King Diamond for the covers CD. :)
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Hey folks!
Regarding the video, Zook, I wanted to put some ground rules in place...hope it's not too late. I don't mind you comparing Redemption songs to other Redemption songs but I don't want clips of other bands in there. Secondly, I don't want changes to keys or to tempos.
Regarding the first record, I think it's so far from the rest of our catalog in terms of the approach to songwriting, performance and everything else...I'm content to let it recede into the distance. I like Ray's performance of Nocturnal on the live CD; I suppose it is conceivable we could pull out part of Something Wicked (probably an instrumental section) in a concert one day. I don't anticipate going back to re-record it...it's more like Symphony X's first one than it is like When Dream And Day Unite, for example.
I'm happy to hear that many of you are enjoying our new CD! For the King Diamond avatar dude, you should pick it up, both because (1) it sounds nothing like the debut and is much better, and (2) I dress up like King Diamond for the covers CD. :)
No problemo, Nick. Please don't hate me after I post it. :D I actually put the video on hold for a little bit to work on KrotchRaut stuff. That's my band, maybe you've heard us... :zook2: Also, I like Desperation Part III and Nocturnal, but that's about it. I do own the first CD for collectors sake though. I'd actually like Symphony X to rerecord the first album 'cause Masquerade turned out awesome. Granted that's probably the best song on there (I haven't listened to it probably since I bought it in 2006) but I'd still be interested. It's too late for WDADU to be rerecorded. They should have done that after Images and Words.
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I'm happy to hear that many of you are enjoying our new CD! For the King Diamond avatar dude, you should pick it up, both because (1) it sounds nothing like the debut and is much better, and (2) I dress up like King Diamond for the covers CD. :)
Hey Nick, yeah, I meant that your debut is the only album I haven't got, the rest are brilliant, and TMC is spending so much time in the cd player. Also, the cover cd booklet was funny as hell. You got the King Diamond facial expressions mastered well. :lol
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Nick, how do you feel about bootlegs and YouTube videos, 'cause I found some amazing performances of you guys on YouTube that I'd love to post here.
Also, I know Arizona sucks, but you guys need to come back here PRONTO!!!
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So cool to see Nick posting around here again.
I find the first album to be incredible. It took a few listens to grow on me, but now, it is my 3rd favorite, behind Fullness and Origins.
Also, Nick, you're my favorite lyricist. Sapphire and Memory in particular are masterpieces.
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I'd just like to add my comment to all the others about how cool it is that Nick posts here and is happy to involve himself in discussions with his fans. :tup
And also to echo Panic Attacker about Sapphire and Memory being masterpieces. Memory is the song that first got me hooked on Redemption and Sapphire is one of my favorite songs of all time. (inb4 kanye meme)
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I'd just like to add my comment to all the others about how cool it is that Nick posts here and is happy to involve himself in discussions with his fans. :tup
I am honored, and you're welcome. ;)
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Dammit Nick!
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I agree with Zook in regards to the YouTube vids. Just amazing. The vid of Black and White World truly emphasizes the epicness (epicality? epicalidocious?) of the song overall. The ending section with Nick and Ray singing together runs chills down my spine. The intense lyrics of that song still can bring tears to my eyes. Ray's emotions are incredible.
And for those naysayers, give some of the vids a listen. Ray sounds incredible! Yes, his voice sounded a bit rough on the concert DVD/CD "Frozen in Time", but that video also has no overdubs or anything to take away from the excitement and the electric feel of the show as a whole.
Just my two cents. Can I have my change?
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I agree with Zook in regards to the YouTube vids. Just amazing. The vid of Black and White World truly emphasizes the epicness (epicality? epicalidocious?) of the song overall. The ending section with Nick and Ray singing together runs chills down my spine. The intense lyrics of that song still can bring tears to my eyes. Ray's emotions are incredible.
And for those naysayers, give some of the vids a listen. Ray sounds incredible! Yes, his voice sounded a bit rough on the concert DVD/CD "Frozen in Time", but that video also has no overdubs or anything to take away from the excitement and the electric feel of the show as a whole.
Just my two cents. Can I have my change?
"Frozen In The Moment"
NO CHANGE FO YU! ;)
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+ 1000 on all the comments about 'Saphire'. Goddamnit, I can't even begin to tell in how many ways that song hits close to home with me. I've been trying to write a song like that for ages, but Nick just said it all about that subject in that song. Also, Memory is probably my second fave Redemption song for the same reason.
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This album has held up really well over the last 6-8 weeks. Every song has pretty much opened up to me and I can see the value and quality in every song. A fantastic piece of work. I still don't think it's as good as Snowfall yet but it's a hell of a follow up.
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:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Dammit. Frozen in the MOMENT. I knew that. Just a brain-fart. I'm getting old and forgetful, I guess. Or just old and stupid.
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This album is still kicking my ass sideways. I think I'd have to put it in second place, just behind "The Fullness of Time" which I consider an absolute masterpiece. So if I were to rank the albums, my list would go like this:
1. The Fullness of Time
2. This Mortal Coil
3. Snowfall on Judgement Day
4. The Origin of Ruin
5. Redemption
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I am really hummed that this album is not clicking with me. It is prob at bottom right now. Snowfall was such a masterpiece
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I am really hummed that this album is not clicking with me. It is prob at bottom right now. Snowfall was such a masterpiece
Well, it's clicking so hard for me that I'm sure there is enough click for both of us. :)
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I guess this would be my ranking, but having TMC at #4 doesn't mean it's one of my least favorites, it's just that 1-3 are so damn good. 1 and 2 like to switch places also.
1. Snowfall On Judgment Day
2. The Origins Of Ruin
3. The Fullness Of Time
4. This Mortal Coil
5. Redemption
I still need to get This Mortal Coil!!! I NEED MONEY!!! ARGH!
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Not sure what I'd rank, I'd probably put TMC second behind Snowfall. Although I did listen to Ruin yesterday for the first time in a little while and good lord what a terrific album.
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Hmmmm.............
1. The Fullness of Time
2. Snowfall on Judgment Day
3. Origins of Ruin
4. Redemption
5. This Mortal Coil
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Hmmmm.............
1. The Fullness of Time
2. Snowfall on Judgment Day
3. Origins of Ruin
4. Redemption
5. This Mortal Coil
Failing as usual.
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Nick must have been playing hockey without a helmet again. The concussion will subside in a few days.
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So I've been listening to TMC now for a couple weeks and I'm HOOKED! It didn't start out that way though. At first I was underwhelmed, but not disappointed...there's a difference. So I gave it a couple more spins and BAM! It hit me. For me it was the lyrics in combination with the music that made me realize that the mood of each particular song reflects the lyrics and made me feel what he was going through. I have such high regard for this album at this point that I rank it tied with Snowfall at #1. If Snowfall wasn't so strong musically, TMC would surely overtake it for the reasons stated.
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hmmm...well, I will keep a-spinning and hope to have the same revelation you had
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TMC will be slugging it out with TFoT for the second spot, behind Snowfall of course.
What is impressive is that TMC seems to have won out compared to the 7 other albums that came in that order.
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I've gotten through this album one time so far and I like what I'm hearing. Some of my friends have complained about the production. I guess I'm just not that picky, to me it sounds good. There are certainly some mixing choices there that I might not have made myself, but I think these things are always subjective to some extent.
I have a question if Mr. van Dyk is still reading: Is there a 7-string guitar in use here?
KNH -
Sorry I missed this earlier. 7 strings are used on No Tickets to the Funeral and Stronger than Death.
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Hey Nick, yeah, I meant that your debut is the only album I haven't got, the rest are brilliant, and TMC is spending so much time in the cd player. Also, the cover cd booklet was funny as hell. You got the King Diamond facial expressions mastered well. :lol
Glad you liked that! All that cross-eyed stuff was giving me a headache. I was wondering, while doing that, when he went from "okay, I'm going to look scary" to "okay, it's not enough to look scary, I have to look insane, and the best way to do that....is to cross my eyes!!!"
I was laughing for a week about those pictures!
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I've gotten through this album one time so far and I like what I'm hearing. Some of my friends have complained about the production. I guess I'm just not that picky, to me it sounds good. There are certainly some mixing choices there that I might not have made myself, but I think these things are always subjective to some extent.
I have a question if Mr. van Dyk is still reading: Is there a 7-string guitar in use here?
KNH -
Sorry I missed this earlier. 7 strings are used on No Tickets to the Funeral and Stronger than Death.
Thanks for responding.
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Nick must have been playing hockey without a helmet again. The concussion will subside in a few days.
Hah, I always wear my helmet. :p
I mean I gave TMC an 8.5/10, so it's not like I don't think they are all great.
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I actually love The Origins of Ruin alot. If I was to rank Redemption albums including TMC, I'd go...
Snowfall on Judgment Day: 9.5.
The Origins of Ruin: 9.0
This Mortal Coil: 8.5
The Fullness of Time: 8.0
I haven't listened enough to the first album to give an accurate ranking.
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Hey Nick, yeah, I meant that your debut is the only album I haven't got, the rest are brilliant, and TMC is spending so much time in the cd player. Also, the cover cd booklet was funny as hell. You got the King Diamond facial expressions mastered well. :lol
Glad you liked that! All that cross-eyed stuff was giving me a headache. I was wondering, while doing that, when he went from "okay, I'm going to look scary" to "okay, it's not enough to look scary, I have to look insane, and the best way to do that....is to cross my eyes!!!"
I was laughing for a week about those pictures!
:rollin Great stuff Nick!
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I'd give TMC a solid 9.5, it's that good. :metal
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I actually love The Origins of Ruin alot. If I was to rank Redemption albums including TMC, I'd go...
Snowfall on Judgment Day: 9.5.
The Origins of Ruin: 9.0
This Mortal Coil: 8.5
The Fullness of Time: 8.0
I haven't listened enough to the first album to give an accurate ranking.
Fullness: 9.75
Snowfall: 9.75
Origins: 9.5
Redemption: 8.75
Coil: 8.5
I know some don't like my Coil ranking but overall it's not tough to see why I love Redemption so much. Five albums in and my lowest ranking is an 8.5.
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I'd give TMC a solid 9.5, it's that good. :metal
Between TMC and the new DT and Arch/Matheos, I am really hard pressed to pick a favorite album of the year. I literally have no idea which one I will choose.
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You could invent a 3-sided coin to flip, then flip it.
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You could invent a 3-sided coin to flip, then flip it.
That's GENIUS!!!
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You could invent a 3-sided coin to flip, then flip it.
That's GENIUS!!!
Best out of 3! :facepalm:
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:rollin
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It still hasn't clicked with me, i like a few of the tracks(No Tickets, Focus, Dreams from the Pit) but i dont enjoy it as much as the previous albums(except the S/T). Not sure why, i just haven't had the urge to listen to it in a while. Maybe it will change with time.
1. Origins of Ruin
2. Fullness of Time
3. Snowfall
4. This Mortal Coil
5. Redemption
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To expand upon my 3-sided coin idea, since we have heads and tails, I propose the new side be called tits.
"Call it in the air; heads, tits, or tails."
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I spent part of today comparing Snowfall and Coil. I'm definitely taking Coil. It's not even close.
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To expand upon my 3-sided coin idea, since we have heads and tails, I propose the new side be called tits.
"Call it in the air; heads, tits, or tails."
(https://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/3/23/129138647285799213.jpg)
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Funny how I listened to "The Origin of Ruin" this morning on the treadmill and it was WAY better than I remembered it.
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I love the variety of musical ideas in TMC. My album rankings:
1. This Mortal Coil
2. Origins of Ruin
3. Snowfall on Judgement Day
4. Fullness of Time
5. Redemption
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To expand upon my 3-sided coin idea, since we have heads and tails, I propose the new side be called tits.
"Call it in the air; heads, tits, or tails."
Or get a 4-sided coin. One side is "tits", the other side is "taints"!
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4 sided dice exist though. No inventing needed.
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My buddies and I are patiently waiting for Redemption to come play in the NYC area :)
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I'm giving this album a proper spin right now. I listened to it before, but didn't get all the way through.
The production is interesting.. it provides an unique vibe. Still sounds so Redemption though, which is always a good thing :D
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I will say this: Listening to the previous albums THEN putting this one on made me realize how different the production on this album really is. The one thing that stood out the most to me was the vocals seem to be pretty far back in the mix on TMC compared to the last two albums.
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WOOT! I finally bought This Mortal Coil. WOOT!
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WOOT! I finally bought This Mortal Coil. WOOT!
Better late than never I guess. Still a killer album and a top 3 album of the year.
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I've been listening to Redemption nonstop for the past two weeks. Literally, it's been all I've listened to. I've been going through some heartbreak and nobody can capture a feeling with lyrics like Nic van Dyk. "Memory" and "Life in One Day" are two tracks getting the most spins. "Memory" is sick. I've never seen a song so perfectly capture the regret of letting a loved one get away. I've also had the new disc in heavy rotation. "Focus" and "Perfect" and such beautiful tunes. Thank you, Nic van Dyk, for giving me something to comfort me when needed. It hasn't been the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last.
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This Mortal Coil is still kicking ass. I like it better than both DT's and SX's new albums. :metal
I wish I hadn't pulled a Thiago though...
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Is this the official Redemption thread?
anyway, I got Snowfall recently and really, really like it. Where do I go next? I've heard good things about The Origins of Ruin and This Mortal Coil. Are they both similar to Snowfall?
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Is this the official Redemption thread?
anyway, I got Snowfall recently and really, really like it. Where do I go next? I've heard good things about The Origins of Ruin and This Mortal Coil. Are they both similar to Snowfall?
It is now.
Snowfall is the cream of the crop IMO, but next I'd get Origins, then Mortal Coil then Fullness of Time.
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what are the three best songs from Origins? Got a $3 amazon mp3 credit recently. Looking to get some songs from this album to check it out.
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The Suffocating Silence
Memory
The Death Of Faith And Reason
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The Suffocating Silence
Memory
Fall On You
Fixed. Fuck, Bleed Me Dry is amazing aswell.
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I agree. Fall On You I like a bit better than Death of Faith and Reason. But Snowfall is simply perfection.
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The Suffocating Silence
Memory
Fall On You
Fixed. Fuck, Bleed Me Dry is amazing aswell.
Well he said 3. Fall On You would be 4th. The whole album is great, although Bleed Me Dry is my least favorite, and to be honest, removing it from the album would improve it.
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Wow. I'm listening to Bleed Me Dry right now, I think it's terrific.
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I hate you all for posting in this thread because every time I see it's been updated I'm all "HOLY SHIT I BET THEY'RE ANNOUNCING WORK ON A NEW ALBUM THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME oh somebody wants song recommendations."
Fuck you guys.
:heart
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It's a tad early for an announcment like that, don't ya think?
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It's a tad early for an announcment like that, don't ya think?
This.
We won't hear anything this year, and probably not the first 6 months of 2013 either. Probably even longer actually.
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Yeah, I believe Nick said Mickey has him pinned down good for a while.
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That's what I've heard as well. Aside from working on the PP show, there's nothing on the near horizon for Redemption.
Damn that mouse.
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It's a tad early for an announcment like that, don't ya think?
Yeah, totally. But every now and then a band surprises me by how quickly they get back into the studio.
And I definitely wouldn't mind if Redemption surprised me by how quickly they get back into the studio.
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Just want to say that it is a crime against humanity that I forget to listen to Redemption as often as I should to be reminded of their awesomeness.
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Yeah, I haven't listened to them for a while either, need to do something about that.
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Setlist:
1. Threads
2. The Suffocating Silence
3. Dreams From The Pit
4. Parker's Eyes
5. Fall On You
6. Noonday Devil
7. Stronger Than Death
8. Black and White World
9. The Death of Faith and Reason
10. Walls
Added Saturday songs:
Nocturnal
Origins of Ruin
Would have liked to have seen Threads, Nocturnal, and The Suffocating Silence replaced since they were on the last DVD, but oh well, I think they got the right ones off of Snowfall. Can't wait for my DVD now.
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Is the last DVD any good?
For the new one, I'm kind of on the fence about it. On one hand, as much as I love this band, Ray's live voice just tanks it for me. On the other hand, it's not going to completely suck, and I want to support this band in any way I can. In the end, I'll still get it. But I'm going into it with sort of low expectations.
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I think it´s a great dvd, audience is outstanding on it. The band as well, but if you can´t stand Ray´s deteriated voice, you probably shouldn´t buy it.
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Last DVD was good, but not spectacular if you compare it to how amazing they are in studio. And you can tell it's not a big budget thing, but it still looks pretty good. Then again with the amount of bands that record stuff at the end of tours, it's gotta be tough on bands that go out and do these shoots on one offs.
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Great DVD, but not as quality as their studio albums.
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Snowfall on Judgement Day is amazing. Seriously, I've been meaning to get into Redemption for a while and the tracks that I knew were pretty awesome, but listening to Snowfall for the first time as an album today blew me away in ways that few albums have ever done. I think I listened to the album three times today already. :metal :metal :metal
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You can't escape now!!! Mwah-ha-ha!!
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Snowfall on Judgement Day is amazing. Seriously, I've been meaning to get into Redemption for a while and the tracks that I knew were pretty awesome, but listening to Snowfall for the first time as an album today blew me away in ways that few albums have ever done. I think I listened to the album three times today already. :metal :metal :metal
Everything after their S/T (ie, when Ray and Chris joined) is dy-no-mite!
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10 months ago
Jazz still cares, but otherwise you are right -- great comment. Too bad Metallica, whom I had the pleasure of seeing many times in the 80s, are a shadow of their former selves. Still, this kicks all kinds of ass.
I rip off all kinds of classical music in my band, Redemption (Ray Alder of Fates Warning is our vocalist). Check us out if you like. Shameless plug but then I've had a bit of wine tonight! :)
WTF? :lol
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Every time I get a notice from Kickstarter, my heart jumps a bit. Come on, May/June!! I can't wait for this CD/DVD!!!
May the force be with you, Nick, in getting everything worked out!!!!
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Necro bump.
Where do I start with this band? Need to listen to more Alder.
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I think Snowfall On Judgment Day is generally considered their best.
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Fullness Of Time probably. And maybe Snowfall On Judgement Day. Then the other two Alder-Redemption albums.
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Snowfall on Judgement Day is probably the best overall starting point I think.
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Thanks. What ever happened with that kickstarter DVD?
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Last thing I heard was there was some technical issues.
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One more vote for Fullness of Time. Their strongest effort IMO.
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Well I ordered snowfall.. we'll see how this goes.
I'll pick up more if I like it... as soon as the smoke clears on my checking account. Lots of spending this month on music.
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One more vote for Fullness of Time. Their strongest effort IMO.
You can't go wrong with either, but I'll voice my preference for Fullness > Snowfall (by a slim margin).
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Snowfall for me as well. I tried The Origins of Ruin in 2007, but I just couldn't get into it. 2 years later, Snowfall instantly clicked, and then shortly after so did Origins. Fullness is also good, as is This Mortal Coil. Hell, every album is great except the debut.
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Snowfall for me as well. I tried The Origins of Ruin in 2007, but I just couldn't get into it. 2 years later, Snowfall instantly clicked, and then shortly after so did Origins. Fullness is also good, as is This Mortal Coil. Hell, every album is great except the debut.
I'll send you the bill when I order all of those ;)
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YAY for Youtube. Listening to Snowfall "full album" while I wait for mine to arrive. I wish it was an Amazon autorip...
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3Mins in
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg)
WTF happened to Alder's voice?
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lolwut
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I really like him on Snowfall.
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I really like him on Snowfall.
Second track is better vocally so far.
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For me
Fullness
Redemption
Origins
Snowfall
Coil
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Thanks. What ever happened with that kickstarter DVD?
The last thing officially posted was a video snippet to make sure people were properly credited and their names were correct. It's behind schedule because of technical stuff.
My ranking would go something like this:
Snowfall on Judgment Day
Fullness of Time
This Mortal Coil
Origins of Ruin
s/t
The self titled is better than most people make it out to be, it's still worth getting. I think it just gets hate because it's the weakest of a very strong group.
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The last thing officially posted was a video snippet to make sure people were properly credited and their names were correct. It's behind schedule because of technical stuff.
My ranking would go something like this:
Snowfall on Judgment Day
Fullness of Time
This Mortal Coil
Origins of Ruin
s/t
The self titled is better than most people make it out to be, it's still worth getting. I think it just gets hate because it's the weakest of a very strong group.
Thanks. I'll check them out as money permits. They aren't discounted like most discs.. so Snowfall was $12 (I think), but Fullness of Time is 14.99 and so on. Used they're 8-10 on amazon + 4 shipping just makes more sense to buy them new as money permits. S/T seems out of print. It doesn't have Alder but on one track so I'm not _THAT_ interested in it.
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S/T isn't a realy good album anyway. Just make sure you listen to Fullness of Time next :metal
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S/T isn't a realy good album anyway. Just make sure you listen to Fullness of Time next :metal
Snowfall has about 10 mins left. :hefdaddy
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The self titled is better than most people make it out to be, it's still worth getting. I think it just gets hate because it's the weakest of a very strong group.
Not for me. IMO, it just outright honks.
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Something Wicked This Way Comes :hefdaddy
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The self titled is the best of the five. :lol The Desperation songs and Something Wicked This Way Comes are the most memorable Redemption songs I know.
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The self titled is the best of the five. :lol The Desperation songs and Something Wicked This Way Comes are the most memorable Redemption songs I know.
They are incredible, as is the rest of the album.
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The self titled is the best of the five. :lol The Desperation songs and Something Wicked This Way Comes are the most memorable Redemption songs I know.
Weirdo.
My ranking:
Snowfall on Judgment Day
This Mortal Coil
The Origins of Ruin
The Fullness of Time
Redemption
The top four are almost perfect albums, but all contain one song I'm not too thrilled about. Those songs being: Parker's Eyes, Bleed Me Dry, Another Day Dies, and Begin Again.
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The self titled is the best of the five. :lol The Desperation songs and Something Wicked This Way Comes are the most memorable Redemption songs I know.
Weirdo.
I'm such an individual.
(https://www.avforums.com/forums/attachments/general-chat/323124d1341483171-higgs-boson-awesome_smiley_face_rage_f7u12_funny_meme_sticker-p217514200448309390envb3_400.jpg)
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Just listening to This Mortal Coil right now. This album is so ridiculously good.
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Just listening to This Mortal Coil right now. This album is so ridiculously good.
Excellent album. Haven't listened to it in a while. Need to.
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I'm so used to us getting a new Redemption album every odd-numbered year that it's almost weird to go through 2013 without one. :D
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I'm so used to us getting a new Redemption album every odd-numbered year that it's almost weird to go through 2013 without one. :D
Yeah, agreed.
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Origins Of Ruin is my favorite by far! For comparative purposes, giving that a 10, I'd give Snowfall and Mortal Coil an 8, fullness of time a 7, and s/t... It's decent but I haven't listened enough to rank it.
The song stretch of Blind My Eyes, Used to Be, and Fall on You are the main reason for Origins being my favorite. They are all top ten Redemption songs for me, and they work perfectly back to back to back.
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I just wanna say, the song "Perfect" is so incredible.
Also, I'm surprised there's been no dvd updates.
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Nick might be neck deep in Star Wars stuff. That is what he does right?
I wish I had the money at the time to contribute to the kickstarter so I could get the top secret updates. I wanted an autographed DVD too.
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Also, I'm surprised there's been no dvd updates.
You just pissed me off cause I thought there may have been an update from this band seeing them at the top of page 1! >:(
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Nick might be neck deep in Star Wars stuff. That is what he does right?
I wish I had the money at the time to contribute to the kickstarter so I could get the top secret updates. I wanted an autographed DVD too.
Yeah, there hasn't been an update from Nick in quite some time, so the Star Wars reason was what i was thinking, too.
I'm glad i was able to contribute (though not as much as i wanted to) to get a signed DVD for my son.
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What is the "Star Wars reason"?
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What is the "Star Wars reason"?
he is some kind of exec at Disney. I know he has been involved in the movie side of things, but beyond that I don't know how he might be specifically involved in the Star Wars franchise.
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I believe he was one of the top guys involved in the buy out of Lucasfilm.
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I believe he was one of the top guys involved in the buy out of Lucasfilm.
I'm not sure about that, but being an exec at Disney would certainly constitute several jobs at once.
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I believe he was one of the top guys involved in the buy out of Lucasfilm.
I'm not sure about that, but being an exec at Disney would certainly constitute several jobs at once.
I remember NVD actually saying that he was involved in some capacity.
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LOL. Well...this is what I do for Disney. I was one of the senior team on the Lucas acquisition. So yes, I was very involved.
No Redemption music is planned for future Star Wars films, though. :)
Serious deja vu. I think I posted this before.
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Well, since I'm sure somebody is leaking things anyway, NVD's hard drive crashed on his computer and it took a while, but the audio and video was recovered. It is near completion. The cover art is pretty cool.
I don't have inside information, I'm just a kickstarter backer.
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Thanks for that. Good info.
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Listening to some Redemption tonight. Started with Snowfall on the iPod, now Origins. I gotta say, no band's music comforts me quite like Redemption. I can't explain it.
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Dear friends -
It's been a while since I stopped by -- sorry for the absence but there's been a lot going on. : )
I'm pecking these notes late at night with the dwindling remains of a very nice gin and tonic beside the laptop, in a hotel in Little Rock, Arkansas where I'm spending the week getting my bi-annual workup of tests to make sure that cancer remains sitting in the curb where I kicked it. Early results are quite positive.
The DVD will be out one week later than envisioned due to some distribution logistics with our label, but will still essentially be ready by mid September.
I have two gorgeous new guitars being made by my friends at Conklin and they will be arriving shortly, after which I will resume writing for the next record. We will be announcing label news shortly.
For a number of reasons, I want this next record to be particularly excellent. Not the least reason being I want to say "thanks" to our most loyal fans -- you are the best.
Be well, all of you, and I pledge to be around more in the future!
Best,
Nick
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Sounds like the band is probably leaving Inside Out Records. I hope that if that's the case, the switch doesn't hurt the sales of their next album.
Also, it's good to hear that Nick is still doing well.
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I did get an email about the live DVD from a different PR group than who normally sends Redemption emails, so they very well could have moved to a new label.
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Here's the official press release:
https://www.earsplitcompound.com/site/2014/07/18/redemption-sensory-records-to-release-live-cddvd-from-los-angeles-progressive-metal-specialists/
REDEMPTION: Sensory Records To Release Live CD/DVD From Los Angeles Progressive Metal Specialists
Laser’s Edge division, Sensory Records, has confirmed the late Summer release of the new live album from Los Angeles-based progressive/power metal group, REDEMPTION.
In 2012, REDEMPTION co-headlined the world-famous ProgPower Festival in Atlanta, where the band recorded a unique show featuring nearly eighty minutes of material and staged with complementary visuals that drive home the compelling emotional impact of this band. That performance is now being constructed for official worldwide release as, Live From The Pit, to be delivered in a CD/DVD package including additional bonus material, including a 5.1 surround mix and more. From fan favorites such as the never-before-performed “Parker’s Eyes” to the crushing emotional weight of “Stronger than Death,” the band’s performance captured the special ability of its music to deeply connect with fans. In the words of one concertgoer, REDEMPTION’s show “was definitely the most exhausting, personal and emotional musical experience I’ve ever had.”
Live From The Pit will see release via Sensory Records — REDEMPTION’s original label, responsible for their seminal first two albums — on September 16th, 2014.
Live From The Pit Track Listing:
1. Intro/Threads
2. The Suffocating Silence
3. Dreams From The Pit
4. Parker’s Eyes
5. Fall On You
6. Noonday Devil
7. Nocturnal
8. Stronger Than Death
9. The Origins Of Ruin
10. Black And White World
11. The Death Of Faith And Reason
12. Walls
[DVD bears same track listing plus 5.1 surround mix and bonus material]
REDEMPTION is one of the leading progressive metal bands in the world today. Formed in 2000 by guitarist / keyboardist / songwriter Nicolas van Dyk, the band features legendary progressive metal vocalist Ray Alder of Fates Warning, as well as guitarist Bernie Versailles (Agent Steel), and the phenomenal rhythm section of Chris Quirarte (drums) and Sean Andrews (bass). REDEMPTION’s combination of heaviness not usually found in progressive metal, irresistible melodies and emotional urgency has created a unique and resonant voice for this band that sets them apart from the many clones in the genre, and which has gained them the attention of fans, critics and musicians.
Through the band’s first three studios albums — 2002’s self-titled debut, 2005’s The Fullness of Time, and 2007’s The Origins of Ruin — REDEMPTION gained a loyal fanbase and garnered rave reviews worldwide from critics, who describe Redemption’s music as, “one of the best progressive metal acts to emerge in the past decade” [DPRP], praised their “magical aura and incredible songwriting” [Blabbermouth], stating, “it’s powerful, catchy, enslaving, technical; it’s the whole bunch” [Lords Of Metal] and having been dubbed, “the new star on the US prog-metal sky” [Squealer Rocks].
REDEMPTION has captivated audiences around the world with their incredible live performances. This was proven on a massive scale in 2008, when the band supported Dream Theater on a five-week North American tour and documenting a headlining show at the tour’s end, entitled Frozen in the Moment, the band returned to the studio to release 2009’s Snowfall on Judgment Day and 2011’s This Mortal Coil.
REDEMPTION:
Ray Alder – vocals
Nicolas van Dyk – guitars/keyboards
Bernie Versailles – guitars
Sean Andrews – bass
Chris Quirarte – drums
https://www.redemptionweb.com
https://www.facebook.com/RedemptionBand
https://twitter.com/redemptionmetal
https://www.lasersedgegroup.com
https://www.facebook.com/TheLasersEdge
Hey guys, guess what?
Guys
guys
guess what
guys
guys
I suggested the album name :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Not a bad suggestion, man! :tup
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Sounds like thrash metal :millahhhh
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Still a bit underwhelmed by the tracklist, but this is still a first day buy.
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I did get an email about the live DVD from a different PR group than who normally sends Redemption emails, so they very well could have moved to a new label.
How'd you get on that mailing list?
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*snick snick snick*
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Hope they release a video teaser soon. I was within an arms length of the stage and wore a Knicks jersey so I could possibly spot myself in the DVD.
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Got my dvd in the mail over the weekend! Spotted the silhouette of my head banging throughout the entire show in the straight-on camera angle that is used throughout the dvd. And spotted a few friends as well. So great to re-live the show. I gotta say, that Bernie particularly stood out as nailing every solo with laser precision. Ray sounded great as well. I have to re-watch it later. But I'm thrilled it's finally out. :)
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Ray sounds much better than he did on the first DVD. This was well worth the wait.
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Got my dvd in the mail over the weekend! Spotted the silhouette of my head banging throughout the entire show in the straight-on camera angle that is used throughout the dvd. And spotted a few friends as well. So great to re-live the show. I gotta say, that Bernie particularly stood out as nailing every solo with laser precision. Ray sounded great as well. I have to re-watch it later. But I'm thrilled it's finally out. :)
Is it one fixed camera?
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No, it is not Zook.
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That's good to hear.
I regret not contributing to the kickstarter. I probably could have afforded it.
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I think you can still buy it, and probably for less than what I payed on Kickstarter.
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I think you can still buy it, and probably for less than what I payed on Kickstarter.
Yeah, but it wont be signed. That was the main selling point.
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I think you can still buy it, and probably for less than what I payed on Kickstarter.
Yeah, but it wont be signed. That was the main selling point.
I'll sign it for you. That's just as good.
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I think you can still buy it, and probably for less than what I payed on Kickstarter.
Yeah, but it wont be signed. That was the main selling point.
I'll sign it for you. That's just as good.
Would you? Oh man, that would be so kind of you. Thank you so much!
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I think you can still buy it, and probably for less than what I payed on Kickstarter.
Yeah, but it wont be signed. That was the main selling point.
I'll sign it for you. That's just as good.
Would you? Oh man, that would be so kind of you. Thank you so much!
:hat
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The DVD's weren't signed. Because the production problems pushed the release back, Ray and the other guys weren't around, so we got a signed photo instead. Have to admit, that was disappointing because now there is no difference between a kickstarter one and a regular one.
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That sucks. At least something was signed though.
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Got mine last night. Haven't found the "easter egg" bonus track, though. Supposedly, Nick said he had put in an extra video of a song that wasn't performed that night at ProgPower. Damned if I know where it is!
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Where can I order the DVD?
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Got mine last night. Haven't found the "easter egg" bonus track, though. Supposedly, Nick said he had put in an extra video of a song that wasn't performed that night at ProgPower. Damned if I know where it is!
Pretty sure that is the song "Origins of Ruin." They didn't perform at the show. They performed it the next morning during the intimate show for those who contributed to the DVD. As you can see from the footage, they don't have any audience shots during that song because there's only about 15 of us there, lol.
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If you click right on the main menu three times, none of the words are highlighted. Choose that, and my copy has the beginning of Leviathan Rising, and then it cuts out in the middle of the song. Don't know if that is a error on the DVD or not, I asked on the Kickstarter page if that was supposed to do that. Guess I'll have to wait and see if others have the same issue.
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Mine does the same thing. Cuts out after about a minute.
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Apparently, Bernie is in a coma. Sad sad sad news. He was so incredible on the new DVD. He nailed every solo with laser precision. Let's hope he gets better soon. Such a talented guy.
Link: https://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=106919
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Apparently, Bernie is in a coma. Sad sad sad news. He was so incredible on the new DVD. He nailed every solo with laser precision. Let's hope he gets better soon. Such a talented guy.
Link: https://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=106919
Dang. Now I want the DVD but I can't find it anywhere. I hope he gets better.
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Holy SHIT! That's so awful! He'll be in my prayers. So sad. Get better soon!!!!
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Apparently, Bernie is in a coma. Sad sad sad news. He was so incredible on the new DVD. He nailed every solo with laser precision. Let's hope he gets better soon. Such a talented guy.
Link: https://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=106919
Dang. Now I want the DVD but I can't find it anywhere. I hope he gets better.
https://www.lasercd.com/cd/live-pit-cddvd
Wishing Bernie all the best...Hope he gets better soon
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https://www.lasercd.com/cd/live-pit-cddvd
Wishing Bernie all the best...Hope he gets better soon
Thanks. I just ordered from them last week. Should have gotten this too. :facepalm:
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That really sucks. Hope he gets better soon.
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Bloody hell this is awful. Hopefully he recovers well.
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Hopefully he has Nyk's fighting spirit too.
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Although similar things have been said countless times in the past, it just seems necessary to reiterate that Snowfall and This Mortal Coil are about as close to musical perfection as you can get. That is all.
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Although similar things have been said countless times in the past, it just seems necessary to reiterate that Snowfall and This Mortal Coil are about as close to musical perfection as you can get. That is all.
Yes they are!
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I am listening to This Moral Coil this morning and am reminded again how deep and touching the lyrics are, and how complex and beautiful the music is. The only problem I have with the album is that the production makes the album overwhelming and fatiguing to listen to at the appropriately ludicrious volume it calls for. Not sure if it is the mix and just bringing too much of everything to the forefront, if it is the mastering and the fact that it is just mastered too hot and loud, or maybe a combination of both. This is one of the few times you will ever hear me complain about production, but here, it's a shame because it makes me listen to this album far less than the album deserves.
The covers are also very well done.
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I am listening to This Moral Coil this morning and am reminded again how deep and touching the lyrics are, and how complex and beautiful the music is. The only problem I have with the album is that the production makes the album overwhelming and fatiguing to listen to at the appropriately ludicrious volume it calls for. Not sure if it is the mix and just bringing too much of everything to the forefront, if it is the mastering and the fact that it is just mastered too hot and loud, or maybe a combination of both. This is one of the few times you will ever hear me complain about production, but here, it's a shame because it makes me listen to this album far less than the album deserves.
The covers are also very well done.
Yeah, I agree with all of that completely. I was actually going to add to my post that I also don't listen to these albums nearly as much as I'd like to, but when I pull out something like This Mortal Coil, it's hard to imagine music that is really better than it. Still like you said, it's incredible taxing to get through it for some reason.
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As I contemplate the above post, it just struck me that perhaps the above was intentional. I remember reading an interview with Chris DeGarmo a long time ago about the guitar tone, mixing, and mastering choices that went into Operation: Mindcrime. Given the topic, he wanted the overall sonic experience to be jarring, biting, and caustic, because that is actually fitting. There, it worked. We tend to forget how jarring the production is on that album because it came out so long ago that we are used to it. I wonder if perhaps Nick was going for something similar here. It would certainly fit.
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As I recall, Nick had been wanting a certain guy for mixing for a long time, and he finally got him for This Mortal Coil. He liked the way he mixes albums and wanted that same kind of tone for his.
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I think you're talking about Neil Kernon, who I believe mixed the album. He also did Queensryche's Rage for Order back in the day. I was a little unhappy with the mix on This Mortal Coil, but I love the songs. There are some real gems are there, musically and lyrically.
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I think you're talking about Neil Kernon, who I believe mixed the album. He also did Queensryche's Rage for Order back in the day. I was a little unhappy with the mix on This Mortal Coil, but I love the songs. There are some real gems are there, musically and lyrically.
Yeah, I remember TMC being called the modern day Rage For Order. I don't get the comparison though. Either way, he kinda missed the mark mix-wise.
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Yeah, I remember TMC being called the modern day Rage For Order. I don't get the comparison though.
Neither do I. Who the heck would call it that?
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Yeah, I remember TMC being called the modern day Rage For Order. I don't get the comparison though.
Neither do I. Who the heck would call it that?
Probably Neil Kernon.
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Anyhow, listening to these two albums has me sorely lamenting that Nick doesn't devote more attention to the band and make them a full-time pursuit. But then again, I guess if he did, we wouldn't have new Star Wars movies, so... :lol
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Yeah, I remember TMC being called the modern day Rage For Order. I don't get the comparison though.
Neither do I. Who the heck would call it that?
Probably Neil Kernon.
Wow, that would be lame.
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I wonder how Bernie is doing. :(
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Got to watch some of Live From The Pit over the weekend. A few general impressions:
-Given how relatively little these guys play together, they sound pretty tight.
-Given how epic the music is, these guys look pretty disinterested and board onstage. In particular, the keyboard player showed zero enthusiasm or emotional at all, and I have to say that Ray Alder is a good singer, but a decidedly poor front man.
-Love the sentiment behind the brief "Fallen but not forgotten" tribute during Stronger Than Death. The crowd went nuts when they showed Dio. The "cancer is my b*tch" caption also made me chuckle.
Unfortunately, this is something I probably will not watch very often. But the performance was decent, and it is good to have a somewhat current live video of the band, especially given the near impossibility of actually seeing them live since they so rarely play.
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I wonder how Bernie is doing. :(
According to Ray on Facebook, Bernie's slowly getting out of his coma. Unfortunately, it sounds like it's going to be a long recovery process for him though.
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I wonder how Bernie is doing. :(
According to Ray on Facebook, Bernie's slowly getting out of his coma. Unfortunately, it sounds like it's going to be a long recovery process for him though.
That's awful. I guess the positive thing is he is progressing in the right direction slowly.
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I wonder how Bernie is doing. :(
According to Ray on Facebook, Bernie's slowly getting out of his coma. Unfortunately, it sounds like it's going to be a long recovery process for him though.
That's awful. I guess the positive thing is he is progressing in the right direction slowly.
Indeed. Hopefully he'll pull through without any serious issues.
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Not to overlook Bernie's condition, but...
Just listening to some more Redemption this afternoon, and thus wanted to give the band some more props. Listening to The Fullness of Time right now. This was a pretty late acquisition for me (I think I found it late last year). I got into the band with Snowfall, and never went back and got their older stuff. This is a VERY good album. I like it maybe just a shade less than the last two.
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A great album by a great band. Still cannot figure out why I don't rate them higher than I do.
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I know for me, it's mostly their lack of output and the resulting feeling that they are more of a "project" or "hobby" than a "full-fledged band."
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Yeah, maybe.
I think it's something more though. As great as the music is, I still have trouble soaking it in. I've heard the albums many times, but for some reason, it all runs together. I'm probably not making sense because when I'm listening to them, it's actually hard to imagine anything better.
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Fullness of time is a fantastic record. I rate it one of their best.
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I got into the band with This mortal Coil and worked my way back. Fullness of Time eventually became my favourite.
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Damnit I thought this meant that there was a Bernie update. The lack of news has me concerned for him.
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Okay, but some of us actually want to discuss the band's MUSIC.
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I didn't mean to imply you weren't allowed. Like I said, the lack of news is easier to interpret as bad rather than good.
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I didn't mean to imply you weren't allowed. Like I said, the lack of news is easier to interpret as bad rather than good.
That's how I feel as well. I listened to Origins of Ruin at work tonight, and I started wondering about him again as well.
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Yeah, maybe.
I think it's something more though. As great as the music is, I still have trouble soaking it in. I've heard the albums many times, but for some reason, it all runs together. I'm probably not making sense because when I'm listening to them, it's actually hard to imagine anything better.
I have the same problem. Maybe it's because they have a distinctively dense sound or something, but for the longest time, all their songs ran together and if I read through the tracklisting, I'd have trouble remembering which was which. With a couple of their albums that I listen to less than the others, this is still a big problem for me.
But when I'm listening to them...who cares, it's awesome.
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Fullness of Time is my favorite album of theirs, though the three albums that follow are almost as good.
Now, I have yet to listen to the self-titled. What would be the best way to obtain a copy? I cannot find any listings on eBay, and the least expensive Amazon listing is $20-25.
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Snowfall is their only album that gets repeated listens.
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The only two cd's that I have listened to are Snowfall and Mortal Coil. Will have to check out the other cd's. Snowfall is easily in my top 10 cd's of all time.
Hoping that Bernie gets well soon!
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The only two cd's that I have listened to are Snowfall and Mortal Coil. Will have to check out the other cd's. Snowfall is easily in my top 10 cd's of all time.
Hoping that Bernie gets well soon!
Definitely listen to Fullness and Origins. I was in the same situation as you, and then listened to those two. The first half of The Origins of Ruin rivals a good portion of those two records, and The Fullness of Time is hands-down their best.
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You like the band so much that you have an album cover of theirs as your avatar, yet have never listened to Fullness of Time :omg:
Get. That. Album. NAOWWW!
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You like the band so much that you have an album cover of theirs as your avatar, yet have never listened to Fullness of Time :omg:
Get. That. Album. NAOWWW!
Will order today. How can I go wrong with two strong recommendations.
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I'd recommend The Origins of Ruin as well. That album just casts a spell on me and leaves me hypnotized. There have been times when I've just listened to "Memory" over and over for hours.
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Yeah Origin, Fullness and Mortal Coil are the best cd´s for me. But they are all worthwhile listening to.
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Bernie just posted video of himself slowly walking a short distance on Facebook with the following comment:
"This is what brain coaching is doing for me. I'm so close to walking! Might be a little drunk looking but I'm getting closer everyday. I guess the doctors that thought I should stay in a long care nursing facility didn't know the determination of a heavy metal rocker, cause boys and girls I'm rocking on!!!!"
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Wow! Hell yes!! :metal
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His spirit and determintion is incredible.
What was he initial condition or what happened? Anyone know?
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I came to post what mebert posted.
He had an aneurysm eight months ago. It severely damaged his motor skills. The good thing is that particularly for someone his age is that a full or near full recovery is possible in time.
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I can imagine that his ability to play music in the future might be lost. However, that's way down the list of things that matter at this point. This is wonderful news!!!
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I came to post what mebert posted.
He had an aneurysm eight months ago. It severely damaged his motor skills. The good thing is that particularly for someone his age is that a full or near full recovery is possible in time.
That's right. Such a sudden and unfortunate thing to happen. Looks like his determintion can get him through this.
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That's great news!
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My copy of the self titled arrived today. I have not yet listened to the full album (only up to "Window to Space"), and while it is not quite at the level of The Fullness of Time and the three albums that follow it, it is still a good record, and can hold its own. After reading some of the comments about it in this thread, I was expecting it to be much worse than the band's future records, especially in terms of production. But the songs themselves are pretty good, and the production is not nearly as bad as other debut records such as WDADU and Symphony X's s/t. The only major issue I have with it is that the vocals are too low in the mix. The singer here reminds me of WDADU era Charlie Dominici, though I like this guy better.
So, while it is not as good as the band's other records, their s/t is more than solid, and a worthy part of their discography.
As an aside, the disc was around $25 including shipping, which is by far the most I have payed for a standard jewel case edition of any album. I know that it is out of print, but still! That's kind of ridiculous.
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Nick Van Dyk doesn't even like the first album. Nocturnal is the only decent song on it, and the only one they have in their setlists, but I'd prefer they retire it for better songs.
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There are two big problems I have with the album. First is the absolutely awful lyrics (I'm specifically reffering to Desperation IV here, though it is present elsewhere). The other is how some sections are repeated far too many times. For example, Window to Space has many melodies that I like quite a bit, but most of the focus is on a few endlessly repeating, mediocre riffs. These two issues together really hamper my enjoyment of the album.
If my least favorite of their other albums, The Origins of Ruin, was an 8/10, and my favorite, The Fullness of Time, a 10/10, the self titled would be around a 4 or 5 out of 10 (note that, with the way I rate things, I do not actively dislike something until it gets as low as a 2).
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I actually thought it was pretty good when it came out. (knew Nick from the old 'orange' Fates Warning board where he talked about releasing it). The production suffers, though.
The problem is that the ideas aren't really that aweful, but especially Desperation suffers from overlong dragging out and repetetiveness.
Something Wicked This Way Comes I thought was pretty awesome, especially after just having read the book. The problem with turning a book you love into a musical form of art is always a dicy affair. Plus after hearing Ray Alder's voice on one part of the song and being such a fan of Alder, Rick Mythissian really doesn't get the credit he deserves.
Nocturnal was an immediate favourite of mine, and I love the fact they're playing it live.
So it's really not that it's so awefully bad, it's just the fact that everytihing that came AFTER it was so much better...
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I've still never listened to the first album, it's the only one I didn't bother getting.
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I actually thought it was pretty good when it came out. (knew Nick from the old 'orange' Fates Warning board where he talked about releasing it). The production suffers, though.
The problem is that the ideas aren't really that aweful, but especially Desperation suffers from overlong dragging out and repetetiveness.
Something Wicked This Way Comes I thought was pretty awesome, especially after just having read the book. The problem with turning a book you love into a musical form of art is always a dicy affair. Plus after hearing Ray Alder's voice on one part of the song and being such a fan of Alder, Rick Mythissian really doesn't get the credit he deserves.
Nocturnal was an immediate favourite of mine, and I love the fact they're playing it live.
So it's really not that it's so awefully bad, it's just the fact that everytihing that came AFTER it was so much better...
first web board I was a member of. remember Nick from there as well. good times.
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first web board I was a member of. remember Nick from there as well. good times.
Indeed they were my man. Indeed they were.
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I've still never listened to the first album, it's the only one I didn't bother getting.
Nor me, kind of similar to the Symphony X discography.
First album with a different singer, get new singer so much better and that first album is almost the black sheep of the band's back catalogue.
Should these type of albums be re-recorded with the current line up?
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Yes absolutely.
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I've still never listened to the first album, it's the only one I didn't bother getting.
Nor me, kind of similar to the Symphony X discography.
First album with a different singer, get new singer so much better and that first album is almost the black sheep of the band's back catalogue.
Should these type of albums be re-recorded with the current line up?
I am against this. To use your Symphony X example, the band rerecorded a song from their debut, which ended up on the special edition of The Oddyssey. The production on their debut is awful, and the updated version of Masquerade sounds far superior. At the same time, completely rerecording the album would clash with the bands' current outputs. On both Redemption and Symphony X, the songwriting is not nearly as strong as on the albums that followed. It would feel out of place. Also, compared to many debut efforts, Redemption's production is actually comparatively great, with the only major issue being the quiet vocals. So, considering these points, there is little reason for these albums to be rerecorded.
The only slightly convincing argument for rerecording is the possibly of improved vocals. Even then, I do not think that having a better singer on the album is enough to make up for the drawbacks I listed above, especially the one about mediocre songwriting. I would rather have a band release new material that is hopefully on par with, or better than, its later output than for it to waste time rerecording old material.
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I've still never listened to the first album, it's the only one I didn't bother getting.
Nor me, kind of similar to the Symphony X discography.
First album with a different singer, get new singer so much better and that first album is almost the black sheep of the band's back catalogue.
Should these type of albums be re-recorded with the current line up?
I feel they should.
I always thought bands should re-record the albums but add the original album remastered or something as a bonus disc.
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With both bands slow recording output, a new album every 3, 4 or 5 years, I doubt if re-recording their debut's would really affect this ;D
BTW 'Masquerade' was originally re-recorded for the Japan only compilation issued in 1998, called 'Prelude To The Millennium, Essentials Of Symphony'.
Which was basically a best of the first 4 albums, but with only 'Masquerade 98' coming from the debut.
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My version of The Odyssey has that as a bonus track. Such an improvement from the original.
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So does mine, Japan version also has another bonus track in, 'Frontiers'.
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So does mine, Japan version also has another bonus track in, 'Frontiers'.
That version is pretty much impossible to find, and me wants it!
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Never heard of that track.
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So does mine, Japan version also has another bonus track in, 'Frontiers'.
That version is pretty much impossible to find, and me wants it!
Nope not really, got mine from CD Japan for a really good price, US$12.18 plus shipping
https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/VICP-65020
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So does mine, Japan version also has another bonus track in, 'Frontiers'.
Thaty version is pretty much impossible to find, and me wants it!
Nope not really, got mine from CD Japan for a really good price, US$12.18 plus shipping
https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/VICP-65020
How long ago, cause not a month ago they refunded me for not having it in stock. It took them a month just to tell me that too.
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Mine was ordered September last year and shipped soon after.
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I ordered in April of this year and waited a month for them to tell me they were out. Yet they still haven't updated the page. Glad they're on top of things.
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Unusual for CDJ, been ordering from them for many years and never had any issues with them at all.
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News!
https://bravewords.com/news/redemption-featuring-fates-warning-vocalist-ray-adler-complete-new-album-sign-to-metal-blade-records
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Awesome news indeed. Looking forward to this one. It's sad Bernie can't be involved but the main thing is that he is slowy improving. Wonder who the guests will be.
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:metal
Though it's kind of a bittersweet feeling due to Bernie's recovery. Wishing him the best and fast recovery!
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Yeah, but if anything, it reveals that they have spoken to him, and are holding his place in the band.
We have really had no clue as to where he is, but I'm taking out that while his recovery is slow and ongoing, things are continue to improve, and that's great!
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Yes yes yes! So psyched! It's been a long four years between albums and I'm desperately in need of some new Redemption!
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Four years, wow. Time flies.
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Amazing news! 4 years does go fast. To bad about Bernie. This band has some bad luck with health issues.
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I'm curious about the guest guitarist. No disrespect to Bernie of course.
I had totally put new redemption out of my mind and wasnt expecting this. What an awesome surprise.
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This was completely unexpected, but definitely welcome, news. Assuming this comes out in November or some other time before the end of the year, it will likely be my most anticipated album of 2015.
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Finally, I check an update to this thread and there's news of a new album!
I hope Bernie recovers quickly as I'd love to see him return to the band sooner rather than later, but I'm excited for new material nonetheless.
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Sounds like Bernie isn't coming back anytime soon, if ever. I think Nick is just keeping the hope alive, and rightly so.
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Awesome news!
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I'm VERY curious to see who Nick has "guesting" on guitars! Any guesses? Petrucci, perhaps?
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I'm VERY curious to see who Nick has "guesting" on guitars! Any guesses? Petrucci, perhaps?
My guess is Michael Abdow, who has been filling in for Frank Aresti in Fates Warning lately.
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Hmm, I wouldn't guess Abdow. I can't see FW and Redemption sharing TWO band members -- one is enough, lol. My random guess would be Michael Romeo. I just checked the credits from Redemption's first album, which I never really listened to, and I see that SX drummer Jason Rullo played drums and Michael Romeo provided orchestration on four tracks. I honestly never realized that and had no idea there is a friendship between those bands.
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Hmm, I wouldn't guess Abdow. I can't see FW and Redemption sharing TWO band members -- one is enough, lol. My random guess would be Michael Romeo. I just checked the credits from Redemption's first album, which I never really listened to, and I see that SX drummer Jason Rullo played drums and Michael Romeo provided orchestration on four tracks. I honestly never realized that and had no idea there is a friendship between those bands.
My guess would be Romeo but Petrucci can't be discarded since DT and Redemption have toured together and JLB has guested before on one track in Snowfall. Would prefer Romeo since he put on quite a show on the riffing department with Underworld.
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Hmm, I wouldn't guess Abdow. I can't see FW and Redemption sharing TWO band members -- one is enough, lol. My random guess would be Michael Romeo. I just checked the credits from Redemption's first album, which I never really listened to, and I see that SX drummer Jason Rullo played drums and Michael Romeo provided orchestration on four tracks. I honestly never realized that and had no idea there is a friendship between those bands.
I would; Abdow is not a permanent member of FW (yet) and if they are possibly prepping to do a reunion tour with Zonder and Moore for APSOG, then Abdow would likely be free to work with Redemption for awhile, since that album only had Matheos on guitar.
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I guess I didn't realize the connection between Redemption and Symphony X, either. Romeo would be cool! But I mentioned Petrucci because of the connections there. But it could be anyone.
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Had the pleasure of chatting with Nick for a few mins at PPUSA. He was super nice, as expected. Can't wait to a hear a teaser or something soon. Shouldn't be too much longer now!
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straight from Nick himself...
Finally, the scoop on new Redemption, featuring...
...Chris Poland, Marty Friedman, Chris Broderick, Simone Mularoni and John Bush.
It's an embarrassment of riches in terms of special guests. The official release from the label will be out shortly but I have received the okay to let the cat out in a couple of places.
I am excited for (most of) you to hear it! ;)
Redemption to release new album "The Art of Loss" in early 2016 via Metal Blade Records
Redemption's sixth album, The Art of Loss, has been completed and will be released early in 2016 by Metal Blade records. Featuring groundbreaking guest performances from a number of legendary musicians, the CD's nine tracks contain over 70 minutes of Redemption's unique blend of passion, melody, aggression and complexity.
Los Angeles-based Redemption is helmed by Nick van Dyk (guitars, keyboards), and includes renowned prog vocalist Ray Alder (Fates Warning, Engine), bassist Sean Andrews, and drummer Chris Quirarte, as well as guitarist Bernie Versailles, who is presently on an indefinite medical leave of absence from the band.
The band recruited several of the finest guitarists in metal to complement van Dyk's playing. "We're fortunate to have worked with a number of amazing musicians," begins van Dyk. "To start with, I'm extremely proud to announce that Chris Poland has lent his immense talent as a special guest on this record, contributing his unique playing on the majority of the songs and elevating our music into extremely interesting territory while calling to mind his work in his previous bands, who need not be named. Additionally, we are fortunate enough to have mind-blowing guest performances from Marty Friedman, Chris Broderick and Simone Mularoni, all of whom are amazing guitarists who add so much to this record."
In a remarkable and compelling first, the high-octane track "Thirty Silver" features Poland, Friedman and Broderick in the same song - something that will be a special treat for fans of these world-class players.
In addition, Redemption's cover of The Who's classic "Love Reign o'er Me" features a vocal duet between Alder and guest vocalist John Bush. "The combination of Ray's rich melodic voice and John's go-for-broke passion on this track really makes it special," explains van Dyk. "Daltrey's performance on the original is one of the most iconic vocal performances in the history of rock music and John does it great justice."
In addition to the nine tracks featured on the US release, bonus editions will be released in Europe and Japan, each featuring alternate versions of selected songs that highlight the guitar performances of Poland, Friedman, Broderick and Mularoni. In addition, the European release will include an additional cover song (A Great Big World's "Say Something") which features a vocal duet between Alder and van Dyk's daughter Parker, who makes her recording debut after having been the subject of several of Redemption's songs over the years.
The CD was mixed at Jailhouse Studios in Denmark by veteran producer Tommy Hansen (Helloween, Pagan's Mind, Pretty Maids, etc.) who also worked with Redemption on 2009's Snowfall on Judgment Day. The artwork - the band's most extensive to-date - was again created by long-time Redemption collaborator Travis Smith.
See below for the USA track-listing.
Redemption - The Art of Loss track listing
1. The Art of Loss
2. Slouching Towards Bethlehem
3. Damaged
4. Hope Dies Last
5. That Golden Light
6. Thirty Silver
7. The Center of the Fire
8. Love Reign o'er Me
9. At Day's End
Stay tuned for more details about The Art of Loss coming soon!
Redemption online:
https://redemptionweb.com
https://www.facebook.com/RedemptionBand
https://twitter.com/redemptionmetal
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Quite a roster of guest guitarists! I'm particularly excited for this release. I'm also happy they went back to the same producer who worked on Snowfall. That was their best-sounding album, in my opinion.
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Three words.
John Fucking Bush! :metal :metal :metal
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Wow. Poland and Friedman, holy hell.
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Awesomeness!
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Can't wait! Going to an awesome start to 2016 with this and DT! :metal
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HOLY CRAP!!!! This is going to be one HELLUVA record! I can't wait!!!
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Representing the Megadeth coalition of awesomeness: check! :metal :metal :metal
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I'll add Primal Fear and Avantasia to the 2016 love too
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Couldn't care less about guest guitarists (although the fact that the effort to utilize them means something)... But OMG I am so excited for this album. The album name and tracklist have me so excited. I can't decide between this and new DT for most anticipated 2016 release honestly. I even am extremely curious on how the Who cover will turn out.
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Nick posted this on the PM board:
Re: bonus tracks, for whatever reason, it is still important to non-US territories to have special material.
With over 70 minutes of (high-quality, I sure hope!) music on the US release, I don't think anybody anywhere is going to feel cheated. Smile
As to the guest performances, here's an example. I gave the title track to both Chris Poland and Simone Mularoni to record solos over. They both played great versions. The finished version on the CD has an opening solo split between them, the main solo split between me and Simone, and the outro solo by Chris. I think it sounds great, and that's why it's the definitive version on the US CD. However, those who are fans of Messrs. Poland and Mularoni might want to hear the versions that they individually recorded, so those are being made available as bonus material.
Makes sense, I hope!
To be honest I think this is at least on par with our best work if not superior to it. I think the best things I have written are Sapphire and Black & White World, and I'm not sure there is anything here that eclipses those -- but coming from somebody who is always sick to death of listening to his own stuff by the time it is mastered, I can tell you this record has more staying power with me, personally than anything I've done. I like every song -- a lot. There is one piece, At Day's End, which is over 22 minutes long so compositionally, it is at least as ambitious as anything we've done.
Lastly, I wanted a return in production sound to what we had on Snowfall, and that's what we got -- except that I think Ray sounds stronger here than on that record and both his vocals and the solos sit a little more prominently in the mix.
Fans of Redemption, I think and hope, should love this. Smile
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Lastly, I wanted a return in production sound to what we had on Snowfall, and that's what we got -- except that I think Ray sounds stronger here than on that record and both his vocals and the solos sit a little more prominently in the mix.
Oh hell yes!
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I must say, with last two records, Redemption is epitome of progressive metal for me. I know they won't dissappoint with upcoming release :metal
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If it sounds more like Snowfall, I'm super excited. I was somewhat disappointed by the mix on the last album, as were a lot of people. Still a good album, but nowhere near Snowfall. Sounds like Nick has high expectations for this one! I do, too!!
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Here is hoping he is right about the epic track. I lose interest in most songs over 20 minutes. I still want the bonus tracks.
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Black and White World is my favorite as well.
This makes me excited.
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Nick posted this on the PM board:
Re: bonus tracks, for whatever reason, it is still important to non-US territories to have special material.
With over 70 minutes of (high-quality, I sure hope!) music on the US release, I don't think anybody anywhere is going to feel cheated. Smile
As to the guest performances, here's an example. I gave the title track to both Chris Poland and Simone Mularoni to record solos over. They both played great versions. The finished version on the CD has an opening solo split between them, the main solo split between me and Simone, and the outro solo by Chris. I think it sounds great, and that's why it's the definitive version on the US CD. However, those who are fans of Messrs. Poland and Mularoni might want to hear the versions that they individually recorded, so those are being made available as bonus material.
Makes sense, I hope!
To be honest I think this is at least on par with our best work if not superior to it. I think the best things I have written are Sapphire and Black & White World, and I'm not sure there is anything here that eclipses those -- but coming from somebody who is always sick to death of listening to his own stuff by the time it is mastered, I can tell you this record has more staying power with me, personally than anything I've done. I like every song -- a lot. There is one piece, At Day's End, which is over 22 minutes long so compositionally, it is at least as ambitious as anything we've done.
Lastly, I wanted a return in production sound to what we had on Snowfall, and that's what we got -- except that I think Ray sounds stronger here than on that record and both his vocals and the solos sit a little more prominently in the mix.
Fans of Redemption, I think and hope, should love this. Smile
Sounds good to me! Can't wait for this album! :metal
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Black and White World is my favorite as well.
AMEN!! Black and White World is the ultimate Redemption song. I can't get enough of it. EVER.
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I wish we can get a remix and/or remaster of This Mortal Coil. There's some great stuff there marred by the bad sound.
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I wish we can get a remix and/or remaster of This Mortal Coil. There's some great stuff there marred by the bad sound.
Someone on this forum noted that the sound on Mortal Coil was on purpose, Nick wanted it to sound that way.
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I wish we can get a remix and/or remaster of This Mortal Coil. There's some great stuff there marred by the bad sound.
Someone on this forum noted that the sound on Mortal Coil was on purpose, Nick wanted it to sound that way.
Yes, I read that somewhere as well but severa people (including me) have brought up the sonic issues.
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It definitely doesn't sound anywhere near as good as Snowfall, but I had no real issues with the sound.
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Initially, Ray was quite buried in the mix of TMC, but after several listens, he got louder. That doesn't make any sense, but it happened for me.
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Initially, Ray was quite buried in the mix of TMC, but after several listens, he got louder. That doesn't make any sense, but it happened for me.
I think I might know what you are getting at.
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There have been a lot amazing 3 album spans by many bands but the run of The Fullness of Time- Origins of Ruin- and Snowfall on Judgement Day is just perfect. I really don't understand how this band isn't bigger than they are. Progessive Metal at it's best.
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There have been a lot amazing 3 album spans by many bands but the run of The Fullness of Time- Origins of Ruin- and Snowfall on Judgement Day is just perfect. I really don't understand how this band isn't bigger than they are. Progessive Metal at it's best.
No promotion. And Nick seems content with that. As good as the band is, it is clear that it is still more of less a "hobby" (for lack of a better term) for him, given that he is a full-time exec. for a HUGE corporation. Dream Theater got lucky to be as big as they are given the lack of promotion in the early days. That isn't typical. I wish these guys were a lot bigger than they are, but they never really pushed for it. And despite the continuing quality music, I think they missed their window even if they were to hypothetically want to change course and be huge now.
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There have been a lot amazing 3 album spans by many bands but the run of The Fullness of Time- Origins of Ruin- and Snowfall on Judgement Day is just perfect. I really don't understand how this band isn't bigger than they are. Progessive Metal at it's best.
+1
Nick's heartfelt lyrics plus Alder's perfect vocal execution (as far as emotion goes) takes these albums to a whole different level.
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Looking forward to the new cd :metal 2016 is going to be a great year for music
DT, Redemption, Steven Wilson, Haken and possibly Beardfish
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Looking forward to the new cd :metal 2016 is going to be a great year for music
DT, Redemption, Steven Wilson, Haken and possibly Beardfish
And Fates Warning! :)
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When is this released? Wasn't it January or something, or maybe I'm mixed up.
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Facebook says 'early 2016'.
I looked on Metal Blade's site and not a thing on the band.
Nothing under their artists either, which is a little concerning.
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Probably mid 2016 then going by that. :-[
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There have been a lot amazing 3 album spans by many bands but the run of The Fullness of Time- Origins of Ruin- and Snowfall on Judgement Day is just perfect. I really don't understand how this band isn't bigger than they are. Progessive Metal at it's best.
No promotion. And Nick seems content with that. As good as the band is, it is clear that it is still more of less a "hobby" (for lack of a better term) for him, given that he is a full-time exec. for a HUGE corporation. Dream Theater got lucky to be as big as they are given the lack of promotion in the early days. That isn't typical. I wish these guys were a lot bigger than they are, but they never really pushed for it. And despite the continuing quality music, I think they missed their window even if they were to hypothetically want to change course and be huge now.
This is exactly right, I believe. My guess is Nick makes a good living at his day job and probably doesn't want to give up the lifestyle it affords him for music. I don't blame him. I'd love to be a professional musician or even work in a recording studio, but there was just no way for me to do it and have the kind of lifestyle I want to have. If I had my choice, I'd be at home in my studio right now sitting in front of my new Yamaha P115 electric piano composing new music. But that doesn't pay the bills, unfortunately.
Getting back to the sound of This Mortal Coil, I think I remember chatting with Nick right here on this forum a while back and he mentioned that they were going for a really dark sound on that album, which is why he used the 7-string on several tracks. I have to be honest and admit that I prefer the sound of the two that came before it, but the music on all 3 discs is equally good, I think.
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Getting back to the sound of This Mortal Coil, I think I remember chatting with Nick right here on this forum a while back and he mentioned that they were going for a really dark sound on that album, which is why he used the 7-string on several tracks. I have to be honest and admit that I prefer the sound of the two that came before it, but the music on all 3 discs is equally good, I think.
I completely agree.
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Facebook says 'early 2016'.
I looked on Metal Blade's site and not a thing on the band.
Nothing under their artists either, which is a little concerning.
My group put out an album in 2011 on the 10t label. We were supposed to release a 2nd album through them by 2013. I've got the music written and demoed but I haven't had any time to do it and I also need a window of opportunity for Ryo to be available to track the keys. Anyway, the point is, when you have a band going but it's not your full-time job, it's pretty easy for everyday life to get in the way of putting out new material.
And as far as "promotion" goes, for bands that are not working with a major label (InsideOut is not a major label) the only promotion you're likely to get from the label itself is ads on the label's website and posts around the internet on the music web sites, blogs and social media sites that cater to fans of the style of music on your album. You might get a few banner ads on sites partnered with your label, but that's about it. The rest is up to the band. You ever try promoting a Progrock album? :lol
It's like trying to sell ice cubes to Eskimos these days. There are a million and three artists out there in the same genre you're in, many of whom have some absolutely killer-sounding albums to pimp and you're going to have to walk among that crowd like the 12-year-old kid trying to get some attention in a room full of 18-year-old teenagers. Nobody knows who Redemption is nor are they ever going to know who Redemption is because there isn't now, nor is there likely to ever be, an organized, professional marketing campaign to sell any of their music.
It just is what it is. I think all we can do as fans is buy the albums when they are released, go to the shows when they come around (if they come around) and buy a shirt or a poster or something on their web site or at the merchandise stand at their show.
Sorry, that turned into something way longer than I originally intended. :biggrin:
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Promotion or no promotion, at the very least you would think that the band's name might actually appear on the label's website.
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New song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwZ5FdxHYk)
I'll give it a more thorough listen later, though my first impressions are positive.
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New song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwZ5FdxHYk)
I'll give it a more thorough listen later, though my first impressions are positive.
Song is cool, I think it got better as it went on. The cover art for the album is surprisingly minimalist considering the art for some of their previous albums.
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Only heard the first half through my phone but I thought Ray sounded great.
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I like. It doesn't immediately grab me as much as some of the stuff from the past two albums, but still pretty solid.
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Love on first listen for me :metal
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It's not too bad, but it's another Redemption song that seems to have no real chorus, with the chorus sounding just like another verse.
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Good song... Good song.
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I find a lot of Redemption stuff tiring to listen to - often seems like there's something missing - but this is definitely more up my alley than much of their material. Looking forward to the release.
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It's not too bad, but it's another Redemption song that seems to have no real chorus, with the chorus sounding just like another verse.
Yeah, I find the vocal melodies a little weak on this one. Ray's voice sounds great, though!
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Less heavy and more commercial sounding, but that's fine with me and I really like the song. Terrific solos too.
The first section of the chorus reminds me of Between the Wheels also.
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I'm actually more excited to hear this 23-minute epic. That, and the Who cover of "Love Reign O'er Me". Should be a great album!
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Less heavy and more commercial sounding, but that's fine with me and I really like the song. Terrific solos too.
The first section of the chorus reminds me of Between the Wheels also.
Nick has commented that this is the most accessible track on the album.
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I really liked this song on first listen. Loved the lyrics. Redemption tends to have my favorite lyrics from any band.
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I really liked this song on first listen. Loved the lyrics. Redemption tends to have my favorite lyrics from any band.
Yeah, they are consistently VERY good. I have to say the same about their song titles and album titles as well. More often than not, I won't be grabbed or pulled in simply by song titles. But I was immediately more than intrigued by the song titles from this album.
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Are we still waiting for the release date to be announced, or did I miss it?
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I've seen Feb. 26th some places, so that's what I'm going with for now, but who knows until the band says for sure.
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Feb 26th according to their record label Metal Blade
https://www.indiemerch.com/metalbladerecords/item/38485
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I pre ordered on Best Buy and feb 26 was the expected date. Origins of ruin has some good songs. For 7.99 on iTunes, may have to purchase. Is the first cd good?
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The first album is good; it's a shame that there's only three songs, though. :biggrin:
I have it mostly to complete my collection. It is nowhere near the level of their later albums.
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Feb 26 on Amazon UK, EMP and numerous other sites.
Still waiting for the Japan release date though...
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nvm. it was posted already
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Feb 26 on Amazon UK, EMP and numerous other sites.
Still waiting for the Japan release date though...
Do you know if there's going to be a bonus track in the Japanese release?
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Yes according to NVD.
He posted this on the PM-X Board;
The Japanese version will have a bit more Marty stuff than the other versions (he is extra popular in Japan). The European version has the cover song with my daughter on it plus a few more Poland and Broderick bonus tracks.
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Sounds like it might be worth the extra cash.
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I freaking despise bonus tracks. >:(
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I freaking despise bonus tracks. >:(
Sometimes a bonus track is better than some of the songs on the main track list. It happens, but it's rare. But it happens. But it's rare...
I love Damaged. I think it's better than the new tunes put out by Dream Theater and Circus Maximus. It's also a dollar on Bandcamp if you guys would like a CD quality version.
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I'm really looking forward to this album actually.
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Shit. I need to track both the European and Japanese editions.
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https://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/02/01/exclusive-premiere-stream-a-new-single-from-prog-metallers-redemption/
new track
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That was the best Megadeth song I've heard in years.
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That was the best Megadeth song I've heard in years.
Seriously, this sounds like Rust in Peace-era Megadeth, with Ray Alder on vocals and background synths. Me likey. :hat
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Wow, you guys aren't kidding! Total Megadeth vibe. I REALLY love the album cover. So simple, yet powerful.
I wonder how Bernie is doing. I feel like we haven't heard anything in a while.
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I pre-ordered the new cd from best buy. I just bought Origins of Ruin and that cd rocks. :metal
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Sounds like Redemption to me, fucking killer!
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Damaged was good, but I like Thirty Silver a lot more.
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I like Damaged more, but both songs are awesome. Looking forward to this release big time. I think the album cover is great. Sometimes, the simpler the better which is the case here.
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Music video just posted for the title track "The Art of Loss": https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLy8LfIp6j3aKEfspFboYcZHXSpgaLE6yM&v=8YOCTiaDJzk
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Music cideo just posted for the title track "The Art of Loss": https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLy8LfIp6j3aKEfspFboYcZHXSpgaLE6yM&v=8YOCTiaDJzk
I don't care for the "happy ending" line, but the rest was OK.
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Damn, cool they got Poland for the clip. I really like it, great solos too.
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I don't like this song as much as Thirty Silver, but its still pretty good. This album has a lot of potential, and may even dethrone The Fullness of Time.
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Damn, Poland... so great
Always had a soft spot for Redemption after seeing them open for DT on the SC tour
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I don't like this song as much as Thirty Silver, but its still pretty good. This album has a lot of potential, and may even dethrone The Fullness of Time.
Haven't heard a note but that is some high praise. Looking forward to next Friday. :metal
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Don't really like any of the songs so far. :-[ They're just not original at all. Still looking forward to the album though.
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I ordered the cd+t-shirt combo and already got the shipping confirmation in my email. That was quick.
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So excited for the new album! I discovered Redemption sometime after This Mortal Coil was released, so this is my first fresh album release. I've listened to Damaged several times but the other new ones just once (mainly to keep release day as cool as possible).
I'll probably wait and buy on amazon on Friday. I want the physical cd so I hope they have a thing to download immediately when you order the disc. If not, I'll probably just buy the mp3.
Awesome year for music with new DT and Redemption.
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My album arrived a day early; I can't wait to give this a listen.
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The full album is streaming on Soundcloud if anyone wants to listen - link (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/redemption-entire-the-art-of-loss-album-available-for-streaming/).
:metal
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Mine is being shipped from Best Buy. :metal I like what I have heard, but 20 + minute tracks are normally hit or miss.
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I finished my first listen, and, overall, my impressions are positive. Most of it has yet to stick, but I am not worried; Redemption albums have always taken numerous listens to digest. My initial favorites are Slouching Towards Bethlehem and The Center of the Fire.
The epic was pretty good; it's too early to comment on its cohesiveness, but there are a bunch of memorable sections, and it has the emotionally powerful sort of ending every Redemption album since Fullness has displayed.
I'm not yet sure how it compares to the previous four albums, but I would not be surprised if this makes my top 2. I can definitely say, though, that The Art of Loss has the best leads of any Redemption record to date.
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Yeah, I have the feeling the leads are definitely going to be a big highlight throughout.
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Currently on my first listen. The string of songs from Hope Dies Last to The Center of the Fire is astoundingly brilliant. The beginning of the album is slightly below that in quality, at least on first listen.
Looking forward to the epic.
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Good time for this album to come out. I have a long road trip scheduled tomorrow.
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So I just finished my second listen.
So far, I am absolutely loving this album. All the shorter songs are great (though I'm not the hugest fan of the The Who cover), and every individual part of the epic is too, I'm just not too sold on some of its transitions. It might improve on future listens, but either way, I'm extremely happy with this album. A big step up from This Mortal Coil, in my opinion - that one had a few really great songs like Noonday Devil or Dreams from the Pit, but also quite a few songs that I didn't like all that much (Perfect, Begin Again and Focus, mainly).
EDIT: Also, I should mention that I absolutely love the cover. Probably my favourite of their album arts.
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A big step up from This Mortal Coil, in my opinion - that one had a few really great songs like Noonday Devil or Dreams from the Pit, but also quite a few songs that I didn't like all that much (Perfect, Begin Again and Focus, mainly).
Wow, really? Not saying your feelings toward This Mortal Coil aren't legit. I am just surprised at your reaction because (1) I can't remember ever seeing the album criticized, other than production/sound (which is a criticism I share); and (2) the songs you mention not liking are some of my favorites. Oh well. :dunno:
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It's been a while since my last listen, so maybe that has changed, but I found the album to be pretty lackluster around that stretch of songs, even though it opens and closes very strongly.
Also the sound doesn't help, you're right about that, but I'm generally not too bothered about production (unless it's really good or really really bad, chances are that I won't even notice it, and even then, the impact it has on my enjoyment is pretty slim in almost all cases). The Art of Loss does sound notably better though.
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Yeah, production generally does not bother me much either unless it is extreme. Some of the few examples I cite are And Justice For All (different from the other examples, as the problem with this one is, obviously, just the fact that it is very flat), Death Magnetic (brickwalled and loud to the point it is fatiguing to listen to), Queensryche (the recent self-titled; brickwalled and loud, but significantly less so than Death Magnetic or This Mortal Coil, to the point where I notice it only occasionally), and This Mortal Coil (brickwalled and loud to the point where it sometimes interferes with my enjoyment of the album).
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I was very critical of This Mortal Coil, but even upon first listen I still enjoyed the songs. I was just very nitpicky. Eventually it grew on me, and I love it now. Besides Damaged, The Art of Loss didn't do much for me at all.
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I've heard the first couple of songs and thought they sounded pretty good.
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Wow, just wow.... My expectations for this album have totally been exceeded. I can see this having the potential of becoming my favorite Redemption album, but obviously only time will tell, I need many more listens to determine. I'm pretty sure I like it better than Snowfall and Mortal Coil, but Origins of Ruin is hard to beat (not ignoring the other two, just comparing the new only to my other favorites).
Upon just a couple of listens, so first impressions only, my fav songs so far are Thirty Silver, That Golden Light, and Slouching Towards Bethlehem. That Golden Light, in particular, hit some kind of nerve in me and moves me like no song has moved me in a very long time. Can't wait to hear again and again.
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I've given the album a few more spins, and it hasn't clicked as much as I would have liked. I'm still not worried, as I didn't like the first half of Snowfall or even Sapphires the first few times I heard them.
Right now, my ranking is as follows:
The Fullness of Time
This Mortal Coil
Snowfall on Judgement Day
The Art of Loss
The Origins of Ruin
Redemption
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Listened for the second time today. "Thirty Silver," wow. What a song. What a chorus. I'll be singing that for days!
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Just finished my first listen and I'm underwhelmed. Something just seems off compared to their other albums. Sounds like there is more filler than on a usual Redemption album. We'll see it if it grows over the next few listens.
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Awesome cd. And I for one love that cover version.
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The production is great. Ray sounds great. The melodies just aren't there. This really doesn't sound like a Redemption album. Damaged, Thirty Silver and That Golden Light are great, but nothing else really does anything for me.
I was very critical of This Mortal Coil, but even so, I did enjoy all the songs, and the album really grew on me. The Art of Loss just isn't doing it at all.
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The production is great. Ray sounds great. The melodies just aren't there. This really doesn't sound like a Redemption album. Damaged, Thirty Silver and That Golden Light are great, but nothing else really does anything for me.
I was very critical of This Mortal Coil, but even so, I did enjoy all the songs, and the album really grew on me. The Art of Loss just isn't doing it at all.
Just finished listen number 2, and this is where I'm leaning. I'll say I also enjoy the epic, but you hit nail on the head in regards to lack of melodies. Don't love the production. Better than TMC but not as good as previous albums. Also, a lot of the songs sound like rehashed versions of other better songs from their previous albums. Not sure if this is due to Bernie's absence or if Nick is just starting to run out of ideas. I'll give it a couple of more spins before I move on.
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My only critique of the album at this early stage is that I'd love for them to throw in an acoustic tune to let the album "breathe," for lack of a better word. I felt the same way about This Mortal Coil, although that album had "Let It Rain." Other than that, I still need more time to sink my teeth into the album.
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I listened to the album on a drive on Friday, and I was really disappointed. I loved the last two albums immensely. But this one just leaves me cold. Every song felt like it had some good parts, but then just ultimately fell flat and ended up feeling incoherent by the end, with the exception of 30 Silver and the cover song. A big part of it to me was Ray. His vocal melodies felt uninspired and uninteresting, his delivery felt flat and lacked passion, and he often seemed to be off key. I am most decidedly NOT a fan of John Bush. But he at least delivered a vocal performance on the cover that was the polar opposite of what Ray delivered on the album. I'm not really sure what the deal is with this one, but it didn't do it for me at all. This band has been so consistently good that I am not willing to write of the album so quickly. Maybe I just wasn't in the right headspace when I heard it. I dunno. But I was definitely disappointed.
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I'm seeing a lot of negativity here, and I can't quite understand that, because I love this album immensely. Even the epic, which I found pretty disjointed initially has grow on me. While I do think that it starts out a little slowly (the title track is brilliant, but I'm not a big fan of Slouching Towards Bethlehem and Damaged, though both are still good), the run of songs from Hope Dies Last to The Center of the Fire is basically perfect.
Big :metal for the band for such a great album!
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Just finished listen 4.
Easily my least favorite Redemption album. I removed the 3 7 minute songs (bethlaham, hope dies last, and fire...) as they just didn't click with me. The rest of the songs are good but the only true gem for me is That Golden Light. The rest are okay, but nothing new or fresh. Honestly, I think they peaked with Snowfall on Judgement Day.
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I listened to the album on a drive on Friday, and I was really disappointed. I loved the last two albums immensely. But this one just leaves me cold. Every song felt like it had some good parts, but then just ultimately fell flat and ended up feeling incoherent by the end, with the exception of 30 Silver and the cover song. A big part of it to me was Ray. His vocal melodies felt uninspired and uninteresting, his delivery felt flat and lacked passion, and he often seemed to be off key. I am most decidedly NOT a fan of John Bush. But he at least delivered a vocal performance on the cover that was the polar opposite of what Ray delivered on the album. I'm not really sure what the deal is with this one, but it didn't do it for me at all. This band has been so consistently good that I am not willing to write of the album so quickly. Maybe I just wasn't in the right headspace when I heard it. I dunno. But I was definitely disappointed.
That's what I forgot to add. Although Ray sounds great voice wise, his vocal melodies and delivery are BLAH.
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I'm seeing a lot of negativity here, and I can't quite understand that, because I love this album immensely.
I dunno, Scrop. I really want to love this album. I love the last two albums, and I had really high hopes for this one. Heck, the song titles alone are some of the most interesting song titles I have ever seen. But when I listened to it, I just could not get into it. Not sure why. I am hoping my opinion changes.
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Two listens in and I have some mixed feelings about it to. Bosk, as you say, the first thing that came to mind was how bland Ray sounded. I don't know if it's him, the vocal melodies, or maybe the lyrics.
As per the lyrics, I don't want to disparage them completely because you can tell how intensely personal these are to Nick, but man, I feel I've heard all of these songs before lyrically. They are so emo and sappy. So much boo hoo hooing.
The last track is awesome, musically One of my favorite things they've done.
The other thing about this album is that there seems to be a little more straightforwardness in the music. Maybe it has caught people off guard a little.
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This album sure has a lot of recycled melodies. I wonder if it's intentional.
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This album sure has a lot of recycled melodies. I wonder if it's intentional.
It's been that way for several albums, more so with the riffs. I've been able to look passed it though because the songs were so good.
Your name is amazing.
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What is Slouching Toward Jerusalem about? I have read the lyrics a few times, and still have no clue.
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What is Slouching Toward Jerusalem about? I have read the lyrics a few times, and still have no clue.
Might have to do with this Yeats' poem, which parallels some of the lyrics and ends with the phrase "Slouching toward Bethlehem."
Poem link: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/172062
And here's an analysis of that poem, which I found on another website.
Analysis link: https://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/yeats/section5.rhtml
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I'm seeing a lot of negativity here, and I can't quite understand that, because I love this album immensely. Even the epic, which I found pretty disjointed initially has grow on me. While I do think that it starts out a little slowly (the title track is brilliant, but I'm not a big fan of Slouching Towards Bethlehem and Damaged, though both are still good), the run of songs from Hope Dies Last to The Center of the Fire is basically perfect.
Big :metal for the band for such a great album!
I'm with you on loving the album. I can't stop listening to it. The only songs I'm lukewarm to are the title track, and Hope Dies Last. They're still good, just not as good as the rest. The rest of the album is killer.
Side note: some people were talking about the lyrics. Random unrelated short rant... I think it's annoying that if you buy a complete album MP3 on amazon that it rarely includes the digital booklet. Why wouldn't it always? It wouldn't cost anybody anything!!!! But buying the album (physical copy) versus buying the Mp3 after shipping would be nearly double the cost, so I went the Mp3 route.
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Side note: some people were talking about the lyrics. Random unrelated short rant... I think it's annoying that if you buy a complete album MP3 on amazon that it rarely includes the digital booklet. Why wouldn't it always? It wouldn't cost anybody anything!!!! But buying the album (physical copy) versus buying the Mp3 after shipping would be nearly double the cost, so I went the Mp3 route.
:clap:
I'm with you completely. I have no idea why there cannot be a digital booklet. Actually the last WASP album came with one. I'm probably buying Amazon mp3's 50% of the time now.
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FYI, just noticed that Nick posted this on Coverkiller Nation's YouTube review about the meaning of "Slouching Towards Bethlehem":
"For what it's worth, Slouching Towards Bethlehem is based on the Yeats poem "The Second Coming" which was about the horrors of the world Post WW1. Things haven't gotten much better since then, sadly. And "Thirty Silver" does indeed invoke the biblical story of Judas as a powerful visual metaphor of betrayal. There's no particular spiritual bent to either song, although there is an undercurrent of positivity beneath the melancholy which I think is one of our hallmarks."
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp8q4SZ7NWQ
Also, on a separate note, there seems to be a two-disc version of the album available with four bonus tracks? It wasn't aware of that.
Link: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Loss-Redemption/dp/B01AISRWX6/ref=tmm_acd_title_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1456856102&sr=1-1
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There's nothing that special on CD2.
Two more versions of Thirty Silver and one more of the title track and a ballad.
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Probably not worth it considering the price either.
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I have it on order...3 remixes and a bonus track...meh...
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This album is a grower. Each listen gets better than the previous one.
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The mix/sound is perfect. I do agree I've heard better songs from them with more emotional depth, but I really like Hope dies last, That golden light, and Thirty silver. The epic's cool as well.
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This album is a grower. Each listen gets better than the previous one.
I've been thinking the same thing. With every listen I find myself appreciating each song more and more. Right now, I'm totally obsessed with "The Center of the Fire." It reminds me of DT's "The Ministry of Lost Souls" a little bit, tempo-wise and stuff.
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It reminds me of DT's "The Ministry of Lost Souls"
That seals it. I will never like this album.
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Also, this album doesn't feel like it's mixed in your face.
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Yeah, this album has gotten a lot better over the last few listens. My favorite track at this point is either Damaged or Thirty Silver.
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Would anybody be interested in a Redemption survivor? By the time we got to their latest, everyone would probably be familiar enough with it, and I'd be interested to coronate DTF's favourite Redemption song.
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I'd be game!
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I know that I was the one to suggest it, but it just occurred to me that for that to happen, I'd have to listen to their debut again.
Ugh.
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That would be fun! It's gonna be hard to pick one Redemption song over another though. There are so many killer tunes.
FYI, I'm a big user of ProgArchives's album rankings in helping me choose what to buy when exploring new bands. I know it's early, but The Art of Loss currently has a higher ranking than any of Redemption's previous albums -- albeit, only a dozen votes or so, compared to 100 votes for their other albums. Time will tell if that holds up. Link: https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1937#discography
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The album is starting to sound a little better.
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Would anybody be interested in a Redemption survivor? By the time we got to their latest, everyone would probably be familiar enough with it, and I'd be interested to coronate DTF's favourite Redemption song.
I'd be down. Can't wait to see Sapphire's coronation.
I know that I was the one to suggest it, but it just occurred to me that for that to happen, I'd have to listen to their debut again.
Ugh.
Debut album is awesome...... currently my 3rd favorite Redemption album.
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Debut album is awesome...... currently my 3rd favorite Redemption album.
W-what?
I can safely say that I've never heard that one before. I have to ask: what are the three albums you rank below the debut?
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Debut album is awesome...... currently my 3rd favorite Redemption album.
W-what?
I can safely say that I've never heard that one before. I have to ask: what are the three albums you rank below the debut?
Snowfall and Mortal Coil. Not ready to rank the new one yet.
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Those are words I never thought I'd hear. I'm in the boat that the self titled is better than most people make it out to be, but to say it is better than Snowfall is crazy talk.
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The Art of Loss is a grower for me. The epic still has not clicked for me as a whole, but has some nice sections.
Thirty Silver :metal - Cast your silver in the field and measure out your noose.
I would like to hear the first cd, but need to find it on youtube to listen to before purchasing.
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Okay, so the first round of the survivor will be up tomorrow.
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Those are words I never thought I'd hear. I'm in the boat that the self titled is better than most people make it out to be, but to say it is better than Snowfall is crazy talk.
Too me, every track on the s/t is memorable, laced with a few masterpieces.
Snowfall has one great song, a handful of good songs and some pretty forgettable songs. And I like Snowfall even more than Coil. Hopefully, Art of Loss bucks the trend (for me).
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So I relistened to the debut.
Desperation and Window to Space were better than I remembered, the rest was utterly forgettable. I don't think I could sing a single passage from any of the other three songs.
By the way: do you guys want to have Desperation and The Fullness of Time as one song or as four songs each? I'd prefer the first option, but I'm down with either option.
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So I relistened to the debut.
Desperation and Window to Space were better than I remembered, the rest was utterly forgettable. I don't think I could sing a single passage from any of the other three songs.
By the way: do you guys want to have Desperation and The Fullness of Time as one song or as four songs each? I'd prefer the first option, but I'm down with either option.
I'd consider TFoT one song, but not Desperation, it has a few movements with complete silences in between.
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Okay...setting a few things straight.
The debut is my least favorite by far and sits in our discography the way the first Symphony X record does in that band's discography. Except it's not as good -- with all due respect and sincere thanks to those who like it, of course! ;)
TFOT is four songs.
Desperation is one song in four parts but could be separated if anybody cares.
One may of course have issues with any of the performances on the Art of Loss, but Ray is not out of key. Definitively.
Always interesting to see how records are received. This one is generating more controversy than I thought it would, to be honest with you...
Carry on, friends. And as always, thanks for your interest!
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About the double disc version of Art of loss: The remixes are actually pretty different in sound from the album version. One features a vocal harmony track and another features a definetely different keyboard lead line in favor of the guitar lines. A nice extre, but not a necessity. The ballad is actually a duet with a female vocalist that´s not noted on the cover info, at least that I found yet.
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Okay...setting a few things straight.
The debut is my least favorite by far and sits in our discography the way the first Symphony X record does in that band's discography. Except it's not as good -- with all due respect and sincere thanks to those who like it, of course! ;)
TFOT is four songs.
Desperation is one song in four parts but could be separated if anybody cares.
One may of course have issues with any of the performances on the Art of Loss, but Ray is not out of key. Definitively.
Always interesting to see how records are received. This one is generating more controversy than I thought it would, to be honest with you...
Carry on, friends. And as always, thanks for your interest!
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Okay...setting a few things straight.
The debut is my least favorite by far and sits in our discography the way the first Symphony X record does in that band's discography. Except it's not as good -- with all due respect and sincere thanks to those who like it, of course! ;)
TFOT is four songs.
Desperation is one song in four parts but could be separated if anybody cares.
One may of course have issues with any of the performances on the Art of Loss, but Ray is not out of key. Definitively.
Always interesting to see how records are received. This one is generating more controversy than I thought it would, to be honest with you...
Carry on, friends. And as always, thanks for your interest!
:lol :lol
Thanks for the facts, Nick!
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Man, I really like the debut album. In fact, it is the sole reason I became a huge King fan and spent 5 years reading all of his books. I owe that album a lot.
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Now that I've had the new disc for a full week and I've listened well over a dozen times, I can safely say that all of the tracks are clicking with me now. "At Day's End" took the longest to full click, probably because of the length. Still, "Center of the Fire" remains my favorite. That chorus is engrained in my head. And the lyrics really connect with me. Kudos to Nick for visiting here too. I definitely think it would be hard for me to read fan feedback if I were a musician!
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@Kaos2900, glad you enjoy the debut. I agree that the book on which Desperation is based is pretty powerful writing -- it did inspire the lyrics, after all. :) I just think that lyrically that whole record (with the exception of the songs I didn't write -- Window and Nocturnal) is very linear storytelling and kinda sophomoric. And I'm not crazy about the production other than in a few parts. And I think I got better at songwriting. And, and, and. :) But seriously, thanks to you and to any others that enjoy that record. Had it not been received reasonably well, we wouldn't be here. :)
On the bonus tracks, since the disc itself is over 70 minutes, I don't really feel like we're short-changing anybody. The guitarists put a lot of work into their performances so I thought it would be an appropriate way for their music to be heard. There are reasons that the Japanese pressing is what it is; the additional track on the European disc features my daughter Parker singing a cover song (Say Something by…gosh I'm not sure off the top of my head but do a youtube search with that name and Christina Aguilera) as a duet with Ray.
@Mebert78, yeah, it's not the easiest thing to read feedback but thankfully the favorable opinions outnumber the unfavorable ones. :) Dream Theater's audience has a pretty high bar, so I know if we have even a reasonable percentage of positive perspectives among their fan base, we're doing something right! :)
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I didn't spin the newest enough times to rank it among other albums but at the moment Slouching Towards Bethlehem is my favourite song on the album.
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Nick, thank you for popping in and listening to some people's criticisms so professionally. I personally enjoy The Art of Loss, but it has been more of a grower than instant hit for me. Nothing wrong with that. I just chalked it up to life not taking a sledgehammer to your life in the time between This Mortal Coil and Art of Loss, which is probably for the best in the end.
But really, the fact that people are critical just shows how much people here do care and enjoy what you make.
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Thanks for explaining, Nick, Parker did a great job!
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Hey Nick, thanks for dropping in clarifying a few things.
For you other fine folks (though Nick, you're welcome to participate, I guess :P ), the Redemption Survivor has now officially begun.
Click here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=46307.0) for the main thread, and here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=46308.0) for the first round of voting.
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@Kaos2900, glad you enjoy the debut. I agree that the book on which Desperation is based is pretty powerful writing -- it did inspire the lyrics, after all. :) I just think that lyrically that whole record (with the exception of the songs I didn't write -- Window and Nocturnal) is very linear storytelling and kinda sophomoric. And I'm not crazy about the production other than in a few parts. And I think I got better at songwriting. And, and, and. :) But seriously, thanks to you and to any others that enjoy that record. Had it not been received reasonably well, we wouldn't be here. :)
On the bonus tracks, since the disc itself is over 70 minutes, I don't really feel like we're short-changing anybody. The guitarists put a lot of work into their performances so I thought it would be an appropriate way for their music to be heard. There are reasons that the Japanese pressing is what it is; the additional track on the European disc features my daughter Parker singing a cover song (Say Something by…gosh I'm not sure off the top of my head but do a youtube search with that name and Christina Aguilera) as a duet with Ray.
@Mebert78, yeah, it's not the easiest thing to read feedback but thankfully the favorable opinions outnumber the unfavorable ones. :) Dream Theater's audience has a pretty high bar, so I know if we have even a reasonable percentage of positive perspectives among their fan base, we're doing something right! :)
Thanks for the reply Nick! I appreciate the response! I hope you guys are seeing some success with the new album and I hope I get to see you on tour!
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Thanks for the reply Nick! I appreciate the response! I hope you guys are seeing some success with the new album and I hope I get to see you on tour!
Some Redemption shows would be awesome! I got into the band in 2009 after Snowfall on Judgment Day, so the only show that I got to attend was the ProgPower USA show in 2012. I'm thinking Ray is probably focused on the upcoming Fates Warning album now though.
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I was fortunate enough to see Redemption 3 times on the Chaos in Motion Tour (Baltimore, Jersey & Philly) in 2007. Bought Fullness and Origins from the merch stand at the first show and was hooked.
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Interesting regarding Nick's breakdown of The Fullness of Time and Desperation. I've always just viewed both as one song each, so cool to hear that TFOT was meant as a suite of four separate songs. That said, I will NEVER listen to just one part, always as all four together b/c they work so well together. :metal
My friend who introduced me to Redemption is really digging the new album too. He's going through some major sh!t in his life and in an e-mail the other day he said it's helping him get through each day. That's what I like about music. Glad I'm one of the lucky ones who has music really touch their soul.
Cool of Nick to drop in and say hi.
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Cool of Nick to drop in and say hi.
Yes, but why the two accounts? Who's he trying to fool? And more importantly, can he be trusted??
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Can I be trusted? Probably not! :P
I used to have an account hear eons ago and couldn't remember the login info for the life of me. It got re-set. To my knowledge, it's just one account...
To be honest with you, I guess Desperation could be considered four songs. The reason I consider it one song, and TFOT four, is because the narrative in Desperation plays out over four songs and the story makes no sense if digested individually. TFOT does have connective tissue and the payoff of the fourth track is greater if heard after the first three, but they stand alone on some basis. When we played our first live show, we played Release (part 3) and it worked very well as a standalone song.
May need to dust that one off...it's fun to play but a bit of a wrist-breaker.
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Finally got around to ordering my copy of this bad boy. I love the three songs I've heard so far.
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I was fortunate enough to see Redemption 3 times on the Chaos in Motion Tour (Baltimore, Jersey & Philly) in 2007.
I was there!
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This cd is growing on me more and more. Solid release from a great band.
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So I've been heavily relistening to the debut, and I think Window to Space is the one song that would really benefit from getting the Ray treatment - it's so amazing musically, but the vocals diminish my enjoyment a little, and that's a shame.
Nick, if you're reading this, any chance of revisiting this particular song? :P
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Sure, I'll listen to it tonight. :D
In other news, I will say I'm one of those that really enjoys the debut album, but think it is certainly my least favorite of the albums. I actually knew of Rick Mythiasin from Steel Prophet prior to discovering Redemption, and quite enjoyed his performance on the album.
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I actually went back and watched 'Nocturnal' from the 'dreams from the pit' concert. Totally dig that song from the debut, also 'As I lay dying' and 'Window to Space'. It's like with Ray's Engine albums, totally worth checking out!
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So I've been heavily relistening to the debut, and I think Window to Space is the one song that would really benefit from getting the Ray treatment - it's so amazing musically, but the vocals diminish my enjoyment a little, and that's a shame.
Nick, if you're reading this, any chance of revisiting this particular song? :P
Yes please!
I was listening to this album in the car yesterday, and it's still one of my favorites. I don't mind the vocals at all. In fact I find that they lend themselves to the storytelling. There are some fantastic instrumental sections laced throughout the album. I hope that Redemption fans can give this album another chance. :metal
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Yeah, I really enjoy that first album quite a bit too. Like a lot of debuts it's different, but there are some real gems on there.
Not sure what I think about the new one yet. I need a few more listens. I've only listened twice so far. Generally I liked what I heard.
I'm afraid I can't find much to like about the Who cover. I would have preferred nothing to that.
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I'm afraid I can't find much to like about the Who cover. I would have preferred nothing to that.
While I do like the cover quite a bit, it would've been better suited as a Bonus Track. It feels way out of place on the album proper.
Oh, and John Bush rules!
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‘Art o f Loss’ is in first point Art of Music. Very long but absolutely not boring with a lot of melodic and hard moments. Album that can man discover for long time.
I personally love Snowfall , but this one comes close to and become second one.
What do you say guys about production/mix sound on this album?
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Production is great! I'm enjoying it quite a bit, especially songs like Hope dies last, That golden light, Thirty silver, Slouching towards Bethlehem and The centre of the fire.
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Look at this disgusting review. This guy should be fired, says negative shit and doesn't even know what the fuck is going on. Fuck Metal Temple.
https://www.metal-temple.com/site/catalogues/entry/reviews/cd_3/r_2/redemption-the-art-of.htm
"The Art Of Loss" opens the album with a barrage of neo-classical arpeggiation that might even get a nod from Malmsteen himself. And it proves to be only a warm-up for Bernie Versailles, who brings the heat throughout songs such as "Slouching Towards Bethlehem", "Damaged" (also featuring guitar legend Marty Friedman) and "Thirty Silver", demonstrating fine technique - phenomenally clean - and adding a considerable presence of melody to the songs, which is a rarity amongst a lot of the more technically inclined guitarists. Although there are moments when the lead axe-wielder's heart doesn't really seem to be in it, as some of the lead lines sounds like runs through scale exercises, but they are nonetheless always on point.
:tdwn
Fucking disgraceful. Has the album lineup credits with Bernie listed too at the bottom, and no mention of Poland or even Mularoni, this guy has no clule.
I received my copy on Friday and have had a couple of spins, and I'm loving it already, I think it's fantastic. Love all the guest guitarists too, great touch.
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Haha, that is some failure on an epic level. Doesn't basically every press release about the album include the information about Bernie and what's going on with the band currently?
Anyway, the album is still really strong. I think some tracks are actually a little too heavy on the guitar solos, but that's basically all the criticism that I can level at it. I do think that it gets slightly worse towards the end - not too big on the cover, and the epic is a little disjointed imo - but that's only a drop from phenomenal to good, so I'm still very happy overall with the album.
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Damn, that review is awful. Overall, I liked the leads from the previous album better, but the ones here aren't bad at all.
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That website looks horrific.
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Just getting through my first listen and this seems to connect with me a lot more than their other stuff. I think I must've got out of the wrong side of the bed the day I rated their other albums but even Snowfall really only had half an album full of material I liked.
This one starts out fairly well but after the first couple of tracks (which are still good) I really enjoyed this album. I think the shredding adds a level of metal accessibility that helps me get involved. It's nice and melodic for the most part too. I think Alder's vocals are pretty average (even poor) at times but that's being picky.
Initial rating (with potential to grow) : 87%
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Nice Brent, I'm fucking loving this album. The amount of solos only adds to the enjoyment for me also. Poland is a beast, as is Mularoni, loving this guy.
Ray's voice certainly ain't what it use to be, but I have no problems with it. Not sure what all that talk was a couple of pages back about him being out of tune though.
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Wow, that's a high score for you, Brent.
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Look at this disgusting review. This guy should be fired, says negative shit and doesn't even know what the fuck is going on. Fuck Metal Temple.
https://www.metal-temple.com/site/catalogues/entry/reviews/cd_3/r_2/redemption-the-art-of.htm
"The Art Of Loss" opens the album with a barrage of neo-classical arpeggiation that might even get a nod from Malmsteen himself. And it proves to be only a warm-up for Bernie Versailles, who brings the heat throughout songs such as "Slouching Towards Bethlehem", "Damaged" (also featuring guitar legend Marty Friedman) and "Thirty Silver", demonstrating fine technique - phenomenally clean - and adding a considerable presence of melody to the songs, which is a rarity amongst a lot of the more technically inclined guitarists. Although there are moments when the lead axe-wielder's heart doesn't really seem to be in it, as some of the lead lines sounds like runs through scale exercises, but they are nonetheless always on point.
:tdwn
Fucking disgraceful. Has the album lineup credits with Bernie listed too at the bottom, and no mention of Poland or even Mularoni, this guy has no clule.
I received my copy on Friday and have had a couple of spins, and I'm loving it already, I think it's fantastic. Love all the guest guitarists too, great touch.
Hey, thankfully we have good websites to combat crap like this, like the knowledgeable and friendly folks over at www.wpapu.com :D
I haven't really chimed in much on this album. I certainly enjoyed it, but then again, for better or worse it is as I'd expect from Redemption. The step in guys did a great job, and Nick did another fantastic job with the songwriting. At this point I think it would be nice to see the sound branch out and develop into more new territory, but at the same time, I don't know if anyone makes music like Redemption better than Redemption.
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This album is fucking brilliant.
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After several more listens I'm definitely enjoying it quite a bit.
The guitar playing and drumming really stands out to me. Some killer solos.
Not a fan of covers, I'll be skipping that one when I listen to this album, but the rest is solid. "Slouching Towards Bethlehem" and "Thirty Silver" are my favorite songs.
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I love this album.
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I was optimistic of this album when it first came out and still am so. I can honestly say that I've listened to the Art of Loss far more times than even DT's the Astonishing (which I found amazing when I first listened to it).
For the Art of Loss, the title track and Hope Dies Last were the only ones I didn't love at first impression. I still find the title track only OK, but now love Hope Dies Last (and every other song I loved on first listen and still do). The album is just amazing. The last three tracks played consecutively (Center of the Fire, Love Reign O'er Me, At Day's End) is something I listen to literally every day.
I think I've ranked Redemption's albums earlier in this thread, but I think my ranking has changed. My top three albums are (in no particular order, they're all about equal with one another) The Fullness of Time, The Art of Loss, and This Mortal Coil.
I love Ray's voice. I understand the complaints about the sound on This Mortal Coil, but on that album in particular, I "believe" his singing. I almost forget someone else wrote the lyrics as he really owns them in the emotion I feel through his singing. Kudos to Redemption.
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I've actually really fallen in love with "Say Something", which i found on the Japanese (i think) pressing as a bonus track. Haunting, sparing song with Parker (Nick's daughter) singing along with Ray. She really compliments him well!
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This album is definitely a grower. I think I may even have to put it my top 3 like Mr. ronnibran.
I don't know if anything will ever be able to overtake "The Fullness of Time" which is one of only a handful of albums I've ever given a 5-star rating to.
I really don't understand why "This Mortal Coil" gets all of the flack it gets. It's my second favorite Redemption album and I'm gonna go ahead and call The Art of Loss my #3.
Redemption is one of those rare bands that -from where I sit- hasn't made a bad album.
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I've actually really fallen in love with "Say Something", which i found on the Japanese (i think) pressing as a bonus track. Haunting, sparing song with Parker (Nick's daughter) singing along with Ray. She really compliments him well!
Yeah, definitely. I shed a tear or two the first time I listened to it. It's available on the European 2CD pressing. I still haven't found the Japanese pressing for The Art of Loss. Has anybody found it?
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I really don't understand why "This Mortal Coil" gets all of the flack it gets.
People were nitpicking and bitching because that's what people do. The only real criticism I heard from people is the production was heavy-handed, and Nik explained his reasoning. The production never bothered me to be honest, but I can hear what those people were complaining about compared to their previous albums.
Redemption is one of those rare bands that -from where I sit- hasn't made a bad album.
Agreed 100%
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Been listening to this album more just because I love this band so much and hate to give up on an album. I still don't hold this one nearly as highly as the last two, but some of the nuances are starting to click and the album as a whole is beginning to grow on me.
It's kinda odd too. When I try to articulate what my specific criticisms are, they sound a lot like things people say who criticize DT that make me scratch my head and say, "I don't get that criticism at all." But it's just how I feel about this album. Music can be funny that way. It either grabs you or it doesn't. This one, not as much for me. But it is getting there. The big epic, in particular, is starting to gel for me, as I thought it would. Sometimes, for me, long epics with lots of disparate parts that have a "disjointed" feel can take awhile to gel for me. The Count of Tuscany and Illumination Theory were that way for me. At Day's End is definitely trending that direction as well (i.e., didn't get much from it initially, but could tell there are some really good parts, so just need to give it time to digest as a whole and learn to appreciate it).
And Nick, if you happen to read this, I'm sorry if what I or a few others are saying sounds discouraging. I know it cannot be easy to have one's art criticized after pouring yourself into a project to create something you are proud of. The majority of us who post in this thread are definitely fans of the band, even if this particular album may not click as much for us. But even though I may like it a lot less than the past two, those past two albums for me are just gold. If you had managed to release something else on par with those, I might start to suspect that you are not human. :)
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^that's why I never give an opinion on a prog piece until I've spun it at least 10 times.
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This Mortal Coil :metal :metal :metal
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You know what, I'm gonna spin "This Mortal Coil" during my workout tomorrow morning! :metal
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You know what, I'm gonna spin "This Mortal Coil" during my workout tomorrow morning! :metal
:metal
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So I've been heavily relistening to the debut, and I think Window to Space is the one song that would really benefit from getting the Ray treatment - it's so amazing musically, but the vocals diminish my enjoyment a little, and that's a shame.
Nick, if you're reading this, any chance of revisiting this particular song? :P
Just saw this.
If we were to redo something from the debut with Ray, Window would probably be it, but the lyrics were more or less adapted from a poem that was written by a college roommate of mine and while they were notionally interesting to a younger version of myself, they seem rather sophomoric and not really what we're about these days. I do like aspects of the song but I'd rather look ahead than go backward.
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I think the new album has become my second fav just behind Snowfall, it's fucking awesome.
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I listened to The Art of Loss twice today, and I love it more than when I first got it.
Most of the songs have warranted an "I need to listen to that again right now" response from me at some point in my ownership. Today, it was At Day's End.
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I listened to The Art of Loss twice today, and I love it more than when I first got it.
Most of the songs have warranted an "I need to listen to that again right now" response from me at some point in my ownership. Today, it was At Day's End.
Agree with both points here. Most songs have that feel so you can't help but to listen to the album, then listen again.
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So I've been heavily relistening to the debut, and I think Window to Space is the one song that would really benefit from getting the Ray treatment - it's so amazing musically, but the vocals diminish my enjoyment a little, and that's a shame.
Nick, if you're reading this, any chance of revisiting this particular song? :P
Just saw this.
If we were to redo something from the debut with Ray, Window would probably be it, but the lyrics were more or less adapted from a poem that was written by a college roommate of mine and while they were notionally interesting to a younger version of myself, they seem rather sophomoric and not really what we're about these days. I do like aspects of the song but I'd rather look ahead than go backward.
I definitely understand that. :tup And may I say you're doing a phenomenal job at it - The Art of Loss is rising quickly as one of my favourite of your albums.
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I think the new album has become my second fav just behind Snowfall, it's fucking awesome.
Definitely this. The Art of Loss is definitely a grower, but once it clicked on me, it skyrocketed to #2 behind Snowfall.
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Just listened and after the first two tracks, which are still pretty good, the album takes off.
My faves so far are:
Damaged
Thirty Silver
Hope Dies Last
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The Art of Loss progress report: The album is REALLY started to grow on me. I am glad my opinion of it is really turning around from where it was. I mean, as a complicated progressive metal album, I knew there were going to be things that it would take time to digest and appreciate. But already being a fan of the band and having a history of their last two albums being among some of my favorite music of all time, I was not expecting my initial reaction to be so lukewarm. There is definitely a lot to appreciate here, and I am liking it more and more.
Favorites thus far are: Slouching, Damaged, Thirty Silver, and The Center of the Fire.
Nick, if you happen to peruse the thread and have time, I would love to know the background to where some of the song ideas and overall album theme came from, especially the theme of betrayal and loss. I did a bit of poking around on the Internet to see if you had commented anywhere, but I did not see anything. (although this interview about the songwriting process in general, the guest musicians, etc. is awesome: https://www.metalwani.com/2016/03/interview-redemptions-nick-van-dyk-on-the-art-of-loss.html )
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Glad to see it's growing on you, bosk! Thanks for sharing that interview too. Lots of good insight.
Regarding song ideas, my early research of the lyrics shortly after the album's release revealed that "Slouching Toward Bethlehem" was inspired by, or based on, W.B. Yeats' 1919 poem, "The Second Coming." You can see some elements from the poem in the song lyrics: https://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html
I also discovered that "The Center of the Fire" was inspired by, or based on, a 1999 poem titled "The Invitation" by a woman named Oriah Mountain Dreamer. That poem can be viewed here: https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/oriah-mountain-dreamer.html
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Lately I can't stop listening to The Fullness Of Time. Such a great album!!! In particular, the last track "Transcendence" I have been particularly addicted to. Add "Parker's Eyes" and "Scarred" to round out my top three for that album.
I've always been impressed by the sound of this album. The sound/mix is really good, considering it was their second release and don't have "big band dollars" for production.
Redemption for me is so perfect - I love Nick's songwriting and especially his lyrics. I love Ray's voice, but it is SOOO suited for Redemption. Fate's Warning is hit and miss for me, I guess I prefer the songwriting of Redemption just that much more.
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Love the new cd, but the epic still has not quite clicked for me. My top two cd's by redemption are Origins of Ruin and Snowfall on Judgement Day.
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Listening now, trying to give it some more attention. While I'm not in love with Thirty Silver, that solo section is :metal
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Listening now, trying to give it some more attention. While I'm not in love with Thirty Silver, that solo section is :metal
First person I've heard say that so far. That's the song that immediately clicked the most with me.
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Yeah, I've seen Thirty Sliver listed as a fave quite a bit. For me, the two most immediate tracks are Hope Dies Last and That Golden Light.
I find the opening guitar in the intro to The Center Of The Fire very Schenker-ish. Which is a good thing!!!
And Damaged is awesome!
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The epic is incredible. A grower for sure. Gets better with each listen. It might topple Memory from the #2 spot on my Redemption song ranking.
Slouching is my second favorite so far. Such a cool concept.... one of the smoothest intros I've ever heard, and that instrumental section around the 4:30 mark is nothing short of ferocious.
This beast is already my 2nd favorite Redemption album. An awesome return to form, and for me, the far and away better than the previous two efforts.
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Slouching is my second favorite so far. Such a cool concept.... one of the smoothest intros I've ever heard, and that instrumental section around the 4:30 mark is nothing short of ferocious.
One of my fav parts of the whole album, Mularoni is a freaking beast!
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We're down to the Top 5 in the Redemption survivor, so if you want to have your voice heard in the selection process, then head over to the Polls and Survivors forums and make sure to cast your vote there!
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Final round of the Redemption survivor is live now! If you haven't already, head over to the Polls & Survivors forum to have a part in crowning DTF's favourite Redemption song!
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Triple post, yay! The Redemption survivor is now done, and Memory won! Good choice, everyone. You can click the link in my sig for all the results from every album, the consolations and the finals.
Thanks once again for voting in the survivor, everyone. 'Twas fun.
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Thanks for running it so well Scorpion.
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Still loving the new album - up there with the debut as my favourite by the band. :metal :coolio
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Still loving the new album - up there with the debut as my favourite by the band. :metal :coolio
Wow, okay.
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Still loving the new album - up there with the debut as my favourite by the band. :metal :coolio
Love seeing love for the debut album :metal
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Still loving the new album - up there with the debut as my favourite by the band. :metal :coolio
Wow, okay.
Still loving the new album - up there with the debut as my favourite by the band.
Love seeing love for the debut album
:facepalm: :facepalm: No idea why I wrote the debut there, I actually meant The Fullness of Time :lol Not sure how I could mix them up when they have different singers :blush I do like the debut as well though, especially Something Wicked :metal
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One of my Redemption friends recently sent me a copy of a rare import of The Fullness of Time that included the band performing a cover of Faith No More's "The Real Thing." I never knew about it, but I love FNM and that's my favorite FNM song. It was pretty sweet to hear!
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Hoping this is legit Redemption news, on Redemption's facebook page they reposted Chris Quirarte's (drummer) post of "Day two of recording drums for our upcoming record!"
If so, wasn't expecting this so soon! Hopefully this is true and we get more info soon!
Edit: appears to be legit, scrolled further down on Redemptions facebook page and found a reply to someone from Redemption saying "New music written...rehearsals for recording underway!"
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Hoping this is legit Redemption news, on Redemption's facebook page they reposted Chris Quirarte's (drummer) post of "Day two of recording drums for our upcoming record!"
If so, wasn't expecting this so soon! Hopefully this is true and we get more info soon!
Edit: appears to be legit, scrolled further down on Redemptions facebook page and found a reply to someone from Redemption saying "New music written...rehearsals for recording underway!"
Damn, that was quick if that's the case. Bring it on. :metal
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My opinion on Art of Loss has turned upside down over the last year. I was underwhelmed at release but may albums I preferred at that time have become stale, while Art of Loss seems to reveal timeless qualities.
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My opinion on Art of Loss has turned upside down over the last year. I was underwhelmed at release but may albums I preferred at that time have become stale, while Art of Loss seems to reveal timeless qualities.
I think it's one of their best albums :metal
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Saw this on Facebook tonight - Progpower USA 2018 Announcement Video
https://vimeo.com/232535695
Redemption was announced at the 7:00 minuite mark. Nick confirms that Ray is no longer in the band and has been replaced by TOM FUCKING ENGLUND. :hefdaddy
I approve whole-hardheartedly. The snippet of the new song confirms it - I love them, but Redemption to me seemed to be stuck on autopilot over the last few albums. This is going to change the game for me.
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Not sure what to think about this news... While the clip didn't grab me, I think it was mainly just out of place a bit not hearing Ray. I do like Tom Englund's voice, but I thought Ray was so integral to their sound, and I especially thought he brought it on The Art of Loss.
But don't want to sound negative on Redemption - just shocked at the moment... Looking forward to the new album for sure still.
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Oh wow. I don't know what to think. I liked Redemption because Rays tone fit the atmosphere and mood of the music really well.
I'll have to give the new album a listen once its released.
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That's not good news to me. Tom Englund is a good singer, but Ray Alder is...... Ray Alder.
Besides, the snippets don't sound any different from typical Redemption.
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It does sound like Redemption still. I want to hear him do the softer stuff. That's where Ray shined.
Where is that progpower thread though? Thats a great lineup and I may go to this one.
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Wait wait what?? Evergrey's Tom Englund? :omg: Did not suspect that! :omg:
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Well that's a bummer. Always loved Ray's voice and his work with Redemption :'(
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I guess this has to do with Fates being more active in recent years. I bet the Redemption's sound won't differ too much, since it's really Nick 's baby.
About progpower 2018... JLB finally touring again?!?! Very cool news!
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This excites me. I was very disappointed with Art of Loss. Hope Tom can manage his time between the two bands effectively.
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This excites me. I was very disappointed with Art of Loss. Hope Tom can manage his time between the two bands effectively.
I'm sure he can. Redemption rarely plays shows or tours. Evergrey will probably remain his primary band.
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Didn't really care for the last album, but this really kills any interest I had in the band, unfortunately.
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Never heard of the guy, but a change could be interesting. I never really went back to the last two albums. Like Grappler said, it sounded like a band on autopilot to me, so bring on a change.
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I heard a rumor about Ray leaving, and I guess it was true. Plus, he's married now and living in Europe, so I imagine he probably wants to enjoy that side of life more as well. Although Redemption never really performed live in recent years, so I cant imagine it took up much of his time. I love Tom though. He's an amazing songwriter, singer and lyricist. Probably one of my top five progressive metal musicians. Like everyone else, I'm pretty used to hearing Ray's voice over Nick's songwriting, but if Ray had to go I gotta say Tom would be up there on the list as a sweet replacement. He's a brilliant creative force and a hell of a nice guy. The last two Evergrey albums are 10/10, in my opinion. It'll be interesting so see what Redemption becomes with not one, but two, big-time songwriters in the band in Tom and Nick. Should be interesting. Very sad to see Ray go, however.
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The Art Of Loss really crept up on me. It hit me last summer while driving through Wyoming.
I am not into Evergrey in anyway, mostly because the vocals just don't do it for me. I'll check out any new Redemption music, and I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
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Wow, what the hell, now this is interesting.
I love Tom, he's one of my favourite metal singers, he has one of the most distinctive voices but I really loved Ray in this band too. The clips sound like Redemption with Tom so I'm sure it will be good. Good to see Poland and Mularoni back on board, but hopefully Tom does some leads too, he's a phenominal guitarist.
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As long as the man who wrote Sapphire, Memory, At Day's end and several is still steering the ship, Redemption will be just fine.
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As long as the man who wrote Sapphire, Memory, At Day's end and several is still steering the ship, Redemption will be just fine.
That's pretty much how I feel as well. I even stopped listening to the new Threshold album I got the other day to listen to some old Redemption favorites, to "grieve" the change. Sapphire and At Day's End are both favorites of mine. Next on my agenda is to listen to Evergrey's "Hymns for the Broken" album. It's the only Evergrey album I have, but I really like it. I know I'll like the new Redemption just fine.
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Not feeling Tom singing Redemption songs. Odd choice.
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Not feeling Tom singing Redemption songs. Odd choice.
Give him a chance. Wait until we hear more. Those samples as they said were rough mixes so it's tough to judge based on those.
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Not feeling Tom singing Redemption songs. Odd choice.
Give him a chance. Wait until we hear more. Those samples as they said were rough mixes so it's tough to judge based on those.
didn't even listen to any samples, just going off of my familiarity of Toms voice in Evergrey.
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Not feeling Tom singing Redemption songs. Odd choice.
Where can I find the samples with Tom singing?
While I'll wait for the album to make a final judgement, Tom's voice is always "dramatic" sounding in Evergrey and that's the way Nick tends to write for Redemption. I read a review of a Redemption album several years ago and one of the things that struck out was that the reviewer described it as "dramatic prog metal", which I think that description fits Redemption's music pretty acurate.
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Not feeling Tom singing Redemption songs. Odd choice.
Where can I find the samples with Tom singing?
While I'll wait for the album to make a final judgement, Tom's voice is always "dramatic" sounding in Evergrey and that's the way Nick tends to write for Redemption. I read a review of a Redemption album several years ago and one of the things that struck out was that the reviewer described it as "dramatic prog metal", which I think that description fits Redemption's music pretty acurate.
There's a link on the page before with a progpower lineup video which has some samples of roughly mixed new stuff.
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Any word on why Ray left? I didn't love Art of Loss so it will be interesting to hear where they go from here.
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Any word on why Ray left? I didn't love Art of Loss so it will be interesting to hear where they go from here.
Maybe he's going to be busy with Fates? Nick mentioned in that ProgPower video that he was looking for more emotion from his singer as well, so it's possible that it was more of a mutual parting of ways.
Additional comments from Nick Van Dyk:
https://pmx2.krose.org/forum?action=view&forum_id=1&message_id=546624
Hello folks. The secret is out now. It's been hard sitting on this for the past few months, particularly once we finished recording vocals a few weeks ago, so it's good to be able to speak about it now.
On that note, re: Nosferatwo's second comment, we waited specifically for Progpower because the band has a long history with the festival and we thought this was a nice way to "give back" and provide a "scoop" to those in attendance. I will also cop to enjoying being in the crowd for the spontaneous reaction to the reveal, which was fantastic. I believe Tom enjoyed it as well. After all, he's following a pretty remarkable vocalist in Ray and it was good to hear first-hand that the audience was first saddened by the news and then elated by it.
There will, of course, be a proper press release which has been worked out in advance and should drop tomorrow. I don't believe this choreography will diminish the impact of the announcement. Those who are in the Progpower circle (including by association this website, among others, I presume) got the news first; those who learn of this type of thing through more traditional metal news sites will learn about it 48 hours later, give or take.
Re: hiring "old tired vocalists" this was a decision that was well considered over several months and numerous options were assessed, including hiring a " no name" vocalist. The demands of our music are somewhat particular and the likelihood of finding a "no name" vocalist capable of doing what we need to do at a high level is exceedingly rare. Tom brings awareness and potential new fans to the group. And his voice is anything but tired.
Which segues to the next point, addressing Nos' first concern. If you like our previous work as I believe you do (at least some of it), there will be ample opportunity to hear what we sound like with Tom. We sound less like Evergrey with Tom than we sounded like Fates Warning with Ray. Tom brought some great ideas to the mix and his creativity is definitely reflected in the music, but the melodies are different from Evergrey, and his singing is in a slightly different style as a result.
I trust Chris Poland will not mind if I share with you the contents of a text he sent me while tracking his solos:
"This music is amazing and heart breaking at times. The songs are incredible as is the playing...You know I loved Ray but this new vocalist has captured the light and dark in the lyrics and is killer. At one point he rivals Peter Gabriel's "So" period. He is really something special."
At any rate, you may find you like what you hear more than you expect to. Or not.
I've been sitting with the music long enough to dislike most of it at this point. This process nearly always happens (it did not with the last record, for whatever reason, but that's the only one). Even in the mix of that, though, I know there are six very strong songs here, two of which are as good as anything I've ever written.
I'm excited for you all to hear it.
Thanks, as always, for your interest!
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I am not a fan of the singer from Evergrey. So, this news has me bummed. However, it isn't entirely unexpected.
Ray Alder got married, moved to Spain, and has a family. And he's probably at a point where he only really wants to concentrate on one band. Remember, he joined Redemption when Fates really wasn't heavily active. Now that Fates IS heavily active again, and Ray has taken up writing 90 percent of the lyrics on Fates material, he's probably just too busy.
Besides, I always had a little bit of a question mark around that whole thing. When you're in two prog metal bands with the same fan base (generally) and one is sorta "competing" (not really, but yes in the sense that they both are in the same genre) with the other, that doesn't really seem right to either band.
I think this is the right decision for both bands, but I'm not sold on Redemption's choice, despite what Nick and Chris think. I will, of course, give it a shot. But I never cared for Tom's timbre. I am sure I am in the minority on that one. And I'm happy for fellow Redemption fans that like the move. I hope it grows on me. Looking forward to hearing a new record.
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I don't know that I'd consider Fates heavily active. Sure they're writing and touring again but these aren't 6 month stints of tours. They're a month and a half at best.
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Regardless of singer, I hope that they freshen up the song structures a bit. The Art of Loss was mostly boring to me because it didn't really bring anything new to the table.
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Wow. I'm a big Ray fan, so this is a big shock to me. I'll Always buy cd's with his voice on it. I love the band, however and will definetely check it out when it comes out.
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I do like Tom's voice, but with Redemption it'll take some getting used to. Sad that Ray left though. His singing added so much. I'm not a Fate's Warning fan, so for me Ray and Nick were a perfect combination. I have no doubt that Tom will bring it though.
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Great news, can't wait to hear how Tom will fit into Redemption's music and even more so if they do a few live gigs and he has to sing old stuff.
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That was a great read from Nick. Im really looking forward to this and have thought for a long time now that Tom simply has one of the best, most powerful and emotional voices Ive ever heard. Im sure this will be great. Chris' comment is wonderful too.
I hope Nick pops in here like he has done in the past. He has been gracious with the few times he has commented and presented himself in here.
Nick, if you do pop in, is it all you, Chris and Simone? Any leads for Tom, or was he too busy doing the vox?
I think those that don't dig Tom should have hope, Im sure this will be great.
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Definitely interested in hearing how this plays out on the new album! I've never really listened to Evergrey before, but I do like Tom's voice in the songs I'm listening to from that band. I'm not entirely sure what I'm thinking about him on the new Redemption samples though. Then again, as they point out in the video, the recordings aren't mixed and mastered yet so that could very well be a factor.
At the very least, Tom's clearly gifted and I want nothing less than to see Redemption succeed. They're a wonderful band and I'm more than willing to give this new lineup a chance.
That said, it does suck a bit that Ray's out.
I completely get why he left, as Samsara pointed out, Ray's life has been undergoing a pretty massive change over the past two years and Fates Warning has been kicking up the activity a lot lately. He is probably my favorite singer in the metal scene- as someone here once put it, Ray is like the Frank Sinatra of Prog Metal-, so it is a bit disheartening that he's no longer with Redemption. However we still have those five albums with Ray on vocals to always go back and listen to.
Here's to the future, for everyone at Redemption! :metal
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Just noticed that Nick offered some thoughts on the ProgPower USA reaction to Tom being announced as vocalist in the Blabbermouth comments...
Mark Colgan
"The sample we heard at ProgPowerUSA leads me to believe that this won't be well received. I absolutely love Tom & Evergrey but Redemption will have to change their style a bit to fit Toms vocals it seems"
Nick Van Dyk
"I would say we must recall the response very differenty...except that I have a video of the crowd response to our clip, so...I dunno. Maybe the boos are there and it's just hard to hear them beneath the deafening applause."
Robert M Lisanti
"Evergrey blows away Redemption anyway ;)"
Nick Van Dyk
"That may well be the case, but that's different than saying Tom won't be well-received in Redemption. :)"
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Well, I guess I need to check out Evergrey now so I can get a feel for how this guy sings. Recommendations? Where do I start?
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In Search of Truth and The Inner Circle.
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Both good and popular suggestions, and I would put Recreation Day right up there as well. Also, for a newer idea, Hymns For the Broken was top 3 in 2014 for me.
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Evergrey's latest two albums, Hymns for the Broken and The Storm Within, are both perfect albums for me from start to finish.
On a separate note, I realized last night that I was fortunate enough to see Ray's final show with Redemption, which was at ProgPower USA in 2012. It was my first and only Redemption concert. They haven't performed live since then. I also got to attend an intimate performance the next morning for fans that funded the PPUSA show being filmed for a DVD. It was definitely one of the most memorable music-related moments of my life. I'm listening back to all the old Redemption discs now featuring Ray. So many moments of pure magic, man. Pure motherfucking magic.
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I think Recreation Day is a great starting point for them, but also think the Inner Circle and the latest 2 would be good as well. In Search of Truth is a great album, but for some reason I think it would be better to start with one of the others.
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It does sound like Redemption still. I want to hear him do the softer stuff. That's where Ray shined.
Where is that progpower thread though? Thats a great lineup and I may go to this one.
Here's him singing over a piano version of an Evergrey song. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l_CMhGCsnU) He sounds pretty solid imo.
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Evergrey is a fine band and all the players perform well but the albums have no staying power for me. Not sure why but it is what it
is. On the other hand I can pull out a Redemption album and it still sounds as good as the day I bought it. Ray was a great fit for the
band and he will be missed.
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Well, I guess I need to check out Evergrey now so I can get a feel for how this guy sings. Recommendations? Where do I start?
Recreation Day is by far the best place to start, no contest. Then, In Search of Truth and Hymns For the Broken.
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Well, I guess I need to check out Evergrey now so I can get a feel for how this guy sings. Recommendations? Where do I start?
Albums - The Inner Circle and In Search For Truth should show you a good benchmark of what the guy does I think, although I personally got into the band through Recreation Day which is still a fantastic album.
Songs - King Of Errors, The Masterplan, Ambassador, The Essence of Conviction, Trilogy Of The Damned, Faith Restored
And of course, him at Ayreon - https://youtu.be/tKmHp_QOi8I?t=123
When I suggested them to a friend of mine years ago, she came back to me after listening to Recreation Day and Inner Circle and said "They are like a heavier, darker Fates Warning in a way" and while musically they don't sound like FW I could see where she was coming from.
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Well, I guess I need to check out Evergrey now so I can get a feel for how this guy sings. Recommendations? Where do I start?
Recreation Day is by far the best place to start, no contest. Then, In Search of Truth and Hymns For the Broken.
On this I agree. Hymns for the Broken was also Top 3 on my list for 2014 (#3 to be precise).
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Well, I guess I need to check out Evergrey now so I can get a feel for how this guy sings. Recommendations? Where do I start?
Recreation Day is by far the best place to start, no contest. Then, In Search of Truth and Hymns For the Broken.
On this I agree. Hymns for the Broken was also Top 3 on my list for 2014 (#3 to be precise).
I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure it was my fav album of the year.
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I only discoverd Redemption a few weeks ago because of DTF. Can't believe I missed this band all those years.
Must be the 3rd band (after DT & Haken) that grabbed me instantly.
Thanks DTF :hefdaddy
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I only discoverd Redemption a few weeks ago because of DTF. Can't believe I missed this band all those years.
Must be the 3rd band (after DT & Haken) that grabbed me instantly.
Thanks DTF :hefdaddy
Enjoy, dude! There are many gems scattered through their discography. You have lots of fun discoveries ahead of you!
I was thinking last night what are my top five Redemption songs featuring Ray Alder. My initial ranking is below. I'm a huge lyrics guy, which played a role in my choices.
1) Love Kills us All / Life in One Day
2) Memory
3) Sapphire
4) Perfect
5) The Center of the Fire
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I only discoverd Redemption a few weeks ago because of DTF. Can't believe I missed this band all those years.
Must be the 3rd band (after DT & Haken) that grabbed me instantly.
Thanks DTF :hefdaddy
That's cool that we can spread the word for amazing bands like this.
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New keyboardist!!!
Link: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/us-progressive-metallers-redemption-announce-vikram-shankar-new-keyboardist/
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So many changes in the band, and I'm not sure what to make of it all. It will be interesting to see how they sound now.
I see the note on the new album as well, and the title: Long Night’s Journey into Day. Interesting title. Does anyone know where that phrase originates? Neal Morse uses it in the lyrics as part of the chorus on one of the songs on SS, and it is apparently the title of a film on South African apartheid. So it must have come from somewhere and be an actual quote. Anyone have any insight?
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This is kind of surreal; I've seen Vikram post on a lot of mutual friends' Facebooks for a couple years, and suddenly I hear he's joining Redemption. That's awesome. Guy is super talented from everything I've seen.
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I just want to hear some new music dammit!!
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I'm tired of waiting for this album but know it will be worth the wait. I swear last September when they announced everything that they were aiming for an early 2018 release but now they haven't even mentioned a release timeframe yet.
First thing I thought of with the album title was Neal Morse (like Bosk mentioned). Although I think it was also last September when that info was released also (and the short clip of new stuff in the progpower announcement was from the song of that name also). I'm guessing the inspiration behind the title came from some form of literary work but wouldn't know the reference.
Gonna be good, just cautiously optimistic about it overall. I listen to all of their albums regularly, it's hard to imagine the band with a different singer (yes I realize the debut had a different singer (mostly) and I listen to that one too).
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Looking forward to this album. I've been listening to both Redemption and Evergrey since last year and both are in my top 10 bands right n now. I'm very curious how Redemption will sound with Tom. He's got some big shoes to fill with Ray voice being such a key part of Redemption sound.
Let's hope they do a tour after Progpower and come to Europe.
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I have to admit, I don't get the love for Evergrey and Englund. I respect the band and the singer a great deal. I just never could connect with his voice for some reason. And because of that, I am very skeptical about new Redemption music. Ray's voice gone, and now a new keyboard player too, I am sure Nick has written a great album (he always does), but it's not high on my radar.
When it is released, I'll of course check it out. But for me, if I can't connect with the vocalist, very rarely does a band keep my attention...
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I have to admit, I don't get the love for Evergrey and Englund. I respect the band and the singer a great deal. I just never could connect with his voice for some reason. And because of that, I am very skeptical about new Redemption music. Ray's voice gone, and now a new keyboard player too, I am sure Nick has written a great album (he always does), but it's not high on my radar.
When it is released, I'll of course check it out. But for me, if I can't connect with the vocalist, very rarely does a band keep my attention...
I've been an Evergrey fan for 15 years and that's the first time that I have ever heard someone say that they don't love Tom's voice. People complain about their music all the time (it's not dark and progressive enough like their older stuff) but they always still compliment Tom's singing. In Evergrey, his emotion is mainly on the darker side. Pain, anguish, despair. It will be interesting to see how he fits into Redemption, since some of their songs can be more hopeful in sound/feel or topic. But Redemption has also had plenty of darker, heavier songs too.
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Tom is probably one of my top three favorite voices in progressive metal, but that's just me! As for the Redemption album, it sounds to me like the album was pretty much done, but when Tom came on board he maybe floated the idea of adding a full-time keyboardist to give the songs some extra pop and Nick was for it upon seeing what Vikram could do. Personally, I loved Greg H.'s keyboard work on the Snowfall on Judgment Day album and I was sad to see he wasn't on This Mortal Coil. Adding Vikram probably caused a delay for the new album since he ended up adding his contributions to the completed pieces. Should be interesting. I totally trust Nick and Tom -- they are both brilliant creative minds. This album will slay!
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I've been an Evergrey fan for 15 years and that's the first time that I have ever heard someone say that they don't love Tom's voice. People complain about their music all the time (it's not dark and progressive enough like their older stuff) but they always still compliment Tom's singing. In Evergrey, his emotion is mainly on the darker side. Pain, anguish, despair. It will be interesting to see how he fits into Redemption, since some of their songs can be more hopeful in sound/feel or topic. But Redemption has also had plenty of darker, heavier songs too.
Ha ha. Well, I don't know what to say, I've tried. At your recommendation no less! His voice just doesn't resonate with me for whatever reason. Obviously, he is a really good singer, and I respect him. It just hasn't clicked for me personally.
But I will check out the new Redemption record for sure!
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I have to admit, I don't get the love for Evergrey and Englund. I respect the band and the singer a great deal. I just never could connect with his voice for some reason. And because of that, I am very skeptical about new Redemption music. Ray's voice gone, and now a new keyboard player too, I am sure Nick has written a great album (he always does), but it's not high on my radar.
When it is released, I'll of course check it out. But for me, if I can't connect with the vocalist, very rarely does a band keep my attention...
I agree with all of this, Sam. This is not an automatic buy.
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I have to admit, I don't get the love for Evergrey and Englund. I respect the band and the singer a great deal. I just never could connect with his voice for some reason. And because of that, I am very skeptical about new Redemption music. Ray's voice gone, and now a new keyboard player too, I am sure Nick has written a great album (he always does), but it's not high on my radar.
When it is released, I'll of course check it out. But for me, if I can't connect with the vocalist, very rarely does a band keep my attention...
I agree with all of this, Sam. This is not an automatic buy.
I like Evergrey a lot, but I'm not sure how well Tom's voice and style of singing would fit for Redemption. I'm curious about the new album, but yeah, it'll be one of those "try before you buy" records for me.
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I'm more curious of how he'll sound on older material.
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I see the note on the new album as well, and the title: Long Night’s Journey into Day. Interesting title. Does anyone know where that phrase originates? Neal Morse uses it in the lyrics as part of the chorus on one of the songs on SS, and it is apparently the title of a film on South African apartheid. So it must have come from somewhere and be an actual quote. Anyone have any insight?
"Long Night's Journey into Day" is a "play" on "Long Day's Journey into Night," which is a Pulitzer Prize winning, semi-autobiographical play by Eugene O'Neill, written in the 1940s and published in the 1950s. The play was made into a 1962 movie starring Katharine Hepburn (for which she was nominated for an Oscar). "Long Day's Journey into Night" appears to have originated with the O'Neill play.
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This is an absolute blind purchase for me. Tom is one of the best voices in metal, and one of my favs in general to be honest.
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This is an absolute blind purchase for me. Tom is one of the best voices in metal, and one of my favs in general to be honest.
:hifive:
I have seen more than a few here at DTF say that Tom's voice doesn't do it for them. Different strokes I guess. Plus, having met the dude at a M&G and PPUSA, he is one cool mofo.
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Whats a good Evergrey song/album to check out? I've been wanting to listen to them but always forgot when I would search for music.
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New Redemption will be an automatic buy for me. I'm not the biggest Evergrey fan, only regularly listen to two of their albums (the newest two). But the reason I haven't gotten into more isn't because of Tom's voice, I have just found other stuff I've checked out to be a little boring. I still prefer Ray's voice over Tom's but who knows maybe the new Redemption will change that. After all I think it's really Nick's songwriting that really has me loving Redemption as much as I do.
My choice for a song to check out is King Of Errors. https://youtu.be/Pmmh69G-pt0 (https://youtu.be/Pmmh69G-pt0) It's the first song I ever heard by them. The entire album (Hymns for the Broken) is fantastic.
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Whats a good Evergrey song/album to check out? I've been wanting to listen to them but always forgot when I would search for music.
A Touch of Blessing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ8PXXrCasE
I am so excited for this new Redemption disc with Tom!
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Whats a good Evergrey song/album to check out? I've been wanting to listen to them but always forgot when I would search for music.
Album-wise, either Recreation Day or Hymns for the Broken.
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Since I'm seeing Redemption at ProgPower I need to get familiar with another album. What's better than The Fullness of Time? I don't particularly find that album interesting or fun.
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Since I'm seeing Redemption at ProgPower I need to get familiar with another album. What's better than The Fullness of Time? I don't particularly find that album interesting or fun.
Snowfall on Judgement Day is their best IMO
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Since I'm seeing Redemption at ProgPower I need to get familiar with another album. What's better than The Fullness of Time? I don't particularly find that album interesting or fun.
Snowfall on Judgement Day is their best IMO
+1
After Snowfall, I would check out Origin of Ruins, Art of Loss, and This Mortal Coil.
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Since I'm seeing Redemption at ProgPower I need to get familiar with another album. What's better than The Fullness of Time? I don't particularly find that album interesting or fun.
Yea, I need to start listening to this band for PPUSA. I've been listening to a lot of Dream Evil and Alestorm lately, I want to start getting into Angra and Redemption next.
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Snowfall it is then! I'll make sure to get to that at some point... *saves on Spotify*
cram, move on from Alestorm and listen to good metal. :lol I'm playing, but seriously, get on Angra. You won't regret it.
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I wasn't blown away by their new single, but I am still planning to dig a little deeper. Day 2 at PPUSA was the only day I wasn't interested in (just because I am not familiar with those bands), so thats why I started with Dream Evil (who is solid, but I don't love them) and then Angra were bands I really was hoping to like.
Alestorm is just easy though. I can listen to the album once and know it essentially, the more proggy stuff takes a lot of listens to really digest.
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My Redemption album rankings....
1. The Fullness of Time
2. The Art of Loss
3. Origins of Ruin
4. Redemption
5. Snowfall on Judgment Day
6. This Mortal Coil
Hoping that the new album title is connected to "At Day's End". Would certainly make sense.
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For me The Fullness of Time and The Origins of Ruin are pretty much tied at the top. Then either Snowfall or This Mortal Coil, depending on my mood. The self titled is last, and I need to listen to The Art of Loss more.
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It will probably be an automatic purchase for me, but on the strength of Nick's writing and the level of playing I have come to expect from a Redemption album, not necessarily because of the new guy on vocals. Never been a fan of Evergrey. Not that I can't point to anything specific that I don't like, but nothing I ever heard really clicked at all. But I expect I will find plenty to like on just about anything with the Redemption name on it.
EDIT: #hangonasecond The Grand Collapse is actually pretty epic.
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My favourite is Origins of Ruin closely followed by Snowfall, so yeah, can't go wrong with either of these two.
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My favourite is Origins of Ruin closely followed by Snowfall, so yeah, can't go wrong with either of these two.
You'd think. But since he already crapped on Fullness of Time, who knows!?
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My favourite is Origins of Ruin closely followed by Snowfall, so yeah, can't go wrong with either of these two.
You'd think. But since he already crapped on Fullness of Time, who knows!?
I need prog metal with energy and Fullness of Time has very low energy! Sad! :lol
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Not really news so much, but a couple of weeks ago Redemption responded to a question on their facebook page: "News forthcoming in about 30 days...but this year for sure."
So hopefully we'll at least get some kind of update in about a couple weeks!
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New song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjrM0wsEK5Y
Album description from the pre-order page:
"If there's a consistent message to Redemption's music, it's that life is a struggle and there is pain and fear and doubt, but, ultimately, it is a thing of beauty and wonderment. If you push through the struggle, the rewards of that process itself, along with what you find on the other side, are joyous and a fantastic gift," states guitarist/keyboardist Nick van Dyk, and with Long Night's Journey Into Day, the seventh full-length from the LA based progressive powerhouse, this has never been clearer. Taking the title of Eugene O'Neill's play Long Day's Journey Into Night, which focuses on the decay of a family that's plagued by addiction, Redemption have turned it inside out, and made it their own. "Inverting the phrasing of the title is really what Redemption's message is about. It's a long night. It's a journey, and at times it's a struggle. But there is daybreak."
The follow-up to 2016's The Art Of Loss, which van Dyk counts as amongst Redemption's very best, Long Night's Journey Into Day is inarguably the sound of a band at the height of their powers. As followers of Redemption are also aware, it is the first full-length since the departure of vocalist Ray Alder, and features the debut of Evergrey vocalist Tom Englund. "We were unable to tour 'The Art Of Loss' because Ray was not able to actively participate in Redemption any longer, so we decided it was time to part company shortly after its release. Ray is a dear friend, and I have nothing but respect and love for him and what we created together. But at some point, it just became untenable." Of course, Alder's shoes were not exactly going to be easy to fill, and it was essential that his successor be someone who would immediately command respect, as well as somebody who could exceed expectations when it came to performance. Moreover, it was integral that they had someone who could fully invest in the lyrical themes concerning the human condition, which have always been central to Redemption. So, the fact that from the beginning of his career Englund has penned lyrics about feelings of doubt, fear and despair with an unshakable emotional authenticity made him the perfect choice. "Because of the power of his voice and the emotion he brings, this isn't going to be a shocking transition for fans. Tom's also a very versatile vocalist, and being a songwriter, he has a tremendous melodic and compositional sensibility, and on top of that, we've known each other for many years, and there is a level of not just professional respect but personal friendship to it all."
With the band - rounded out by bassist Sean Andrews and drummer Chris Quirarte - having built their sound around the combination of aggressive, heavy riffing with strong melodic sensibilities imbued with a certain cinematic quality and delivered with urgency and heartfelt emotion, Long Night's Journey Into Day takes its cues from its predecessors while pushing that sound ever forward. While known for penning grandiose epics, van Dyk never sets out to write long songs for the sake of it, and though boasting a fair share of lengthy tracks - including the powerful title track, which closes out the record - there is something very direct about Long Night's Journey Into Day, which increases its emotional power. "I never want a song to feel like it drags, whether it's four minutes or fourteen minutes long, and often, the driving force behind some of our longest songs isn't the music but the words. If you're dealing with a topic that starts in a dark place and tells a story of struggle and meditates on what it is to be human, and then ends in a place of positivity - which a lot of our music does - it's not credible to have a verse where somebody is in a dark place and then two lines later everything is fine. Like the real-life situations that we're talking about, whether it be recovering from failure, dealing with the end of a chapter in our lives, coming to terms with one's mortality or experiencing a betrayal and struggling through its impact, whatever it might be, these things are a process of discovery and contemplation and reflection and they take time to unfold."
Many such themes are touched upon over the course of the record's ten tracks, all of which are as thoughtful as they are relatable. To reference but a few, "Impermanent" is about learning to adapt, and realizing that life is about growth and change and making the best of the moment, while "Eyes You Dare Not Face In Dreams" focuses on the doubts that fill the void when one's integrity is lacking. Then there is "The Echo Chamber", the second political song of the band's seventeen-year career, focusing on how social media has led people to only engage with those of the same perspective, and the loss of emphasis on learning from those with different views. "Indulge In Color", which van Dyk counts amongst the top three or four songs the band has penned, "is a sequel to 'Black & White World' [from 2009's 'Snowfall On Judgment Day'], which is arguably the best song I've ever written. Life is hard, but it's a thing of tremendous beauty, and it's up to you to live it to the fullest. Like the song 'Perfect' on 'This Mortal Coil' (2011) says: suck the marrow out of every day." The new record's title track also embraces and advances this theme. "We see a lot of dreams and hoped-for-outcomes dashed by our own failings or by factors outside our control, but dreaming is essential to realizing the beauty of life. Life is amazing and depressing and carefree and terrifying and full of hope and love and full of fear and doubt…But it is, in the final calculus, beautiful and an incredible gift. And we must keep on dreaming."
With producer Jacob Hansen - whose credits include releases from the likes of Primal Fear, Epica, Volbeat, Amaranthe, and Evergrey - on board, the guitars and bass were tracked in van Dyk's home studio, drum tracks at Quirarte's home studio, and Englund tracked the majority of his vocals in Sweden, with a ten-hour session in LA all that was required to put the finishing touches on his "phenomenal" performance. Absent from the band's lineup is lead guitarist Bernie Versailles, who suffered an aneurysm in 2014, and has since been focusing on his recovery. "Bernie is happy, living with family, and continuing to recover; he's still a very musical person, but he isn't at this time up to recording and performing. We do miss him terribly, on a day-to-day basis, and there has never been a kinder, nicer, more guileless person in the Redemption universe. We of course all continue to wish for his full recovery, good health and happiness." Long Night's Journey Into Day does however see the quartet collaborating with guitarists Simone Mularoni (DGM/Empyrios), and the legendary Chris Poland, both of whom also supplied astounding leads on The Art Of Loss. "Simone is an incredibly gifted lead guitarist who played his ass off on 'The Art of Loss' and does the same on this record, and Chris Poland is simply one of the most unique and talented musicians in the history of metal. His musical sensibilities are singular in this genre, and they push our music into areas that no other guitarist in metal could do. We are very lucky to have him involved in a second record of ours." Alongside these longtime collaborators they also recruited keyboardist Vikram Shankar, who van Dyk asserts "may be the most talented musician I have ever met. Tom introduced me to him and we got along well immediately. He has a similar approach to music in terms of voicings and how keyboards add to music in the right way. Vik joined the project at the eleventh hour but made important contributions nonetheless; I expect he will play a more significant role in Redemption in the future."
When it came to backing up the music with visuals, the band once again turned to a longtime collaborator, Travis Smith, whose humbling resumé includes records by bands such as Art Of Defiance, Opeth and Iced Earth. "Most of the time, I will have a fairly good idea of what I want the cover to be and he will take it from there. Here, all I had was the title at first. Travis came up with this wonderful front cover that looks almost like a complex watercolor painting, showing a rickety wooden staircase spiraling towards a brighter dawn, and as the production of the record dragged out, I had the idea of complementing the front with a back cover showing a side-view of a man descending the stairs with hands trying to trip him or drag him down, or otherwise prevent his safe passage. It's a good metaphor for our own failings, life's curveballs and the actions of others who don't have our best interests in mind."
With live dates across the US in the offing - including a headlining slot at Atlanta's Progpower Festival in the fall, which may be recorded for a live album and/or DVD - van Dyk is enthused to play the new songs, and for people to hear Englund's renditions of their older ones. "We're so excited to take this music on the road – it's been too long since we were able to play out. And then shortly after Progpower, I imagine I'll return to writing new material. I've got some concepts for songs forming already, and my goal is to have much less time pass in between records this time out."
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Sounds good but I'm going to miss Rey. I wasn't a huge fan of The Art of Loss which seemed bland and it's clear the band needed a change. This band had an amazing run between Fullness of Time and Snowfall on Judgement day. After two weaker releases I hope this album gets them back to their top potential.
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I'm giving the new song a little time to sink in before forming an opinion, but I gotta say the artwork kicks ass!! Also, I'm happy to hear they are planning to tour. :)
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Is this song the first anyone has heard with Tom and Redemption together? I haven't been following, so it is for me. But listening along, I really like the heaviness, and I see why Tom's voice will work for the band. Not sure what I think about it yet.
Still not an automatic buy. But I will put in the listening and see if things grab me. Best I can do. Again, respect to Nick, Tom, and everyone involved. Just a personal thing, like all music is. But I dig the song.
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Lol I didn't even know Ray Alder was gone and now they have a new album coming out. I assumed it was going to take like 4 years (at least) before the next one. Also, their website is ridiculously out of date. Tom sounds pretty similar to Ray anyway so it makes sense for him to be the replacement. Also, that production is easily the best they've ever had. Those lyrics are cringe though, Not very subtle. Even taking the political element out, it just flows awkwardly. Great otherwise.
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I didn't quite like The Art of Loss when it was released, but I love it now. Almost every song is fantastic.
I'm not quite sure about this song, to be honest. Maybe I'm just used to Ray. I'll try it again later and see if it clicks.
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Maybe I'm just used to Ray. I'll try it again later and see if it clicks.
Ray is definitely more dynamic. Tom works in Everygrey but he can sometimes be a little monotone and dull.
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Is this song the first anyone has heard with Tom and Redemption together? I haven't been following, so it is for me. But listening along, I really like the heaviness, and I see why Tom's voice will work for the band. Not sure what I think about it yet.
Still not an automatic buy. But I will put in the listening and see if things grab me. Best I can do. Again, respect to Nick, Tom, and everyone involved. Just a personal thing, like all music is. But I dig the song.
Oh you like it. Go buy it.
I think this is the first debut of Redemption and Tom - I haven't heard anything prior, and it's as awesome as I thought it would be. The riffs are beefed up a bit and Tom sounds awesome, as I knew he would. Because unlike you, I love Evergrey and Tom's vocals and had zero doubt. :)
The production is awesome though. Certainly less "dry" than some of their albums have sounded. And that artwork is cool! So much better than the wineglass on the last record.
:metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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I'm of the opinion that Art of Loss was Art of Bland (although, given Ruslan's comment, I may give it another chance). I'm a big Evergrey fan, so Tom + Redemption works just fine for me.
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Maybe I'm just used to Ray. I'll try it again later and see if it clicks.
Ray is definitely more dynamic. Tom works in Everygrey but he can sometimes be a little monotone and dull.
Bingo, yeah, that was what I was searching for. But again, its just the first song. I'll listen to a few others, and then decide whether to buy it.
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I'm of the opinion that Art of Loss was Art of Bland (although, given Ruslan's comment, I may give it another chance). I'm a big Evergrey fan, so Tom + Redemption works just fine for me.
I'm also a big Evergrey fan, so there's that.
I think what really attracts me in Art of Loss now is the (for a lack of better word) warmth of the record—what you get past the first two songs, that is. The title track is alright as an energetic opener and Slouching Towards Bethlehem I just can't stand. There are good moments (twenty centuries of sleep passage in the second half), but overall I don't like how plodding this track is.
But when you get past the first two tracks, that's where, in my opinion, the great stuff begins. The run from Damaged to Thirty Silver is excellent, and Hope Dies Last rivals Memory and Black and White World in my book for the best Redemption songs.
The Center of the Fire was a weird one, because I kept losing my attention at this song, and one day (and that was actually the thing that led me to revisit the album) I had those four beautiful "don't walk awaaay" ad-libs stuck in my head and I just couldn't remember which song was it. I actually considered asking that on DTF but then realized that was Ray's voice and checked some Redemption songs to find out it was from Art of Loss. :lol I enjoy this song a lot now.
The cover is, well, a cover (even though it's cool to hear Ray doing different stuff than he usually does on this album), and the epic was a bit too much to digest on my first few listens, but I appreciate it a lot now. Maybe it could've been a bit shorter, but it's very good still.
I just wrote a fanboy post about The Art of Loss, something I never thought I would do if you asked me two years ago when this album was out. :lol I love music.
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At first listen it feels more like I'm hearing a more technical version of Evergrey. This might take some time but I'm pretty sure I will enjoy this album.
Production is pretty good, especially the drum sound.
Let's hope they don't forget to take the plane to Europe when touring.
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Maybe I'm just used to Ray. I'll try it again later and see if it clicks.
Ray is definitely more dynamic. Tom works in Everygrey but he can sometimes be a little monotone and dull.
Bingo, yeah, that was what I was searching for. But again, its just the first song. I'll listen to a few others, and then decide whether to buy it.
He always sounds exactly the same though in Evergrey, so I don't think other songs are going to make up for this, unless he completely surprises us and goes out of his comfort zone. He's one of those singers who is super-unique, but never moves out of the niche he's created for himself.
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Nope.. NOPE. I guess Redemption is dead to me now. Not feeling it... maybe another track will change my mind later.
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After two listens, preliminary reaction is: I REALLY like this song. I've never been an Evergrey fan, so I'm not that familiar with them or Tom's voice, and I had some trepidation about whether he would be a good fit. Nothing against Tom specifically--it is more that I was very sad to see Ray go, and I had some trepidation about anyone but Ray singing for this band. And just knowing that this is a Redemption song, I found myself subconsciously disappointed that it wasn't Ray's voice. But Tom sounds good here, and his voice fits the music nicely. If this song is typical of what will be on the album (and I am sure it is), I have no doubt that I will be a happy fan. I am REALLY looking forward to this now.
Reading that long description and Nick's comments, I am again reminded of a big part of why I have been drawn to this band ever since hearing Snowfall. Nick just strikes me as such a genuine person, and that comes across every time I read something from him, whether it is song lyrics or a press release, or whatever.
I hope Nick posts here, as he has occasionally done with former releases (although I am saddened by the fact that he has apparently been annoyed with my posts in the past where my reviews have been mixed, even though I have tried very hard to keep any criticism very objective and constructive, and I have always had tons of praised mixed in with any criticisms I have had).
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So this is how I feel..
As much as I love Ray's voice, and he did have the ability to convey Nick's emotion, I honestly have always felt that Redemption's music needed a stronger heavier voice.
While I kind of welcomed the change (other than the fact that any Redemption Mix CD with now have THREE voices), I was disappointed to hear that it was Tom Englund. I do not care for his voice, delivery, and I am not a fan or Everygrey for mostly those reasons.
After listening to the song a couple of times, I am not impressed at all with the vocals. The music is classic Redemption, which means it's awesome, but in the background, I could definitely hear Ray singing this. But honestly, it felt like a vocal demo simply holding the spot until the actual vocalist comes in to record the real thing.
Redemption needs someone who can convey emotion, which Ray could do, even though he wasn't a perfect fit to the music for me.
I'd love to hear John Bush sing a Redemtion track.
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I am not impressed at all with the vocals. The music is classic Redemption, which means it's awesome, but in the background, I could definitely hear Ray singing this.
Pretty much this. After the track ended I put on some Fates with Ray singing to wash the Englund out of my ears.
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I don't know Redemption or Evergrey's music, but I like this song. Pretty solid musically. The vocals aren't amazing, but solid and do the job. They don't annoy me in anyway. Kind of basic, but that's OK the music speaks for itself and doens't need the vocals to be a beast. I am digging this. Just a progpower attendee so I've been wanting to get into Redemption so I can enjoy their set, this may have done it. I'm on my third listen now.
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Music, top notch! Vocals, dull and flat. I'll have to hear a lot more before I buy this. Sad, because Redemption had become a first-day buy for me.
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Yeah, those new vocals are gonna take some getting used to. I really enjoyed that song musically though, would have loved to hear it with Ray's voice.
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Thoughts from initial listen:
-That acoustic intro is really kind of terrible. Sounds like a disjointed mess.
-Drumming is the highlight of the song for me. Not something I say often.
-Mixing and production sounds really tight, crisp, and focused. It's a good sounding song even if the composition is a little off. Drums are a hair loud though.
-Riffs are okay. Not great, not terrible. Just okay.
-Vocals are fine. I'm not too beat up about their choice, but it doesn't make me want to pick up Everygrey records. Fits the music at least.
-Outro went on for a bit long it felt.
-Overall pretty forgettable, but not bad. Just kinda vanilla.
Haven't been the hugest fan of Redemption so far outside of Snowfall, and this hasn't really changed my opinion at all.
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-Drumming is the highlight of the song for me. Not something I say often.
Drumming is the highlight of every Redemption song. I was kind of hoping Quiarte (sp?) might've joined DT when MP left.
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After first listen...
The song was alright. I didn't mind Toms vocals, I only know him from Ayreon. I'll likely buy this as I enjoy Redemption. Although none of the recent ones beats Snowfall on Judgement Day, that album is just amazing.
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This sounded a bit like Tom doing his best Ray impression. He's holding back on the song quite a bit, hope he goes nuttier in the other but I dig it. The only thing I am disappointed at is that the song would fit Ray's voice perfectly as well, did Ray not write his vocal melodies for Redemption?
The intro was my favourite part.
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I love evergrey. I like this new song, so interesting hearing his voice over Redemption material
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This sounded a bit like Tom doing his best Ray impression. He's holding back on the song quite a bit, hope he goes nuttier in the other but I dig it. The only thing I am disappointed at is that the song would fit Ray's voice perfectly as well, did Ray not write his vocal melodies for Redemption?
No I'm pretty sure Nick writes the vocal melodies
I agree that Tom sounds like he's holding back. He sounds much better with Evergrey.
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I'm of the opinion that Art of Loss was Art of Bland..
You're not alone in that. The last album of theirs that really stuck with me was Snowfall. Despite repeated listens, I can't recall a single song put out in the time since.
This song, I like the music besides that really weird and off-putting acoustic intro. I've never heard the singer before, but his singing isn't really grabbing me. I don't know if that's just how he sings all the time but sounds kind of... phoned in? Like that was the practice take and they used it. I'll still give the album a shot. I need to hear more of him.
Album artwork is really cool.
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Hello hello hello. It's been a minute, as the kids say. :)
Addressing a few comments, and not to be defensive:
1. This is one song. We're not going to lead with a 9 minute long song. It's (relatively) direct. Like it or don't, we are hard to capture in six minutes.
2. Enigmachine, sorry about the three years in between the previous two albums. Given we had a live DVD to produce and we lost one of our founding members to a brain aneurysm and wanted to see if he would recover and then had to find talented people to contribute in his absence, I feel the delay is explainable. :) More to the point, though...the lyrics...if you think they have anything to do with politics, the lyrics are more subtle than you might think. They have nothing to do with politics. I'd be curious to hear what you think they are about.
3. Evermind, thank you for giving Art of Loss a second or third chance. I do believe it is one of our best, along with Snowfall. I would encourage you to listen to the main solo in Slouching...I'd put that up against any guitar solo ever recorded. It's mind boggling what Simone does there. And the cover is pretty awesome...John crushes it. One man's non-objective opinion, of course. :)
4. Enigmachine again (re: the second comment) I predict you will be surprised at some of what Tom does on this record. He sounds fantastic.
5. Grappler, thank you!
6. Jingle.boy, glad you are open minded about Tom coming aboard! Also, "f*** you, Hans Brix!" :)
7. Samsara, a very sensible response.
8. Mindflux, appreciate your previous support. Hopefully you will find something else to enjoy on this record.
9. Bosk1, hello, and thank you! :) I don't recall being annoyed by anything so it couldn't have been that big a deal and bygones are bygones as far as I'm concerned. :)
10. TAC, when you hear Indulge in Color, let me know when you've changed you mind.
11. Cramx3, thanks for being open-minded! I hope you find a lot to enjoy about us.
12. Chris Hinton, I'm confident you are going to like this record if you like our other material.
13. Ninjabait...there isn't enough going on in the simple 4/4 intro for it to be a disjointed mess. You can say you don't like it, though. :) The outro went on as long as it did because there is a Meshuggah thing going on with a different accent passing through each of the notes in the riff and it had to cycle through.
14. Lethal, I do write the vocal melodies but Tom came with a ton of ideas including a lot of harmonies, quiet background parts and some subtle differences to the phrasing. He sounds fantastic, IMO.
Hope all of you are well and thanks for listening!
8.
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Great to see you here again, Nick! :D
As for the new album, this first song sounds pretty great. I'll need to get used to hearing Tom in the band instead of Ray, as he has a different "color" to his voice so to speak, but so far so good! :metal I LOVE the production on this song and the album cover is one of the best I've ever seen from Travis Smith (right there along with Death's The Sound of Perseverance imo).
I don't hate the past two records at all, but I'd definitely say the switch ups made for this album have sparked some new energy to the band. Not sure if it's Tom's singing or Jacob Hansen's production or both, but I'm pumped to see how things turn out with Long Night's Journey into Day! :tup
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Enigmachine, sorry about the three years in between the previous two albums. Given we had a live DVD to produce and we lost one of our founding members to a brain aneurysm and wanted to see if he would recover and then had to find talented people to contribute in his absence, I feel the delay is explainable. :)
I'm not meaning to criticise for the long wait, bands can take as long as they want. I thought TAoL was great so no problem for me. Was just a bit surprised when this one came so quickly. Apologise if that's how it came off.
More to the point, though...the lyrics...if you think they have anything to do with politics, the lyrics are more subtle than you might think. They have nothing to do with politics. I'd be curious to hear what you think they are about.
Interesting. I had assumed that they were a dig at someone in particular (I'll leave it there). Might've spoke too soon on that, might've been a knee jerk reaction admittedly.
4. Enigmachine again (re: the second comment) I predict you will be surprised at some of what Tom does on this record. He sounds fantastic.
Open to being surprised, I know what being in a different band can do to a vocalist. Looking forward to the album regardless.
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Song has some nice riffs. I like it.
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Thanks for taking the time, Nick. Really appreciate it and I'm still super hyped about the album.
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Listened to it once, and I don't think it's completely fair to pass judgement just from this. I think Tom sounds great and works really well with this track, but being a massive Evergrey fan for years now, I'm sure he will show more on the rest of the album. Saying that, Tom is one of my fav singers ever and I think he's one of the best metal singers in the last 10 years. I can totally see why Nick wanted him in the band.
The song too seems like a grower. The structure and melodies scream that it needs to be repeated to truly understand it, but on first listen, I'm very happy and optimistic about what is to come.
Riffs are great and production is awesome. I personally loved The Art of Loss. I agree on the first couple of listens, I wasn't quite sure either but it grew into possibly my second fav Redemption album after Snowfall.
In a day an age where I don't purchase many physical albums anymore, this is an auto buy for me. I think the combo of Redemption and Tom has heaps of potential just from hearing this and I'm really pumped.
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Many such themes are touched upon over the course of the record's ten tracks, all of which are as thoughtful as they are relatable. To reference but a few, "Impermanent" is about learning to adapt, and realizing that life is about growth and change and making the best of the moment, while "Eyes You Dare Not Face In Dreams" focuses on the doubts that fill the void when one's integrity is lacking. Then there is "The Echo Chamber", the second political song of the band's seventeen-year career, focusing on how social media has led people to only engage with those of the same perspective, and the loss of emphasis on learning from those with different views. "Indulge In Color", which van Dyk counts amongst the top three or four songs the band has penned, "is a sequel to 'Black & White World' [from 2009's 'Snowfall On Judgment Day'], which is arguably the best song I've ever written. Life is hard, but it's a thing of tremendous beauty, and it's up to you to live it to the fullest. Like the song 'Perfect' on 'This Mortal Coil' (2011) says: suck the marrow out of every day." The new record's title track also embraces and advances this theme. "We see a lot of dreams and hoped-for-outcomes dashed by our own failings or by factors outside our control, but dreaming is essential to realizing the beauty of life. Life is amazing and depressing and carefree and terrifying and full of hope and love and full of fear and doubt…But it is, in the final calculus, beautiful and an incredible gift. And we must keep on dreaming."
This subject matter as usual sounds perfect, and seems like just what I need at this time in my life. Can't wait.
So glad Simone and Chris are involved on leads again too, a lot of their work in contrast with Nick's was perfect. Doesn't seem like Tom plays any leads which is a shame but fair enough.
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I would encourage you to listen to the main solo in Slouching...I'd put that up against any guitar solo ever recorded. It's mind boggling what Simone does there.
Yes, absolutely. I had to rewind this about 10 times the first time I heard it. I've been playing for 20 years and this is indeed one of the coolest solos I've heard in a long long time. Figuring it out trying to play it is a bitch too, especially with the time signatures in between mainly haha. Good call Nick.
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I would encourage you to listen to the main solo in Slouching...I'd put that up against any guitar solo ever recorded. It's mind boggling what Simone does there.
Yes, absolutely. I had to rewind this about 10 times the first time I heard it. I've been playing for 20 years and this is indeed one of the coolest solos I've heard in a long long time. Figuring it out trying to play it is a bitch too, especially with the time signatures in between mainly haha. Good call Nick.
I can't listen to the song right now, is it the solo after "turns its pitiless gaze to me, to me" part? This is exactly where the song gets my attention back. I remember it being quite a jarring transition, but yeah, that solo is pretty great.
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Quite shocking listening to Redemption without Ray. Having said that, the song is kicking ass and Tom sounds great. Can’t wait to hear the whole album. Love Nick’s lyrics and songwriting he quickly became one of my favoritres. Consider me stoked for the new material :metal
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I would encourage you to listen to the main solo in Slouching...I'd put that up against any guitar solo ever recorded. It's mind boggling what Simone does there.
Yes, absolutely. I had to rewind this about 10 times the first time I heard it. I've been playing for 20 years and this is indeed one of the coolest solos I've heard in a long long time. Figuring it out trying to play it is a bitch too, especially with the time signatures in between mainly haha. Good call Nick.
I can't listen to the song right now, is it the solo after "turns its pitiless gaze to me, to me" part? This is exactly where the song gets my attention back. I remember it being quite a jarring transition, but yeah, that solo is pretty great.
That's it. It's around 4:20.
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I think the new song is fine - certainly enough to keep my interest. The vocals almost sound too clean/sterile for the music (my ears want some reverb or something :lol ) but anything that is quality and has some thought to it these days goes a long way to keeping me happy.
I was far more bullish on The Art Of Loss than most here and had it up there in my top albums of 2016. More my style than most of what I have from the older stuff.
Looking forward to the album.
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I think the new song is fine - certainly enough to keep my interest. The vocals almost sound too clean/sterile for the music (my ears want some reverb or something :lol ) but anything that is quality and has some thought to it these days goes a long way to keeping me happy.
I was far more bullish on The Art Of Loss than most here and had it up there in my top albums of 2016. More my style than most of what I have from the older stuff.
Looking forward to the album.
Definitely one of my fav albums of that year too Brent.
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8. Mindflux, appreciate your previous support. Hopefully you will find something else to enjoy on this record.
Nick,
Thank you for the nice reply. I did NOT mean to come off as harsh as it came across. I'll give the new disc a chance once it arrives! The reason for my harsh criticism comes from the fact I'm deaf in one ear and mostly deaf in the other. I wear a hearing aid in my working ear and to me vocalists I can understand are pretty much everything to me. If I can't understand what they are singing relatively easily I generally put it down forever. I can make out 95% of what Ray sings after a listen or two.... so far with Mr. Englund that's not happening.
Also Art of Loss is AMAZING. I have a few office co-workers with similar tastes in music and they all love it as well. You gained a few Redemption fans when I started raving about how great AoL is.
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Thanks for taking the time, Nick. Really appreciate it and I'm still super hyped about the album.
I know little about the band or Nick, but the fact he came over here to comment is pretty awesome :metal
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Snowfall is the only Redemption album I ever go back to and this song gives me the same feeling.
Curious to hear more.
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13. Ninjabait...there isn't enough going on in the simple 4/4 intro for it to be a disjointed mess. You can say you don't like it, though. :) The outro went on as long as it did because there is a Meshuggah thing going on with a different accent passing through each of the notes in the riff and it had to cycle through.
Man, actually getting a response (and a courteous one at that!) is a really cool thing. You guys definitely have my respect. I'll be sure to give the full album a spin when it comes out. As for my response to your response:
First off, this was based on my first listen and was more reflective of my initial reactions than anything. Although, the second listen I had just now confirmed to me a lot of the points I made. Although how silky smooth that guitar tone is jumped out at me on the second or third listen. Drums seem to fit better in the mix too.
Second, sorry if I came off as harsh at all. I probably didn't go into as much detail or explain myself as well as I should have. That was mostly a spit-take based on initial listen. Some things didn't work for me, some things kinda worked for me, and some things didn't work for me.
I don't know if it being simple disqualifies it from sounding messy. Listening again more attentively, most of the issues I'm noticing with it not working for me stem from that lead guitar part laid on top. Specifically, the rhythm of it. As it stands, the lead and accompaniment seem more like they're fighting each other than cooperating. The arpeggiated accompaniment works fine, and it sounds great with the distorted electric when the full band enters. It's mostly that lead part that bothers me. Maybe I was being a bit too harsh with calling it a disjointed mess, but it still does not work for me. Sorry :(
As for the outro, that makes sense. I didn't fully pick up on that when I was listening, but now that I know what to look for that section works a lot better. I definitely appreciate the explanation, though!
Also, if you don't mind my asking, who did the mixing/mastering/production on the album (or at least this song)? Besides the drums, that was the first thing that popped out at me as one of the best parts of the song.
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On Ruslan's endorsement, I gave Art of Loss another spin yesterday - and found it much more enjoyable than I remember'd it upon release. I was multi-tasking, and didn't really get to take in the epic/closer, so I'll have to have another go at it sometime soon.
@Nick... thanks for taking the time to stop in, constructively take the good and bad comments, and offer your own feedback. :tup
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It's always quite surprising when members of the actual band respond to feedback. It makes sense but relatively few seem to actually do it. Good on you, Nick.
I don't know if it being simple disqualifies it from sounding messy. Listening again more attentively, most of the issues I'm noticing with it not working for me stem from that lead guitar part laid on top. Specifically, the rhythm of it. As it stands, the lead and accompaniment seem more like they're fighting each other than cooperating. The arpeggiated accompaniment works fine, and it sounds great with the distorted electric when the full band enters. It's mostly that lead part that bothers me. Maybe I was being a bit too harsh with calling it a disjointed mess, but it still does not work for me. Sorry :(
There are quite a few layers of syncopation there, very prog but probably too much.
Also, if you don't mind my asking, who did the mixing/mastering/production on the album (or at least this song)? Besides the drums, that was the first thing that popped out at me as one of the best parts of the song.
Jacob Hansen, he's awesome. Produces bands like Anubis Gate, Epica and Pyramaze. Very full and atmospheric sound.
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Hello folks, and thanks for the polite discourse here. :)
I try to not be too much of a buttinsky because I don't want people to feel like they can't comment however they like and I never want to get defensive about this stuff, but this community and I go way back and it's fun to pop by now and then when we kick up a bit of dust. :) Funny, I don't remember coming by here after Art of Loss was released and maybe I'm glad I didn't lol. ;)
Re: the opening of this song, what Ninjabait is saying is a lead guitar is actually the bass. That part certainly does float over the guitar figure. It's not quite free form. You should have heard what Sean started out with -- believe me, I had to mold it a bit to get it to sync up with the 4/4. But I wanted to let him "noodle" around over that part. Perhaps I should have been a bit more demanding but I don't like to poop in anybody's punchbowl, so to speak. ;)
The production was indeed done by Jacob and I don't mind saying it was a bear to get this done -- it took FOREVER. Jacob delivers tremendous punch to his mixes and we obviously wanted that but it had to be balanced out with all the stuff that makes Redemption sound like Redemption. Some examples: in contrast to a bass part that tracks the root notes of guitar chords, our bass often plays counterpoint. It's an extended range instrument so the low end steps on the kick drum and the high end steps on the low end of the guitar. We've got a ton of keyboards, and you'd be surprised at how the frequencies of basically anything except violins step on other frequencies. Plus the music is busy to begin with.
All of which is to say Jacob had to very patiently adjust his signal processing chain and then ultimate spend a lot of time tinkering with me using submixes and sending files back and forth and being very painstaking about it.
I am happy with where we ended up, and of course now only hear things that I want to change...which I think is how it works with everybody. But Jacob was great to work with and as I said, very patient and flexible in letting us get to the sound we wanted. I have heard some say the vocal isn't loud enough in the mix...I must have different ears than everybody because it sounds fine to me (and to Tom and Jacob and the others in the band and the label) but maybe it's an artifact of YouTube compression.
If it IS too low in the mix...I have no doubt I'll hear about it from multiple sources once the record is out. ;)
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10. TAC, when you hear Indulge in Color, let me know when you've changed you mind.
Oh yeah, don't worry. I'm going to listen to the whole album. I hope my mind does change and I hope you guys brought something special out of Tom. I'm just not a fan of what he does.
I know I can count on the music being top notch.
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I love how you are providing awesome insight. I'm not a musician and I can only ponder about what goes on in the studio, but reading something like this:
I wanted to let him "noodle" around over that part. Perhaps I should have been a bit more demanding but I don't like to poop in anybody's punchbowl, so to speak. ;)
Is really cool to see the perspective of the artist and how things evolve and what ends up sticking. Also, from my experience on this forum.... everyone has different ears. I wouldn't get too worked up over comments about the mix. Unless of course everyone was shitting on it like Metallica's St. Anger, which doesn't seem to be the case at all, then I think it's just a matter of personal opinion based on one's own ears and their own training of their ears. Mix sounds fine to me, in fact, I would say it sounds "good" but always hard to give a definite mix review based off youtube.
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Re: the opening of this song, what Ninjabait is saying is a lead guitar is actually the bass. That part certainly does float over the guitar figure. It's not quite free form. You should have heard what Sean started out with -- believe me, I had to mold it a bit to get it to sync up with the 4/4. But I wanted to let him "noodle" around over that part. Perhaps I should have been a bit more demanding but I don't like to poop in anybody's punchbowl, so to speak. ;)
I was a bit on the fence on labeling that a bass or a guitar. At first I initially leaned towards bass, but the high end on that bass sounded super clean and I was like "nah, no way that's a bass". I don't know if it was the bass/amp combo, the eq, or his technique, but that high end sounds really guitar-like and clean. Cool stuff.
If there's anything I learned at music school, sometimes ya gotta poop in somebody's punchbowl. And sometimes you gotta let someone else poop in your bowl. It's a great learning experience to go for some sweet double-stop punch and find a nasty "violas can't play B2 mate" turd in it. You learn to approach the punch at a different angle, to get the sweet flavor you want while avoiding all those nasty turds. I'm not good at analogies.
And y'know, prog is all about experimentation. Trying new things and making new dishes. Sometimes you find that adding some honey really makes ground beef taste great, other times you put ginger in your PB&J. I don't know where I'm going with this, but point is don't put ginger in your PB&Js. It cancels out the other flavors and makes everything really dry.
I am happy with where we ended up, and of course now only hear things that I want to change...which I think is how it works with everybody. But Jacob was great to work with and as I said, very patient and flexible in letting us get to the sound we wanted. I have heard some say the vocal isn't loud enough in the mix...I must have different ears than everybody because it sounds fine to me (and to Tom and Jacob and the others in the band and the label) but maybe it's an artifact of YouTube compression.
If it IS too low in the mix...I have no doubt I'll hear about it from multiple sources once the record is out. ;)
Vocals sound fine to me. Mix in general sounds fine to me, but like cramx3 said everyone has different ears.
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And different speakers/headphones too.
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So cool of you Nick to come in and chat with us and give us some insight. Vocals sound perfectly fine in the mix and there is no doubt the album will sound awesome with Jacob at the helm.
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I am happy with where we ended up, and of course now only hear things that I want to change...which I think is how it works with everybody. But Jacob was great to work with and as I said, very patient and flexible in letting us get to the sound we wanted. I have heard some say the vocal isn't loud enough in the mix...I must have different ears than everybody because it sounds fine to me (and to Tom and Jacob and the others in the band and the label) but maybe it's an artifact of YouTube compression.
If it IS too low in the mix...I have no doubt I'll hear about it from multiple sources once the record is out. ;)
Hey Nick, good to see you again!
When This Mortal Coil came out the biggest criticism was the vocals being too low, but at least for me, after several listens, I got used to the sound, and the volume level of the vocals was fine. It's funny how that works. Tom sounds fine on this song, but I have to agree that it sounds like he's holding back a bit. Still looking forward to the album!
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After hearing Little Men a few times I'm really liking it.
Can't wait to hear Indulge in Color as Black & White World is in my top 10 favorite songs ever.
@Nick, any plans for a European Tour? Very much appreciated:)
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This thread inspired me to give The Art of Loss a listen a few days ago. I never had any complaints about it, just never really listened to it enough. Seems like a good album - need to listen a few more times probably, but I think there's a lot to enjoy there. I also don't quite get the comments about thinking Ray's voice was shot. He sounds good. I will say - not as good as he does on Theories of Flight, but certainly not bad.
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I guess I'm in the minority here. As indicated numerous times in this thread in the past..... I LOVE The Art of Loss.... to the tune that on any given day, either that, or The Fullness of Time is my favorite Redemption album. Furthermore, Slouching is one of my favorite Redemption songs of all time, easily in my top 5 with Sapphire, Memory, The Suffocating Silence & At Day's End. Love everything about the song, the bass in the beginning, the build ups.. the break downs... the story... the blistering soloing.
and when I saw the new album title... I couldn't help to think that this could be something to do with At Day's End.
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I'm not a fan of the epics just for the sake of being epic, but "At Day's End" is just so amazing and perfect to my ears. Maybe my favorite Redemption's song. Also, I think The Art of Loss is a great album. But, sincerely, their albums are very homogenous in quality and style, so it's hard for to pick a favorite... but I guess it's still This Mortal Coil to me.
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Probably an unpopular opinion on a prog metal forum, but the ballads were my favorite part of The Art of Loss. Redemption makes a darn fine prog ballad (case in point: my favorite Redemption song by far, Black and White World). Slouching Towards Bethlehem is probably my favorite non-ballad on that album because of the killer middle section. At Day's End is probably my least favorite song on that album. A big part of that is probably my huge pet peeve of bands quoting classical pieces in their music. I've never cared for that. Like, ever.
Edit: Listened to That Golden Light again just now. How is this not a hit? That is such an amazing chorus, and the solo is great too. Don't usually love shredding in slow songs, but it just works somehow here.
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Yeah, That Golden Light really gives me goosebumps everytime I hear it, a truly emotional song :hefdaddy
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I guess I'm in the minority here. As indicated numerous times in this thread in the past..... I LOVE The Art of Loss.... to the tune that on any given day, either that, or The Fullness of Time is my favorite Redemption album.
:tup They are my 2 favourite Redemption albums as well.
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/666313008/redemptions-upcoming-blu-ray
Let’s make this happen!
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Nice, I just reviewed it and plan on making a pledge. Since I'll be at PP this is something I'd love to be able to watch again (and again). Without even being too familiar with them, I want this to happen. :metal
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Nick should see about fixing the band title on Amazon:
(https://i.imgur.com/fSa5Dg8.png)
Goth!?
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"Indulge in Color" is available on iTunes now! :metal
Definitely one of the best songs I've ever heard from Redemption right here, I think. Granted, I'm still going to need to listen to it a few more times before I can give it an exact ranking. Tom shines here.
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"Indulge in Color" is available on iTunes now! :metal
Definitely one of the best songs I've ever heard from Redemption right here, I think. Granted, I'm still going to need to listen to it a few more times before I can give it an exact ranking. Tom shines here.
Also available here: https://redemptionband.bandcamp.com/track/little-men
Sounds pretty decent on first listen :coolio
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Instrumental playthrough of "Indulge in Color": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-AlPPfHBNc
I'm so happy they added a full-time keyboardist. I've felt like that was missing from Redemption since Greg Hosharian's key work on Snowfall on Judgment Day.
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Wow. Tom is amazing on this one!
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/666313008/redemptions-upcoming-blu-ray
Let’s make this happen!
Does anyone know how kickstarters work? As in, there's only 11 days left and it's not even half way to the goal. If I put money on this but it doesn't reach it's goal, do I get the money back? I think that's where I stand right now. I think filming the PP show is cool af and I want to be apart of it because I'll be there, but I'm not familiar enough with the band to put money on a project that won't happen. So if I knew I'd get my money back (probably just going to put 50 on this) if it fails, I'll do so now to help nudge this thing closer to completion, but if I am risking my money, then I don't thnk I am going to bother as it doesn't look like it will get funded.
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/666313008/redemptions-upcoming-blu-ray
Let’s make this happen!
Does anyone know how kickstarters work? As in, there's only 11 days left and it's not even half way to the goal. If I put money on this but it doesn't reach it's goal, do I get the money back? I think that's where I stand right now. I think filming the PP show is cool af and I want to be apart of it because I'll be there, but I'm not familiar enough with the band to put money on a project that won't happen. So if I knew I'd get my money back (probably just going to put 50 on this) if it fails, I'll do so now to help nudge this thing closer to completion, but if I am risking my money, then I don't thnk I am going to bother as it doesn't look like it will get funded.
If the goal is not met (all or nothing), the money goes back to you.
If the goal is flexible (under the goal amount), you get charged and product (in this case, blu ray) will be shipped.
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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/666313008/redemptions-upcoming-blu-ray
Let’s make this happen!
Does anyone know how kickstarters work? As in, there's only 11 days left and it's not even half way to the goal. If I put money on this but it doesn't reach it's goal, do I get the money back? I think that's where I stand right now. I think filming the PP show is cool af and I want to be apart of it because I'll be there, but I'm not familiar enough with the band to put money on a project that won't happen. So if I knew I'd get my money back (probably just going to put 50 on this) if it fails, I'll do so now to help nudge this thing closer to completion, but if I am risking my money, then I don't thnk I am going to bother as it doesn't look like it will get funded.
If the goal is not met (all or nothing), the money goes back to you.
If the goal is flexible (under the goal amount), you get charged and product (in this case, blu ray) will be shipped.
Thanks, after I typed all that I read the FAQ (although the all or nothing part is what confuses me), but thanks for responding and I just pledged 50 bucks.
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All or nothing just means if goal is reached, you get the reward. If it's not reached, you get your money back with no reward.
Flexible goal means that if let's say the 15k is not reached, but there are only 7k in pledges, you will be charged and the reward will be given/shipped to you.
Hopefully, the goal is met in this Redemption recording. Would love to hear the new lineup live.
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Yea, the all or nothing made me wonder if it meant I lost my money if it didn't get funded. Sadly my 50 isn't going to get this funded, needs lots more funding so that's sad if it doesn't happen.
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Yea, the all or nothing made me wonder if it meant I lost my money if it didn't get funded. Sadly my 50 isn't going to get this funded, needs lots more funding so that's sad if it doesn't happen.
Kind of sucks that it is not a flexible goal. However, a lot crowd funding projects are usually slow at first and the last 2 days things kind of ramp up. Hopefully this one does.
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Kind of sucks that it is not a flexible goal. However, a lot crowd funding projects are usually slow at first and the last 2 days things kind of ramp up. Hopefully this one does.
$10 for "updates from the band" are a bit much. There are usually a bunch of people that'll throw a couple bucks at a KS if they just want to see it succeed.
$50 for a signed BD is also too much. But that's just IMO there.
That said, with the inflated prices I don't see this succeeding. :(
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Kind of sucks that it is not a flexible goal. However, a lot crowd funding projects are usually slow at first and the last 2 days things kind of ramp up. Hopefully this one does.
$10 for "updates from the band" are a bit much. There are usually a bunch of people that'll throw a couple bucks at a KS if they just want to see it succeed.
$50 for a signed BD is also too much. But that's just IMO there.
That said, with the inflated prices I don't see this succeeding. :(
I pretty much agree with you regarding the prices. I did think twice before going ahead with the purchase. I think the previous campaign for Frozen in the Moment, was cheaper.
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
EDIT: Okay, maybe more like 40-50, but usually when they're on sale they are ridiculously cheap. Plus, the Dream Theater Blu-rays look amazing. That should be enough reason for you to get one :biggrin:
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
Yea, if you'd consider buying a DVD, I think it's time for an upgrade. Blu-Ray is pretty cheap these days and significantly better quality. I'm more annoyed by bands putting out DVDs and not blu-rays (Haken...)
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
EDIT: Okay, maybe more like 40-50, but usually when they're on sale they are ridiculously cheap. Plus, the Dream Theater Blu-rays look amazing. That should be enough reason for you to get one :biggrin:
I already have them all on DVD; I'm not buying them again. :P
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
EDIT: Okay, maybe more like 40-50, but usually when they're on sale they are ridiculously cheap. Plus, the Dream Theater Blu-rays look amazing. That should be enough reason for you to get one :biggrin:
I already have them all on DVD; I'm not buying them again. :P
#notarealfan :neverusethis:
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
Yea, if you'd consider buying a DVD, I think it's time for an upgrade. Blu-Ray is pretty cheap these days and significantly better quality. I'm more annoyed by bands putting out DVDs and not blu-rays (Haken...)
Well, but there you go.... it seems that stuff is more likely to be available on DVD and not blu ray than the other way around, aside from this Redemption release. Maybe if it seemed that everything was switching over I'd have no choice, but it doesn't.
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
EDIT: Okay, maybe more like 40-50, but usually when they're on sale they are ridiculously cheap. Plus, the Dream Theater Blu-rays look amazing. That should be enough reason for you to get one :biggrin:
I already have them all on DVD; I'm not buying them again. :P
#notarealfan :neverusethis:
#fanofall5bandmembers
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
Yea, if you'd consider buying a DVD, I think it's time for an upgrade. Blu-Ray is pretty cheap these days and significantly better quality. I'm more annoyed by bands putting out DVDs and not blu-rays (Haken...)
Well, but there you go.... it seems that stuff is more likely to be available on DVD and not blu ray than the other way around, aside from this Redemption release. Maybe if it seemed that everything was switching over I'd have no choice, but it doesn't.
It is backward compatible though so its not like you lose anything. To each their own though. If you don't have an HD TV either you won't notice the difference so there's also that.
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I think Tom sounds a lot better on this latest track than he did on the first one. I'm curious how the rest of the album will play out.
I haven't pledged for the crowd funding because it doesn't appear that there will be a DVD like there was last time, and I don't have a bluray player. If I'm going to participate, I'd like to actually be able to use the product. :)
You can buy a Blu-ray player for like 20-30 bucks. They're stupid cheap! Join us in the world of high quality video formats! :)
Yea, if you'd consider buying a DVD, I think it's time for an upgrade. Blu-Ray is pretty cheap these days and significantly better quality. I'm more annoyed by bands putting out DVDs and not blu-rays (Haken...)
Well, but there you go.... it seems that stuff is more likely to be available on DVD and not blu ray than the other way around, aside from this Redemption release. Maybe if it seemed that everything was switching over I'd have no choice, but it doesn't.
It is backward compatible though so its not like you lose anything. To each their own though. If you don't have an HD TV either you won't notice the difference so there's also that.
No I don't have an HDTV either - good point; thanks. :)
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:lol
You'd be surprised. Most everything is on Blu-ray these days. It's actually rare for me to find copies of things on DVD nowadays, every time I go into a store, Blu-rays everywhere, DVDs are all in the bargain bins. One day you'll convert, and then you'll be like, oh shit, I can see everything! And then you'll get to 4K Blu-rays and be like, oh shit, I can see every pore on LaBrie's face! That's AWESOME! :)
Oh yeah I forgot about the HD TV requirement. But that's more reason to get a killer TV, so you can watch all the hevy metull you want in super HD :biggrin:
brb mailing my TV and Blu-ray player to Lethean
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Don't forget about sound. Blu-ray has much better sound (but you'll also want a sound system :lol)
Nothing beats watching a blu-ray concert on my 60inch TV with surround sound blasting in my basement, about as close to being there you can get. You'll also want space from your neighbors :lol
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Wow Indulge in Color is excellent! Better than anything on The Art of Loss (yes including the epic) imo. Definitely looking forward to the album now.
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So let's see - not only do I need a blu ray player, but a new TV, a sound system, and oh, I have to MOVE. Yeah... I don't see this happening. :) Party at cramx's place instead....
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So let's see - not only do I need a blu ray player, but a new TV, a sound system, and oh, I have to MOVE. Yeah... I don't see this happening. :) Party at cramx's place instead....
DTFers are welcome :metal No one else wants to watch my concerts in my basement.
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So let's see - not only do I need a blu ray player, but a new TV, a sound system, and oh, I have to MOVE. Yeah... I don't see this happening. :) Party at cramx's place instead....
That's what tax season is for :neverusethis:
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So let's see - not only do I need a blu ray player, but a new TV, a sound system, and oh, I have to MOVE. Yeah... I don't see this happening. :) Party at cramx's place instead....
DTFers are welcome :metal No one else wants to watch my concerts in my basement.
Be right there. Just as long as Stadler doesn't show up with a stack of Kiss dvds... ;)
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The last campaign update was that if you want a DVD, make the pledge and just ask for the DVD once they ship.
"We've received messages from those inquiring about a regular DVD instead of a Blu Ray. So yes, we will have this option.
Send a message if you want the regular DVD version, and sign up for the Blu Ray version just as you normally would."
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The last campaign update was that if you want a DVD, make the pledge and just ask for the DVD once they ship.
"We've received messages from those inquiring about a regular DVD instead of a Blu Ray. So yes, we will have this option.
Send a message if you want the regular DVD version, and sign up for the Blu Ray version just as you normally would."
I might get on this then. The bluray only put me off.
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Wow Indulge in Color is excellent! Better than anything on The Art of Loss (yes including the epic) imo. Definitely looking forward to the album now.
Yeah, I'm actually a little surprised we're barely even talking about it in here right now! :lol Indulge in Color has this classic vibe about it that I love.
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Really like the new song. Tom's voice has always been a favorite of my mine and it works great here. Anyone know if Tom wrote/played any guitar parts or is he just doing vocals for this album?
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Wow Indulge in Color is excellent! Better than anything on The Art of Loss (yes including the epic) imo. Definitely looking forward to the album now.
Yeah, I'm actually a little surprised we're barely even talking about it in here right now! :lol Indulge in Color has this classic vibe about it that I love.
Yes, but is Indulge in Color as good as Black and White World? :metal
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Wow Indulge in Color is excellent! Better than anything on The Art of Loss (yes including the epic) imo. Definitely looking forward to the album now.
Yeah, I'm actually a little surprised we're barely even talking about it in here right now! :lol Indulge in Color has this classic vibe about it that I love.
Yes, but is Indulge in Color as good as Black and White World? :metal
Call me crazy, but I think I actually prefer Indulge in Color over Black & White World personally.
Really like the new song. Tom's voice has always been a favorite of my mine and it works great here. Anyone know if Tom wrote/played any guitar parts or is he just doing vocals for this album?
Yeah, I think this song is a much better demonstration of what Tom can offer the band as a singer than Little Men did. He gives a really expressive performance on this song.
As for Tom doing any guitar stuff, I don't think they've said anything indicating that he did. Not sure though. If not, I hope they opt to do that for the next Redemption album.
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Instrumental playthrough of "Indulge in Color": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-AlPPfHBNc
I'm so happy they added a full-time keyboardist. I've felt like that was missing from Redemption since Greg Hosharian's key work on Snowfall on Judgment Day.
I totally bypassed this when I got invested in the kickstarter and just listened/watched. Sick song, has that epic feeling to it with the instrumental section climaxing into that outro. But what's up with the guitar solo in the video :lol
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The last campaign update was that if you want a DVD, make the pledge and just ask for the DVD once they ship.
"We've received messages from those inquiring about a regular DVD instead of a Blu Ray. So yes, we will have this option.
Send a message if you want the regular DVD version, and sign up for the Blu Ray version just as you normally would."
I might get on this then. The bluray only put me off.
Yippee yay. :)
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Instrumental playthrough of "Indulge in Color": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-AlPPfHBNc
I'm so happy they added a full-time keyboardist. I've felt like that was missing from Redemption since Greg Hosharian's key work on Snowfall on Judgment Day.
I totally bypassed this when I got invested in the kickstarter and just listened/watched. Sick song, has that epic feeling to it with the instrumental section climaxing into that outro. But what's up with the guitar solo in the video :lol
According to the official Facebook page, the solo was from Chris Poland, who wasn't able to contribute for the video. They could have had Simone cover the solo for the video, but wanted to give Chris his proper credit, so they inserted a still photo of him playing his guitar while the solo went on.
Speaking of which, it's probably one of Poland's best solos ever. Reminds me a little bit of Alex Lifeson in his heyday.
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Will check this new song later. Really wished Tom played some guitar but it doesn't seem like the case. A shame, his leads are incredible.
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Will check this new song later. Really wished Tom played some guitar but it doesn't seem like the case. A shame, his leads are incredible.
Yeah, if Tom's not providing guitar work on this album, I really hope he gets to on the next go-around.
Also, CHECK THE SONG OUT. :lol :biggrin: Tom sounds awesome on it! :metal
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Just watched the video, did not disappoint. Absolutely stunning. Perfect in every way. Tom's voice is epic, like I knew it would and Simone and Chris being heavily involved is just excellent. So pumped for this album.
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Just watched the video, did not disappoint. Absolutely stunning. Perfect in every way. Tom's voice is epic, like I knew it would and Simone and Chris being heavily involved is just excellent. So pumped for this album.
Yeah, this song is going to be insane for them to play live. :metal
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Oh yeah feelin this new track a lot more than the previous.
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Alder is one of my favorite singers, but his mesh with redemption's music just never did it for me, so there fore I never really listened to redemption, but oh my god, Tom's voice is exactly what I want. I am loving this
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I decided to take a day to digest the song before commenting, and I gotta say -- I fucking love it. This is an absolute gem. It's seems like a sequel to "Black and White World." And Tom really shines. I feel like this song will be a Redemption classic in time. I'm really pumped now to hear him live on some older Redemption favorites. I'm excited, man.
Edit: I kinda wish the deadline for the kickstarter thing was after the album was released, so I could gauge how much I connect with this new chapter of the band before deciding which level package to choose, lol.
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Wow, when it said instrumental playthrough, I assumed it was an instrumental. :facepalm:
That song is fucking A awesome. So much better than the first one released. Still not in love with Englund, but there is more than enough "color" in his voice so that it in no way detracts from the song, which is what he does from the first one.
I can totally hear Ray singing this though, right?
Excellent. My interest is repiqued.
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Hello folks. Weighing in again on a few things.
First, very glad to hear most of you really enjoy Indulge in Color. I'm pretty fired up about how it turned out.
For those commenting that it seems similar to Black & White World...well, it is a companion piece to it. :)
We are very happy to have Vikram as our keyboardist. He can play the lines much better than I can, and he's going to be involved in composition moving forward and I think that is really going to elevate what we can do! But on this song, it's me on the record, for better or worse.
Tom and I discussed his guitar playing which is of course phenomenal. It was very important to him, and I respect it, that he doesn't want to play guitar in Redemption. We have to take as many steps as possible to ensure that Evergrey remains distinct from us and as a long time fan of Evergrey as well as a friend of Tom who respects his passion, commitment and energy as well as his many talents, I am fully supportive of this decision. So sorry to say, you will all have to make do with me plus Simone and Chris. :)
Regarding the pricing of the rewards on Kickstarter, yes, it's a bit more expensive than last time. Blu Rays cost more to manufacture and the cost of getting European musicians over here is a lot more than you would think...well over $5K just to have them join us. Plus you can expect the production value of our show to be pretty remarkable...and that also costs money. We're also hiring special light and sound people for the show; that also costs more money. We hope to provide tremendous value to our fans, but yes, some of those costs are being passed on in the form of the rewards. For those who enjoy the music and don't have as much disposable income to invest in helping the band put out the new product, believe me, no offense is taken. We are grateful for every expression of support, including simply the enjoyment of our music.
Someone was kind enough to point out what I wrote elsewhere...that obviously we could have had Simone play Chris' solo instead of having a still photograph of Chris...but Chris' solo is SO GOOD that he deserves credit for it. I agree with the poster who commented that it is one of Chris' absolute bests. The combination of his unique style and total shredding with the feel that emotion that he delivers is really remarkable. So that's why that is there.
And re: Tom's vocal performance, all I can say is: I told you so. ;) It's difficult to release an 8 minute track as the first "single" from a record, and I wanted something that had a ton of energy to answer doubters in that way, hence Little Men. But this one answers whether or not Tom can really elevate a traditional "Prog Metal" song from Redemption. I think he sounds amazing and I'm glad the majority of you agree. Ray is a phenomenal vocalist; I went after Tom because I know Tom is also a phenomenal vocalist. :)
And lastly, yes...this one is going to be a lot of work to play! We're fired up, though! :)
Thank you, as always, for your interest and support!
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Nick, will Simone be with you for ProgPower?
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Thanks for the clarification on Toms stance on adding guitar to the band Nick, being a guitarist myself I always felt he was very underrated in terms of his lead guitar skills and the thought of him adding some solos to Redemption was mouth watering.
Gotta respect his decision though and the reasons behind it, all class. Maybe you could persuade him to throw a quick solo or two on the next one. ;D
Again, the new song is incredible.
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Well I'm gonna be honest. I'm not an Evergrey fan and having Tom take over from Ray will take A LOT of getting used to for me. But being a Redemption fan, I will definitely buy it and work through it. I'm sure it's worth it.
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Regarding the pricing of the rewards on Kickstarter, yes, it's a bit more expensive than last time. Blu Rays cost more to manufacture and the cost of getting European musicians over here is a lot more than you would think...well over $5K just to have them join us. Plus you can expect the production value of our show to be pretty remarkable...and that also costs money. We're also hiring special light and sound people for the show; that also costs more money. We hope to provide tremendous value to our fans, but yes, some of those costs are being passed on in the form of the rewards. For those who enjoy the music and don't have as much disposable income to invest in helping the band put out the new product, believe me, no offense is taken. We are grateful for every expression of support, including simply the enjoyment of our music.
Regarding this: I understand BluRays cost money to manufacture etc etc. My primary point was "$10 to hear from the band"... that's high to me for 'updates'. Last I looked you had 0 contributors for $10. So if you dropped that to $2 and had 5 contributors, you'd have brought in $10 and the cost to you is really no more since you punch in an update on KS and it alerts all the backers, right?
I've seen a number of KS over the years that have had a decent number of backers that will kick in a few bucks just to see something they enjoy succeed, if the other items don't entice them enough to contribute more.
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Also about this, I wish there was an option to participate, purchasing the BR, but with a bit lower price. I really like Redemption, but I'm more of a "normal" fan. I sincerely would like to fund the BR, but also I would like to have the product for a more acessible price. If I make the US$ 50 option, to receive the BR at home, it will cost me more US$ 10 for the delivering. In Brazil, the taxing occurs for purchases from US$ 50. So this BR would end to cost me, for real, US$ 96. In brazilian currency this is really expensive, something like the price of a recently released double BR (special edition) of a Marvel's film, multiplied by 4. I know, it's an example of a particular country, but maybe there are another fans from other countries in a similar situation...
And Nick, of course, I'm not complaining. It's just a feedback that maybe can help Redemption to have more funders for this BR.
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Also about this, I wish there was an option to participate, purchasing the BR, but with a bit lower price. I really like Redemption, but I'm more of a "normal" fan. I sincerely would like to fund the BR, but also I would like to have the product for a more acessible price. If I make the US$ 50 option, to receive the BR at home, it will cost me more US$ 10 for the delivering. In Brazil, the taxing occurs for purchases from US$ 50. So this BR would end to cost me, for real, US$ 96. In brazilian currency this is really expensive, something like the price of a recently released double BR (special edition) of a Marvel's film, multiplied by 4. I know, it's an example of a particular country, but maybe there are another fans from other countries in a similar situation...
And Nick, of course, I'm not complaining. It's just a feedback that maybe can help Redemption to have more funders for this BR.
I was planning to choose the $ 50 option but wasn't aware of the delivery costs and I guess Dutch Tax Office also want their slice of the cake which makes it even more expensive.
I'll have to think about this.
by the way: Indulge in Color is great :tup
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Also about this, I wish there was an option to participate, purchasing the BR, but with a bit lower price. I really like Redemption, but I'm more of a "normal" fan. I sincerely would like to fund the BR, but also I would like to have the product for a more acessible price. If I make the US$ 50 option, to receive the BR at home, it will cost me more US$ 10 for the delivering. In Brazil, the taxing occurs for purchases from US$ 50. So this BR would end to cost me, for real, US$ 96. In brazilian currency this is really expensive, something like the price of a recently released double BR (special edition) of a Marvel's film, multiplied by 4. I know, it's an example of a particular country, but maybe there are another fans from other countries in a similar situation...
And Nick, of course, I'm not complaining. It's just a feedback that maybe can help Redemption to have more funders for this BR.
I was planning to choose the $ 50 option but wasn't aware of the delivery costs and I guess Dutch Tax Office also want their slice of the cake which makes it even more expensive.
I'll have to think about this.
by the way: Indulge in Color is great :tup
Since I did this yesterday, the final cost for me (in the US) was 55 dollars.
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Nick, will Simone be with you for ProgPower?
You were ahead of our announcement by a couple of days. Yes!!! :)
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Nick, while you're around and answering questions, here is one important to me as I look to budget the rest of the year's vacation time:
How are things looking for a tour/shows at places other than ProgPower? I have tickets, fully intended on going, but two of my other three most anticipated acts (James LaBrie and Kingcrow) both canceled. Would love to see you guys in the Northeast and be able to use that week on other plans. A greedy question, but much appreciated if you have any insight!
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Nick, while you're around and answering questions, here is one important to me as I look to budget the rest of the year's vacation time:
How are things looking for a tour/shows at places other than ProgPower? I have tickets, fully intended on going, but two of my other three most anticipated acts (James LaBrie and Kingcrow) both canceled. Would love to see you guys in the Northeast and be able to use that week on other plans. A greedy question, but much appreciated if you have any insight!
There are still moving pieces but I think it's not looking likely that we will be in the Northeast this year, unfortunately.
ProgPower is going to be a special performance. You won't regret coming.
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Nick, will Simone be with you for ProgPower?
You were ahead of our announcement by a couple of days. Yes!!! :)
:) :metal :metal :metal
Thank you. :)
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Nick, while you're around and answering questions, here is one important to me as I look to budget the rest of the year's vacation time:
How are things looking for a tour/shows at places other than ProgPower? I have tickets, fully intended on going, but two of my other three most anticipated acts (James LaBrie and Kingcrow) both canceled. Would love to see you guys in the Northeast and be able to use that week on other plans. A greedy question, but much appreciated if you have any insight!
There are still moving pieces but I think it's not looking likely that we will be in the Northeast this year, unfortunately.
ProgPower is going to be a special performance. You won't regret coming.
Trust me, very excited to see a full set from you guys, would be long overdue. On review I realize you, Labyrinth, and Sons of Apollo all play the same day, so I think worst case scenario at this point is flying down early Friday, watching all that, and heading back Saturday.
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Nick, will Simone be with you for ProgPower?
You were ahead of our announcement by a couple of days. Yes!!! :)
That's awesome.
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Indulge In Color is damn good successor to Black and White World. It's right up there with that song which is among my favorites from Snowfall on Judgment Day.
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Redemption added a new option on Kickstarter. Thanks, Nick, I’ll get this one for sure!
Pledge US$ 20 or more
Pre-order the Blu Ray itself
We have added a new option for those that want to contribute but don't want to spring for a signed Blu Ray.
Pre-order yours now for $20 and we'll have it sent to you, unsigned, when it comes out!
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Done!
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A few things real quick:
I am REALLY warming up to Little Men. As I find is typical with me and this band, I was initially left feeling like I wasn't really sure what I thought after a first listen. But it is sinking in and I am processing it, and finding that I really love it. Again, typical. But having the instrumental part of the song sound so much like Redemption and having someone other than Ray singing really threw me. But, yeah, I'm warming up to Tom's voice in this band.
Indulge in Color is FANTASTIC! As others have said, Chris' solo is a real standout. And Tom's singing is fantastic as well. Okay, I'm sold. :tup
Nick, did you get my email by any chance?
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I threw down for the $20 bluray.
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A few things real quick:
I am REALLY warming up to Little Men. As I find is typical with me and this band, I was initially left feeling like I wasn't really sure what I thought after a first listen. But it is sinking in and I am processing it, and finding that I really love it. Again, typical. But having the instrumental part of the song sound so much like Redemption and having someone other than Ray singing really threw me. But, yeah, I'm warming up to Tom's voice in this band.
Indulge in Color is FANTASTIC! As others have said, Chris' solo is a real standout. And Tom's singing is fantastic as well. Okay, I'm sold. :tup
Nick, did you get my email by any chance?
Thanks for the kind words -- glad Little Men is growing on you and glad you dig Indulge. I'm pretty pleased with that one, I mist admit. :)
Sadly, I did not get your email. PM me here, perhaps?
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I threw down for the $20 bluray.
Bit bummed you can only pay with creditcard. That sucks.
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Just contributed to the kickstarter campaign. So excited to get this Blu-ray, I haven't heard or seen anything live by Redemption.
Actually, I saw them live when they toured with DT (Systematic Chaos tour maybe?). But I hadn't heard of them and can't say I really paid any attention to them at the time (and remember zero about the experience). It wasn't until years later when a friend at work introduced me to them that I realized how much I liked them.
I am absolutely loving the newest song Indulge In Color. It is simply amazing, I don't even know what else to say about it. It's cool, my friend that introduced me to Redemption also happens to LOVE Evergrey. He must be in fricken hog heaven with the singer change... I'm optimistic about it for sure (but to me Redemption is probably going to be just as good with either Ray or Tom, as it's the song writing/melodies/lyrics that make it awesome to me).
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Looks like KS has made it past the goal line!
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I also discovered Redemption as a result of the Chaos in Motion tour. Saw them for the first time at the Baltimore show in early August. Saw them again at the NJ show and bought Fullness and Origins at their merch stand. Listened to them pretty much non stop for a few weeks and have been a fan ever since.
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Looks like KS has made it past the goal line!
:metal
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I also discovered Redemption as a result of the Chaos in Motion tour. Saw them for the first time at the Baltimore show in early August. Saw them again at the NJ show and bought Fullness and Origins at their merch stand. Listened to them pretty much non stop for a few weeks and have been a fan ever since.
I am pretty sure I saw them twice that tour and thought they sucked so hard. Now I wish I knew their catalog back then to appreciate it.
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Who wants to review the upcoming album?
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Who wants to review the upcoming album?
I'd love to if given the opportunity! :tup
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Who wants to review the upcoming album?
I'd love to if given the opportunity! :tup
PM me your email address
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It would be great if the promos were not openly leaked and shared, guys. I'm right here.
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That's not the case, I just PM'ed you
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Just watched the new music video (sent to those who supported the kickstarter, seems like it will be released for all soon enough though). Another solid song. Also, what a babe! You don't see that often in prog metal music videos (although I see Mr Ullaeus directed, and I can see how this looks like something of his work from watching so many Amaranthe videos). I'd probably rate Indulge in Color and Little Men higher after one listen, but it's a good song.
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Just watched the new music video (sent to those who supported the kickstarter, seems like it will be released for all soon enough though). Another solid song. Also, what a babe! You don't see that often in prog metal music videos (although I see Mr Ullaeus directed, and I can see how this looks like something of his work from watching so many Amaranthe videos). I'd probably rate Indulge in Color and Little Men higher after one listen, but it's a good song.
I don't see any email regarding new video and no mention of it in the KS Updates section ...
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Just watched the new music video (sent to those who supported the kickstarter, seems like it will be released for all soon enough though). Another solid song. Also, what a babe! You don't see that often in prog metal music videos (although I see Mr Ullaeus directed, and I can see how this looks like something of his work from watching so many Amaranthe videos). I'd probably rate Indulge in Color and Little Men higher after one listen, but it's a good song.
I don't see any email regarding new video and no mention of it in the KS Updates section ...
hm, I don't know. I got an email from Nick via KS with a link. Maybe check spam? Or maybe the dollar level means some people get the updates (I did the 50 dollar option)? I have no idea, the whole KS thing is new to me.
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Too bad it's the radio edit. The real album track is two minutes longer.
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Too bad it's the radio edit. The real album track is two minutes longer.
oh damn, how do you cut 2 minutes from a song? It must be missing some really good stuff, unless it was just some intro/outro music, but the song is fairly straight forward so maybe it's from the instrumental section which is pretty awesome here but a bit short.
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Missing is:
* Intro with key build
* Slightly longer drum fill
* Two different riffs after the main intro riff
* Bridge
* Technical section before the solos
Otherwise it's identical. ;)
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video reminded me of the 80's.....one hot chick walking around being hot while the band plays the song.
song was awesome though.
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The video is out for all - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQKHm_l-vcc
How sweaty were you guys or was it not as hot as it looks? :D
I like the song but I still feel that Tom was holding back and could have done a bit more on it.
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At least Patrick Ullaeus didn't arrange the cables in a circle around the band, like he did with several Evergrey and Arch Enemy videos over the last few years. That was starting to drive me nuts.
Awesome song though - great riffs and leads, though I think I'd agree about Tom. I love him, but maybe there are songs on the album where he really cuts loose and goes for it. The chorus seems very subdued and relaxed, but I can hear him in my mind wailing away on it.
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A note on Tom...
His performance is, intentionally on his part and with my support and that of others in the band, not supposed to sound exactly like he does in Evergrey.
A note on the cables...
Uh...don't look too closely. :)
On, and Abydos...yeah it was bloody hot out in that desert! We had a tent and a fan and cold towels but it was a long 10 hours out there.
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Next video in the desert - Hawaiian shirts and shorts, it won't be any less \m/ :P
I agree with you wholeheartedly with your and Tom's approach that he shouldn't sound like he does in Evergrey. But knowing that he can do more than that, it felt a little underwhelming, especially in the chorus. But I'm sure I'll get used to that after my initial expectations are out of the way and the song starts to sink in and I begin to appreciate it on its own merit.
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Missing is:
* Intro with key build
* Slightly longer drum fill
* Two different riffs after the main intro riff
* Bridge
* Technical section before the solos
Otherwise it's identical. ;)
It did feel like a sudden start. Good song though, Tom is sounding good. Can't wait to hear him sing the older songs at ProgPower in Sept.
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Next video in the desert - Hawaiian shirts and shorts, it won't be any less \m/ :P
I agree with you wholeheartedly with your and Tom's approach that he shouldn't sound like he does in Evergrey. But knowing that he can do more than that, it felt a little underwhelming, especially in the chorus. But I'm sure I'll get used to that after my initial expectations are out of the way and the song starts to sink in and I begin to appreciate it on its own merit.
The other thing to keep in mind is that while these songs and melodies fit Tom's range, his range of full-throated angst may be a subset of his overall range. :)
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I think abydos is probably right that we're going to have to take some time to get used to Tom's vocals with Redemption. Right now it does just seem like he's restrained and something isn't quite right, but I'm willing to see how it grows.
For what it's worth, I think Ray still sounded like Ray in Redemption, but there were no issues with anything sounding too much like Fates Warning. I think Tom could just let loose and be himself and it would be fine.
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Any chance of The Poker's Rake Trilogy being played live? Maybe just Love Kills Us All/Life in One Day?
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Someone Else’s Problem isn’t a bad song, but I don’t like it. :-[ Indulge in Color was so great, so I guess my expectations were too high.
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In streaming service, someone else’s problem is in its complete version :tup
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In streaming service, someone else’s problem is in its complete version :tup
Yeah, I got the full song on iTunes yesterday. Much, much more satisfying in its full length- although I totally get the necessities of trimming down a longer song for a single/music video version.
I’m actually kind of surprised Someone Else’s Problem isn’t the album opener. The full 90 second long opening sequence would have made for one epic opening with its buildup!
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Yeah, I got the full song on iTunes yesterday. Much, much more satisfying in its full length- although I totally get the necessities of trimming down a longer song for a single/music video version.
What are the necessities of trimming down the song? Especially if you say the full length is more satisfying. I understand for radio or past MTV airplay, but in the world of youtube videos and unlimited length people's leisure of skipping through videos, what is the reason today to trim down a prog metal song? Maybe in video production costs? An extra 2 minutes of video means x amount of dollars cost maybe?
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Yeah, I got the full song on iTunes yesterday. Much, much more satisfying in its full length- although I totally get the necessities of trimming down a longer song for a single/music video version.
What are the necessities of trimming down the song? Especially if you say the full length is more satisfying. I understand for radio or past MTV airplay, but in the world of youtube videos and unlimited length people's leisure of skipping through videos, what is the reason today to trim down a prog metal song? Maybe in video production costs? An extra 2 minutes of video means x amount of dollars cost maybe?
We had plenty of footage to do a longer video.
Satellite radio plays music. And the label has a lot of data that shows people tune out (literally and/or figuratively) with long introductions. I had to push to get Indulge in Color released as our second video. And even now, when people are into it more than the first video which is shorter, it has a third of the views. So they are on to something.
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I was hoping you'd respond since you'd give a real answer that makes sense, not just one of us guessing. Hard to argue against the data, that is interesting though. I kind of figured this genre of music would be more accepting to the full song. Also, I don't have satellite radio so didn't really think of that as an option. Thanks for the response.
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I kind of figured this genre of music would be more accepting to the full song.
Fans of the genre already probably are. But I think with a video edit they're trying to reach beyond that. Maybe some will only ever be interested in the shorter songs, but if it gets them talking and sharing, that's something. Still others might start with the shorter songs and then find they like the longer tracks too. Everyone has to start somewhere.
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In streaming service, someone else’s problem is in its complete version :tup
Love love love the long version! Wow! Classic Redemption! :metal
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Can that girl be in every video?
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Just watched it. I think CHP should be notified that this girl drove from Malibu to the desert in under a minute. She can't possibly have obeyed the local speed limits.
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Just watched it. I think CHP should be notified that this girl drove from Malibu to the desert in under a minute. She can't possibly have obeyed the local speed limits.
Well, Nick did say that it's a Radio Edit. Maybe if they played the whole song...
...who cares. That chick can damn do whatever the hell she wants!
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Really good new song, something a different which is cool. Love the solo trade offs between Nick and Chris.
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New Redemption showed up in my mail today!!! Ordered from Metal Blade. Can't wait to dive in to it tomorrow (my best music listening time is during work). I read through the lyrics though, great stuff!!! Nick is a fantastic writer and lyricist.
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New Redemption showed up in my mail today!!! Ordered from Metal Blade. Can't wait to dive in to it tomorrow (my best music listening time is during work). I read through the lyrics though, great stuff!!! Nick is a fantastic writer and lyricist.
Got mine too, and the t-shirt! Can't wait to sink my teeth into this bad boy! Thank you for another new album of heavy, melodic and emotionally powerful progressive metal, Nick! \m/
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This album is fantastic.
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Bosk1 review of the album
https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/redemptions-long-nights-journey-into-day-is-a-progressive-metal-masterpiece-by-bosk1
:metal
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Bosk1 review of the album
https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/redemptions-long-nights-journey-into-day-is-a-progressive-metal-masterpiece-by-bosk1
:metal
to:dr version
This album is fantastic.
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Interested in hearing the album. I fully admit that for whatever reason, Tom's voice never clicks with me. I've tried a couple Evergrey records, and there is something in his voice that just doesn't click with me. Fantastic singer. But I am not sure how to put my finger on it. Glad Nick pointed out Tom sounds different than he does with Evergrey. I'll check out (buy) the new Redemption record in the next week or so (I have purposefully not watched any video or listened to clips).
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Bosk1 review of the album
https://lotsofmuzic.weebly.com/home/redemptions-long-nights-journey-into-day-is-a-progressive-metal-masterpiece-by-bosk1
:metal
Really enjoyed this review, bosk! Very honest and well-written. I'm extra excited to listen to it now knowing you loved it so much after your initial trepidation. :)
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Thanks! I just can't stop listening to it. It may surpass Snowfall as my favorite Redemption album.
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OK, so based on some minor listening, and bosk1's reviews, I ordered both Redemption and Michael Romeo. Should be a good weekend of getting into some new tunes.
Here's hoping Redemption tour (tours are hard to do for bands Redemption's size) extensively. I saw them open for DT in 2007 in Berkeley, Calif. The sound was poor for them, which was a bummer, but it was cool to see them live.
Coincidentally, Nick, since you are on here, are you against bootlegs of your band? If not, I have a mini-disc of that 2007 Berkeley show that I recorded (full show). But while I know it recorded (since I checked it initially), I since don't have a mini-disc player or recorder any longer, so I am searching for someone to pull that recording, master it, and put it out for folks to enjoy. I have no recollection on how it came out on the recording, as it was so long ago (the recording, the show itself had funky sound, but not sure if it got cleared up as it got recorded), but if Nick doesn't mind boots, I'm happy to send it to him if he'd like it, and would give me back the master, and the show on CD or .flac (or anyone willing to do it if Nick doesn't mind bootlegs).
Here's hoping I connect with Tom's voice a little better, and looking forward to hearing the new album. :metal
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So I got the Fullness of Time and am enjoying it. Redemption was one of the bands I knew of (since they toured with DT, although I didn't see Redemption on the tour) but didn't know musically and wanted to before ProgPower so after hearing the new songs, which I enjyoed, I finally started digging into some old tunes and definitely am liking TFOT. Still need to dig into it as prog usually take a bunch of listens to really appreciate the intricacies but my initial listens are very positive. However, I think I need to just get the new album and dig into that before exploring anymore. Looking forward to getting the new album. :metal
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Sonic Perspectives posted a great interview with Nick that offers a lot of insight into the new album, the Ray/Tom situation, and Tom and Vikram's involvement going forward, among other things. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KooPWPCEJM
The interview prompted me to check out some of Vikram's stuff, and I'm excited to see him more involved in the future songwriting process for Redemption. I feel like his keyboard work could really add something to the band's sound. Here's a beautiful cover version he posted last year of Everygrey's "Distance." Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvU_nJeo18g
In fact, I think the band should consider letting Vikram have a keyboard solo at their upcoming live shows. He can do a piano rendition of a Redemption classic or something for a change of pace during the show. It would be a great way to introduce him to fans.
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Here's a beautiful cover version he posted last year of Everygrey's "Distance." Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvU_nJeo18g
??? Where's the part that goes: "Reluctantly crouched at the starting line, Engines pumping and thumping in time, The green light flashes, the flags go up, Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup"?
@Mike: I am listening to that interview while I am at work, and am loving hearing Nick's thought process on a lot of things. In many ways, he seems very much like Bruce Dickinson in terms of his drive, work ethic, and his love for learning and experiencing new things, and pouring himself into them. I mean, he is very different from Bruce in lots of ways. But he has that similar trait that makes him fascinating to listen to. (and I'm not just saying that because Nick is keeping an eye on this thread) Really, really cool interview.
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Yeah, Nick was pretty much an open book in that interview -- it was a fun listen! I learned a lot of stuff about the band. I also liked hearing him discuss things like Redemption's cover artwork and Ray vs. Tom's recording style. This really feels like a new chapter for Redemption and it should be interesting to see where it takes the band. The increased involvement of Tom, Vikram and Simone Mularoni could equate to some great things for the band. Sound like the new album was written before Tom and Vikram came aboard, but they could have more input in the future. For those who don't know Simone, DGM's The Passage album from 2016 is an insanely awesome.
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For those who don't know Simone, DGM's The Passage album from 2016 is an insanely awesome.
Not familiar, so I just watched their video for Fallen. I had been under the impression that they were a prog metal band. But then I noticed that Simone is playing a telecaster and their drummer plays a 6 piece kit and only has 4 cymbals INCLUDING his ride and hi-hats. So they clearly can't be a REAL prog metal outfit. There's no way a prog metal band could have any cred with such a non-metal guitar and such a small drum kit. Such a shame.
:biggrin: Kidding, of course. They actually sound pretty good. After one listen, the vocals aren't really clicking with me. But I'll listen more see if they connect with me more.
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For those who don't know Simone, DGM's The Passage album from 2016 is an insanely awesome.
The first couple albums are just ok, but most of their discog is awesome-sauce.
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Great. After what was looking like it was going to be a year of extreme musical boredom, I suddenly have three new albums I need to buy (Redemption, Michael Romeo, and Neal Morse's live release) AND an entire back catalog to explore (DGM). My wallet is not happy.
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Great. After what was looking like it was going to be a year of extreme musical boredom, I suddenly have three new albums I need to buy (Redemption, Michael Romeo, and Neal Morse's live release) AND an entire back catalog to explore (DGM). My wallet is not happy.
But your ears are. So tell the wallet to shush.
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Great. After what was looking like it was going to be a year of extreme musical boredom, I suddenly have three new albums I need to buy (Redemption, Michael Romeo, and Neal Morse's live release) AND an entire back catalog to explore (DGM). My wallet is not happy.
Definitely work backwards on your DGM journey. Momentum and Frame are probably their best two (the latter being a top 5 AOTY in 2013 for me). Dreamland is the only album I know of their first 5 (before Simone joined the band), and I wasn't too impressed with it.
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Hidden Place is my favorite non-Simone DGM and it's a great album.
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I have Momentum. I never listen to it. It just doesn't stick.
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Momentum is one of my least favorites - of what I've heard. I think of the Simone albums, Different Shapes, Frame, and The Passage are all better. Different Shapes has a different singer than the rest with Simone.
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Bosk1 your review made it to Redemption’s FB page
(https://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah58/jorge_pozo1/6B4E90A1-80E0-4496-9614-E714A25A26A5_zpsybzdtooq.png) (https://s1377.photobucket.com/user/jorge_pozo1/media/6B4E90A1-80E0-4496-9614-E714A25A26A5_zpsybzdtooq.png.html)
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On first listen I like Long Night’s Journey Into Day a lot more than The Art of Loss. Very good.
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On first listen I like Long Night’s Journey Into Day a lot more than The Art of Loss. Very good.
So do I. Tom sounds so good on the record. The video for Someone Else's Problem worried me, where I felt like he wasn't singing like his usual self (thanks for the clarification, Nick!), but there's so much more to the album and he digs in plenty. His vocals are fantastic.
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So far, it sounds like what i thought it would. Evergrey meets Redemption.
Not sure how i feel about it yet. Ray in Redemption was just amazing. Tom sounds good don't get me wrong, just doesnt sound the same. I guess this must of been what it was like when Blaze Bayley joined Maiden. All i keep thinking when i hear the new songs is how Ray would've sounded on em lol
Fullness of Time was my first album of theirs i heard and still my favorite. But Origins of Ruin is a close second. I really don't hear anything on this album that comes close to those imo,
I'll give it more spins, maybe it will grow on me.
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On first listen I like Long Night’s Journey Into Day a lot more than The Art of Loss. Very good.
IMO, that's not a very high bar to clear. ;D Very much looking forward to spinning it in an hour or so - I randomly selected Romeo's album to play first this morning.
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Art of Loss is my 2nd favorite Redemption album... don't get the hate/lack of love.
Spinning the new one now. So far, so good!
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Holy smokes. This is becoming my favorite Redemption album really quick. The production is perfect...the guitar playing is absolutely insane (those rhythm guitars are just stunning). I think I can now "see" (hear) the reason why Nick went with Tom. The single left me very skeptical but man, Tom's voice sounds great in this new album. It would be interesting to see how Tom pulls off the old songs. Listening to Noonday Devil (the new album version) and frankly I prefer Ray's version. New Year's Day came out of nowhere and was a total shock (a really good one..excellent interpretation).
A previous poster mentioned that the new album sounds like "Evergrey meets Redemption". I really don't hear it (I'm a huge Evergrey fan myself). The signature Redemption sound is there (the crushing riffs, the lyrics and melodies. Even the drumming which is becoming an important part of the signature sound for the band). But Tom's voice, lyrics and melodies are like 90% of the Evergrey sound so I see where this is coming from. I just personally don't see that blend.
I don't know if Vikram played in the album but the keyboard department sounded very refreshing. That bass sound, thick and crunchy yet so clear. Seems like everybody stepped up their game in their playing and really shows in the overall execution of the album. :hefdaddy
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On my first spin. This is fire! I take back what I said about Tom Englund not being a good fit. I'll probably ALWAYS miss Ray but this album is no slouch and neither is Tom.
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I guess this must of been what it was like when Blaze Bayley joined Maiden.
I totally get the sentiment. But honestly, this is NOTHING like Blaze joining Maiden, outside of just the shock of hearing a different vocalist.
For starters, there was a drop-off in the overall writing in Maiden with X Factor. These Redemption songs are top notch and might just be their best yet.
Second, even though Blaze has a really nice voice, he was absolutely a step down from Bruce. I can't say the same here. Now that I am over the initial shock, I am LOVING what Tom brings to the table on this album.
Holy smokes. This is becoming my favorite Redemption album really quick.
I am starting to agree. This is definitely my album of the year now.
Here is a brief track-by-track:
Eyes You Dare Not Meet in Dreams: Very cool opener. As I mentioned in my review, after the kind of spacey intro, this song really hits the ground running just like the openers on the past two albums. I am starting to appreciate the nuance in Tom's voice. He has an interesting knack of being able to hit some aggressive passages while sounding smooth and laid back at the same time. The piano work in the background is stunning, and that holds true throughout other songs as well. The short breakdown at about 4:00 is really cool.
Someone Else's Problem: You've all heard it by now. After hearing Nick describe it in the video Mebert posted above, I now realize that it has nothing to do with what the subject matter of the video suggests, and the song takes on such a deeper meaning once you move past thinking that it is a "breakup song." It isn't.
Echo Chamber: This song initially escaped my notice, but is rising fast as a favorite. Once it gets to the main driving riff at about the minute mark, the song really settles in and is a joy. I love the lyrical content. It is political without overtly taking a side, and pretty biting in its commentary without being preachy. The vocal harmonies in the chorus are just beautiful.
Impermanent: This sounds kind of like "Redemption-by-numbers" in that is sound so familiar and typical of their style. But that is NOT a criticism. This song kind of shows that Nick is just really comfortable writing in a certain kind of way, and he has gotten REALLY good and doing it and translating it into a rock solid song. Great uplifting chorus that contrasts nicely with aggressive, dark sounding verses. More stunning background piano work, used very sparingly to great effect.
Indulge in Color: You've heard it. Just amazing. The intro soft guitars with the bass counterpoints, and then Tom's melancholy sounding vocals, and then intro of the piano set an amazing mood that carries through despite the many changes throughout the song.
Little Men: The third song that we have all heard. Being the lead off video, the vocals threw me (and most of us), hearing someone other than Ray delivering the vocal lines. So it took a little while for this song to grow on me. I have to say, it's pretty solid. I like the opening riff and the way it is used to begin the song.
And Yet: SO BEAUTIFUL. I really tried to pay attention to this song last night as I was driving, and I realized how few and sparing the lyrics are. Yet, they are so hard-hitting.
The Last of Me: I don't have a lot to say about this song. So far, this is the one that hasn't really grabbed me yet. Nothing wrong or bad about it. But in a sea of so much awesome, I just haven't had a chance to focus on this one and digest it yet. Now that the chorus is playing as I type this, I am remembering it more. Pretty catchy. There is also the briefest of piano runs that is almost a ragtime type of run that sounds really cool in context of the song.
New Year's Day: As I said in my review, I was a really big fan of the original. And yet, I may actually like this version better. REALLY nice cover. I have had it stuck in my head for days.
Long Night's Journey into Day: Fantastic album closer. It reminds me a LOT of the closer on Snowfall, which is a REALLY positive thing, in my opinion. I hold that song in very high regard. This song is a great snapshot of how Nick likes to weave dark and light together, despair and hope in a song, and how he juxtaposes both moods so well.
Sorry I can't help gushing about this album. If it sounds like I am not being objective and just being a fan boy...I guess I don't really care. :D Hey, I've said in the past where things don't necessarily connect for me. The last album took me a LONG time to warm up to. And even though I really like it now, I consider it the least in the Snowfall>Mortal Coil>Art of Loss run of albums. But this album just hits for me on all levels. There isn't any part of it I don't like.
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Holy smokes. This is becoming my favorite Redemption album really quick. The production is perfect...the guitar playing is absolutely insane (those rhythm guitars are just stunning). I think I can now "see" (hear) the reason why Nick went with Tom. The single left me very skeptical but man, Tom's voice sounds great in this new album. It would be interesting to see how Tom pulls off the old songs. Listening to Noonday Devil (the new album version) and frankly I prefer Ray's version. New Year's Day came out of nowhere and was a total shock (a really good one..excellent interpretation).
A previous poster mentioned that the new album sounds like "Evergrey meets Redemption". I really don't hear it (I'm a huge Evergrey fan myself). The signature Redemption sound is there (the crushing riffs, the lyrics and melodies. Even the drumming which is becoming an important part of the signature sound for the band). But Tom's voice, lyrics and melodies are like 90% of the Evergrey sound so I see where this is coming from. I just personally don't see that blend.
I don't know if Vikram played in the album but the keyboard department sounded very refreshing. That bass sound, thick and crunchy yet so clear. Seems like everybody stepped up their game in their playing and really shows in the overall execution of the album. :hefdaddy
I mean its the voice that makes me think of Evergrey. Musically, doesnt sound like em much at all. This album does sound good, production sounds amazing to me. Just weird hearing them without Ray. I'm glad they did more with keyboards this time around. One of my main issues with Art of Loss was, there were too many guitar solos and not enough keyboard like they used to have.
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This has instantly jumped into contention for AOTY. Wow, just fantastic. There are a few moments (particularly in Indulge in Color) that give me an Evergrey vibe, but otherwise this is Redemption through-and-through.
Insta-purchase.
I spun the new Michael Romeo album first this morning, and after listening to both ...
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/5cd437a39b339a00ba6aef7e2cdb6ca2/tumblr_inline_p8v08bYIhI1t54ksn_250.gif)
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Wish this was available as an autorip on Amazon. I am awaiting delivery of the record, but can't listen. Annoying.
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Wish this was available as an autorip on Amazon. I am awaiting delivery of the record, but can't listen. Annoying.
Yep.. not happy about that either (Michael Romeo's new disc isn't autoripped either.. grr). I'm listening to both on spotify.
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So I was afraid I'd have to give it a spin before I bought, and it was only due to the vocalist.
Made it only through halfway through Eyes You Dare. Holy shit! :metal :metal
Purchased before the song finished. :lol
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I told all you mofo's you had nothing to worry about with Tom. :P
Chow down
(https://rachelhopecleves.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/images.jpeg)
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Chow down
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6bf169a2a9fd2271ee8935c5da645070/tenor.gif?itemid=6159375)
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I can't stand U2 but I want to say my favorite track on the new Redemption album might be "New Year's Day"... if someone hadn't mentioned it was a cover of U2 I'd never had known.
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Just gonna come out and say it: this is Redemption's best album to date and a strong contender for Album of the Year (gonna wait to see what Witherfall and Teramaze deliver later in the year though). I LOVE what Tom's brought to the band vocally and the rest of the band is on fire here. :hefdaddy
I can't wait to see how the band continues to develop musically with Tom and Vikram on future albums.
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The album totally rocks! I'll be in the minority here and admit first impression (after one and after several listens) is as not as strong to me as The Art of Loss was when I first got that (but I hold that album to ridiculously high standards and it is probably my favorite album of theirs). I probably love Art of Loss as much as I do on the strength of At Day's End alone to be honest (w/ Center of the Fire taking close second).
But that said, it's a great album. There are no weak songs in my opinion. After several listens I'm pretty sure the title track will be my favorite, which is typically what happens (longest song is my favorite). After that, my next two favorites are probably Eyes You Dare... and Impermanent. I like how it sounds different than other Redemption albums. For example, this one is very heavy and progressive whereas Art of Loss seemed much more melodic.
Definitely album of the year for me, but I admit that doesn't mean much; I think I only got two other albums this year and I don't listen to either of them lol. I love Tom's voice and am happy with him as a singer. I own several Evergrey albums and this does not sound like an Evergrey album to me, at all. It's Redemption through and through.
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Just got my album, the three songs were already kick ass and reading these reviews makes me think this might be amazing. Looking forward to listening :metal
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I will say, I do kinda have some personal quibbles with The Echo Chamber. Musically it's one of the best songs on the album and I get what Nick is trying to argue with the song's lyrics and he offers some very valid points. Under normal circumstances, I think it's a potent song that is going to feel topical for a long time moving forward.
However, at the risk of diving too deep into politics where it's not supposed to be, I feel like there are times where certain groups in politics are flat-out wrong on a topic or movement and shouldn't be negotiated with at all or try to "meet in the middle." Take something like the Civil Rights movement in the 50-60's with segregation and voting rights. That's absolutely something that had a right answer to it.
I really hope I'm not being a spoilsport here, especially since I know Nick is here and reads our posts. Like I said earlier, Long Night's Journey Into Day is almost definitely my new favorite Redemption album. Nick and the band have struck gold here and even The Echo Chamber has a lot to love musically and lyrically... but I feel like it might run the risk of over-simplifying an issue? I really hope I'm not being rude about that.
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Finally holding a physical copy in my hands, and glad to be listening. I know when I get a promo, it is legit to listen. But I still somehow feel odd about listening until I have forked over my hard-earned cash so the artist gets theirs.
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I will say, I do kinda have some personal quibbles with The Echo Chamber. Musically it's one of the best songs on the album and I get what Nick is trying to argue with the song's lyrics and he offers some very valid points. Under normal circumstances, I think it's a potent song that is going to feel topical for a long time moving forward.
However, at the risk of diving too deep into politics where it's not supposed to be, I feel like there are times where certain groups in politics are flat-out wrong on a topic or movement and shouldn't be negotiated with at all or try to "meet in the middle." Take something like the Civil Rights movement in the 50-60's with segregation and voting rights. That's absolutely something that had a right answer to it.
I won't get into specifics because, as you noted, it isn't appropriate in this thread or this subforum. But as I understand the song, it isn't about a specific issue. And "finding common ground" isn't about agreeing or implicitly condoning something. It is just about having mature dialog. The "common ground" is along the lines of "let's discuss this like mature adults." Whether there is a clear "right/wrong answer" on a given issue is irrelevant to that.
And as an aside, as a general proposition, that is a stance I happen to agree with. No matter how "wrong" somebody might be, we should be able to discuss like mature member of the human race and show mutual respect to one another as people, even if we cannot show respect for the idea or position being put forth. It's about love and mutual human respect.
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However, at the risk of diving too deep into politics where it's not supposed to be, I feel like there are times where certain groups in politics are flat-out wrong on a topic or movement and shouldn't be negotiated with at all or try to "meet in the middle." Take something like the Civil Rights movement in the 50-60's with segregation and voting rights. That's absolutely something that had a right answer to it.
And when two groups are so entrenched in their own positions, feeling no need to talk or negotiate with the other side you get conflict. And conflict is not great, even when you win the opposing side doesn't just go "Oh, you were right all along!" as history has shown.
I listened through the album on Spotify and on first spin, I wasn't captured by anything too much. Full disclosure, I haven't been a big fan of the music past Fullness of Time and Origin of Ruin. Now that they have Tom, I hope they do more songs off the first album, though.
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I won't get into specifics because, as you noted, it isn't appropriate in this thread or this subforum. But as I understand the song, it isn't about a specific issue. And "finding common ground" isn't about agreeing or implicitly condoning something. It is just about having mature dialog. The "common ground" is along the lines of "let's discuss this like mature adults." Whether there is a clear "right/wrong answer" on a given issue is irrelevant to that.
And as an aside, as a general proposition, that is a stance I happen to agree with. No matter how "wrong" somebody might be, we should be able to discuss like mature member of the human race and show mutual respect to one another as people, even if we cannot show respect for the idea or position being put forth. It's about love and mutual human respect.
Okay, that helps me appreciate the song more. As I said before, I do enjoy Echo Chamber for the most part, just have some personal minor quibbles over what the lyrical content seemed to say.
That said, I think a lot of the stuff that's coming to my mind where I feel like the lyrics don't quite apply are situations where one of the conflicting parties are showing a lack of love and mutual human respect. How do you create an environment where dialogue and mutual respect can happen when one of the parties are outright refusing to do that from the word "go?"
And when two groups are so entrenched in their own positions, feeling no need to talk or negotiate with the other side you get conflict. And conflict is not great, even when you win the opposing side doesn't just go "Oh, you were right all along!" as history has shown.
True! However at the same time, it's not like some of these groups are willing to talk or negotiate over the issues to begin with, thus creating the need to force something to happen with one party kicking and screaming the whole way through. These sorts of conflict have existed well before the invention of the Internet and online forums/communities that have helped create the modern day echo chambers.
It's just a really complicated issue in general.
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After two spins, I find that I enjoy Indulge in Color and Little Men a lot more in context than by themselves.
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Um..OK..
Bought the CD but without autorip, I am now listening to this for the first time on Spotify. I couldn't wait for my mailman! ;D
First time through, Indulge In Color and The Echo Chamber are easily my top two tracks. I'm listening to the title track as I type this.
The title track's opening totally reminds me of Fields Of The Nephilim's Last Exit For The Lost.
This album is amazing. :hefdaddy
I don't know what else to say. Musically this is everything I want in music. Melodic, riffage, progressive. My favorite Redemption album to this point is This Mortal Coil, followed by The Fullness Of Time. But this. This album is amazing.
So the whole time, I'm thinking of the dichotomy of the vocalists, Ray and Tom.
I love Ray Alder. I can't stand the singer from Evergrey.
This vocalist change reminds me of when Anthrax replaced Joey for John Bush. I actually understood it at the time. Scott wanted someone heavier. Fine.
I love Redemption, but truth be told, I have always felt that I should love them more, if that makes any sense. And while I had my suspisions the whole time, I think I know what it was. As much as I love Ray, if I'm totally being honest, I never felt he was right for Redemption. While he definitely was able to convey the emotion in Nick's lyrics, he was just too silky smooth (read:not heavy enough) for Redemption.
While Tom does not come close to moving the emotional needle that Ray did, I find that the music speaks through Tom much better.
This album is amazing. Amazing. AOTY contender.
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Um..OK..
Bought the CD but without autorip, I am now listening to this for the first time on Spotify. I couldn't wait for my mailman! ;D
First time through, Indulge In Color and The Echo Chamber are easily my top two tracks. I'm listening to the title track as I type this.
The title track's opening totally reminds me of Fields Of The Nephilim's Last Exit For The Lost.
This album is amazing. :hefdaddy
I don't know what else to say. Musically this is everything I want in music. Melodic, riffage, progressive. My favorite Redemption album to this point is This Mortal Coil, followed by The Fullness Of Time. But this. This album is amazing.
So the whole time, I'm thinking of the dichotomy of the vocalists, Ray and Tom.
I love Ray Alder. I can't stand the singer from Evergrey.
This vocalist change reminds me of when Anthrax replaced Joey for John Bush. I actually understood it at the time. Scott wanted someone heavier. Fine.
I love Redemption, but truth be told, I have always felt that I should love them more, if that makes any sense. And while I had my suspisions the whole time, I think I know what it was. As much as I love Ray, if I'm totally being honest, I never felt he was right for Redemption. While he definitely was able to convey the emotion in Nick's lyrics, he was just too silky smooth (read:not heavy enough) for Redemption.
While Tom does not come close to moving the emotional needle that Ray did, I find that the music speaks through Tom much better.
This album is amazing. Amazing. AOTY contender.
Yeah, the more I re-listen to it, the more I think this album is truly magnificent. My initial quibbles with The Echo Chamber aside, this is still hands down the finest album Redemption has put out yet. In fact, after swallowing my personal problems on the matter earlier, Echo Chamber is one of my personal favorites on the album alongside Indulge in Color and the title track.
Tom fits the band perfectly. I love Ray, but Tom fits Redemption eerily well. I'm pumped to hear where this lineup goes next. Nick said in a recent interview this is probably the most talented lineup the band's ever had- and I'm inclined to agree with him.
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Mr. G, I saw your back and forth with Bosk yesterday. I didn't even hear the lyrics the first time through The Echo Chamber. I was too busy having my face melted.
I assume the lyrics will be in the booklet. I'll go through them when I get my CD.
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I finally got to listen to this. It's not better than Snowfall, but miles better than Art of Loss. Tom is great and the songs I wasn't keen on sound a lot better in context with the album, especially Someone Else's Problem, which I didn't really like at all, but at full length within the album it's great.
Some negatives though. I've been down this road before, but I won't go asshat 2011 on you. There are some reused riffs from Snowfall present and used multiple times. Just a pet peeve, especially when back to back songs contain them. Snowfall suffered this problem too. And before anyone says it, yes, I know Jon Schaffer does the same damn thing. That's the least of my problems with Iced Earth right now.
I really enjoyed listening to this album though. I was worried after Art of Loss, but I can rest easy. My little pet peeves aside, Long Night's Journey into Day is a great album.
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There are some reused riffs from Snowfall present and used multiple times.
I noticed, but it doesn’t bother me too much. Atleast they’re not taking riffs from other bands.
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There are some reused riffs from Snowfall present and used multiple times.
I noticed, but it doesn’t bother me too much. Atleast they’re not taking riffs from other bands.
In the Sonic Perspectives interview, Nick mentioned that some of the songs are companion pieces to prior Redemption songs. So re-introducing riffs or melodies isn't surprising and then links the two songs together.
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Spun this quite a few times over the weekend. It's a crazy wall of sound. The soloing is all over the place.
A great album from one of my all time favorite bands. I'm enjoying the callbacks from songs gone by, but all in all, this will most likely land in the middle of the list for my album rankings....but still really great music!
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I've finally had a chance to listen to this all the way through. Musically, it's excellent -- exactly what I would expect. Vocally, I'm just not a fan. Tom is obviously very talented, but I don't get the emotion or depth from his vocals like I do from Ray's.
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Ray's performance in Sapphire... you could hear the raw emotion of Nick's words perfectly.
Tom's performance on the new album... I feel like his voice is more seasoned (if that's a thing)..... singing Nick's words like a hardened, experienced person who has endured a lot.
Redemption's past is incredible, and it's bright future is in very capable hands.
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I'm listening for the first time, and I'm on "And Yet."
So far, I like it. I was very concerned about Tom's voice, as (respectfully), his voice never did it for me with Evergrey. And I have to admit, while this album is great so far, I do find myself missing Ray. But I am sure that will subside. Tom sounds good here. Different than Evergrey for sure (to my ears). Glad I picked it up. Looking forward to repeated listens.
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I've finally had a chance to listen to this all the way through. Musically, it's excellent -- exactly what I would expect. Vocally, I'm just not a fan. Tom is obviously very talented, but I don't get the emotion or depth from his vocals like I do from Ray's.
Same for me. I love the everything about the music, but just not feeling it with Tom. I just thought Ray with Redemption was the perfect fit. With Tom its just ok. I can't imagine him doing someting like Leviathan Rising or Death of Faith and Reason and having the same power and emotion Ray had. On other hand, stuff like Origins of Ruins, Let it Rain, Memory may sound good with Tom.
I will still listen to it sometimes, but its not the same imo. I've listened to it 3 times now and can only remember 1 or 2 choruses. Which is unusual for a Redemption album.
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I've finally had a chance to listen to this all the way through. Musically, it's excellent -- exactly what I would expect. Vocally, I'm just not a fan. Tom is obviously very talented, but I don't get the emotion or depth from his vocals like I do from Ray's.
Same for me. I love the everything about the music, but just not feeling it with Tom. I just thought Ray with Redemption was the perfect fit. With Tom its just ok. I can't imagine him doing someting like Leviathan Rising or Death of Faith and Reason and having the same power and emotion Ray had. On other hand, stuff like Origins of Ruins, Let it Rain, Memory may sound good with Tom.
I will still listen to it sometimes, but its not the same imo. I've listened to it 3 times now and can only remember 1 or 2 choruses. Which is unusual for a Redemption album.
Given that Leviathan and Death of Faith and Reason are among my least favourite Redemption tracks, and I consider Memory - The Origins of Ruin to be the best two-song run in their discography, I'm really fine with that, but to each their own.
I've listened to the album once, and I'll be spinning it again for sure. It's weird to hear Redemption music without Ray, that's for sure, but it still sounds like Redemption. Can't quite rank the album yet, it took me a lot to appreciate Art of Loss and I'll give this one more spins in the coming days.
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I'm very much enjoying the album so far -- and I feel like Tom's vocals fit in really great! I look forward to enjoying this album and its lyrics for years to come. And I'm quite pumped to see what lies ahead for this next phase of the band! :) A few little criticisms are: 1) The beginning of the title track is so good that I want it to go on longer and not abruptly stop! 2) As a keyboard lover, I feel like some of the keyboard parts could be a little louder in the mix; 3) I feel like the album is so heavy that it could possibly use another softer song.
But those things aside, the band totally knocked this album out of the park. Really, really, really well done. Redemption has probably released as many consistently strong albums as any progressive metal band out there, which is amazing considering that Nick has a full-time job and still manages to craft some stellar music. So impressive!
:metal
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Really good and very consistent album which will make my top 5 of the year at least. It may be Redemption's most consistent album but
at this point I'm missing the standout songs like Memory, Sapphire, Black and White World and Slouching Towards Bethlehem.
At this point I don't think it will make my top 3 of Redemption albums mainly because I don't hear the raw emotion that makes me comeback to Origins and Snowfall. Part of that will be Alder though I really like what Tom brings to the band.
I can't really put my finger on any other reasons but it might have something to do with the production. The album sounds great but maybe a little too 'polished' for my taste.
I will listen again in a few weeks and who knows the album continues to grow on me.
So far, 7,5 / 8 points out of 10.
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I will say, I do kinda have some personal quibbles with The Echo Chamber. Musically it's one of the best songs on the album and I get what Nick is trying to argue with the song's lyrics and he offers some very valid points. Under normal circumstances, I think it's a potent song that is going to feel topical for a long time moving forward.
However, at the risk of diving too deep into politics where it's not supposed to be, I feel like there are times where certain groups in politics are flat-out wrong on a topic or movement and shouldn't be negotiated with at all or try to "meet in the middle." Take something like the Civil Rights movement in the 50-60's with segregation and voting rights. That's absolutely something that had a right answer to it.
I won't get into specifics because, as you noted, it isn't appropriate in this thread or this subforum. But as I understand the song, it isn't about a specific issue. And "finding common ground" isn't about agreeing or implicitly condoning something. It is just about having mature dialog. The "common ground" is along the lines of "let's discuss this like mature adults." Whether there is a clear "right/wrong answer" on a given issue is irrelevant to that.
And as an aside, as a general proposition, that is a stance I happen to agree with. No matter how "wrong" somebody might be, we should be able to discuss like mature member of the human race and show mutual respect to one another as people, even if we cannot show respect for the idea or position being put forth. It's about love and mutual human respect.
Just quoting this conversation because my CD arrived today and I wanted to read the lyrics to The Echo Chamber. I assume Nick is talking about Trump? But honestly, I feel the lyrics are general enough where they could be talking about anyone in power.
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Just received the CD from Amazon.ca. The jewel case was all cracked and the disc was all scratched, so I had to order it again. Awesome.
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I forgot to put my digital download onto my phone over the weekend, but did so last night and have been listening all day to the album at work. Really like it, a lot actually.
However, the singer discussion is kind of meaningless to me as I only just started listening to The Fullness of Time a week or two ago. I find the styles to be really similar with the vocals, and I guess that's because the man writing the music hasn't changed. It honestly feels like there's not much of a difference besides a slight difference in their voices. I also don't know Evergrey so Tom's vocals there have no impact on my thoughts on Redemption.
Since most of my listening is while I work, I haven't been able to form strong opinions on songs, but the whole album is great. I recognized the U2 song as it sounded familiar, but I don't think I'd immediately know it was U2 if I hadn't read it here. Cool version!
It seems I need to get another album or two before ProgPower but I really might not have time to dig in fully before then, especially if I keep coming back to this album. I'd guess their setlist would be heavy from the new album with Tom though so I should know a lot of the songs by the time they hit the stage.
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Just received the CD from Amazon.ca. The jewel case was all cracked and the disc was all scratched, so I had to order it again. Awesome.
Paid for one day shipping and received my other copy today. Case was fine......... But the disc was loose in the case so it’s scratched. Awesome. Obviously I’m not gonna order it for a third time...
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From Nick (Kickstarter e-mail, spoiler of the live BR name and one song on the set):
"We have determined the title of the upcoming release will be Alive in Color...a play on the decision to "live in color" in our song Indulge in Color. I guess you can imagine that song will be in the setlist. :)"
The new album is really great and, although Tom's voice was a bit shocking at first, I'm really loving it now! Very different from Ray for sure, so it's hard to compare, but it's clear that Tom is a vocalist at the same level of Ray. This album is very different from TAoL, which was much more on the melodical and atmospherical side of Redemption's music. The songs on this one are much more heavy and intense, reminding me me a lot the vibe of This Mortal Coil - my fave Redemption album.
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Ok, after living with this disc for just about a week, and playing it once a day, I think it is pretty good. I don't think I'd gush on it like I did with Snowfall (which I think is Redemption's high water mark), but it's a really good album.
As I mentioned earlier, my concern was Tom's voice. And while it is different than how he sings in Evergrey, I still find myself not sold. Technically, he's a really good singer. Guy has tons of talent. But the tonal quality of his voice, to my ear, sounds much more monotone, and less dynamic than Ray. I mean, Ray didn't sing in the stratosphere with Redemption, so he was in one general spot, range-wise, as is Tom. But Tom's voice is not as warm as Ray's, so it just sounds...there...to my ear. To set himself apart, I would have thought Tom might have used some range, or perhaps craft some melodies that are a little more dynamic in what they try to achieve. Instead, what I hear is Redemption doing what Redemption does, with Tom on vocals, instead of Tom putting his stamp on Redemption.
Again, I LIKE the record. I'm just trying to be objective about it. When Ray joined Redemption, I felt the band really took a step up, vocally, and melodically. With Tom, I sort of expected a different stamp on things and that the band would go a different place. At least to my ear, it hasn't. It's just like "take Ray out, insert Tom, ok, go." Maybe that was what Nick and Tom wanted to do with this record, to make it an easier transition for some people. But I guess for me, I wanted Redemption to take a different turn with a new singer, who could really put his stamp on it.
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Ok, after living with this disc for just about a week, and playing it once a day, I think it is pretty good. I don't think I'd gush on it like I did with Snowfall (which I think is Redemption's high water mark), but it's a really good album.
As I mentioned earlier, my concern was Tom's voice. And while it is different than how he sings in Evergrey, I still find myself not sold. Technically, he's a really good singer. Guy has tons of talent. But the tonal quality of his voice, to my ear, sounds much more monotone, and less dynamic than Ray. I mean, Ray didn't sing in the stratosphere with Redemption, so he was in one general spot, range-wise, as is Tom. But Tom's voice is not as warm as Ray's, so it just sounds...there...to my ear. To set himself apart, I would have thought Tom might have used some range, or perhaps craft some melodies that are a little more dynamic in what they try to achieve. Instead, what I hear is Redemption doing what Redemption does, with Tom on vocals, instead of Tom putting his stamp on Redemption.
Again, I LIKE the record. I'm just trying to be objective about it. When Ray joined Redemption, I felt the band really took a step up, vocally, and melodically. With Tom, I sort of expected a different stamp on things and that the band would go a different place. At least to my ear, it hasn't. It's just like "take Ray out, insert Tom, ok, go." Maybe that was what Nick and Tom wanted to do with this record, to make it an easier transition for some people. But I guess for me, I wanted Redemption to take a different turn with a new singer, who could really put his stamp on it.
I just came here to post my opinion of the album and these pretty much sums up my feelings. I really like the album and I don't dislike Tom but the emotion from Ray's voice leaves me ultimately feeling a little disappointed. The songs are all top notch and there isn't one that I don't like which is rare nowadays. But I feel like if you put Ray on this album it would really have taken it to the next level. Still a 4/5 for me.
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This album is amazing. Amazing. AOTY contender.
Easy there, Tiger.
My second listen , musically was amazing. But while I was able to look past Tom initially, I feel like he will hinder me going forward.
I totally agree with this:
As I mentioned earlier, my concern was Tom's voice. And while it is different than how he sings in Evergrey, I still find myself not sold. Technically, he's a really good singer. Guy has tons of talent. But the tonal quality of his voice, to my ear, sounds much more monotone, and less dynamic than Ray. I mean, Ray didn't sing in the stratosphere with Redemption, so he was in one general spot, range-wise, as is Tom. But Tom's voice is not as warm as Ray's, so it just sounds...there...to my ear. To set himself apart, I would have thought Tom might have used some range, or perhaps craft some melodies that are a little more dynamic in what they try to achieve. Instead, what I hear is Redemption doing what Redemption does, with Tom on vocals, instead of Tom putting his stamp on Redemption.
Again, I LIKE the record. I'm just trying to be objective about it. When Ray joined Redemption, I felt the band really took a step up, vocally, and melodically. With Tom, I sort of expected a different stamp on things and that the band would go a different place. At least to my ear, it hasn't. It's just like "take Ray out, insert Tom, ok, go." Maybe that was what Nick and Tom wanted to do with this record, to make it an easier transition for some people. But I guess for me, I wanted Redemption to take a different turn with a new singer, who could really put his stamp on it.
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I'd love if all the people bitching that Tom sounds too different from Ray could get on one side, and all the other people bitching that Tom doesn't sound different enough could get on the other, and then they could have some sort of death match and I could eat popcorn and just wait it out. :)
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I know that was in jest, but it isn't really a contradiction. (Some/many) people want Ray because of how his voice sounds with Redemption; he's been the voice for a long time, and his voice was one of the ingredients contributing to the band's sound. But if they can't have Ray, they don't necessarily want someone else to sing the material the way Ray would have sung it. That's just going to make them wish even more that Ray was still in the band. (Add to that people who fall into the above and are also fans of Tom, and those people would probably prefer Tom to sound like himself.)
I think it makes sense; it's hard to get used to a new singer and the album hasn't been out that long. It's going to take people time to get to know it better and if they start to appreciate Tom more.
I'm going to get to listen to the album in full for the first time this weekend and will see if I feel this way (wishing Tom sounded more like himself) it like I did with Little Men.
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I'd love if all the people bitching that Tom sounds too different from Ray could get on one side, and all the other people bitching that Tom doesn't sound different enough could get on the other, and then they could have some sort of death match and I could eat popcorn and just wait it out. :)
:rollin
It would be entertaining!
In all seriousness though, I mean, you expected this right? I think most people agree that we like the record. It'll just take some time to get used to Tom's voice.
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I'm not done with this album, I'm just starting the title track, but I have to say I'm enjoying this. I'm liking it way more than The Fullness of Time. I still haven't heard Snowfall, but now that I've heard this and I'm enjoying it, I'm more inclined to give it a listen soon. I like Tom in this band more than Ray. I also like the U2 cover but think it needs more reverb.
EDIT: I do wish the album wasn't 1 hr 15 mins though.
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I also like the U2 cover but think it needs more reverb.
I'm not huge on the cover. I honestly wish Nick would have left it off and made it a b-side. It's expertly done, but I didn't think it was necessary, and would have trimmed the running time of the album down a few minutes...
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Couldn't you just.... not listen to it if you're running short on time?
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Couldn't you just.... not listen to it if you're running short on time?
Of course. But when you're an album guy, and like to listen to the entire body of work in sequence, skipping a track is sort of what you don't normally like to do.
Don't get me wrong. I like the record. But pointing out nitpicks, as well as giving praise, is sorta what forums are for, are they not? :lol
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Yeah the cover was nice but I'm scratching my head as to why they put it on here... Get rid of that and trim the F out of some of the other songs and you got a winner here. This is a good album... I dig it.
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Couldn't you just.... not listen to it if you're running short on time?
Of course. But when you're an album guy, and like to listen to the entire body of work in sequence, skipping a track is sort of what you don't normally like to do.
Don't get me wrong. I like the record. But pointing out nitpicks, as well as giving praise, is sorta what forums are for, are they not? :lol
Yeah, but - I guess it's one nitpick that I just don't get. I mean, what is the reason you feel the need to have the running time kept down? Why would 70 minutes be better than 75 minutes? I mean, I have read people who are upset when they can't listen to a whole album on their way to/from work, but really, what if your commute is only 10 minutes? Should the band then put out a 20 minute album? (Not saying I've read this comment from you). If the band has 75 minutes of songs that they feel proud of, then I want to hear it. If there are songs I don't like, then it's not that the album is too long, it's that I don't like some of the songs, which could have happened just as easily with a shorter album too. And if I do like all of the songs, then what's wrong with 75 minutes of :metal vs only 65 minutes of :metal?
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Couldn't you just.... not listen to it if you're running short on time?
Of course. But when you're an album guy, and like to listen to the entire body of work in sequence, skipping a track is sort of what you don't normally like to do.
Don't get me wrong. I like the record. But pointing out nitpicks, as well as giving praise, is sorta what forums are for, are they not? :lol
Yeah, but - I guess it's one nitpick that I just don't get. I mean, what is the reason you feel the need to have the running time kept down? Why would 70 minutes be better than 75 minutes? I mean, I have read people who are upset when they can't listen to a whole album on their way to/from work, but really, what if your commute is only 10 minutes? Should the band then put out a 20 minute album? (Not saying I've read this comment from you). If the band has 75 minutes of songs that they feel proud of, then I want to hear it. If there are songs I don't like, then it's not that the album is too long, it's that I don't like some of the songs, which could have happened just as easily with a shorter album too. And if I do like all of the songs, then what's wrong with 75 minutes of :metal vs only 65 minutes of :metal?
Personal preference. I mean, as Kattoelox pointed out, the record is 75 minutes long. That's a pretty long album. And there are, as he also pointed out, spots where some fat could have been trimmed on other songs (not really necessary to my ear, but I did pick up on a few spots). But again, you may not "get" the nitpicks, but it's all personal preference. I just happen to think the cover song wasn't necessary in the main running order of tunes. That's all. I don't MIND it, I just would have preferred it wasn't in there.
If you do, then that's cool!
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Hey, the band can be proud of it all they want. But at the end of the day, we're listening to the album, and whatever impacts the enjoyment of listening is worthy to discuss imo. A TON of bands (not just prog) don't know when to, respectfully, STFU and trim their songs down. There are sooo many songs where I get to about 5 minutes (of 6, 7, 8, whatever) and just want to go to something else. I don't need to always have the riff reprised for the 5th time or get a third solo on the outro :lol
And yeah like Samsara said, if you like it, cool! That's awesome and I'm actually happy about that :biggrin:
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Couldn't you just.... not listen to it if you're running short on time?
Of course. But when you're an album guy, and like to listen to the entire body of work in sequence, skipping a track is sort of what you don't normally like to do.
Don't get me wrong. I like the record. But pointing out nitpicks, as well as giving praise, is sorta what forums are for, are they not? :lol
Yeah, but - I guess it's one nitpick that I just don't get. I mean, what is the reason you feel the need to have the running time kept down? Why would 70 minutes be better than 75 minutes? I mean, I have read people who are upset when they can't listen to a whole album on their way to/from work, but really, what if your commute is only 10 minutes? Should the band then put out a 20 minute album? (Not saying I've read this comment from you). If the band has 75 minutes of songs that they feel proud of, then I want to hear it. If there are songs I don't like, then it's not that the album is too long, it's that I don't like some of the songs, which could have happened just as easily with a shorter album too. And if I do like all of the songs, then what's wrong with 75 minutes of :metal vs only 65 minutes of :metal?
Personal preference. I mean, as Kattoelox pointed out, the record is 75 minutes long. That's a pretty long album. And there are, as he also pointed out, spots where some fat could have been trimmed on other songs (not really necessary to my ear, but I did pick up on a few spots). But again, you may not "get" the nitpicks, but it's all personal preference. I just happen to think the cover song wasn't necessary in the main running order of tunes. That's all. I don't MIND it, I just would have preferred it wasn't in there.
If you do, then that's cool!
I haven't even heard it yet, so we'll see if I like it or not. :) (Will be listening to the album today). I totally get that we all have different personal preferences, but it just seems odd to me. Some of my favorite albums are close to the 80 minute mark (see: most DT albums) and some of my favorites are under an hour (Threshold and Riverside have some) and to me if I like the album then what does it matter? I'm just curious, and you don't have to explain further if you don't want, but in general (not necessarily specific to this one cover song), if you like the album, why do you care if it's 75 minutes?
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Hey, the band can be proud of it all they want. But at the end of the day, we're listening to the album, and whatever impacts the enjoyment of listening is worthy to discuss imo. A TON of bands (not just prog) don't know when to, respectfully, STFU and trim their songs down. There are sooo many songs where I get to about 5 minutes (of 6, 7, 8, whatever) and just want to go to something else. I don't need to always have the riff reprised for the 5th time or get a third solo on the outro :lol
And yeah like Samsara said, if you like it, cool! That's awesome and I'm actually happy about that :biggrin:
I'm not saying it isn't worthy to discuss - not at all. Of course it's worthy, that's why I'm discussing it. However, I don't think the issue you described is an issue with the album being too long. You just don't like the songs, and that's cool. I mean, if the (generic) band had 3 less songs and the album was under an hour, but the songs still present were unchanged, you'd still be wanting to go to something else at that 5 minute mark. Thus, it's not the length of the album that is in question, but rather the songs themselves.
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Hey, the band can be proud of it all they want. But at the end of the day, we're listening to the album, and whatever impacts the enjoyment of listening is worthy to discuss imo. A TON of bands (not just prog) don't know when to, respectfully, STFU and trim their songs down. There are sooo many songs where I get to about 5 minutes (of 6, 7, 8, whatever) and just want to go to something else. I don't need to always have the riff reprised for the 5th time or get a third solo on the outro :lol
And yeah like Samsara said, if you like it, cool! That's awesome and I'm actually happy about that :biggrin:
I'm not saying it isn't worthy to discuss - not at all. Of course it's worthy, that's why I'm discussing it. However, I don't think the issue you described is an issue with the album being too long. You just don't like the songs, and that's cool. I mean, if the (generic) band had 3 less songs and the album was under an hour, but the songs still present were unchanged, you'd still be wanting to go to something else at that 5 minute mark. Thus, it's not the length of the album that is in question, but rather the songs themselves.
That's incorrect. I do like the songs. I just think there are parts that go on for too long relative to how interesting the passages are. Maybe there's a minute of fluff at the beginning/end or in the middle, maybe there's one too many solos. The length of the album is therefore directly related to the length of the songs themselves. I can absolutely like a song while having criticisms about it :biggrin: It's very similar to how some people like Dream Theater songs but roll their eyes and look at their watches when the inevitable solo fest starts.
It's also relative to each and every band. Right off the top of my head I can think of a few albums that are some of my all-time favorites that only have 2 songs in the 5 minute range and 7 others beyond 7 minutes. Lots of my favorite albums have songs that go well over 10, 15, 20 minute marks.
This album, specifically, I think is very good on the first listen. I will definitely be spinning it again. However there are a couple points (solos, namely) that I think, "I could do without that, getting kinda bored here." Hopefully that changes, but yeah, I think it's quite healthy, actually, to enjoy something and point out the flaws! It's educational and, honestly, fun. (Hanging around with pure power metal diehards who refuse to discuss any potential criticisms in music we both like has made me hyper sensitive to this issue, truth be told.)
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Hey, the band can be proud of it all they want. But at the end of the day, we're listening to the album, and whatever impacts the enjoyment of listening is worthy to discuss imo. A TON of bands (not just prog) don't know when to, respectfully, STFU and trim their songs down. There are sooo many songs where I get to about 5 minutes (of 6, 7, 8, whatever) and just want to go to something else. I don't need to always have the riff reprised for the 5th time or get a third solo on the outro :lol
And yeah like Samsara said, if you like it, cool! That's awesome and I'm actually happy about that :biggrin:
I'm not saying it isn't worthy to discuss - not at all. Of course it's worthy, that's why I'm discussing it. However, I don't think the issue you described is an issue with the album being too long. You just don't like the songs, and that's cool. I mean, if the (generic) band had 3 less songs and the album was under an hour, but the songs still present were unchanged, you'd still be wanting to go to something else at that 5 minute mark. Thus, it's not the length of the album that is in question, but rather the songs themselves.
That's incorrect. I do like the songs. I just think there are parts that go on for too long relative to how interesting the passages are. Maybe there's a minute of fluff at the beginning/end or in the middle, maybe there's one too many solos. The length of the album is therefore directly related to the length of the songs themselves. I can absolutely like a song while having criticisms about it :biggrin: It's very similar to how some people like Dream Theater songs but roll their eyes and look at their watches when the inevitable solo fest starts.
It's also relative to each and every band. Right off the top of my head I can think of a few albums that are some of my all-time favorites that only have 2 songs in the 5 minute range and 7 others beyond 7 minutes. Lots of my favorite albums have songs that go well over 10, 15, 20 minute marks.
This album, specifically, I think is very good on the first listen. I will definitely be spinning it again. However there are a couple points (solos, namely) that I think, "I could do without that, getting kinda bored here." Hopefully that changes, but yeah, I think it's quite healthy, actually, to enjoy something and point out the flaws! It's educational and, honestly, fun. (Hanging around with pure power metal diehards who refuse to discuss any potential criticisms in music we both like has made me hyper sensitive to this issue, truth be told.)
But it's still down to the songs, and not really the length of the album. As I said - if the (generic) album had less songs but still had songs that you thought were too long, you'd have the same issue. So the real question is - if the album was 75 minutes but was full of songs that you 100% like (either they're all short, or they're long but you like every second), what then? Would the album still be too long? Or would it be fine because you like everything about it?
I wasn't at all suggesting that you don't like long songs in general. However, if the song is 10 minutes long and you want to listen to something else 5 minutes in, then yeah, I'd say you probably don't like that particular song that much. Maybe you like the 1st 5 minutes, maybe you like parts of it, maybe you like it as you think it should be, but not necessarily the song as it actually is.
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I can't give an answer to that because every album is different. I don't have rules :P
Just completely depends on how the music makes me feel. I didn't get any emotional response from this album so it's very easy for me to say it's too long.
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I haven't even heard it yet, so we'll see if I like it or not. :) (Will be listening to the album today). I totally get that we all have different personal preferences, but it just seems odd to me. Some of my favorite albums are close to the 80 minute mark (see: most DT albums) and some of my favorites are under an hour (Threshold and Riverside have some) and to me if I like the album then what does it matter? I'm just curious, and you don't have to explain further if you don't want, but in general (not necessarily specific to this one cover song), if you like the album, why do you care if it's 75 minutes?
It's not a specific length. The record just feels a little long to me, that's all. I don't really have an explanation. It's just yes, I like the record, but it feels a little over-extended for me. And that's why I think the cover tune wasn't really needed (eliminating it might have taken that feeling of the record being a touch long, away).
Enjoy when you listen to it today! I'm not really sure where I'd rank it in their discography, but I think I dig it more than Art of Loss for sure.
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The new album flows way better than AoL. I relistened to it a couple days ago, and although I liked probably half the album, it felt like such a chore to get through. Long Night flies by. It also helps that I like all the songs this time around.
Tom sounds great too. I do try to imagine how Ray would sound, but Tom fits right in.
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For those saying the album is 75 minutes long, you're including 10 minutes of bonus tracks there. Want me to put those on a second CD, or would you rather not have them, or...? Not being snarky, by the way. Consider this an informal poll.
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For those saying the album is 75 minutes long, you're including 10 minutes of bonus tracks there. Want me to put those on a second CD, or would you rather not have them, or...? Not being snarky, by the way. Consider this an informal poll.
Are you the actual guitarist for the band? That's cool. The bonus tracks are the least of my issues with 'too much' on the album, honestly (take them out and you still have 65 minutes of original material), so put 'em wherever. I personally like bonus stuff either coming at the very end of an album or on a separate disc but that's just me.
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My opinion - just put them on one cd if it fits. Why have 10 minutes on a second disc? But then, I don't think 75 minutes is too long and if I don't want to hear the 2 bonus tracks, I can just stop the cd before it gets there.
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For those saying the album is 75 minutes long, you're including 10 minutes of bonus tracks there. Want me to put those on a second CD, or would you rather not have them, or...? Not being snarky, by the way. Consider this an informal poll.
Are you the actual guitarist for the band?
I am.
That's cool. The bonus tracks are the least of my issues with 'too much' on the album, honestly (take them out and you still have 65 minutes of original material), so put 'em wherever. I personally like bonus stuff either coming at the very end of an album or on a separate disc but that's just me.
They are the the very end of the album. The U2 track isn't a bonus; it is a continuation of our tradition of covering songs that one wouldn't expect a heavy metal band to cover. The Who's Love Reign o'er Me with John Bush on our last album is another example.
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For those saying the album is 75 minutes long, you're including 10 minutes of bonus tracks there. Want me to put those on a second CD, or would you rather not have them, or...? Not being snarky, by the way. Consider this an informal poll.
I would like them not on the main disc. Either on a second disc or as a free download.
I know that artists want to provide value to their fans, but outtakes and demos should not be served with the main dish. The album closer should be followed by silence.
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That's cool then. I love covers of non metal songs by metal bands. The U2 one is no exception.
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For those saying the album is 75 minutes long, you're including 10 minutes of bonus tracks there. Want me to put those on a second CD, or would you rather not have them, or...? Not being snarky, by the way. Consider this an informal poll.
I would like them not on the main disc. Either on a second disc or as a free download.
I know that artists want to provide value to their fans, but outtakes and demos should not be served with the main dish. The album closer should be followed by silence.
1. They are neither outtakes nor demos.
2. Bear in mind there are industry and cultural dynamics (e.g., Japanese distributors want bonus tracks) to consider as well.
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I have no issue with the cover song being on the main disc. It's well done and I wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of trying to find the rare cover b-side if it wasn't on the album, nor would I rather it just never be done at all. To me, I want everything my favorite bands create and if that means packing it onto an album, that's fine with me. You know and understand that and you adjust accordingly, such as deleting it, or modifying the digital tag so its not associated with the album on your ipod, or stopping the CD when you want.
2. Bear in mind there are industry and cultural dynamics (e.g., Japanese distributors want bonus tracks) to consider as well.
Also, does that mean there are more tracks out there for the Japanese that I need to hunt down?
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1. They are neither outtakes nor demos.
True, but the two bonus tracks present here still fall in the same bucket IMO.
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For those saying the album is 75 minutes long, you're including 10 minutes of bonus tracks there. Want me to put those on a second CD, or would you rather not have them, or...? Not being snarky, by the way. Consider this an informal poll.
For me personally, I think the bonus/extra tracks should be on a second disc. I prefer "the record" to be, "the record." I generally now take albums that slap bonus tracks on the CD, and when I rip the disc, I label the bonus tracks as such, and as a separate album. For me, it's just about knowing what you as the artist consider "the record," and having that be one complete snapshot. But again, that's just me.
Wait a sec. I just looked up the tracklist. I think I have to correct myself. I have the standard edition - no bonus tracks. 66 minutes. I just assumed it was 75 minutes based on Kattoelox's comment, and the fact it seemed a little long. But my point stands though. Had the cover song (with I guess with whatever bonus tracks there are that I don't have) moved to a second disc, then the record as a whole would have been an hour long of completely original material, which I think (again, just my personal preference) would be better.
I love the cover of The Who's Love Reign o'er Me with John Bush. (John and Ray are two of my favorite singers.) But that's sort of a "bonus" of sorts as it is just a cover, as opposed to part of the creative process of new original songs, right, Nick?
p.s. what are the tracks from the new record I am missing? Are they available for purchase and download?
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Why make a bonus disc for 2 songs if they can fit all on one disc? That's a cost savings exercise and there's nothing stopping you from hitting stop when you've finished the proper album. Would you really rather pay extra for a double disc just for this feature? Like when DT has the 6 cover songs on the bonus disc for BCSL it made sense, there were enough songs to warrant it. I don't think that's the case here.
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Why make a bonus disc for 2 songs if they can fit all on one disc? That's a cost savings exercise and there's nothing stopping you from hitting stop when you've finished the proper album. Would you really rather pay extra for a double disc just for this feature? Like when DT has the 6 cover songs on the bonus disc for BCSL it made sense, there were enough songs to warrant it. I don't think that's the case here.
(https://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg)
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I listen to most of my music on my phone which means I rip the songs I want on to the computer then my phone, so having bonus tracks on the same disc as the album doesn't bother me. Sometimes the bonus tracks are better than some of the main songs *cough*Taylor Swift 1989*cough*
If you have like 4 or five bonus tracks, sure, have a second disc, but if it's just 2 like with Long Night's, not only would it be a waste of a CD, but would probably cost more to produce.
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Why make a bonus disc for 2 songs if they can fit all on one disc? That's a cost savings exercise and there's nothing stopping you from hitting stop when you've finished the proper album. Would you really rather pay extra for a double disc just for this feature? Like when DT has the 6 cover songs on the bonus disc for BCSL it made sense, there were enough songs to warrant it. I don't think that's the case here.
We were asked for our preference, I gave mine. I totally understand it makes better financial sense to do it on one disc, and don't expect a second CD at all. :)
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I know I'm digging back into the conversation, but in regards to camp Alder and camp Englund:
Frankly I wouldn't want Ray to ever sing in Evergrey, and I wouldn't want Tom to sing in Fates Warning. They are both fantastic singers and both have great bodies of work to their credit. With Redemption neither is the original vocalist, although Ray had of course been in the mix almost the entire time at this point, even having guest vocals on the first album, so I think there is going to be some bias towards him.
All that said I think Ray is the better singer for Redemption's sound. I've been really enjoying the new album, and it's right up there with pretty much anything the group has done in my opinion, but I still feel it could be better with Ray. But Tom can be extremely compelling live, and now that I've sold my ProgPower tickets save Friday, I'm hoping he delivers a performance that changes my mind.
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I'd love if all the people bitching that Tom sounds too different from Ray could get on one side, and all the other people bitching that Tom doesn't sound different enough could get on the other, and then they could have some sort of death match and I could eat popcorn and just wait it out. :)
Hah!
I have never been a fan of Evergrey. Especially their singer. When I found out he'd be joining Redemption, I was bummed. Not so much that Ray was leaving. Like I also said a few days ago, I actually welcomed the change. Ray could move the emotonal needle of the lyrics for sure, but I have always thought Redemption could use a heavier vocalist. I have often felt that in a way, Ray kind of nuetered the music, if that makes sense. And I love Ray, and I love Redemption, but truth be told, I never thought it was a great fit to begin with.
So for me, it's not that it's not Ray.
My first listen to the album, I was amazed. I enjoyed the heavier vocals. But my second listen, I think I got too negative. Finished my third listen and I think I'll be ok. ;D
Now again, I don't love the vocals. But I really like what Tom does in the title track. I wish he did more of that throughout the album.
Nick..I have a couple of questions...
1. You mentioned John Bush, who I love. How did he become involved with The Who cover?
2. Chris Quiarte is amazing. And I don't mean maybe. What's his background? What does he do during Redemption's down time?
Thank you!
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Finished my first listen, and will need more before I can share that many thoughts on the album. However:
2. Chris Quiarte is amazing. And I don't mean maybe.
I like the New Year's Day cover, and Tom's singing on it. There were parts I thought that were missing Ray, but it's to be expected, and I imagine a lot of that will change as I listen more.
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Just wrapped my second listen. It's growing on me. My first impression was that a lot of songs sound the same, but even on the second listen I'm picking up a lot of little things. Really enjoying Someone Else's Problem, And Yet, Indulge In Color, and Noonday Devil.
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This is probably a stupid question for Nick, or anyone that can answer I guess. I don't buy many cd's anymore and when I do I usually pick up what I can get locally instore. This new album is basically nowhere to be found for me in Australia, so where is the best place to purchase from that would be the most benefit for you Nick? bandcamp? Metalblade? I don't mind paying a bit extra if it's more benefit to you Nick. Mainly because you talking with us is so cool and appreciated.
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https://www.utopia.com.au/redemption-long-nights-journey-into-day-cd-new.html
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https://www.utopia.com.au/redemption-long-nights-journey-into-day-cd-new.html
Didn't even think to check Utopia for some reason. Man, I wish there were stores like this in Brisbane. If there is a source that is more benefit to Nick, I'll go with that, but this seems like the best option within Aus. Thanks Brent.
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(https://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah58/jorge_pozo1/C100301D-CA28-476F-8529-FF44C63AEEC0_zpst9u8zkcl.jpg) (https://s1377.photobucket.com/user/jorge_pozo1/media/C100301D-CA28-476F-8529-FF44C63AEEC0_zpst9u8zkcl.jpg.html)
Redemption recently released their new album, Long Night's Journey Into Day, via Metal Blade Records; for their efforts, the band has now entered the international charts! See below for all positions:
#17 Current Hard Music Albums (USA)
#19 Top New Artist Albums (USA)
#42 Record Label Independent Current Albums (USA)
#109 Top New Artist Albums Consumption (USA)
#174 Top Current Albums (USA)
#176 Current Digital Albums (USA)
#69 Media Control Top 100 (Germany)
#83 Hard Music Charts (Canada)
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In regards to the vocalist change, the interesting thing for me is that there are moments where I really like Tom and feel like he was the right choice but the majority of the time I feel like he's too much in the middle in both emotion and range. I've never heard Evergrey so I'm not sure what he sounds like there but there are glimpses of greatness just not enough for my liking. Again, musically I think this is the strongest release since Snowfall.
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Can't stop listening to this album. Every single song has so much that I like about it. This is just such a complete album.
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I think it's a really strong album. I'd still like Tom to let loose more, but I'm still getting used to it and am still able to enjoy the album.
Also, I neither think it's too long nor do I think the New Year's Day cover should have been left off. :) That's a great cover and Tom sounds awesome on it.
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I didn't like the cover at first, but I do now. The only part I don't like very much is Tom's delivery of the first two lines. After that everything is great.
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I didn't like the cover at first, but I do now. The only part I don't like very much is Tom's delivery of the first two lines. After that everything is great.
I get that - the first couple lines take a little getting used to, but I'm good with them. I think he sounds really cool on the song though.
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Can't stop listening to this album. Every single song has so much that I like about it. This is just such a complete album.
YES!! I listened to it on the plane out here. Awesome album.
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After several spins, I feel confident in claiming that LNJIT is impressively consistent, maybe Redemption's most consistent album since Fullness of Time.
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Yea, definitely a solid and consistent album. My only problem is maybe it's too consistent, as in there's not a lot of diversity of sound here. But they kind of nail it out of the park in terms of being a really great prog metal album, I can't really knock it for not diversifying if they are going be really good and consistent at whats working here. I kind of feel like the only song that does sway a bit off that path is the cover song, which is really well done and I absolutely love it. I think Tom sounds great on that one as well. I have no issues with his vocals at all on this album. I kind of hope they play the whole thing at Prog Power like Angra is doing with their latest release, but being a filming and debuting the new singer, I can understand why they would want to diversify the set more than just the album. :metal
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Respectfully, after many repeated listens, I'm not a big fan of the record. I think Nick and co. delivered a solid album musically, but I don't hear any real evolution. And maybe that was by design since they now have a new singer in Tom (which would make sense). As for Tom, I have really tried, and will continue to listen here and there, but he sounds like a less emotional, and less dynamic Ray Alder on this record. Again, maybe him singing in the manner he is, is by design, to set the template for the band as it moves forward. But as much as I wish I was as excited as those who really are loving this, I just don't like it as much. And Nick, since you're monitoring the thread slightly -- by no means do I mean any offense. I just wanted to provide honest, thoughtful feedback. Still hoping for another chance to see you guys live (I was fortunate enough to see you all open for Dream Theater in 2007 in Berkeley).
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That's an interesting take, because I hear the opposite, on both the musical and vocal side. I mean, it still definitely sounds like Redemption, without question. But I hear a serious evolution on the musical side, and I hear more vocal dynamics than I felt Ray brought, except maybe on Snowfall.
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You're a lost cause. Next thing you know, you'll be picketing outside of that Redemption show with a sign that says "No Ray, No Redemption." :lol
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You're a lost cause. Next thing you know, you'll be picketing outside of that Redemption show with a sign that says "No Ray, No Redemption." :lol
Raydemption.. :lol
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That's an interesting take, because I hear the opposite, on both the musical and vocal side. I mean, it still definitely sounds like Redemption, without question. But I hear a serious evolution on the musical side, and I hear more vocal dynamics than I felt Ray brought, except maybe on Snowfall.
Hahahahaha. Beauty of music. Snowfall is the band's high-water mark, IMO.
You're a lost cause. Next thing you know, you'll be picketing outside of that Redemption show with a sign that says "No Ray, No Redemption." :lol
:rollin
No chance. lol. Besides, I saw too many morons doing that for other bands, and respect Ray and Tom (and Nick) too much.
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That's an interesting take, because I hear the opposite, on both the musical and vocal side. I mean, it still definitely sounds like Redemption, without question. But I hear a serious evolution on the musical side, and I hear more vocal dynamics than I felt Ray brought, except maybe on Snowfall.
Hahahahaha. Beauty of music. Snowfall is the band's high-water mark, IMO.
The beauty of music, indeed. To me, Snowfall is a lot weaker than the first three albums and anything since doesn't touch any of the first three.
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That's an interesting take, because I hear the opposite, on both the musical and vocal side. I mean, it still definitely sounds like Redemption, without question. But I hear a serious evolution on the musical side, and I hear more vocal dynamics than I felt Ray brought, except maybe on Snowfall.
Hahahahaha. Beauty of music. Snowfall is the band's high-water mark, IMO.
The beauty of music, indeed. To me, Snowfall is a lot weaker than the first three albums and anything since doesn't touch any of the first three.
:rollin
Awesome. Let's settle this, over a pint and a laugh. :lol
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Music to my ears! :lol
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Hi everybody. :)
1. Samsara, no offense taken whatsoever -- thanks for giving it the spins and sharing your thoughts.
2. IMO, Snowfall is our most consistent record with Ray. Each has their high points. I think Art is somewhat underrated here but then what do I know, I like the music or I wouldn't have released it. ;)
3. In reading the thread, I'm sure some of you observe...there's just no pleasing everybody. Too little change, too much change, too much like Ray, not enough like Ray, not enough like Tom, too much like Evergrey, not enough like Evergrey, etc. etc. And somewhere in the middle of that venn diagram there are people that like it. I'm gratified for all opinions and the open-mindedness of those who end up not loving it; I'm particularly gratified for the bullseye of those that do. :)
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Cassy as always.
If I may, do you guys plan on performing any songs from the first album, especially Desperation and Something Wicked?
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Snowfall will always be special to me. The keyboards are great and the album feels natural with all instruments heard seperatly, but together.
Does anyone know how the ex lead guitar player is doing. I seem to remember he had a stroke and had a long recovery ahead.
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So, again, it's not that it's not Ray. That doesn't bother me a bit. I have always thought, while Ray conveyed the emotion in Nick's lyrics, that sonically, I never felt he was strong enough.
I've never cared for Evergrey. Or their vocalist. I love the new album, and am getting used to the vocals, but it'll never be a selling point of the album to me. But it has nothing to do with Ray. Hey, Ronnie James Dio ain't walking through that door. I get it.
My personal fave is This Mortal Coil. I love everything about it. I remember driving there nowhere'sville Wyoming a couple of summers ago on the way back to Denver listening to it, and it was so moving.
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For me, I thought Ray was a perfect fit and he did a great job bringing the emotion and didn't need to be any rougher than he was. I also think Tom could be, and probably will be, a great fit as well. I just want to hear him less contained/restrained without worrying about sounding like Evergrey. The music is 100% Redemption so I really don't think it will. Having said that, I'm on board with the new lineup, the new album is good, and I'm very much looking forward to see them live.
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Just stumbled across this beautiful cover version of Dream Theater's "These Walls" by Redemption's new keyboardist Vikram Shankar. Gives me chills!
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUlKrFiOkJQ
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My personal fave is This Mortal Coil. I love everything about it. I remember driving there nowhere'sville Wyoming a couple of summers ago on the way back to Denver listening to it, and it was so moving.
Interesting that you mention that album. When it came out, I was doing a LOT of work for the clients I mentioned to you the other day that are out near where you guys were staying. So I drove that road a LOT with that album cranked up loud. A lot of my best memories of driving that route involve This Mortal Coil, including a few times crying as I belted out the words of Departure of a Pale Horse while thinking about losing my dad to cancer--an event that happened at a hospital that is, coincidentally, also along that route.
Just stumbled across this beautiful cover version of Dream Theater's "These Walls" by Redemption's new keyboardist Vikram Shankar. Gives me chills!
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUlKrFiOkJQ
That is REALLY cool!
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Nice, Bosk. I think I know what I'm going to spin for our ride along the coast when we head up north tomorrow.
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Wow, so, I heard The Art of Loss last night. I was looking at Metal Archives and it appears that I am drawn more to Redemption's later albums than the early stuff, although I still plan to hear the self-titled and The Origins of Ruin eventually.
Art of Loss might be my favorite yet, whether it's because I'm acclimating to their sound or it's simply the most appealing, but it's great. It has the speed and punch that I like, the guitar solos and riffs use patterns and licks I just find really appealing. The lead guitar especially loves to end on these powerful wailing notes that are so sweet to my ear - I hear that in the track Leviathan Rising from Snowfall, and it's something I'm really digging about this band, those shreddy moments with the soaring final note.
I also think I like Ray's singing on this album the most. There are these moments of happiness and beauty which I appreciate in the midst of all the heavy metal. The Who cover is just fantastic, too. :2metal:
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Say Something is a tearjerker fir me. Beautiful duet!
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I've been listening to the Long Night's Journey into Day a lot lately and it's definitely my AOTY so far. Can't believe I'll say this, given how much I love Ray and Snowfall album, the latest might even be my favorite Redemption album :hefdaddy I find it enjoyable enough to listen to it twice a day (and I never do that) and it's sounds so fresh to my ears.
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Wow, so, I heard The Art of Loss last night. I was looking at Metal Archives and it appears that I am drawn more to Redemption's later albums than the early stuff, although I still plan to hear the self-titled and The Origins of Ruin eventually.
Art of Loss might be my favorite yet, whether it's because I'm acclimating to their sound or it's simply the most appealing, but it's great. It has the speed and punch that I like, the guitar solos and riffs use patterns and licks I just find really appealing. The lead guitar especially loves to end on these powerful wailing notes that are so sweet to my ear - I hear that in the track Leviathan Rising from Snowfall, and it's something I'm really digging about this band, those shreddy moments with the soaring final note.
I also think I like Ray's singing on this album the most. There are these moments of happiness and beauty which I appreciate in the midst of all the heavy metal. The Who cover is just fantastic, too. :2metal:
Always love seeing love for Art of Loss. Certainly one of my favorites.
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I'm enjoying the hell out of this album. Someone Else's Problem and the chorus of Impermanent have been stuck in my head for these last few days. I'm pretty sure this is my album of the year so far, and I can see it growing even more.
Of course, there's some tough competition ahead, with Seventh Wonder, Haken and Riverside also releasing their new work this year, but still, this album is very impressive.
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I think I said Someone Else's Problem was maybe my least favorite of the three released tracks before the album release. I'm not so sure about that anymore, that song really kicks ass. The whole album does. It's tough to decide what I like the most, but I can see why they chose to make the music video for that song which I initially questioned.
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I think I said Someone Else's Problem was maybe my least favorite of the three released tracks before the album release. I'm not so sure about that anymore, that song really kicks ass. The whole album does. It's tough to decide what I like the most, but I can see why they chose to make the music video for that song which I initially questioned.
Yeah, I was kind of in that boat too (although Little Men, being the first song I heard, and thus having the distinction of being the song that imparted the shock value of Not-Ray on vocals, I think I probably would have initially said that that song was my least favorite at the time). But once I listened more, I really found myself truly loving every single song. The only one that hasn't REALLY completely hit yet for me is The Last of Me. And it isn't an issue with the song itself. It is more just the still-newness of the album and that song's placement, being so late on the album. New Year's Day doesn't suffer from that because it is a cover of a song I already knew intimately and loved intensely. The title song doesn't suffer from that because it is the token "epic album closer," so it kind of automatically carried a built-in incentive to pay attention. Add to that the parallels with Snowfall's closer. The Last of Me is just the unfortunate late-in-the-lineup song that one can have a tendency to overlook simply because of its placement. But, inevitably, when I am listening to the album, and it gets to the chorus, my ears perk up, and I'm like "oh, yeah--this is THAT song. Yeah, I like this."
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I agree, bosk. And Yet has the advantage of being very different from the rest of the songs, while The Last of Me suffers from the placement a bit, I don't remember much about this song after ~8 listens. But I definitely should pay more attention to it, I don't remember disliking anything on this album.
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Sonic Perspectives posted a great interview with Nick that offers a lot of insight into the new album, the Ray/Tom situation, and Tom and Vikram's involvement going forward, among other things. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KooPWPCEJM
Just in case it got lost or overlooked by some, I just want to reiterate that I think listening to this interview should be considered mandatory for Redemption fans. LOTS of cool insight into a lot of things.
I really hope we get some tour dates in my area that my schedule will permit.
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Sonic Perspectives posted a great interview with Nick that offers a lot of insight into the new album, the Ray/Tom situation, and Tom and Vikram's involvement going forward, among other things. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KooPWPCEJM
Just in case it got lost or overlooked by some, I just want to reiterate that I think listening to this interview should be considered mandatory for Redemption fans. LOTS of cool insight into a lot of things.
I really hope we get some tour dates in my area that my schedule will permit.
I was avoiding this because I think it's the same person that did an interview with Michael Romeo that was, maybe not my thing interview-wise. But maybe I should give it a listen anyway.
I've listened to the new album quite a few times now and still want something "more" from Tom, but am still on board anyway. I'd say that Little Men is probably my least favorite track, which is a good thing for me because it went up from there.
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Cassy as always.
If I may, do you guys plan on performing any songs from the first album, especially Desperation and Something Wicked?
Apologies for not responding early, Abydos.
I think we have probably retired that record for the foreseeable future. Never say never, of course.
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Hey, everyone. I recently did a Q&A with Redemption's new keyboardist Vikram Shankar. Enjoy!
Link: Interview with Vikram Shankar (September 2018) (http://progzombie.blogspot.com/p/1-starters-welcome-toredemption-fans.html)
Vikram Shankar
Date: September 2018
Vikram Shankar is the keyboardist for the progressive metal band Redemption, which he joined earlier this year, and appears on the band's seventh studio album Long Night's Journey Into Day. He is also the keyboardist for the progressive rock band Lux Terminus, which recently released their debut album The Courage to Be, and is a member of the band Our Destiny. In addition, Shankar is known for having posted dozens of cover songs online for progressive rock/metal acts including Anathema, Evergrey and Dream Theater.
Q: For starters, welcome to Redemption! For fans who aren't familiar with you or your work, where are you from and how would you describe yourself as an artist/musician?
VS: Thank you! I am a keyboardist and producer from Cleveland, Ohio. You might know me for my piano covers, as I have been doing piano covers of prog, metal and other artists for many years prior to joining Redemption and launching my own bands. I play in the progressive rock trio Lux Terminus, symphonic metal band Threads of Fate, and some others that haven't been unveiled yet. Connecting with other people and uplifting through music is my favorite thing in the world, and I'm overjoyed to have the opportunity to do so with the talented folks in Redemption!
Q: When did you first start playing piano/keyboard and who introduced you to the instrument? Where did you study music and what were some of your early musical influences?
VS: I first started seriously playing when I was around 6 or 7, although I dabbled on my family's cheap keyboard before then. I began my serious studies thanks to a family friend, who observed that I had perfect pitch and encouraged my family to invest in a proper piano and lessons. I studied for 10 years at the Cleveland Institute of Music, after which I went to Oberlin Conservatory and got my degree in music composition for film. Early on, I was influenced exclusively by classical music (especially Mussorgsky, Liszt, Debussy and Beethoven), but my world exploded in middle school with my discovery of, well, everything that isn't classical music! Some of my biggest formative influences include Pink Floyd, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Rush, Dream Theater, Herbie Hancock, John Coltrane, Nightwish, Howard Shore, Pendulum, and Anathema.
Q: How did you become introduced to the guys in Redemption? How long had you been a fan of the band before joining them and what were some of your favorite songs/albums by the band?
VS: I had been a fan of Redemption for many years, ever since I first heard Snowfall on Judgment Day, which was my favorite album by the band until Long Night's Journey into Day. Given that I operate in the Progpower USA orbit, I suppose Nick van Dyk and I would have run into each other eventually, but the process was expedited by Tom Englund, with whom I have become good friends with over the course of a couple years. Tom showed my work to Nick, and is therefore ultimately responsible for me joining the band. Nick and I hit it off terrifically in our first meetings – we have similar musical sensibilities, but also gel really well together as friends. We hung out at Progpower USA 2017 and then the next month in LA, when I met the rest of the band and was formally welcomed into the fold. It's been nothing but a thrill ever since!
Q: What was the extent of your involvement in the writing/recording process for Long Night's Journey Into Day? Any contributions you're most proud of?
VS: I wasn't really supposed to be on the new record at all – I was only able to slide in there at the last minute because of luck and happenstance, as the record was already sent out for mixing. It was certainly an eleventh-hour situation, and the sum total of my contribution really is textures and "ear candy," but I'm honored to be on the record at all, because I really think it's an outstanding piece of work and I'm thrilled by how positively people have been reacting to it.
Q: What should Redemption fans expect from you in the band’s future music? Is there anything specific you hope to bring to the band's sound?
VS: What I would really love to achieve, working on our next record, is take the Redemption sound to the next level – whatever the heck that means! We'll only find out as we do it, I suspect. :) For me, the defining characteristic of Redemption is Nick's compositional voice, and both Tom and I have agreed that the "soul" of Redemption has to come from Nick. It's also important that Tom doesn't turn Redemption into Evergrey 2.0, or that I turn Redemption into Lux Terminus 2.0. That being said, Tom has a remarkable vocal sensibility, and I certainly write and play keyboard parts in a particular way. All of us are extremely excited to be writing and recording together, and I'm especially excited to see how exactly the injection of fresh perspective enhances the flavor of the music.
Q: What's your opinion of the keyboard work on Redemption's past albums by Nick van Dyk and Greg Hosharian? Any favorite solos/sections?
VS: I have always enjoyed the keyboard work on past Redemption albums, both by Nick himself (whose compositional voice on the instrument is killer) and by Greg, who is of course a monster player and whose work on Snowfall is really outstanding! My favorite element of Redemption's keyboard work, as performed by Nick and by Greg, is the emphasis on piano textures – the sound of piano over heavy guitar riffing is a fairly particular flavor that I find really appealing! Lux Terminus is almost entirely piano driven, as is most of what I do, so I suppose Redemption is quite a natural fit for me as a keyboardist in that respect.
Q: With multiple new members in the band now, what's the camaraderie and energy been like so far?
VS: The chemistry has been really incredible thus far! I don't take that for granted at all, because the first Redemption album came out when I was just 7 years old (now, there's a scary thought…), so really, I wouldn't have been surprised if I came into the fold and was treated as "the new guy." But it totally hasn't been that way – it's wonderful and truly flattering to be accepted into the family with such open arms and such a degree of mutual respect. Every time we have hung out together as a band has been a wonderful time, and we have gelled together really, really well I think. We're stoked to take that camaraderie and chemistry to the stage!
Q: How exciting/meaningful is it to make your debut appearance with the band at ProgPower USA?
VS: Playing Progpower is a dream come true! The festival has always been a sort of mecca for me as a fan of progressive and melodic metal music, and I've been dreaming of playing the festival since even before 2014 (which was my first year attending as a fan). Doing so as a co-headliner, and as part of such a killer band, on stage with one of my favorite singers of all time, is truly going to be a trip.
Q: How have the rehearsals been going?
VS: Given that it's no easy feat to learn and rehearse Redemption material, the rehearsals have been going quite smoothly! From the very first time I played with the guys, there has been a genuine chemistry and electricity in the room that has been really wonderful to be a part of. There's a certain joyous spirit to playing exhilarating progressive music and locking eyes with another band member as you nail some crazy meter changes or a unison run, and it’s been getting better and better, and more and more fun, every time we play together.
Q: Do you plan to perform Redemption's keyboard parts exactly as they sound on the studio albums or do you plan to put your own spin on them?
VS: I've been encouraged by Nick to put my own spin on the way I play the older material – although to me, some material is sacred and I don't plan on changing it. That being said, I play keyboards in a manner particular to myself (as every musician does), and I'm grateful that I'm being encouraged to express that within the framework of these legendary songs. It's going to be a blast!
Q: Was it hard to learn some of the band's older songs? What was your approach?
VS: Although Redemption's music can hardly be described as a walk in the park to learn, I wouldn't say that it’s been an overly challenging process for me personally. I typically learn new music by listening to it a ton, getting it in my head – not just the notes and harmonies but the vibe and most importantly paying close attention to, and internalizing, how each song makes me feel so I can express that through my playing. Then it's a matter of practice, keyboard programming and sound design, and all that. The process has been fairly smooth, perhaps facilitated by the fact that I've been familiar with much of the band's output over time and the internalization process hasn't been too arduous.
Q: Let's talk about one of your other bands: Lux Terminus. You guys have a new album out called The Courage to Be, which is your debut record. What can fans expect?
VS: Lux Terminus is a "passion project" for me, if you will – a progressive rock trio comprised of keyboards, bass and drums. Our style sits somewhere between prog rock and jazz fusion with further influence from djent/metal, symphonic music, and electronic – and we do it all without a full-time guitarist or vocalist! (We do have guest appearances on our record by Anneke van Giersbergen, Timo Somers and Raphael Weinroth-Browne to flesh things out where appropriate.) The music is driven mainly by piano, it's quite dynamic, conceptually driven, and extremely stylistically diverse. I'm deeply proud of The Courage to Be, and if anyone reading this wants to really get inside my head as a musician and songwriter, I think it's a pretty good place to start!
Q: How did you and the other band members, Matthew Kerschner (drums) and Brian Craft (bass), meet?
VS: Matt and Brian were the rhythm section of the first "real" band I joined, Gravity. Gravity were to some degree local legends in Cleveland as far as prog goes, and I played some cool shows with them like opening for Dream Theater on the Dramatic Turn of Events tour stop in Cleveland. Eventually, the band went on hiatus, and after a few years of not really having any bands, I decided to hit up Matt and Brian to play, of all things, cocktail jazz with me. Our ambitions were really no greater than perhaps making some fast cash playing restaurants. But when I have an ensemble of talented players at my disposal, I write for them, and the original music I was writing was definitely progressive rock, with various other influences littered throughout. We figured we would just ride the wave of what I was writing and see where it took us, and we're all pretty stoked with how things came out!
Q: Anneke van Giersbergen was outstanding on the song, "Epilogue: Fly," which you guys released a lyric video for this summer prior to the album's release. How was it to work with her?
VS: Working with Anneke was a dream for me, as she is quite literally my favorite vocalist ever and her voice and music have been hugely important to me for years. I'm both shocked and deeply thankful that she was receptive to my offer to do a song together! What is still striking to me, every time I listen to the track, is how much she shaped the song and made it her own by singing it – phrasing nuances, embellishments, and just general character… I can honestly say that her performance on the song is one of my favorite vocal performances ever, as a fan of hers, although of course I know I'm as biased as can be! I can't say enough good things about her as a singer, as an artist, and as a person.
Q: What's next for Lux Terminus? Any possible tour dates?
VS: Lux Terminus would love to hit the road to support The Courage to Be! Everyone knows touring is a massive endeavor, and all of us in LT are enormously busy with our own lives, but it would be great fun to play this material out, as it already has been during the couple shows we've played together thus far. I would love to hit the prog festival circuit as well, and I think that's probably more likely at least in the short term! Aside from that, we'll be working on our follow-up record, and trying to build on what we've accomplished, which I am tremendously excited for.
Q: Can you tell about your other band: Our Destiny?
VS: Our Destiny is a project that I have had for years with my girlfriend and gifted vocalist, Lauren Nolan – it's actually how I met and got to know her! We have existed for many years, making piano and vocals (and sometimes other instrumentation) covers of our favorite songs (Anathema, Nightwish, and many more). However, it's high time we start releasing some original music, which we plan to do this year. Several songs are already in the bag and it's extremely exciting and rewarding for me to make this kind of uplifting yet deeply emotional music. It makes for a nice contrast to a not-at-all-uplifting, deeply emotional project that should hopefully be announced soon!
Q: Getting back to Redemption, I heard Nick van Dyk mention in an interview that Tom Englund had been a fan of a cover version you had done of Evergrey's "Distance," which I also loved by the way. What inspired that cover?
VS: Thank you! Tom himself inspired that cover, actually. He and I first met in person during Evergrey's 2017 U.S. tour, and the morning of the show I recorded a quick one-minute version of "Distance" and posted it on social media. They used that audio as the "intro tape to the intro tape" of their live show that night, which was pretty neat! Some time after the fact, Tom told me I should make a piano arrangement of the full song – and a "request" from Tom freaking Englund is not something one takes lightly!
Q: What other progressive metal bands have you covered? Do you have any cover songs that you're most proud of?
VS: I've covered quite a lot of stuff in my time, and some of it I am still genuinely very proud of. (Some of it doesn't age quite as well, as my first piano covers date back to when I was 14 or 15 years old, but that's what growing and developing as a player is all about!) Some of my absolute favorites I've done include: all the Anathema arrangements I've done (massive fanboy alert: I've actually done probably more than 10 Anathema covers, including album medleys of Distant Satellites and The Optimist that I am quite proud of, although my favorite I've done of theirs is "Lightning Song" probably), the aforementioned "Distance" arrangement, my medley of Ocean Machine by Devin Townsend, "On a Tuesday" by Pain of Salvation, "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Nightwish, and "Lune" and "The Way the News Goes" by Periphery. It's not progressive metal, but it was great fun to reinvent "That Song" by Amaranthe into a jazzy, bluesy solo piano performance as well!
Q: I've heard your covers of various Dream Theater songs on YouTube, and I particularly loved your take on "These Walls" and "The Count of Tuscany." How has their music influenced you and do you have any favorite Dream Theater albums/songs/solos?
VS: Thank you so much! Dream Theater is as important to me as any band could ever be, as they are arguably THE reason I entered the wild and wonderful world of metal (not just progressive metal!) in the first place. Alongside Nightwish, they really opened my eyes to what was possible in a heavy context, and Dream Theater in particular showed me that it is possible to tap into the visceral power of metal while exhibiting a dazzling level of intricacy and virtuosity that I hadn't really encountered since my many years studying classical music. My favorite Dream Theater track will always be "Octavarium," as it was the song that I first fell in love with (and to date it is one of my favorite compositions in modern music), but I truly enjoy the vast majority of what they have done, from the "classics" in the 90s all the way up to the Mangini-era albums, which I think are quite great in their own right.
Q: One of my other websites is The Mooreatorium, an unofficial online community for fans of keyboardist Kevin Moore (ex-Dream Theater, Chroma Key, OSI). As a keyboardist what are your thoughts on the keyboard work of Dream Theater's three legendary keyboardists (Kevin Moore, Derek Sherinian and Jordan Rudess) and what they each brought to the band's sound?
VS: I'll have to check out The Mooreatorium – super cool stuff! I feel the same way about Dream Theater’s keyboardists that I do about Nightwish's singers – the band really is blessed to have so much consistently wonderful yet extremely diverse talent throughout the years! Moore's playing of course has a memorable quality that really shines through, and many of his keyboard lines and lead parts are truly iconic in the progressive metal canon. He has a way of setting a profound mood through what may seem like simple textures that is really remarkable as well. I love Sherinian's sense of aggression in his playing, although I think his genius really shines more in the context of something like Planet X, whose records I am a huge fan of. Rudess was one of my earliest and biggest inspirations as a keyboard player, and even to this day he never fails to impress me. I think some fans criticize him as being soulless and mechanical, and I suppose given his technical proficiency I can understand why they might perceive his playing as such, but to me Rudess's playing is the exact opposite of that. To me there is so much pure joy in his playing – nothing is forced, nothing is contrived, this is just who he is, in all of his nerdy brilliance. He simply can't help but be a next-level musician, and I personally love that he doesn't curtail who he is and lets it rip. (He also can play extremely beautifully and emotively, as his piano solo album Notes on a Dream illustrates.) Also, it's worth noting his talent as a composer and improviser – every single thing that guy plays sounds album-ready to me, even when he's just noodling around on a Facebook live stream or improvising to test a piece of gear. I guess you can probably tell from all this who my favorite Dream Theater keyboard player is J but I do want to emphasize that all three are monstrous talents, and all have been inspirational to me during my journey!
Q: What's next for Redemption after the ProgPower USA show?
VS: We have, of course, the headline show at the Whiskey in Los Angeles, which is going to be great fun! We'll be hoping to do some more live dates to support the new record, although I don’t know exactly where those will be yet. Then, it's all about diving into writing the new record, which we are all extremely excited about. I think the best is yet to come (as great as the present music is!), and the prospect of taking what we do the next level couldn't be more exciting for us all!
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Vik is an outstanding guy, we actually had him on our most recent podcast but I forgot to post about it here: https://www.sonicperspectives.com/features/talking-perspectives-episode-twelve/
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Very cool! Thanks, Mike.
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Cassy as always.
If I may, do you guys plan on performing any songs from the first album, especially Desperation and Something Wicked?
Apologies for not responding early, Abydos.
I think we have probably retired that record for the foreseeable future. Never say never, of course.
Absolutely no need for apologies - time is a very finite resource which makes it even more special that you decide to take it and respond to things we just ask out of the blue.
I am a bit sad about that as this record was my introduction to the band and have many fond memories of listening to it at 6:30am on the bus to school during winter along with A Pleasant Shade of Gray :). But I understand and remain hopeful for the future :).
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After listening to it more, its a really consistent album. "Indulge in Color" i think is the best by far. It's the one song where i feel Tom really lets loose and i get goosebumps from it. I wish there were more songs like that. "Impermanent" is also really good, but the album does seem to run together for me. I think Art of Loss is better imo and love most of that cd, "Center of the Fire".
I just don't find a ton of melodies that stick in my head with album. Maybe "Somebody Else's Problem". Every Redemption album before this(except maybe the debut) had lots of memorable choruses or melodies that stuck with me. Musically, its amazing. Well, i'll continue to listen to it, maybe it will click more for me.
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"Indulge in Color" i think is the best by far. It's the one song where i feel Tom really lets loose and i get goosebumps from it.
Wait until you see it on the live dvd, that was probably my favorite song from their set at PP.
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I finally got around to purchasing this album (I know, I know, better late than never) and have only had one listen so far. I've been a fan of Everygrey since the Inner Circle came out, going on 15 years, and I consider Tom of metals greatest and unique voices. He's one of my personal favs, so hearing him in Redemption is actually quite an interesting experience. I have nothing negative to say at all. When you think about Tom and Redemption, it sounds as interesting as it actually is, a unique combination and hearing Tom sing here is just wonderful. He's got some different timbres and tones going on in his voice at times which you don't hear so it's great that's he's fully invested cause it shows.
Redemptions sound is Redemption and the similar riffing at times makes no difference to me and I have no issue. I must say I was taken a back a little with Someone Else's Problem and the Echo Chamber being back to back with that riff that's so similar, but that's a minor gripe. Obviously hard to pick up on everything in one listen but I gotta say, Little Men works so well in the context of the album, what an absolute cracker.
New Years Day is wonderful. I LOVE what Tom is doing here, especially in the 'say it's true' section where Tom goes lower instead of the original that goes higher. It's different but beautiful and Tom's note selection and phrasing on the line 'we can be one' just might be my fav point of the album on first listen. Simone's self indulgent shred on this one is actually perfect and works a treat.
Speaking of solos, there is a lot going on. Seems like Nick even took a slight backseat at times for Simone and Chris. Chris is doing some of his most incredible stuff here, there's some amazing solos from him. Simone has a pretty repetitive style but shreds his ass off like I expected. It's great to see Tom fully invest in his vocals here but Nick, next time get him in on the solo action, his solos are so classy and his style is so underrated. His runs, phrasing and note selections are perfect and most of my fav Evergrey solos are his as opposed to Henrik. Tom doing a few solos with Nick, Simone and Chris would just be next level for me.
Looking forward to listening more. I must comment on the production too, it sounds amazing and Tom's vocal mix is possibly the best he's ever had.
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Can't stop spinning this album. Indulge in Color is one of the greatest songs I think I've ever heard, beautiful.
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:metal
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And Little Men is wonderful. I want to thank Nick for writing this song and especially the lyrics. Not sure what it's based on, I'm guessing political but I look at the lyrics from my situation at work and what I'm going through with so many 'little men', that are backstabbing, double crossing scum suckers with no self respect or pride in my organisation. These lyrics fire me up and get me going and keep me on track. They are so relateable it's not funny.
The lyrics to Indulge in Color are also motivating, beautiful and uplifting.
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Had my music on shuffle last night while throwing darts and Echo Chamber came on. Man that song rocks and then the vocals started. Tom's voice just doesn't do it for me. I'm going to spin the album again today and see if my opinion changes at all.
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I agree. It has replaced The Astonishing for being my usual go-to when I am riding my bike home from work, so I get to really immerse myself in the album and am enjoying it quite a bit.
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Two weeks straight in the car and still loving it. The lyrics to the title track are incredible. I'd love to hear Nick's origins behind a lot of the lyrics on this album, they are just what I needed at this current time.
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He gets into some of that in that long interview that is posted a couple of pages back. I would check that out.
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He gets into some of that in that long interview that is posted a couple of pages back. I would check that out.
Will do, thanks bosk. I guess I missed a bit of the hype since I only got the album 2 weeks ago.
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So I somehow missed this album completely this summer.
Currently listening for the first time, and I have to say that I really like it. Tom fits the band's sound like he's never done anything else, and Nick has written some fantastic lyrics once again. The instrumental work is amazing as well, with some superb guitar solos throughout.
I don't know the individual songs that well yet, and it obviously needs a couple more listens, but my first impression is a very positive one.
Also, the album cover is beautiful.
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This album still sounding fresh each listen.
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It is a really good album, I'm thinking it lands #3 of the year for me, behind Seventh Wonder and Haken, but between those three, it's almost a toss up really (the other two are newer and more fresh which may have an impact on my current rankings in my head)
Anyway, LNJID was my intro to Redemption and I really enjoyed it. I have since also started listening to Evergrey (they are playing ProgPower next year so I finally started listening, also Tom told himself me I should check out his other band :lol ) and now I kind of see what others were saying here when comparing him to Redemption and Evergrey. Seems he does use a different style and maybe more versatile in Evergrey, but when I go back to listen to Ray in Redemption, I feel like that's more what Tom is trying to do. He sounds like Redemption in Redemption. I think that's fine. It's kind of similar to Tommy Karevik in Kamelot and Seventh Wonder really.
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As much as I like you, Cram, ranking this album behind Haken makes me think you need to have your head examined. Or at least your ears.
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As much as I like you Cram, ranking this album behind Seventh Wonder makes me think you need to have your head examined. Or at least your ears.
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As much as I like you, Cram, ranking this album behind Haken makes me think you need to have your head examined. Or at least your ears.
I think it's fair to say I enjoy Haken more than Redemption though, where as you are the opposite (and I don't think it's that close for you as it is for me). But needing my head examined might be true regardless.
As much as I like you Cram, ranking this album behind Seventh Wonder makes me think you need to have your head examined. Or at least your ears.
And you've made it clear you aren't a Seventh Wonder fan so once again, this just seems par for the course really.
I can also clearly say Tommy is by far my favorite singer of the three bands and that honestly weighs heavy on me in this case because his vocals are so damn good in Tiara. But as Im thinking about this, I may actually like Ross moreso than Tom. That's a bit closer though and I haven't listened to enough Evergrey to come to that conclusion yet, but I kind of feel that way based on what I do know. Next year I'll get a better idea. I've only seen Tom live once with his first time in Redemption, I've seen Tommy live 5 times with Kamelot and Ross 4 times (once with MP's TSF, 3 with Haken) so it's not as easy to compare against Tom just yet.
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This album would definitely be near the top of my best of 2018 list. Not that there's a lot of albums I'd be able to chose from though.
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Despite the fact that Haken, Redemption and Seventh Wonder are all labeled as prog metal, they're quite different stylistically. I like all three albums. I would too pick Seventh Wonder over this one and Vector, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy these albums a lot.
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Despite the fact that Haken, Redemption and Seventh Wonder are all labeled as prog metal, they're quite different stylistically. I like all three albums. I would too pick Seventh Wonder over this one and Vector, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy these albums a lot.
They are very different indeed, wasn't trying to directly compare them really but I've been thinking about my favorite albums of the year and those three come to mind for me.
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That wasn't a dig at you, cram, just an observation. :)
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That wasn't a dig at you, cram, just an observation. :)
I didn't think take it that way. Was really just agreeing with you about the first part and not so much on the latter :biggrin:
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I just find it hard to accept that someone could rank an album that I find to be SO bad above an album that I find to be SO fantastic. And believe me, I listened to that Haken album a TON to try to find things I liked so that I could write a review. I ultimately had to turn down doing the review because, after three weeks of listening, I just couldn't stand the album at all.
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To each their own and it's not like I dislike LNJID, I said it's pretty close between the three albums for me. So while I may enjoy one over the other, they are both awesome albums to me.
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I just find it hard to accept that someone could rank an album that I find to be SO bad above an album that I find to be SO fantastic. And believe me, I listened to that Haken album a TON to try to find things I liked so that I could write a review. I ultimately had to turn down doing the review because, after three weeks of listening, I just couldn't stand the album at all.
I mean, personal preferences aside there are two points where I think the Haken album stands above the Redemption album. Firstly the Haken album doesn't sound like the last few Haken albums. Of course some elements are still there, but it is a fresh album. The Redemption album, although I love it, musically sounds exactly like we've come to expect Redemption to sound. They are similar to Threshold at this point in putting out consistently great albums that have a major strike against them in that you feel like you've heard it all before.
This is seen even more in the vocals for the new album, which despite a singer change are very similar in style to what we've heard before and are frankly better executed by Ray in my opinion. So between the been there done that, and the vocal downgrade (in this style, Tom is AMAZING in Evergrey), there are certainly reasons against Redemption being the top album.
That said I don't think Vector is Haken's best or perfect either, and detailed a few issues in my review, and at the end of the day I can see great arguments for either one topping the other. For Bosk specifically, I'm surprised you can't at least find positive things to say about Veil. One strike against the album for me is how similar the song sounds like Black Clouds era Dream Theater, but I'd suspect you would latch on and enjoy that one at least.
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ranking this albumanything behind Haken makes me think you need to have your head examined. Or at least your ears.
Fix'd But that's just me, and I know that Haken is my own personal fail, but still...
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For Bosk specifically, I'm surprised you can't at least find positive things to say about Veil. One strike against the album for me is how similar the song sounds like Black Clouds era Dream Theater, but I'd suspect you would latch on and enjoy that one at least.
I'm surprised as well, I understand Bosk just isn't a fan and that's fine, but there's quite a few similarities to DT that I just find it hard to imagine there wasn't anything of interest on Vector.
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I just find it hard to accept that someone could rank an album that I find to be SO bad above an album that I find to be SO fantastic. And believe me, I listened to that Haken album a TON to try to find things I liked so that I could write a review. I ultimately had to turn down doing the review because, after three weeks of listening, I just couldn't stand the album at all.
I mean, personal preferences aside there are two points where I think the Haken album stands above the Redemption album. Firstly the Haken album doesn't sound like the last few Haken albums. Of course some elements are still there, but it is a fresh album. The Redemption album, although I love it, musically sounds exactly like we've come to expect Redemption to sound. They are similar to Threshold at this point in putting out consistently great albums that have a major strike against them in that you feel like you've heard it all before.
This is seen even more in the vocals for the new album, which despite a singer change are very similar in style to what we've heard before and are frankly better executed by Ray in my opinion. So between the been there done that, and the vocal downgrade (in this style, Tom is AMAZING in Evergrey), there are certainly reasons against Redemption being the top album.
I completely agree with you. As much as I enjoyed this Redemption album it doesn't come close to the magic of Origins and Snowfall. I love Tom in Evergrey but for me he doesn't bring the magic Ray brought to Redemption.
The album will be in my top 10 this year but so far Haken, TesseracT, Oceans of Slumber en The Ocean rank higher.
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I just find it hard to accept that someone could rank an album that I find to be SO bad above an album that I find to be SO fantastic. And believe me, I listened to that Haken album a TON to try to find things I liked so that I could write a review. I ultimately had to turn down doing the review because, after three weeks of listening, I just couldn't stand the album at all.
I can't stand understand the love for Haken at all.
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Celestial Elixir is a great song. Everything else I've heard is very unappealing. Especially that god awful Cockroach King.
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I love Haken though I understand why they may not appeal to other especially because of the vocals. The new redemption album is good but man not having Ray really hurt it my eyes.
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Patric Ullaeus is getting to work on the Redemption concert :metal :metal
Set up to edit the @redemptionmetal concert that we filmed in Atlanta @progpowerusa 🎬🤘🎥 Thanks to everyone that made this possible!!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxSQj8CX4AE4pbd.jpg:large)
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Ooo...I'm excited. Can't wait to buy and it and search the audience.
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Ooo...I'm excited. Can't wait to buy and it and search the audience.
I commented asking to make sure there's a shot of me and Patrick liked it :lol not that he knows what I look like or would do it, but pretty cool and I know I will be searching. I'm sure Nick will be in it as well.
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Ooo...I'm excited. Can't wait to buy and it and search the audience.
I commented asking to make sure there's a shot of me and Patrick liked it :lol not that he knows what I look like or would do it, but pretty cool and I know I will be searching. I'm sure Nick will be in it as well.
I'd be lucky to see myself. Being how short i am. Haha
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I can't stop listening to Redemption lately. They are definitely one of my favorite bands. The debut album is underrated, I totally love it. Basically all day today at work I pretty much had the songs "As I Lay Dying" and "Something Wicked This Way Comes" on repeat. Each album of theirs has something completely unique and special about it. :metal
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I can't stop listening to Redemption lately.
Why would you want to? JUST DO IT!
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I still spin the new album regularly. It's fast becoming my go to Redemption album.
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I still spin the new album regularly. It's fast becoming my go to Redemption album.
It's been a while since I spun it but it really has good place in my memory, will listen it later. There is definitely something about it, can't believe I'm saying because I love Ray so much, it may be my favorite of their albums.
BTW anyone else love their rendition of New Year's Day as much as I do? The fact I'm unfamiliar with U2 probably helps a bit :lol
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Yea, it's a highlight of the album for me. So well done and a good change of pace song for the album.
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There is definitely something about it, can't believe I'm saying because I love Ray so much, it may be my favorite of their albums.
Yeah, I kind of feel that way too. It's such a great album. But I LOVE Ray's work on Snowfall. Hard to say which is my favorite. Thankfully, I don't have to choose one over the other. I'll just enjoy both! :D
BTW anyone else love their rendition of New Year's Day as much as I do? The fact I'm unfamiliar with U2 probably helps a bit :lol
Yeah, it's a great cover. I LOVE the original. But I might just like this cover even more.
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I can't stop listening to Redemption lately. They are definitely one of my favorite bands. The debut album is underrated, I totally love it. Basically all day today at work I pretty much had the songs "As I Lay Dying" and "Something Wicked This Way Comes" on repeat. Each album of theirs has something completely unique and special about it. :metal
it's rare to see someone talk about the debut album, kudos to you. Personally it's a tough spin for me, vox are iffy and the lyrics are way to wordy.
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it's rare to see someone talk about the debut album, kudos to you. Personally it's a tough spin for me, vox are iffy and the lyrics are way to wordy.
Um..this is NOT a Dream Theater thread.. ;D
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:rollin OMG that's amazing
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Long Night could rival Snowfall as my fav Redemption album, but I don't see it overtaking it.
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Just found out Origins of Ruin, Snowfall and This Mortal Coil are no longer on Spotify.
Made me wonder if there's any recent news about Redemption. They were scheduled to headline on Progpower Europe but apparently cancelled and I haven't heard the reason.
Let's hope everything is ok with the guys and we don't have too wait too long for a new album or a tour.
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Nick was apparently in Atlanta while Evergrey was in for PPUSA. I did ask Tom about the DVD, and he quickly shouted "Nick" trying to find him to deflect. :lol
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:lol
Nick was definitely there - saw him walk up to Tom at the bar at like 1 AM one night.
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What were you doing up? That is WAY past your bedtime.
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What were you doing up? That is WAY past your bedtime.
I was getting jiggy with it. :heybaby:
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Just found out Origins of Ruin, Snowfall and This Mortal Coil are no longer on Spotify.
Made me wonder if there's any recent news about Redemption. They were scheduled to headline on Progpower Europe but apparently cancelled and I haven't heard the reason.
Let's hope everything is ok with the guys and we don't have too wait too long for a new album or a tour.
Spotify sometimes puts material that is not officially released by the label. This might be a reason. Other reasons would maybe include that Nuclear Blast bought the Redemption catalog (the Inside Out releases) and are going to release it in some way and then it will make it's way to digital outlets (the Threshold catalog was bought by Nuclear Blast and was re-released afterwards).
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What were you doing up? That is WAY past your bedtime.
I was getting jiggy with it. :heybaby:
But...I wasn't even there! :(
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What were you doing up? That is WAY past your bedtime.
I was getting jiggy with it. :heybaby:
But...I wasn't even there! :(
I was born to be wild, but the cage was too small. I was regularly getting to bed anywhere between 4 and 8 AM. :lol
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Nick was apparently in Atlanta while Evergrey was in for PPUSA. I did ask Tom about the DVD, and he quickly shouted "Nick" trying to find him to deflect. :lol
Nick and Tom were chilling at the artmore bar for awhile, I'm pretty sure Nick said the dvd will be out soon
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:soon:
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So there was an update today on the live album recorded at Progpower from 2018. There was a link to a private video of Peace Sells which won't be on the video for the backers of this, and it looks/sounds really good. They hope for a May release and this is the tracklist for the video:
Intro / Noonday Devil
The Suffocating Silence
The Echo Chamber
Damaged
Someone Else's Problem
Little Men
Long Night's Journey into Day
Threads (featuring Ray Alder)
Black & White World
Indulge in Color (featuring Chris Poland)
Walls
The CD will include Peace Cells (similar to how SOA didn't include some covers in their live video but only on CD due to copyright hurdles) as well as Threads with Tom singing :metal
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Weird. Haven’t received an email on this update even though I pledged.
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Weird. Haven’t received an email on this update even though I pledged.
Ninja'd
Just went to the Kickstarter page and saw the videio. Video and audio are pristine. Can't wait to watch it \m/
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Weird. Haven’t received an email on this update even though I pledged.
Ninja'd
Just went to the Kickstarter page and saw the videio. Video and audio are pristine. Can't wait to watch it \m/
ditto, and ditto.
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Revisiting the Redemption discography on shuffle here at work. Man, some great music. But I got to be honest, I do miss Ray on vocals. I absolutely love Tom's voice in Evergrey but i just don't feel him with Redemption.
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Revisiting the Redemption discography on shuffle here at work. Man, some great music. But I got to be honest, I do miss Ray on vocals. I absolutely love Tom's voice in Evergrey but i just don't feel him with Redemption.
Totally agree. Sometimes I think we're musical brothers. Not the same band without Ray.
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Revisiting the Redemption discography on shuffle here at work. Man, some great music. But I got to be honest, I do miss Ray on vocals. I absolutely love Tom's voice in Evergrey but i just don't feel him with Redemption.
I love both vocalists. I love Tom in Redemption. Long Night in time might battle Snowfall as my fav Redemption album.
What happened to the DVD? I forgot all about that.
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What happened to the DVD? I forgot all about that.
So there was an update today on the live album recorded at Progpower from 2018. There was a link to a private video of Peace Sells which won't be on the video for the backers of this, and it looks/sounds really good. They hope for a May release and this is the tracklist for the video:
Intro / Noonday Devil
The Suffocating Silence
The Echo Chamber
Damaged
Someone Else's Problem
Little Men
Long Night's Journey into Day
Threads (featuring Ray Alder)
Black & White World
Indulge in Color (featuring Chris Poland)
Walls
The CD will include Peace Cells (similar to how SOA didn't include some covers in their live video but only on CD due to copyright hurdles) as well as Threads with Tom singing :metal
no new update I'm aware of since then, I hope we get to see this soon. Would be a nice treat during all this stay home time we've got
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Yeah no update since then means a May release looks slim. Fingers crossed.
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I'm getting increasingly annoyed about this DVD. It's one thing to take 18+ months to produce a DVD that is crowdfunded, but the lack of consistent updates for the "investors" is the bigger issue (for me). I hadn't contributed to many crowdfunded thing - this kind of behaviour is precisely why, and why I'll most likely never contribute to any crowdfunding in the future ... oh, as well as Pledge going out of business and screwing over so many musicians and fans.
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I'm getting increasingly annoyed about this DVD. It's one thing to take 18+ months to produce a DVD that is crowdfunded, but the lack of consistent updates for the "investors" is the bigger issue (for me). I hadn't contributed to many crowdfunded thing - this kind of behaviour is precisely why, and why I'll most likely never contribute to any crowdfunding in the future ... oh, as well as Pledge going out of business and screwing over so many musicians and fans.
Bingo! I would never ever even consider crowdfunding anything.
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I've crowdfunded multiple things. In some cases I haven't spent any more than I would normally - for example, one of Voyager's albums. It was like a long pre-order for something I was going to buy anyway and it helped the band out.
For something like this, I kind of expect a long wait on a dvd. Maybe they should chime in with more updates, but as long as I get what I paid for in the end, I'm good.
Add me to the "I miss Ray" crowd though. I'm a big fan of Tom, but his vocals with Redemption just seem a bit lifeless.
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I'm getting increasingly annoyed about this DVD. It's one thing to take 18+ months to produce a DVD that is crowdfunded, but the lack of consistent updates for the "investors" is the bigger issue (for me). I hadn't contributed to many crowdfunded thing - this kind of behaviour is precisely why, and why I'll most likely never contribute to any crowdfunding in the future ... oh, as well as Pledge going out of business and screwing over so many musicians and fans.
I had never done a crowd funding before and my only reason to join in this time was because it was the filming of a concert I was going to attend. Thought that was really cool and felt I wanted to be apart of it even in a small way. I totally expected a long time before release, but I do agree with you that there's really been little to no updates that make me wonder if I should have joined in on the crowdfunding or not.
The video clip we did get was really nice though, so I still have some high hopes we will get a quality release at some point and the patience will pay off.
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I've never crowdfunded anything. I don't like putting my money in something that hasn't been created yet. If I pay money it's in exchange for something on the spot.
I'm sure Nick is doing his best with the release though.
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I've been listening to a lot of Redemption lately too. The album I gave the most shit to, This Mortal Coil, might actually be my favorite. My opinions mostly still stand, but I'm able to put those aside because the music is so good despite being derivative. I love the guy, but Nick copies himself just as much as Jon Schaffer.
Even though technology has turned all of my blank CDs into coasters, I still try to come up with 80 minute playlists on my phone. My new 2018 car doesn't even have a CD player. That was my jam back in the day. Having no life, I was always making mix and best of CDs of my favorite bands. I got Dream Theater down to 4 CDs. Anyway, it's really hard to make a single disc length CD for Redemption. I was able to get 11 songs with about a minute and a half to spare. Then trying to mix the songs up to flow a little better was equally difficult. Here's what I got:
Damaged
The Death of Faith and Reason
Let it Rain
Release
Transcendence
Black and White World
Indulge in Color
The Origins of Ruin
Dreams from the Pit
Memory
Love Kills Us All/Life in One Day
1:18:52
Of course, not having the restriction of an 80 minute CD, my other playlist is 2:43:38.
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This Mortal Coil rules! :metal
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I've been listening to a lot of Redemption lately too. The album I gave the most shit to, This Mortal Coil, might actually be my favorite. My opinions mostly still stand, but I'm able to put those aside because the music is so good despite being derivative. I love the guy, but Nick copies himself just as much as Jon Schaffer.
Even though technology has turned all of my blank CDs into coasters, I still try to come up with 80 minute playlists on my phone. My new 2018 car doesn't even have a CD player. That was my jam back in the day. Having no life, I was always making mix and best of CDs of my favorite bands. I got Dream Theater down to 4 CDs. Anyway, it's really hard to make a single disc length CD for Redemption. I was able to get 11 songs with about a minute and a half to spare. Then trying to mix the songs up to flow a little better was equally difficult. Here's what I got:
Damaged
The Death of Faith and Reason
Let it Rain
Release
Transcendence
Black and White World
Indulge in Color
The Origins of Ruin
Dreams from the Pit
Memory
Love Kills Us All/Life in One Day
1:18:52
Of course, not having the restriction of an 80 minute CD, my other playlist is 2:43:38.
Interesting playlist. Showing the strength of the band, I probably wouldn't have many of those songs on mine, probably just a couple.
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Just as we were talking about lack of updates, here's some Redemption news:
http://bravewords.com/news/redemption-signs-with-afm-records
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Just as we were talking about lack of updates, here's some Redemption news:
http://bravewords.com/news/redemption-signs-with-afm-records
Well there you go.
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Just as we were talking about lack of updates, here's some Redemption news:
http://bravewords.com/news/redemption-signs-with-afm-records
:lol yup just as we were talking about it
Progressive metal act, Redemption, has signed a deal with AFM Records, beginning with the release of its live album Alive in Color (as CD/BluRay or CD/DVD), recorded during Redemption’s headlining appearance at the ProgPower USA festival, as well as the forthcoming eigth studio album in the near future.
:metal
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Cool. Hopefully the Bluray is done and a released date will be announced soon.
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Yeah, now that they have the support of a label, I hope this will finally get completed.
Again, my beef isn't as much about the time, it's the lack of updates. I mean, how hard would it have been to just float a monthly message - hell, even something a few weeks ago hinting at some very big news coming shortly. I mean, it's not like they (band and label) just connected and negotiated this deal last weekend.
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Yeah, now that they have the support of a label, I hope this will finally get completed.
Again, my beef isn't as much about the time, it's the lack of updates. I mean, how hard would it have been to just float a monthly message - hell, even something a few weeks ago hinting at some very big news coming shortly. I mean, it's not like they (band and label) just connected and negotiated this deal last weekend.
Nick likely couldn't say anything either. Could be he didn't really know either whether it was a final deal yet.
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Yeah, now that they have the support of a label, I hope this will finally get completed.
Again, my beef isn't as much about the time, it's the lack of updates. I mean, how hard would it have been to just float a monthly message - hell, even something a few weeks ago hinting at some very big news coming shortly. I mean, it's not like they (band and label) just connected and negotiated this deal last weekend.
For some reason, I'm legitimately surprised by the label announcement. Didn't they sign on to Metal Blade Records just a few years ago? :lol
Still, good news is good news! :metal
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Yeah, now that they have the support of a label, I hope this will finally get completed.
Again, my beef isn't as much about the time, it's the lack of updates. I mean, how hard would it have been to just float a monthly message - hell, even something a few weeks ago hinting at some very big news coming shortly. I mean, it's not like they (band and label) just connected and negotiated this deal last weekend.
Nick likely couldn't say anything either. Could be he didn't really know either whether it was a final deal yet.
True. It might have been in discussions for a bit too ironing out specifics which would have resulted in lack of updates.
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Seen in my FB feed from AFM:
Redemption to release "Alive In Color" BluRay/2CD and DVD/2CD sets on August 28th!
Co-headlining the ProgPower USA festival, Redemption's "Alive In Color" captures the perfect musicianship of all members in the band, making this concert a real treat for fans of Progressive Metal!
I commented in that at least we're getting updates from the label, since those of us the funded thru Kickstarter haven't heard jack since the end of Jan.
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Sweet, we got a release date. :metal
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Perfect early birthday present for me. Even better cause I was there.
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Seen in my FB feed from AFM:
Redemption to release "Alive In Color" BluRay/2CD and DVD/2CD sets on August 28th!
Co-headlining the ProgPower USA festival, Redemption's "Alive In Color" captures the perfect musicianship of all members in the band, making this concert a real treat for fans of Progressive Metal!
I commented in that at least we're getting updates from the label, since those of us the funded thru Kickstarter haven't heard jack since the end of Jan.
IIRC, for the last Kickstarter, what Nick did was arrange all shipping through LaserCD.com. We would only pay shipping cost and the product would be shipped. But the distribution wasn't handled by Nick. Maybe AFM will handle shipping and distribution as well.
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Good news.
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That's only for Europe though. I don't want to place an order for something that I might not end up getting until way later.
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Check out the first video from our upcoming live BluRay "Alive in Color," "Indulge in Color" feat. Chris Poland on lead guitar!
The L.A. based progressive metal heroes Redemption, based in Los Angeles, is one of the leading progressive metal bands in the world today. Today they allow you to take a first glimpse on the upcoming BluRay/2-CD and DVD/2-CD Digipak-sets “Alive in Color” (to be released August 28th, 2020). Enjoy this fantastic live version of “Indulge In Color” recorded at ProgPower USA 2018, topped off by the beautiful performance of Chris Poland (ex-Megadeth) on guitar.
The stunning live performance and this great musicianship has been caught on tape with multiple cameras under the direction of Patric Ullaeus (known for his videos for Evergrey, In Flames, Arch Enemy, Amaranthe and others).
Get your copy & listen to the single here: https://fanlink.to/RedemptionAliveInColor
https://youtu.be/N4v4IuRJIVY
Gonna watch now...
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:metal :metal :metal like the sound of this live album
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:metal :metal :metal like the sound of this live album
Remember how they recorded the other night. I think some of his vocals were taken from that night. :biggrin:
I haven't looked to see if I can find myself.
I agree too, it sounds nice and fantastic. Brought me back to being there.
Also, I can't figure out where to order this from.
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Great video. Very much looking forward to this.
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:metal :metal :metal like the sound of this live album
Remember how they recorded the other night. I think some of his vocals were taken from that night. :biggrin:
I haven't looked to see if I can find myself.
I agree too, it sounds nice and fantastic. Brought me back to being there.
Also, I can't figure out where to order this from.
Yea, I believe they recorded and performed the show t an empty Center Stage the morning of the concert, if I recall. I'm sure there's a mix of audio from both to make this come out crisp (and maybe some post production). Either way, it had a nice sound to it and video was clear. Looking forward to getting my copy.
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:metal :metal :metal like the sound of this live album
Remember how they recorded the other night. I think some of his vocals were taken from that night. :biggrin:
I haven't looked to see if I can find myself.
I agree too, it sounds nice and fantastic. Brought me back to being there.
Also, I can't figure out where to order this from.
Yea, I believe they recorded and performed the show t an empty Center Stage the morning of the concert, if I recall. I'm sure there's a mix of audio from both to make this come out crisp (and maybe some post production). Either way, it had a nice sound to it and video was clear. Looking forward to getting my copy.
I noticed it right away, with the way Chris Poland's guitar sounds. But, I still enjoyed it.
Also, where did you buy it from? Each link takes me to a European site.
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Holy shit, Tom Englund's stage presence is as lifeless as his vocals.
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Holy shit, Tom Englund's stage presence is as lifeless as his vocals.
I remember watching videos last year and cutting him a lot of slack. He's a guitar player and a singer in Evergrey and can hide behind the guitar and mic stand there, but he doesn't have those in Redemption. I think that was one of the first times that he fronted a band for a full performance with only a microphone, so it may have been a bit foreign to him.
Not a big deal to me, but it definitely is noticeable.
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I didn't realize he also played guitar in Evergrey.
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Yeah, and I think he's got a great presence with Evergrey. Reconfirmed after watching the live stream today. With Redemption he just seemed a little lost. Like Grappler, I cut him slack there. It was night and day though when Ray Alder came out for a song.
As far as Tom's vocals - I love his voice with Evergrey. With Redemption, he just sounds so bland. I know they don't want to sound like Evergrey but they're not going to. The songs are different, the players are different. I hope Tom just lets loose if he does another album with them.
I did buy this though, and I hope some of the other songs come off better.
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I didn't realize he also played guitar in Evergrey.
Amazing lead guitarist. The solo on A Touch of Blessing is Tom. I know you didn't mind that one as the solo gave you Shenker vibes. All Tom that solo.
Was disappointed he didn't join in the shred fest on Long Night.
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Holy shit, Tom Englund's stage presence is as lifeless as his vocals.
Check A Night to Remember DVD. Completely different and much more dominating stage presence with his guitar. He definitely feels vulnerable here it seems.
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Tom was fabulous when I saw Evergrey live. There were like 100 people in the venue and he still gave it all during the gig. This video definitely doesn't do him justice.
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Holy shit, Tom Englund's stage presence is as lifeless as his vocals.
First time performing with a the band, he had the lyrics in front of him on an ipad it seems. I'll cut him some slack for that and knowing that he is in much more control in his own band as the front man so I don't think it's a him thing, but a situational thing.
Also, where did you buy it from? Each link takes me to a European site.
I contributed to the kickstarted before the festival that year. So I should be getting a signed blu-ray.
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Holy shit, Tom Englund's stage presence is as lifeless as his vocals.
First time performing with a the band, he had the lyrics in front of him on an ipad it seems. I'll cut him some slack for that and knowing that he is in much more control in his own band as the front man so I don't think it's a him thing, but a situational thing.
Also, where did you buy it from? Each link takes me to a European site.
I contributed to the kickstarted before the festival that year. So I should be getting a signed blu-ray.
Damn, looks like I have to wait until they have a US shop available. Or just give in and buy from the Overseas shop and not get it until the restrictions are lifted.
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Had to wait 2 more weeks.
Finally, they put up a US store link. Ordered right away as I saw it. You can use the same link, the US store is Laser CD.
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Had to wait 2 more weeks.
Finally, they put up a US store link. Ordered right away as I saw it. You can use the same link, the US store is Laser CD.
Link?
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Had to wait 2 more weeks.
Finally, they put up a US store link. Ordered right away as I saw it. You can use the same link, the US store is Laser CD.
Link?
https://www.lasercd.com/search_results?fulltext=Redemption%20preorder
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Had to wait 2 more weeks.
Finally, they put up a US store link. Ordered right away as I saw it. You can use the same link, the US store is Laser CD.
Link?
My bad. Forgot to say you can use the link that's been posted. The store is just added to that link.
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Received my advance of the new live album (audio) on Friday as a download. I have to say, I'm just a few songs in, but I am enjoying it a lot. I don't want to comment about the way it "sounds" per se, since this mp3 and on my laptop. But the band is full of energy and so far, I'm really impressed. I wasn't sold on Tom Englund taking over for Ray. I tried many times to get into Evergrey, but Tom's voice and I didn't connect how I wished we would. I tried the Redemption album with him as well...didn't really do it for me. But this live set is making me think hard about going back and revisiting. I'm really digging it. Great job by all involved. :metal
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Walls sounds really good with Tom too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQNLgAY74yU
Samsara, if you haven't checked out Evergrey's latest album, it's probably one of their best so that would be a good place to start if you consider revisiting them.
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I'd still say to check out Hymns for the Broken as I think it's the best modern Evergrey album. The new one is solid though.
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Hymns is definitely the best later period Evergrey. Recreation Day the best of the old stuff very cl loosely followed by In Search of Truth.
The Atlantic was a grower for me but very very good.
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The Storm Within is the best them.
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Walls sounds really good with Tom too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQNLgAY74yU
Really enjoying the sound of this live album
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I sure miss Ray's voice in this band. Especially on a song like Walls.
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I sure miss Ray's voice in this band. Especially on a song like Walls.
Yeah me too. Glad he came out and sang Threads.
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Listening to this on Spotify.
Takes me back to being there.
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Walls sounds really good with Tom too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQNLgAY74yU
Samsara, if you haven't checked out Evergrey's latest album, it's probably one of their best so that would be a good place to start if you consider revisiting them.
I may have to do that as well. They never did much for me either, so I wasn't very excited initially to find out that Ray was out of Redemption and Tom was in. But I thought he really did a fantastic job on Long Night's Journey. That one is right up there with Snowfall competing for the top spot for me. So, not sure whether it is a case of his voice just sounding very fitting for the Redemption material, if I am warming up to this voice, or a bit of both. But I am definitely open to checking out Evergrey again. I am completely sold on Tom being the vocalist for Redemption, even though I do miss Ray.
Live, he doesn't seem to be as into it as a frontman. I know he wasn't really as prepped for the ProgPower show, which is understandable. But I wonder if he might also just be more comfortable if he had a guitar in his hands. I remember Nick saying that the two of them had decided that he wouldn't play guitar in Redemption so as to avoid it sounding like Evergrey 2.0. But in a live setting, if it makes him look more comfortable having a guitar, especially during instrumental breaks where he has nothing to do otherwise, I don't think it could hurt to have him play. There are certainly enough layered guitar parts on the albums for him to play a part.
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Walls sounds really good with Tom too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQNLgAY74yU
Samsara, if you haven't checked out Evergrey's latest album, it's probably one of their best so that would be a good place to start if you consider revisiting them.
I may have to do that as well. They never did much for me either, so I wasn't very excited initially to find out that Ray was out of Redemption and Tom was in. But I thought he really did a fantastic job on Long Night's Journey. That one is right up there with Snowfall competing for the top spot for me. So, not sure whether it is a case of his voice just sounding very fitting for the Redemption material, if I am warming up to this voice, or a bit of both. But I am definitely open to checking out Evergrey again. I am completely sold on Tom being the vocalist for Redemption, even though I do miss Ray.
Live, he doesn't seem to be as into it as a frontman. I know he wasn't really as prepped for the ProgPower show, which is understandable. But I wonder if he might also just be more comfortable if he had a guitar in his hands. I remember Nick saying that the two of them had decided that he wouldn't play guitar in Redemption so as to avoid it sounding like Evergrey 2.0. But in a live setting, if it makes him look more comfortable having a guitar, especially during instrumental breaks where he has nothing to do otherwise, I don't think it could hurt to have him play. There are certainly enough layered guitar parts on the albums for him to play a part.
This. From the clips I've seen from this DVD, I think Tom playing guitar would have made the thing much more epic and believable. I hope they revisit this decision in the future for the next album.
Tom's lead playing is actually amazing too and was disappointed when it was announced he wouldn't be doing any leads on the album.
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Since the blu-ray was delayed a week, I'm taking the audio for a spin today. I really love the sound of this release, the mix and production is fantastic. The guitars are so crunchy and crystal clear and the keys and bass aren't lost at all. Can't wait to watch the video portion of the show!
What I do like is hearing a little of Tom's regular-styled vocals coming through on some of the older songs. I get why he chose to do things differently on the studio album, but it just makes me want to hear him go full on Tom on the next disc. Regardless, he's an amazing singer and I love the versatility that he's showing between the two bands. He sounds fantastic on this live album.
If you listen to Noonday Devil on the live album and enjoy Tom's vocals, I don't see why you wouldn't like him in Evergrey.
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I have to be honest, Tom's over-the-top style in Evergrey was and still is one of the things that has prevented me from enjoying more of their music.
When I first heard this album I had no idea Ray Alder had left and I was shocked to hear a different vocalist but I went with it and he really grew on me a lot and so by the time I finished my first listen to the album I thought this guy was a good replacement. I had NO IDEA it was Tom.
If he sang like this in Evergrey they might have been my favorite band. :eek This is so much better than all that forced, over-emotive stuff he does with Evergrey.
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My digipack with Blu-Ray came in today. Gonna look for myself in the video, if I don't get side tracked by the playing haha.
But there's a picture of the audience where the Blu-ray sits and I believe I found myself. Basing this off of pictures I have from that night.
(https://i.ibb.co/TWmm6xC/20200916-155555-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y0ppmFr)
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I guess that should put me right behind you or something :lol That's pretty cool... still waiting for my signed copy from the kickstarter.
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I guess that should put me right behind you or something :lol That's pretty cool... still waiting for my signed copy from the kickstarter.
It was a fantastic show and am so grateful to be a part of it, and have an official momento.
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So close to this happening to me
(https://i.ibb.co/x3hzzQK/885148-1340812878773-235-313.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
picture to url (https://imgbb.com/)
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I guess that should put me right behind you or something :lol That's pretty cool... still waiting for my signed copy from the kickstarter.
Fixed. I replied to Nick that I didn’t give a dan, I just want to watch the damned thing. Still no idea when they’re gonna ship to the ORIGINAL backers.
Seriously, the way they’ve handled the Kickstarter campaign has pretty much guaranteed I’ll never crowdfund again. Virtually no communication in 2 years, and now the label gets the lions share of attention. @ Ben, did you contribute to Kickstarter, or order once they had the AFM deal.
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(https://i.ibb.co/TWmm6xC/20200916-155555-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y0ppmFr)
No one is wearing a mask! ;D
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I guess that should put me right behind you or something :lol That's pretty cool... still waiting for my signed copy from the kickstarter.
Fixed. I replied to Nick that I didn’t give a dan, I just want to watch the damned thing. Still no idea when they’re gonna ship to the ORIGINAL backers.
Seriously, the way they’ve handled the Kickstarter campaign has pretty much guaranteed I’ll never crowdfund again. Virtually no communication in 2 years, and now the label gets the lions share of attention. @ Ben, did you contribute to Kickstarter, or order once they had the AFM deal.
I ordered once the AFM orders were available. If I knew about the kickstarter, I would've gotten it then. It's unfortunate you guys are getting the short end of it.
Edit: And Boo...I can't watch this on my laptop. The Disc shows up in my player name and all. But it won't play the disc. It plays on the one I use for my TV.
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There’s an update in the “updates” section of the campaign. They should be shipping soon. But you need to email Nick if your address has been updated or if you want all of the band members’ signatures.
For whatever reason, I don’t email notifications when updates are posted from the KS campaign.
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Kickstarter has stopped sending me emails because I didn't verify my email address some time ago, when they sent out re-verification emails.
Regarding the Redemption campaign, I understood the message as everyone being required to send their address and format of choice (DVD or Blu-ray) even if they haven't changed.
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There’s an update in the “updates” section of the campaign. They should be shipping soon. But you need to email Nick if your address has been updated or if you want all of the band members’ signatures.
For whatever reason, I don’t email notifications when updates are posted from the KS campaign.
I already did that - last week. I too am not getting notifications where there are updates in the Campaign. But again...I have a beef that orders from AFM or whatever other distribution outlet are already being fulfilled, and KS backers are still
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fi%2F424.gif&hash=06542625829ffea4f1f71717619a3ea9ad116881)
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Yea, the process turns me off too. I even considered just buying from AFM to get my copy quick and then telling Redemption to hold onto my copy until the whole band can sign, but I'm honestly just a little turned off to want to spend more money now. I was really behind the idea of the kickstarter being that I knew I would be in attendance, but at the end of the day, it is starting to sour me as it seems the backers get a bit of the shaft here which is unfortunate. I'm still looking forward to getting this, but my anticipation has definitely weakened because I have no idea when this will arrive. The last update said "next week" and that was almost two weeks ago.
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Watching the Blu-Ray now...
Really great sound and video...
Also, I saw The Walrus all jamming out at the end of NoonDay Devil
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My Kickstarter Bluray arrived today.
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An update from Sept. 29 says all BRs are in the mail except for those who wanted the Bluray signed by the whole band and would have to wait a bit longer.
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I got mine last week and watched the first few songs which were really good. Solid sound and video quality, performance is tight. :metal :metal No sightings of myself though. After seeing the Haken PP show on DVD and now this, I seem to always stand just outside the camera view.
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I got mine last week and watched the first few songs which were really good. Solid sound and video quality, performance is tight. :metal :metal No sightings of myself though. After seeing the Haken PP show on DVD and now this, I seem to always stand just outside the camera view.
At least you're not short... :rollin
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I found myself rocking out during The Echo Chamber and Nick is clearly shown earlier :metal :metal
Also, I saw a DTFer in the credits :yarr
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I found myself rocking out during The Echo Chamber and Nick is clearly shown earlier :metal :metal
Also, I saw a DTFer in the credits :yarr
:metal :metal
I haven't really looked, to be honest.
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but it just makes me want to hear him go full on Tom on the next disc.
Oh, man, I hope this NEVER happens. I don't want this band to sound like Evergrey. In fact, it's his vocals in Evergrey that I find kind of unlistenable to be honest. He layers it on way too thick for me. When I first heard him on this album I honestly wondered why he didn't sing like this with Evergrey, I bet they'd be FAR more popular if he did.
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I must be crazy, to me he just sounds like Tom in both bands. I can't that big a difference in his voice.
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I must be crazy, to me he just sounds like Tom in both bands. I can't that big a difference in his voice.
It's not his voice, it's the delivery that's different. Tom sings the same way Ray sings in Redemption which is very straightforward, but he sings with much more power and emotion in Evergrey IMO. I can see how it would turn someone off, but I think both suite their respective music fine the way it is.
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I must be crazy, to me he just sounds like Tom in both bands. I can't that big a difference in his voice.
It's not his voice, it's the delivery that's different. Tom sings the same way Ray sings in Redemption which is very straightforward, but he sings with much more power and emotion in Evergrey IMO. I can see how it would turn someone off, but I think both suite their respective music fine the way it is.
I can hear it, but for me it's just not that drastically different that it would be enough to like his voice in Redemption and not Evergrey. I'm biased though as I'm a big fan of his.
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Finally finished watching the whole concert blu-ray and it's really well done. If you are a fan of the band, you should check it out for sure. So I've not been a long time fan of the band, only really got into them with the latest release (which I very much enjoyed) so when the credits rolled, I see Simone Mularoni is not a permanent member of the band. BUT, I think this guy was the star of the show. His guitar playing is very awesome on this. That's not to put down any other members, but he really stood out to me as a solid guitarist that I'm not familiar with and apparently isn't a full time member of the band. Either way, just wanted to give some props to him. The band sounds really good here, I think Tom sounds great too and I've got no issues with his performance. The ipad on the mic stand doesn't really bother me watching on video as it did live, maybe it was just edited to not really show it in a way to make it feel like Tom didn't know the lyrics or something. Ray Alder is really good in his guest spot as well, and I've never been a big fan of his (not against him or anything, just didn't love him the way lots of people do). Anyway, my points is, this is a solid release. It took awhile but I got my signed copy and I'm a happy customer at the end of the day.
Also, I did find myself in the video. At the end of Threads, Tom thanks Ray and the camera does a pan of the crowd where you can clearly see me holding my drink (Titos and club), yelling, and looking directly at the camera (I remember this too, was hoping my face made it to the video :metal). That is cramx3 style :yarr
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkQCdlJWoAEACR2?format=jpg&name=large)
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I must be crazy, to me he just sounds like Tom in both bands. I can't that big a difference in his voice.
It's not his voice, it's the delivery that's different. Tom sings the same way Ray sings in Redemption which is very straightforward, but he sings with much more power and emotion in Evergrey IMO. I can see how it would turn someone off, but I think both suite their respective music fine the way it is.
I can hear it, but for me it's just not that drastically different that it would be enough to like his voice in Redemption and not Evergrey. I'm biased though as I'm a big fan of his.
Yeah, I just find his vocals in Evergrey to be way, way, way too over the top in that overly-emotive style, it just sounds....contrived or something. Then again, I don't really care that much for their music either so go figure. Tastes, right?
I have to be honest, I really enjoyed the new album from Redemption and I quickly got used to Tom's voice, but I am having a hard time getting into this live album. Some of the backing vocals are fucking embarrassingly out of key - I still can't believe they left them in there, wow. Reminds me a little bit of the rougher moments on Once In a Livetime. I always thought Tom had a much stronger voice. Now maybe on this live album it's just the way they mixed it, but they really didn't do him any favors with the mixing. That said the band is tight as hell. Very impressive performances all around. And I'm not trying to pile on Tom. He's good, but I think they kind of fucked him on the mix here. I need to check out the DVD
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Soooo looks like there's been some drama in the ProgPower facebook group because Nick told someone "get cancer you piece of shit" ??? ???
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Soooo looks like there's been some drama in the ProgPower facebook group because Nick told someone "get cancer you piece of shit" ??? ???
I don't see him saying that unless that person said something really really horrible.
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Soooo looks like there's been some drama in the ProgPower facebook group because Nick told someone "get cancer you piece of shit" ??? ???
:corn :corn :corn :corn
Yeah, none of those comments, or threads showed up on my Facebook page. I had no idea anything happened until I saw Glenns post on the Official ProgPower USA page. I don't know what went down, or what was said, so can't comment what I really feel about it.
Other than. Good for Nick. Musicians are humans too, and have the right to say what the hell they want. There is nothing that states, a Musician, needs to act a certain way.
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Well at least Nick was finally public with his assholishness. What a fucking awful thing to say. The guy himself had cancer, why would you say that to someone else? Fuck him and his band.
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So, does anyone know what was actually said and what the context was?
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Well at least Nick was finally public with his assholishness. What a fucking awful thing to say. The guy himself had cancer, why would you say that to someone else? Fuck him and his band.
What did Nick say exactly? and what happened to make him say that?
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Weird, I remember Nick posting on this forum and he seemed a fairly chill guy. I wonder what happened there.
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Nick don't care, he's too busy getting that Activision-Blizzard money
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Nick don't care, he's too busy getting that Activision-Blizzard money
Dude, Tell us what happened.
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Well at least Nick was finally public with his assholishness. What a fucking awful thing to say. The guy himself had cancer, why would you say that to someone else? Fuck him and his band.
Yes it was an awful thing to say, especially from someone who had near terminal cancer, so the person he said that to must have done something or said something to push him to say something like that. Maybe he regrets replying that way, but anger is a natural emotion, and sometimes it's hard to control, and people say things they don't mean all the time when they're mad.
Or maybe he didn't say it at all.
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Yeah I'm completely lost.
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I asked several friends of mine who watch that group and they said the same thing. I missed it, but they're trustworthy people, and Cram echoed the same words here, too. He actually sent it in a PM to someone, he didn't post it openly. I don't know who the receiver was.
Nick has an account here and can openly contest this if he'd like, I got zero reason to make this up. I'm just telling what went down and why there was a ruckus. shrug
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I asked several friends of mine who watch that group and they said the same thing. I missed it, but they're trustworthy people, and Cram echoed the same words here, too. He actually sent it in a PM to someone, he didn't post it openly. I don't know who the receiver was.
Nick has an account here and can openly contest this if he'd like, I got zero reason to make this up. shrug
So It's a heresay thing...Since he didn't actually post it.
Man, I need more context than that before I call Nick an asshole and disavow his band.
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I never said you had to disavow his band or call him an asshole. Think for yourself. But it isn't "heresay" just because it wasn't public. There was an entire kerfuffle over the message. Shit don't just happen out of the blue for no reason. Was just following up with cram's post. Anyway that's all I got for my drive by infobomb, I'm out
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So, you heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who...
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... heard it from another you been wishin' bad things~
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Or maybe he didn't say it at all.
He definitely said it, the screen shot has been shared. The context is a bit iffy to me, I haven't seen the whole chat, but it doesn't initially look good for Nick from the bits and pieces I did see. I also heard it directly in a video chat with someone who also got shit talked to by Nick (not the same person who shared the screen shot with the quote). I'm not really involved in it though. I know Nick has posted here before so I only bring it up so that maybe he can share his side of the story.
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Sounds like someone's in need of.... redemption :hat
[Unshaken by D'Angelo intensifies]
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Or maybe he didn't say it at all.
He definitely said it, the screen shot has been shared. The context is a bit iffy to me, I haven't seen the whole chat, but it doesn't initially look good for Nick from the bits and pieces I did see. I also heard it directly in a video chat with someone who also got shit talked to by Nick (not the same person who shared the screen shot with the quote). I'm not really involved in it though. I know Nick has posted here before so I only bring it up so that maybe he can share his side of the story.
Everyone has a dark side. I don't prop Nick up as a saint. He's presented himself as a nice guy and makes good music. Doesn't mean he's always a nice guy. I have a very short temper and have yelled and screamed a great deal at home. No one at work would ever get that impression of me. But for someone who clearly pissed Nick off enough for him to say that, and then only posts "the good bits" clearly has some shady intentions. Context or not, the dude is trying to make him look bad.
And if it turns out Nick is just an asshole, oh well.
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Oh for sure, I've said things I regret before. We all have.
Yeah, none of those comments, or threads showed up on my Facebook page. I had no idea anything happened until I saw Glenns post on the Official ProgPower USA page. I don't know what went down, or what was said, so can't comment what I really feel about it.
I saw Glenns post and had no idea what that was in reference to so I went to https://www.facebook.com/groups/1257920167711993 and found the post that had this discussion going on. The group says it's public so maybe anyone can see this. The screen shots are there, but it seems the full conversation is shared privately between some of those people so I can't really comment too much more.
Nick don't care, he's too busy getting that Activision-Blizzard money
Not sure what this has to do with anything? Unless you mean since he has a solid job, he can afford to lose the Redemption fan base?
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So they were arguing about racism it seems. Speculating, but it seems Nick was called out for saying some questionable things, and it escalated.
I guess Mike LePond is an asshole too. Really, who cares? Jon Schaffer is also an asshole, but that's part of his charm.
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It's just a snarky comment about how Nick is loaded and even if he faced a big backlash from fans over this it's a drop in the bucket compared to his day job and it probably doesn't bother him much as a result, particularly because he's good friends with Glenn and co. at the fest. Also because Activision-Blizzard is a scumbag company that I will call out all day every day. So, you're right! Doesn't have to do much with anything else.
Nick's also said some caustic shit about liberals and democrats on Facebook in recent years which he quickly deletes or the thread gets deleted because it goes tits up immediately, so
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So they were arguing about racism it seems. Speculating, but it seems Nick was called out for saying some questionable things, and it escalated.
I guess Mike LePond is an asshole too. Really, who cares? Jon Schaffer is also an asshole, but that's part of his charm.
It's one thing to be an asshole, it's another to directly be an asshole to your fanbase. It's also one thing to have personal views that clash, but it's another thing to disrespect people for their views.
I've seen way too many Trump supporting musicians get shit just because they support Trump. That bothers me, but if someone said they supported Trump for racial reasons, then getting shit wouldn't bother me. I'm not sure any of that is involved here, but just saying, being an asshole in and of itself is not a big deal for me, but the circumstances could make it a problem.
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:lol who gives a shit. Nick has been great on here and I wished he posted more. He's human and someone pissed him off, deal with it. I find the comment interesting and honestly considering he had cancer, somewhat amusing.
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Yeah I couldn't disagree more with that. That's pretty callous
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:lol who gives a shit.
??? A lot of people do quite clearly. And let's be honest here too, that group of people are the ones who have been supportive of the band.
My friend and I always joke that Bruce Dickinson probably wouldn't like us on a personal level and that's fine, but if he came up to me and told me he wished I got cancer. I'd be pretty fucking upset.
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Yeah I couldn't disagree more with that. That's pretty callous
I don't find the comment amusing, just the context behind the individual having cancer. Him wishing that on someone else is wild it makes me chuckle.
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:lol who gives a shit.
??? A lot of people do quite clearly. And let's be honest here too, that group of people are the ones who have been supportive of the band.
My friend and I always joke that Bruce Dickinson probably wouldn't like us on a personal level and that's fine, but if he came up to me and told me he wished I got cancer. I'd be pretty fucking upset.
Someone must have fucked him off to say that. I feel he needs to be given benefit of the doubt here.
Honestly, we all get angry and say shit when people piss us off. He's no different in that regard to any of us. While I have never said that kind of comment, I've been known to tell people to fuck off plenty of times.
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Oh, I tell people to fuck off on the reg especially while driving :lol but that's not personal. I do agree, we don't know enough about the specific context but it seems he was not to nice to a few people, one of which I personally spoke to over the weekend. I didn't think too much of it then but then seeing the other people having the same issue, well, it seems to be more than a one off heated moment.
In the end, I really hate facebook culture. I think that's a huge part of the problem. Someone expresses an opinion and if you don't agree then things get out of hand really fast.
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Oh, I tell people to fuck off on the reg especially while driving :lol but that's not personal. I do agree, we don't know enough about the specific context but it seems he was not to nice to a few people, one of which I personally spoke to over the weekend. I didn't think too much of it then but then seeing the other people having the same issue, well, it seems to be more than a one off heated moment.
In the end, I really hate facebook culture. I think that's a huge part of the problem. Someone expresses an opinion and if you don't agree then things get out of hand really fast.
If for some reason it's a repeated thing fair enough I guess but yeah I stay off Facebook because of all this sort of shit.
There surely has to be more behind it however one would think.
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Oh, I tell people to fuck off on the reg especially while driving :lol but that's not personal. I do agree, we don't know enough about the specific context but it seems he was not to nice to a few people, one of which I personally spoke to over the weekend. I didn't think too much of it then but then seeing the other people having the same issue, well, it seems to be more than a one off heated moment.
In the end, I really hate facebook culture. I think that's a huge part of the problem. Someone expresses an opinion and if you don't agree then things get out of hand really fast.
If for some reason it's a repeated thing fair enough I guess but yeah I stay off Facebook because of all this sort of shit.
There surely has to be more behind it however one would think.
This is really why I even brought it up here, was hoping Nick could shed some light on the situation. I wouldn't expect him to do that on facebook where the hounds are let loose. I feel DTF has always been a more open space for honest discussion. I could see why he won't though.
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He hasn't posted here in a while. I could see why he wouldn't though. He may feel he doesn't need justify his reasons and that's fine with me.
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Personally, I think it's pretty shifty to publicly air private conversations. I mean, you don't see me posting my PMs with Stadler!
I kid... he ignores my PMs.
Still kidding...we have a good rapport (seriously!)
My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
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My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
Not sure why you feel we got ignored (I did the Kickstarter). I think the issue was that the platform didn't send updates even though the updates were posted at the KS page. Granted, he could have followed with emails or something, but the way I handled was visiting the page once a week. The last update was for people who wanted to the whole band to sign it to send him a note and I send him a note. I haven't received the BR so I'm assuming I'll be getting one signed by the whole band. (I hope LOL).
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My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
Not sure why you feel we got ignored (I did the Kickstarter). I think the issue was that the platform didn't send updates even though the updates were posted at the KS page. Granted, he could have followed with emails or something, but the way I handled was visiting the page once a week. The last update was for people who wanted to the whole band to sign it to send him a note and I send him a note. I haven't received the BR so I'm assuming I'll be getting one signed by the whole band. (I hope LOL).
He routinely went months without any communication / update, and then as soon as they had the AFM deal, all the focus was there. People who bought from AFM or wherever in the market had the release a full month before most backers.
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In the end, I really hate facebook culture. I think that's a huge part of the problem. Someone expresses an opinion and if you don't agree then things get out of hand really fast.
This is my main thought on this. American political culture has really gone to a very bad place over the last few years, and the format and culture of social media probably makes it worse.
I think a lot of people who were once decent and clear-minded have completely lost their heads in recent years. I've definitely seen it happen. I have my own views of why, but I don't really want to go there. I just think it's a regrettable trend that has affected a lot of people and seems to be what's at play here.
I also think we're heading for a moment when at least some musicians and other celebrities start to rethink the more personal relationships with their fans that they've been able to cultivate online. I think that's something that seems like a nice idea, but leads to problems when there are personal disagreements and clashes, as there inevitably are. The more of yourself you put out there, the more people are going to find to object to, which isn't good for business and isn't good for stress-free living. That's true even if you're a really calm, level-headed person, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
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Oh, I tell people to fuck off on the reg especially while driving :lol but that's not personal. I do agree, we don't know enough about the specific context but it seems he was not to nice to a few people, one of which I personally spoke to over the weekend. I didn't think too much of it then but then seeing the other people having the same issue, well, it seems to be more than a one off heated moment.
In the end, I really hate facebook culture. I think that's a huge part of the problem. Someone expresses an opinion and if you don't agree then things get out of hand really fast.
If for some reason it's a repeated thing fair enough I guess but yeah I stay off Facebook because of all this sort of shit.
There surely has to be more behind it however one would think.
This is really why I even brought it up here, was hoping Nick could shed some light on the situation. I wouldn't expect him to do that on facebook where the hounds are let loose. I feel DTF has always been a more open space for honest discussion. I could see why he won't though.
What makes you think he will post and shed light about a situation that has nothing to do with anything to this Board? If he does, I guarantee, based off of the comments here, he will be getting the same, but in a nicer way of words, treatment.
I read the situation, and it bugs the fuck out of me when people post things the way that guy did. First he posts a vague post about "Snowflake Musicians", and then posts a screenshot, that doesn't show anything related to the context of the conversation, we are just supposed to take their word for it (NO, that's not how this works). If he wanted to really Share his damning info, he would've posted exactly what Nick said to cause the poster to post that thread.
The OP basically called himself an Asshole as well, so there is that. Just 2 Assholes going at it.
This is how I see it...
A Musician is also a Human Being, meaning, a musician also has the rights as all the "Common people". They are not GODS. Musicians are not some special type of people, no one is special, This is the very definition of Celebrity Worship and Idolism. Why do people get upset when their Idols or People they look up to, do not act how they expect. That is called putting on a PERSONA, ALL FAMOUS people do this. Once, they walk out that door, they put on their face, sometimes they live that Face, and no one has seen their true face.
Facebook is people connecting with people, and people post their Thoughts, Things that are relevant to them and how they as a person Thinks and Feels. It reveals whom you are, your IDENTITY. Their are vast ways of thoughts and things, that some tend to collide with each other, that's normal as not everyone can be a positive, some have to be negative to start the charge. If you connect with someone, that's cool, because you share similarities. If not, that's fine too, you don't have to connect with that person, and just let them live.
You can EXPECT and ASSUME all you want, but that won't change a person from being who they are, that's their IDENTITY. If you want to change someone, Facebook IS NOT the way to do that, that's why we have Therapists and Psychologists.
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Personally, I think it's pretty shifty to publicly air private conversations. I mean, you don't see me posting my PMs with Stadler!
I kid... he ignores my PMs.
Still kidding...we have a good rapport (seriously!)
My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
Now this is an entirely different situation all together. Due to the fact this isn't personally related to Nicks Identity and Personality, It's related to the Product he puts out. It's more a business deal he promised Fans, and fans feel not prioritized. But, we are not musicians that use Kickstater, so we don't know how that works. It could be The Label handled their end of it, and got their products first. While the Nick/the band, handles everything related to the kickstarter on their own, they got the products later than the labels, and then began grouping all the orders, making sure everyone is getting the right perks, and then packaging and shipping them out. If Nick was doing that alone, I could the reason for the delay, as that is a lot of work, to sort out the Merch, and Sign the stuff that needs to be signed.
He shouldn't have to post an apology. Fans should not expect an apology. Why do fans feel they are entitled to an apology? I certainly do not expect one. I chose to pay my money, and risk the crowdfunding. I am sour because there was a band that did a Crowdfunding and I never got the package, There was nothing I could do about it. They basically took the money and ran, and there are bands that do this, those are things Misha and Herman Li talked about, and was a damn good Twitch Stream (makes me think it's why they shut his twitter down :corn...I kid).
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Meh, his comment was in a private post (as far as I can tell from what I read here), and who knows what this other guy was saying to him before what he said, so I think its a non-issue. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And also don't think its right to judge anyone's character from one little sliver in time, especially if it wasn't even meant to be shown to public (and on top of that with no context behind it).
I have no clue what Nick is like as a person, but I do know he is one of my favorite song writers (Redemption is a top 5 band for me).
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What makes you think he will post and shed light about a situation that has nothing to do with anything to this Board?
For one, he's posted here before so he knows there's fans here.
Second, pretty much everything you said.
There's a lot to be said about his situation, many things that maybe he can clear the air on. I'm literally on the edge of following or not following the band based on if he has something to say (and I understand it may not be here). The problem for me with not just brushing it off as facebook BS, is that I actually trust the sources here even if the means of exposure aren't ideal or something I really agree with. Even if he just apologized, I'd be cool. People pop off as mentioned before. I've done it. I just have no other context to rely on other than people I trust.
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My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
Not sure why you feel we got ignored (I did the Kickstarter). I think the issue was that the platform didn't send updates even though the updates were posted at the KS page. Granted, he could have followed with emails or something, but the way I handled was visiting the page once a week. The last update was for people who wanted to the whole band to sign it to send him a note and I send him a note. I haven't received the BR so I'm assuming I'll be getting one signed by the whole band. (I hope LOL).
He routinely went months without any communication / update, and then as soon as they had the AFM deal, all the focus was there. People who bought from AFM or wherever in the market had the release a full month before most backers.
Wow, that's a fucking rip.
It still amazes me that people even donate to an album that's not even made.
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I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.
I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?
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In the end, I really hate facebook culture. I think that's a huge part of the problem. Someone expresses an opinion and if you don't agree then things get out of hand really fast.
This is my main thought on this. American political culture has really gone to a very bad place over the last few years, and the format and culture of social media probably makes it worse.
I think a lot of people who were once decent and clear-minded have completely lost their heads in recent years. I've definitely seen it happen. I have my own views of why, but I don't really want to go there. I just think it's a regrettable trend that has affected a lot of people and seems to be what's at play here.
I also think we're heading for a moment when at least some musicians and other celebrities start to rethink the more personal relationships with their fans that they've been able to cultivate online. I think that's something that seems like a nice idea, but leads to problems when there are personal disagreements and clashes, as there inevitably are. The more of yourself you put out there, the more people are going to find to object to, which isn't good for business and isn't good for stress-free living. That's true even if you're a really calm, level-headed person, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
:lol :lol :lol You should've seen the people's heads. And all the pieces of brain that were on the streets after John Dolmayan from System of A Down, said he was voting Trump. And Serj said they were still friends, even though they disagreed. Then more head pieces were needing to be picked of the street. :lol
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My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
Not sure why you feel we got ignored (I did the Kickstarter). I think the issue was that the platform didn't send updates even though the updates were posted at the KS page. Granted, he could have followed with emails or something, but the way I handled was visiting the page once a week. The last update was for people who wanted to the whole band to sign it to send him a note and I send him a note. I haven't received the BR so I'm assuming I'll be getting one signed by the whole band. (I hope LOL).
He routinely went months without any communication / update, and then as soon as they had the AFM deal, all the focus was there. People who bought from AFM or wherever in the market had the release a full month before most backers.
Wow, that's a fucking rip.
It still amazes me that people even donate to an album that's not even made.
Yea, as a backer as well, thought communication was poor until all the people who just bought it when it was on sale. Got no issues with the band signatures given covid. I got mine without the full band because I didn't want to wait any longer.
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I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.
I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?
I was trying to take the high road by saying I give him the benefit of the doubt... But I get what you're saying. You're not wrong either.
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I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.
I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?
I wouldn't think he'd be rich mate.
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I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.
I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate it if someone told him to get an aneurysm like Bernie, eh?
Yeah, like the Guitarist from Labyrinth totally ignoring me when I was talking to him. :biggrin: I didn't care, I said hi, and told him good job and let him on his way. This was in the courtyard. I know darn well, not to assume everyone is friendly there, because not everyone is. That's just the facts of going to events where many different types of people go to. You should never, ever, let your guard down at events, even if people seem friendly. As I said, people have Personas they can put on when in public. I do my best not to, what you see is exactly me. I don't think I would've sat on those Ants if I had a Persona on... :lol
I wasn't at Progpower to make friends, If I did make friends then it's cool and appreciate the time spent. I went to hear the music I enjoy, played by bands I will never get the chance to see live, and I am seizing that moment. Meeting the bands too in the courtyard and at the festival itself, is just a treat and an extra perk of the festival, and I seized that opportunity to.
That's another thing too. People put on an Online Persona as well, besides their Public Persona. For some reason, a lot people put on an Asshole Persona, and end up typing words they don't mean or won't really say in a Face to Face conversation. There's a vast difference in saying things on the spot, and typing it out which gives you the opportunity to edit your thoughts. It'd be hilarious to see people type in the way we speak, meaning a constant flow without a chance for editing what was said, in this way the spelling and grammar would be horrible. :lol Maybe we need to require facebook and twitter to repeat our posts back to us in the voice of MICROSOFT SAM, to show us how ridiculous the words we type sound when actually spoken verbally.
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Meh, his comment was in a private post (as far as I can tell from what I read here), and who knows what this other guy was saying to him before what he said, so I think its a non-issue. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And also don't think its right to judge anyone's character from one little sliver in time, especially if it wasn't even meant to be shown to public (and on top of that with no context behind it).
I have no clue what Nick is like as a person, but I do know he is one of my favorite song writers (Redemption is a top 5 band for me).
:tup :tup
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What makes you think he will post and shed light about a situation that has nothing to do with anything to this Board?
For one, he's posted here before so he knows there's fans here.
Second, pretty much everything you said.
There's a lot to be said about his situation, many things that maybe he can clear the air on. I'm literally on the edge of following or not following the band based on if he has something to say (and I understand it may not be here). The problem for me with not just brushing it off as facebook BS, is that I actually trust the sources here even if the means of exposure aren't ideal or something I really agree with. Even if he just apologized, I'd be cool. People pop off as mentioned before. I've done it. I just have no other context to rely on other than people I trust.
Did those sources give you more information that we don't know or can't comprehend from the Facebook posts alone?
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What makes you think he will post and shed light about a situation that has nothing to do with anything to this Board?
For one, he's posted here before so he knows there's fans here.
Second, pretty much everything you said.
There's a lot to be said about his situation, many things that maybe he can clear the air on. I'm literally on the edge of following or not following the band based on if he has something to say (and I understand it may not be here). The problem for me with not just brushing it off as facebook BS, is that I actually trust the sources here even if the means of exposure aren't ideal or something I really agree with. Even if he just apologized, I'd be cool. People pop off as mentioned before. I've done it. I just have no other context to rely on other than people I trust.
Did those sources give you more information that we don't know or can't comprehend from the Facebook posts alone?
Not really , I feel like I've said about as much as I know. I'm not directly involved in this. I've only heard one side to the story.
I don't give the benefit of the doubt to some classist rich guy who tells people to get cancer. Two wrongs do not make a right. Be better than that.
While I once again don't know what being a rich guy has anything to do with it, the general point is kind of where I'm leaning towards.
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Meh, his comment was in a private post (as far as I can tell from what I read here), and who knows what this other guy was saying to him before what he said, so I think its a non-issue. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And also don't think its right to judge anyone's character from one little sliver in time, especially if it wasn't even meant to be shown to public (and on top of that with no context behind it).
I have no clue what Nick is like as a person, but I do know he is one of my favorite song writers (Redemption is a top 5 band for me).
I'm in line with this.
The new DVD is great too. I really enjoy it. Nick is such a dominant figure on stage. I never realised fully the presence he has.
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Personally, I think it's pretty shifty to publicly air private conversations. I mean, you don't see me posting my PMs with Stadler!
I kid... he ignores my PMs.
Still kidding...we have a good rapport (seriously!)
My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
He shouldn't have to post an apology. Fans should not expect an apology. Why do fans feel they are entitled to an apology? I certainly do not expect one. I chose to pay my money, and risk the crowdfunding.
I never said I wanted or expected an apology, just stated what *my* beef with him was.
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Don't see Nick coming on here now and trying to justify himself. :lol
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I don't know Nick other than he's a musician that I like.
Nick doesn't know me at all.
I had a friend that got the same cancer that Nick had.
I reached out to Nick on this forum privately and asked if my friend could contact him.
He didn't need to reply. I wasn't sure he would since he isn't here much.
He did and was very receptive to my friend contacting him with any questions he would have.
Nick could not have been more helpful.
So if we're going to start making private messages public I'd like to add this one. I won't post what he wrote to me but I have the utmost respect and gratitude for Nick.
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I don't know Nick other than he's a musician that I like.
Nick doesn't know me at all.
I had a friend that got the same cancer that Nick had.
I reached out to Nick on this forum privately and asked if my friend could contact him.
He didn't need to reply. I wasn't sure he would since he isn't here much.
He did and was very receptive to my friend contacting him with any questions he would have.
Nick could not have been more helpful.
So if we're going to start making private messages public I'd like to add this one. I won't post what he wrote to me but I have the utmost respect and gratitude for Nick.
Good stuff.
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Wealth being mentioned because he's out of touch and really has it in for... I'm not getting political here never mind
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Nick has always been amazing when posting on here also.
I will say though, when you put yourself in the situation where you can interact with one of your fav musicians, you have to be prepared for both ends of the spectrum. I can understand people being salty if he was a bit off, but you have to accept that fact when you put yourself in the situation.
I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night. In fact, I'd be the same if not more over it. But it does leave a bitter taste in your mouth and it did leave an impression with me on the band moving forward. To be fair though, I'm not sure why I expected anything different but I'd prefer now not to even put myself in that situation. I'd rather have my own image of who they are and what they would be like.
I do agree I have no problem with musicians being assholes (Schaffer, Malmsteen etc.) but it might be a different story if it was directed at me I suppose. But saying that, I'd be an asshole to me too. :lol
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Personally, I think it's pretty shifty to publicly air private conversations. I mean, you don't see me posting my PMs with Stadler!
I kid... he ignores my PMs.
Still kidding...we have a good rapport (seriously!)
My beef with Nick is how he all but ignored the Kickstarters for the Blu Ray. I will not likely ever crowdfund a band ever agin because of how they ran that campaign.
He shouldn't have to post an apology. Fans should not expect an apology. Why do fans feel they are entitled to an apology? I certainly do not expect one. I chose to pay my money, and risk the crowdfunding.
I never said I wanted or expected an apology, just stated what *my* beef with him was.
That wasn't meant towards you, sorry if you took it like that. I was reading the comments on the Facebook page Cram linked and put that as a general opinion.
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He shouldn't have to give an apology, just saying, if that were what his response was, I'd easily move on
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I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.
There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.
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I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.
There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.
That's a fair point mate, and I actually never thought of it that way. They weren't rude per say, just really gave the couldn't be fucking bothered vibe across and we were like cattle going through a production line. They were just there to get paid and didn't really care about meeting the fans. Seems as they get a bit more popular their gratitude starts to slide. I regret paying the money for it. We waited way longer than we were supposed to also. We had to wait in line for the meet and greet for almost 2 hours while I think 5 people had their guitar lesson thing with Tremonti. Why we had to get there but stand in line while the private guitar clinic was on was beyond me. I thought about going to the clinic but didn't want to pay that much more again. He's a good guitarist and all but not a guitar legend that I really could learn a whole heap from if I want to be arrogant.
But yeah, I never thought of that mate. That makes me even more pissed now. :lol
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Nick has always been amazing when posting on here also.
I will say though, when you put yourself in the situation where you can interact with one of your fav musicians, you have to be prepared for both ends of the spectrum. I can understand people being salty if he was a bit off, but you have to accept that fact when you put yourself in the situation.
I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night. In fact, I'd be the same if not more over it. But it does leave a bitter taste in your mouth and it did leave an impression with me on the band moving forward. To be fair though, I'm not sure why I expected anything different but I'd prefer now not to even put myself in that situation. I'd rather have my own image of who they are and what they would be like.
I do agree I have no problem with musicians being assholes (Schaffer, Malmsteen etc.) but it might be a different story if it was directed at me I suppose. But saying that, I'd be an asshole to me too. :lol
Like V_Clortho said with "if we're going to start making private messages public", wouldn't that be the same as taking out Dirty Laundry. Everyone has Dirty Laundry. Musicians are no different. I don't hold them in a high regard because I know they have dirty laundry, being musicians and more famous and being able to be let into areas we are not, it's guaranteed they are capable of having more Dirtier Laundry than we do. No one is a Saint.
Whistleblowers.... ::) :corn
By the way, When I went to a Meet and Greet with Megadeth. I asked Dave Something, I forgot what it was, and he just looked up and did the annoying laugh, and I went down the line, I was about 16-17 at the time. I was like "Fucking Ass" but I knew he was an ass, as the next tour Megadeth played, my friend told me His guitar wasn't working for the opening song where it's a guitar only intro, so he took it off and threw it tossed it, and walked off. That still doesn't affect my enjoyment of the songs Megadeth makes nor going to see them live.
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I had the same experience in a Kamelot Meet 'n' Greet. Cattle lined up to go behind a screen where the band was sitting at a table, and maybe people got one sentence or question in, or just a 'thanks; big fan' kinda thing. Like you said about AB, Kade, they weren't rude, just going thru the motions. Then we all loop around again for a photo op behind a huge-ass banner. They did seem a little more energetic for that.
As opposed to the Everygrey MnG ... the whole band just hung out at the bar (exact same venue) for 45 minutes, shot the shit, took selfies, drank beers. Very cool of them - but that's how Tom and Henrik and the gang are.
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Kamelot meet and greet? What did that set you back? $10? :rollin
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I had the same experience in a Kamelot Meet 'n' Greet. Cattle lined up to go behind a screen where the band was sitting at a table, and maybe people got one sentence or question in, or just a 'thanks; big fan' kinda thing. Like you said about AB, Kade, they weren't rude, just going thru the motions. Then we all loop around again for a photo op behind a huge-ass banner. They did seem a little more energetic for that.
As opposed to the Everygrey MnG ... the whole band just hung out at the bar (exact same venue) for 45 minutes, shot the shit, took selfies, drank beers. Very cool of them - but that's how Tom and Henrik and the gang are.
Exactly how the AB one went.
That Evergrey one sounded amazing. Tom does seem like a very gracious person.
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Kamelot meet and greet? What did that set you back? $10? :rollin
:rollin
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I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.
There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.
That's a fair point mate, and I actually never thought of it that way. They weren't rude per say, just really gave the couldn't be fucking bothered vibe across and we were like cattle going through a production line. They were just there to get paid and didn't really care about meeting the fans. Seems as they get a bit more popular their gratitude starts to slide. I regret paying the money for it. We waited way longer than we were supposed to also. We had to wait in line for the meet and greet for almost 2 hours while I think 5 people had their guitar lesson thing with Tremonti. Why we had to get there but stand in line while the private guitar clinic was on was beyond me. I thought about going to the clinic but didn't want to pay that much more again. He's a good guitarist and all but not a guitar legend that I really could learn a whole heap from if I want to be arrogant.
But yeah, I never thought of that mate. That makes me even more pissed now. :lol
I am reading "The Business of Concert Promotion and Touring" I looked up Fans in the appendix and found a couple of pages mentioning Fans. I will read this book more because it mentions "Type of (Fans)" which there are 4 types of Fans that will attend a show. The things I am reading in that book are why I am saying the things I am saying regarding this situation. It's why I mention "Fan Entitlement."
The Business doesn't work the way fans think it does. And there are things that are uncertain in how it should work. It's eye opening regarding what we really know.
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Kamelot meet and greet? What did that set you back? $10? :rollin
CANADIAN!!
(https://media1.giphy.com/avatars/captainobvious/w5HJ3fnkcDMG.gif)
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I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.
There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.
That's a fair point mate, and I actually never thought of it that way. They weren't rude per say, just really gave the couldn't be fucking bothered vibe across and we were like cattle going through a production line. They were just there to get paid and didn't really care about meeting the fans. Seems as they get a bit more popular their gratitude starts to slide. I regret paying the money for it. We waited way longer than we were supposed to also. We had to wait in line for the meet and greet for almost 2 hours while I think 5 people had their guitar lesson thing with Tremonti. Why we had to get there but stand in line while the private guitar clinic was on was beyond me. I thought about going to the clinic but didn't want to pay that much more again. He's a good guitarist and all but not a guitar legend that I really could learn a whole heap from if I want to be arrogant.
But yeah, I never thought of that mate. That makes me even more pissed now. :lol
I am reading "The Business of Concert Promotion and Touring" I looked up Fans in the appendix and found a couple of pages mentioning Fans. I will read this book more because it mentions "Type of (Fans)" which there are 4 types of Fans that will attend a show. The things I am reading in that book are why I am saying the things I am saying regarding this situation. It's why I mention "Fan Entitlement."
The Business doesn't work the way fans think it does. And there are things that are uncertain in how it should work. It's eye opening regarding what we really know.
Not sure what you are referring at with me mate, but I've kind of been agreeing with you on this.
I didn't expect them to spend a lot of time with every person, just a bit more gracious and interactive.
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Just to make sure I'm on the right page with everything here, am I correct in saying this thread has blown up this much and we still have no actual direct quotes, screenshots, or links to what was said?
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Just to make sure I'm on the right page with everything here, am I correct in saying this thread has blown up this much and we still have no actual direct quotes, screenshots, or links to what was said?
Pretty much. And any chance to take shots at you is a good thing.
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Just to make sure I'm on the right page with everything here, am I correct in saying this thread has blown up this much and we still have no actual direct quotes, screenshots, or links to what was said?
Yep.
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Just to make sure I'm on the right page with everything here, am I correct in saying this thread has blown up this much and we still have no actual direct quotes, screenshots, or links to what was said?
I saw Glenns post and had no idea what that was in reference to so I went to https://www.facebook.com/groups/1257920167711993 and found the post that had this discussion going on. The group says it's public so maybe anyone can see this. The screen shots are there, but it seems the full conversation is shared privately between some of those people so I can't really comment too much more.
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Can someone copy and post the text for us facebookless people.
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Can someone copy and post the text for us facebookless people.
I can, but it'll take a while.
Edit: If I do I'd rather it be a PM
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Can someone copy and post the text for us facebookless people.
I can, but it'll take a while.
Nah, don't bother.
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Can someone copy and post the text for us facebookless people.
I can, but it'll take a while.
Nah, don't bother.
:tup
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
So he basically made it someone else’s problem then.
-
Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
So he basically made it someone else’s problem then.
Brilliant.
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:rollin
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It doesn't help that several people in that facebook group are ultimate SJW types who chomp at the bit for any sort of toxic argument with someone they don't like or agree with. Things escalate like wildfire in that group sadly because it's a mighty echo chamber. So I can see how both sides would flare up pretty fast, but it's still uncalled for from both parties.
Especially when you're co president of Activision fucking Blizzard and you tell someone to get cancer. Jim Sterling would laugh himself into a heart attack if he got this news and a screenshot.
Here it is, btw.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgGRDvx7/124321090-10159100949888653-6017058468112978027-o.jpg)
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SJWs are the worst. But didn't Nick have cancer? If I remember correctly, that should give him the "permission" to say this type of thing, according to the sjw victim stacking :D
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:lol
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I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.
There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.
As someone who ran a record store for nearly a decade (and witnessed some pretty appauling behavior by way of entitled artists via meet&greets), I could not agree with this more. No excuse, man. I'll be honest, being on that side of things a few dozen times with some pretty big bands, the way they treated me, the guy who was grabbing their water and talking to their manager, made a huge impact on what I thought of them.
To that end, one band that sticks out in particular is none other than Disturbed. I am NOT a fan, at all, but David Drainman was beyond gracious and professional. This was well into their career, they were a HUGE band, but that dude acted like it was the first meet & greet he'd ever done, and it made all the difference with the fans. To this day, I give their new record a spin whenever it drops...respect-driven curiosity.
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
Man, I hear you, I do, but as far as I'm concerend, nothing makes that response ok. It's obviously not a crime, and the man is entitled to say whatever he wants (within reason), but as a public figure, this is a head-scratcher for me.
If someone is pissing you off, just ignore them. As far as I'm concerned, telling someone to 'get cancer' is repugnant, regardless of context. Kinda like hitting a woman...I don't care what your argument is, in my book, it's never ok. Ever.
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
Man, I hear you, I do, but as far as I'm concerend, nothing makes that response ok. It's obviously not a crime, and the man is entitled to say whatever he wants (within reason), but as a public figure, this is a head-scratcher for me.
If someone is pissing you off, just ignore them. As far as I'm concerned, telling someone to 'get cancer' is repugnant, regardless of context. Kinda like hitting a woman...I don't care what your argument is, in my book, it's never ok. Ever.
What if a woman was trying to kill you? I'm with you on not hitting women, but if a woman was coming at me with a knife or just trying to kill me, I'm using any force necessary.
I'm sure Nick didn't think his remark would be made public, but we live in an age of cancel culture, so any tiny fraction of a negative thing can get you in hot water or destroy your career. Not saying "get cancer" isn't serious, but what if he just called him a piece of shit? As someone who had cancer, he took his experience and anger and used it toward this guy. Again, we don't know what prompted him to say that, and I dont think the recipient wants anyone to know either because he'll look bad too. There was a heated argument, harsh words were exchanged and Nick got exposed. Let's see what the other guy said. I bet we won't.
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So he basically made it someone else’s problem then.
:lol
It doesn't help that several people in that facebook group are ultimate SJW types who chomp at the bit for any sort of toxic argument with someone they don't like or agree with. Things escalate like wildfire in that group sadly because it's a mighty echo chamber. So I can see how both sides would flare up pretty fast, but it's still uncalled for from both parties.
Yea, that's a reason to bring the discussion here. The PP community is such a small niche community and yet they seem to go at each others throats pretty often.
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
Man, I hear you, I do, but as far as I'm concerend, nothing makes that response ok. It's obviously not a crime, and the man is entitled to say whatever he wants (within reason), but as a public figure, this is a head-scratcher for me.
If someone is pissing you off, just ignore them. As far as I'm concerned, telling someone to 'get cancer' is repugnant, regardless of context. Kinda like hitting a woman...I don't care what your argument is, in my book, it's never ok. Ever.
What if a woman was trying to kill you? I'm with you on not hitting women, but if a woman was coming at me with a knife or just trying to kill me, I'm using any force necessary.
I'm sure Nick didn't think his remark would be made public, but we live in an age of cancel culture, so any tiny fraction of a negative thing can get you in hot water or destroy your career. Not saying "get cancer" isn't serious, but what if he just called him a piece of shit? As someone who had cancer, he took his experience and anger and used it toward this guy. Again, we don't know what prompted him to say that, and I dont think the recipient wants anyone to know either because he'll look bad too. There was a heated argument, harsh words were exchanged and Nick got exposed. Let's see what the other guy said. I bet we won't.
Lol...I knew someone was going to say that. I said 'I don't care what your argument is', as in 'I don't care what a woman says to you, there's no reason to hit her.'
Just my opinion, but I don't care what was said, Nick's response (assuming the screen shot wasn't doctored) is out of line.
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
Man, I hear you, I do, but as far as I'm concerend, nothing makes that response ok. It's obviously not a crime, and the man is entitled to say whatever he wants (within reason), but as a public figure, this is a head-scratcher for me.
If someone is pissing you off, just ignore them. As far as I'm concerned, telling someone to 'get cancer' is repugnant, regardless of context. Kinda like hitting a woman...I don't care what your argument is, in my book, it's never ok. Ever.
But that's my point with "Public Figures" being required to act unlike Human Beings and like Saints. They are not Saints. They are human and are capable of bad things as we "common folk" are.
All this is because people hold "Public Figures" A.K.A Celebrities/Idols to a higher regard than a person on the street. That is the very definition of Idolizing a human to the point of Sainthood, and people do that a lot. Even to local "heroes"
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Ben why do you capitalize everything?
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Ben why do you capitalize everything?
Emphasis...
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
Man, I hear you, I do, but as far as I'm concerend, nothing makes that response ok. It's obviously not a crime, and the man is entitled to say whatever he wants (within reason), but as a public figure, this is a head-scratcher for me.
If someone is pissing you off, just ignore them. As far as I'm concerned, telling someone to 'get cancer' is repugnant, regardless of context. Kinda like hitting a woman...I don't care what your argument is, in my book, it's never ok. Ever.
But that's my point with "Public Figures" being required to act unlike Human Beings and like Saints. They are not Saints. They are human and are capable of bad things as we "common folk" are.
All this is because people hold "Public Figures" A.K.A Celebrities/Idols to a higher regard than a person on the street. That is the very definition of Idolizing a human to the point of Sainthood, and people do that a lot. Even to local "heroes"
Fair enough...and I agree with the sentiment of your post. I never said he was required to act like anything. If you, my sister, or anyone else for that matter, told someone to 'get cancer,' I'd have the same thoughts.
Nick's stature as an artist holds little weight with me.
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
Man, I hear you, I do, but as far as I'm concerend, nothing makes that response ok. It's obviously not a crime, and the man is entitled to say whatever he wants (within reason), but as a public figure, this is a head-scratcher for me.
If someone is pissing you off, just ignore them. As far as I'm concerned, telling someone to 'get cancer' is repugnant, regardless of context. Kinda like hitting a woman...I don't care what your argument is, in my book, it's never ok. Ever.
But that's my point with "Public Figures" being required to act unlike Human Beings and like Saints. They are not Saints. They are human and are capable of bad things as we "common folk" are.
All this is because people hold "Public Figures" A.K.A Celebrities/Idols to a higher regard than a person on the street. That is the very definition of Idolizing a human to the point of Sainthood, and people do that a lot. Even to local "heroes"
Fair enough...and I agree with the sentiment of your post. I never said he was required to act like anything. If you, my sister, or anyone else for that matter, told someone to 'get cancer,' I'd have the same thoughts.
Nick's stature as an artist holds little weight with me.
Yup. Same here. The way Nick was attacked, like it was a shock he would do that, is what was upsetting to me. Due to it sounding Counter Culturish with no context and just "Look what he said to me, he's bad". Ok, well, what did you say to him to make him reply that in a DM to you..."I don't want to say" :facepalm:
I also, saw who it was that did that and he has done some questionable actions like this in the past when I joined that page to know more about ProgPower. I left that group due to that, and also because the Official ProgPower finally accepted my invite.
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I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.
There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.
As someone who ran a record store for nearly a decade (and witnessed some pretty appauling behavior by way of entitled artists via meet&greets), I could not agree with this more. No excuse, man. I'll be honest, being on that side of things a few dozen times with some pretty big bands, the way they treated me, the guy who was grabbing their water and talking to their manager, made a huge impact on what I thought of them.
To that end, one band that sticks out in particular is none other than Disturbed. I am NOT a fan, at all, but David Drainman was beyond gracious and professional. This was well into their career, they were a HUGE band, but that dude acted like it was the first meet & greet he'd ever done, and it made all the difference with the fans. To this day, I give their new record a spin whenever it drops...respect-driven curiosity.
Yeah, again I never really thought of it in that light mate, and you are both right. I'll never do a meet and greet again because it was so disappointing.
I've seen a few interviews with Draiman. He does seem like a great guy.
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I went to an Alter Bridge meet and greet on the Last Hero tour and while they weren't really rude or anything, they did give off the 'couldn't be assed' vibe. Even when we went through and got stuff signed one by one, they were pretty dismissive I felt. Scott especially was quite blunt and hardly looked up and didn't even ackowledge us when signing. I was fine, because I couldn't imagine doing those night after night.
There's no excuse for someone to be an asshole in a meet n greet. These are the most loyal fans paying extra money for this service. It makes the actual concert a sham, honestly, if you can't bring yourself to acknowledge your biggest fans. It's not like they're accosting you at the store.
As someone who ran a record store for nearly a decade (and witnessed some pretty appauling behavior by way of entitled artists via meet&greets), I could not agree with this more. No excuse, man. I'll be honest, being on that side of things a few dozen times with some pretty big bands, the way they treated me, the guy who was grabbing their water and talking to their manager, made a huge impact on what I thought of them.
To that end, one band that sticks out in particular is none other than Disturbed. I am NOT a fan, at all, but David Drainman was beyond gracious and professional. This was well into their career, they were a HUGE band, but that dude acted like it was the first meet & greet he'd ever done, and it made all the difference with the fans. To this day, I give their new record a spin whenever it drops...respect-driven curiosity.
Yeah, again I never really thought of it in that light mate, and you are both right. I'll never do a meet and greet again because it was so disappointing.
I've seen a few interviews with Draiman. He does seem like a great guy.
I used to think Draiman was a dick, but he's really turned the corner and comes off as a very good dude. I actually like some of their music too. He says a lot of positive things at their shows, which is so drastically different than their lyrics from the first few albums.
But my personal experience meeting Derek Sherinian rubbed me the wrong way, so I can totally see how the direct personal interaction can turn people off.
Go talk to someone like Devin Townsend and it's light and day between the artist that truly appreciates the fan vs. the one who DGAF.
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I had both experiences... in the same gig!
I met Luca Turilli's Rhapsody and Primal Fear, 2-in-1 meet and greet. Luca Turilli was beaming from ear to ear the entire time and could not be happier to talk at length with fans. Ralf Scheepers on the other hand was grouchy as hell and grumpy when I got to him because I was more interested in talking to Luca, and he tried to justify it by saying, "we have to get ready for the show and stuff" - which wouldn't start for another 90 minutes. There were only about 15, 20 people at the meet and greet.
So I got my photo with LTR and left without a second thought about Primal Fear, and Ralf probably beat up the drywall in the back room with his buffalo neck sized arms. :lol
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Here's my understanding of what happened from reading the FB thread and talking to someone I trust.
There was an exchange on someone's FB page. (Not sure if Nick's or someone else). I don't know how it started, but in the screen print you can see Nick saying that he has a lot of non-white friends. Someone makes a pretty harmless comment to the effect of "are we still using the 'but I have x group friends!' argument?" Nick then messages that person telling him to get cancer.
I don't consider sharing that screen print to be sharing a private conversation. It wasn't a private conversation; it was public or at least semi public. Him then privately telling someone to get cancer isn't what I would consider some kind of protected private conversation. Usually I am completely against sharing private messages. But this was less of a private message and more of like a harassing message.
Now it's true that we don't have Nick's side of the story. Someone on Facebook made the point that maybe Nick was responding to a private message that said something like "I hope your kids die." And if he was responding to that, yeah, it's true that two wrongs don't make a right, but I could totally see something like that getting the better of someone and I could see that as "justification." But if that's what happened... I dunno. He apparently deactivated his Facebook right after this and then told someone else to smooth things over for him. Which just doesn't look great. It would be a lot simpler if he just admitted he let his anger get away from him and apologize.
That's it though. What was said to make Nick feel the need to reply, "I have a lot of Non-white friends." That's the information I want to know, and need to know to really understand why he said that. It escalated once that other person said "Oh here we go again..." that person did not have to post that either. Nick didn't have to post "Get Cancer" yet he did, and it's suddenly shocking he acted unwisely and said something I am sure he regrets now? Why is it shocking he did that?
I am concerned about this because It is something Rising Bands have to take into account now, and it's stressful. So, Nick did the right thing in getting off of Social Media, for his mentality and Health.
Man, I hear you, I do, but as far as I'm concerend, nothing makes that response ok. It's obviously not a crime, and the man is entitled to say whatever he wants (within reason), but as a public figure, this is a head-scratcher for me.
If someone is pissing you off, just ignore them. As far as I'm concerned, telling someone to 'get cancer' is repugnant, regardless of context. Kinda like hitting a woman...I don't care what your argument is, in my book, it's never ok. Ever.
But that's my point with "Public Figures" being required to act unlike Human Beings and like Saints. They are not Saints. They are human and are capable of bad things as we "common folk" are.
All this is because people hold "Public Figures" A.K.A Celebrities/Idols to a higher regard than a person on the street. That is the very definition of Idolizing a human to the point of Sainthood, and people do that a lot. Even to local "heroes"
Fair enough...and I agree with the sentiment of your post. I never said he was required to act like anything. If you, my sister, or anyone else for that matter, told someone to 'get cancer,' I'd have the same thoughts.
Nick's stature as an artist holds little weight with me.
Yup. Same here. The way Nick was attacked, like it was a shock he would do that, is what was upsetting to me. Due to it sounding Counter Culturish with no context and just "Look what he said to me, he's bad". Ok, well, what did you say to him to make him reply that in a DM to you..."I don't want to say" :facepalm:
No no no, it's not "I don't want to say." He did say. He posted the screen print of the Facebook thread, in which he said "People still use the "I'm not racist I have -ethnic group here- friends" argument?" That's all he said and then Nick PMed him with "get cancer."
Like I said, we don't know Nick's side, because he hasn't provided it. So is it possible that the guy actually PMed Nick something worse like "I hope you die" and that's why Nick sent him that PM? Sure it is but... why would he post a screen print of it when Nick could very easily prove him to be a liar?
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Disregarding the previous fiasco...
I finally found a Blu-Ray app on my laptop, that can play Alive In Color. So I am watching it, and I believe I found myself. Since I am short, you can only see me in the full stage shots. :lol I kept watching and looked at my picture again, and noticed, that is me. :hat I remember I took my hat off and clipped it to my belt loop, so I could headbang better. :metal
I did see face shots of Cram, and Mike, as well.
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Nice, what app do you use? I haven't tried in awhile but I feel like I was never able to get my blu ray drive to work in my pc
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Nice, what app do you use? I haven't tried in awhile but I feel like I was never able to get my blu ray drive to work in my pc
Cyberlink PowerDVD 20 (https://www.cyberlink.com/products/powerdvd-ultra/features_en_US.html)
After trying a few Microsoft Store Free apps, nothing worked. So I ended up looking up why it's not reading my blu-ray and giving me an error, and found out, I needed to do some stuff, so I did that, and it didn't work. And found another site saying to use this one, so I gave this a try and By Golly it worked, extremely well. Took long enough for me to find one, but then I wouldn't try until I would want to watch it.
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Thanks, ill check that out.
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Thanks, ill check that out.
Yeah. It's damn insane how it's required of you to do this now.
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Evergrey tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/EVERGREYSWEDEN/status/1395354916668035078 (https://twitter.com/EVERGREYSWEDEN/status/1395354916668035078)
What do you know?
The old hair grew back!
Right in time for the switch to a more Metal mode! #redemption #evergrey #newalbums #writing #singing #recording @evergreyofficial
@redemptionmetal
#boom!
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Evergrey tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/EVERGREYSWEDEN/status/1395354916668035078 (https://twitter.com/EVERGREYSWEDEN/status/1395354916668035078)
What do you know?
The old hair grew back!
Right in time for the switch to a more Metal mode! #redemption #evergrey #newalbums #writing #singing #recording @evergreyofficial
@redemptionmetal
#boom!
Nice! :metal
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New Redemption? Yeah baby :metal
Maybe the new album will be titled, "Get Cancer" :P
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:lol
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With the announcement of Evergrey's upcoming album A Heartless Portrait, I'm starting to wonder why Evergrey will have released three studio albums since the last one from Redemption. Plus, Silent Skies (which features two members of Redemption) has released two albums. Come on, Redemption!
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Maybe Blizzard has a more hectic schedule than Disney.
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With the announcement of Evergrey's upcoming album A Heartless Portrait, I'm starting to wonder why Evergrey will have released three studio albums since the last one from Redemption. Plus, Silent Skies (which features two members of Redemption) has released two albums. Come on, Redemption!
Maybe Redemption can't release something because Tom has released three Evergrey albums plus Silent Skies.
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I’m guessing it has more to do with Nicks schedule as Redemption isn’t exactly his primary job.
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Maybe they're trying to compete with Symphony X on who can take the longest between albums. :)
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Maybe they're trying to compete with Symphony X on who can take the longest between albums. :)
Symphony X has always baffled me in terms of what those guys do full time to make a living. Yeah, they do the odd solo project every now and then. But those pay peanuts and are too few and far in between. How on earth do they earn a living when they so infrequently release albums, and don't appear to tour very often either? With Redemption, we know Nick has a full time "normal" job, and that the band is more or less a hobby, so that's different.
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I’m guessing it has more to do with Nicks schedule as Redemption isn’t exactly his primary job.
Likely this I'd guess.
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:metal
"I Am The Storm" - new single coming this Friday, December 9th. Pre-save on your choice streaming platform: https://bfan.link/i-am-the-storm
:metal
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Sweet!
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I don't know. I just don't like Tom's voice. I bought the last album already knowing I was not a fan of his and I maybe listed to it once. I also have 1 total Evergrey album. Same reason, his vocals just don't click with me. They need Ray back.
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I had heard a few Evergrey songs before he started singing for Redemption, and I felt the same way. But I thought his voice fit great on the last album, and it's right up there with Snowfall for me as my favorite album from them.
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:metal
"I Am The Storm" - new single coming this Friday, December 9th. Pre-save on your choice streaming platform: https://bfan.link/i-am-the-storm
:metal
Great news. LOVE Redemption!
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It is so sad to have Ray out of redemption. Fuck Jim as he is the reason for Ray not being with Redemption anymore.
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Fuck Jim as he is the reason for Ray not being with Redemption anymore.
???
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I've never been the biggest fan of Ray, yeah he's a good singer, but I didn't think his work in Redemption was anything special. Felt like Tom easily replaced him. I feel like I haven't been too into Redemption lately though. If they come on my random shuffle of music, I almost always skip it these days. I don't know, I enjoyed the last album and their performance at ProgPower, but I'm just not too invested in the band these days.
Fuck Jim as he is the reason for Ray not being with Redemption anymore.
???
also ???
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Fuck Jim as he is the reason for Ray not being with Redemption anymore.
???
Ray had to choose Redemption or Fates but not both.
And now we don’t have any of those as FW is on indefinite hiatus.
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That doesnt make any sense because like you said, both aren't very active bands. Does Tom have to choose between Redemption and Evergrey (who's been very active). It sure seems like he doesnt.
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It is so sad to have Ray out of redemption.
agree
:tup
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It wasn't Jim's fault that Ray left Redemption. Nick said it very openly in interviews that he wanted a change of direction. There is no bad blood between Ray and Nick as both have performed together in ProgPower with Tom as well.
I personally didn't like much Redemption with Tom's voice. He sounded very uninspired with his singing in Redemption. I'm a big Evergrey fan so I noticed the difference. Hopefully he will sound more into it, than his debut with Redemption.
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I personally didn't like much Redemption with Tom's voice. He sounded very uninspired with his singing in Redemption. I'm a big Evergrey fan so I noticed the difference. Hopefully he will sound more into it, than his debut with Redemption.
Tom admitted that he specifically chose to sing differently in Redemption than he does in Evergrey, in order to differentiate the two bands for himself. To those used to his style in Evergrey, it may come across as being uninspired, but I don't feel that's an accurate description.
Looking forward to hearing new tunes!
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I've never been the biggest fan of Ray, yeah he's a good singer, but I didn't think his work in Redemption was anything special.
Interesting that you say that. I wasn't a fan of Ray's earlier work. His voice was too shrill and thin. That's a big reason I don't like the pre-X FW albums, even the ones their most popular fan favorites. And during the time he first joined Redemption, his voice was deteriorating and he wasn't yet really doing anything about it. I saw them when they opened for DT on the SC tour, and didn't think they were anything special at all. And I thought Ray just sounded bad. His voice sounded burned out and frequently off key. That changed. During the time period of the later Redemptions albums (Snowfall onward) and FW albums and tours, he really started to (1) rehab his voice (2) become comfortable with his new range and (3) sing with passion. I feel like he lost some of that on The Art of Loss, which sounded uninspired to me in the vocal department. But that anomaly aside, Ray's work on the backend of his time in Redemption and his time in FW from then until now got him on my top 25 list in the vocalist thread and has had just about every album released by either band during that time period in contention (top 3 or 4) for album of the year.
It wasn't Jim's fault that Ray left Redemption. Nick said it very openly in interviews that he wanted a change of direction. There is no bad blood between Ray and Nick as both have performed together in ProgPower with Tom as well.
Exactly. And I seem to recall Ray saying in an interview that his decision to live in Spain was actually the biggest factor in him scaling back his involvement in a lot of things, which included Redemption.
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I only knew of Tom's voice from Ayreon. When I heard Ray was leaving Redemption, I was a bit livid because hearing Ray sing Redemption songs was one of my main reasons for attending that ProgPower as well. I was one who wasn't into Tom's vocals in Redemption at first. But seeing them live with him, Tom did an excellent job and I actually like how he sung Damaged.
Since I never knew of Evergrey, I have been listening to them more now, The Storm Within is one emotional album and The Storm Within (song) is one of the most beautiful songs I have heard. I love that key, and the vibe the song has.
Now, because I got into Everygrey more, I think Tom is an excellent choice for Redemption. I just hope that Tom won't be afraid to just go all out with his emotional voice because Redemption songs desire that type of emotional voice. I can still hear that emotion in Tom's vocals on Long Night's Journey Into Day, specifically on Someone Else's Problem and Indulge In Color.
Fuck Jim as he is the reason for Ray not being with Redemption anymore.
???
Ray had to choose Redemption or Fates but not both.
And now we don’t have any of those as FW is on indefinite hiatus.
Yet, we got a solo album from Ray and I really enjoy some of those songs, like Wait and The Road. Those two are amongst his best works.
It was also awesome to hear him sing Walls, with permission from Nick. And he didn't perform any Fates Warning songs either at ProgPower because he stated it just wouldn't be fair to the other guys, so this is why he wasn't going to sing Fates Warning songs, which I would've enjoyed since I could hear him doing Wish, at least. Wish is one song where his vocals shine, as the vocals are what carry the song.
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I've never been the biggest fan of Ray, yeah he's a good singer, but I didn't think his work in Redemption was anything special.
Interesting that you say that. I wasn't a fan of Ray's earlier work. His voice was too shrill and thin. That's a big reason I don't like the pre-X FW albums, even the ones their most popular fan favorites. And during the time he first joined Redemption, his voice was deteriorating and he wasn't yet really doing anything about it. I saw them when they opened for DT on the SC tour, and didn't think they were anything special at all. And I thought Ray just sounded bad. His voice sounded burned out and frequently off key. That changed. During the time period of the later Redemptions albums (Snowfall onward) and FW albums and tours, he really started to (1) rehab his voice (2) become comfortable with his new range and (3) sing with passion. I feel like he lost some of that on The Art of Loss, which sounded uninspired to me in the vocal department. But that anomaly aside, Ray's work on the backend of his time in Redemption and his time in FW from then until now got him on my top 25 list in the vocalist thread and has had just about every album released by either band during that time period in contention (top 3 or 4) for album of the year.
It wasn't Jim's fault that Ray left Redemption. Nick said it very openly in interviews that he wanted a change of direction. There is no bad blood between Ray and Nick as both have performed together in ProgPower with Tom as well.
Exactly. And I seem to recall Ray saying in an interview that his decision to live in Spain was actually the biggest factor in him scaling back his involvement in a lot of things, which included Redemption.
Also, one thing to add is that the lyrics in Redemption, which is Nick's writing style, are not very melodic. You really don't see the words rhyming with other words in the following verses, they sound more like "reading lyrics" or a "poem" with very little rhyme in it. Tom's performance sounded a bit less emotional even through Nick's lyrics are very emotional. When you hear Tom sing in Evergrey, you can feel the emotion a lot.
Bosk, I have the same sentiments towards Ray's voice. One of the reasons I absolutely ADORE the three last FW albums and Ray's solo stuff including A-Z, is his current state of his voice. Just on the sweet spot. And Ray's lyrics are very melodic and just hit me right on the spot.
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I've never been the biggest fan of Ray, yeah he's a good singer, but I didn't think his work in Redemption was anything special.
Interesting that you say that. I wasn't a fan of Ray's earlier work. His voice was too shrill and thin. That's a big reason I don't like the pre-X FW albums, even the ones their most popular fan favorites. And during the time he first joined Redemption, his voice was deteriorating and he wasn't yet really doing anything about it. I saw them when they opened for DT on the SC tour, and didn't think they were anything special at all. And I thought Ray just sounded bad. His voice sounded burned out and frequently off key. That changed. During the time period of the later Redemptions albums (Snowfall onward) and FW albums and tours, he really started to (1) rehab his voice (2) become comfortable with his new range and (3) sing with passion. I feel like he lost some of that on The Art of Loss, which sounded uninspired to me in the vocal department. But that anomaly aside, Ray's work on the backend of his time in Redemption and his time in FW from then until now got him on my top 25 list in the vocalist thread and has had just about every album released by either band during that time period in contention (top 3 or 4) for album of the year.
It wasn't Jim's fault that Ray left Redemption. Nick said it very openly in interviews that he wanted a change of direction. There is no bad blood between Ray and Nick as both have performed together in ProgPower with Tom as well.
Exactly. And I seem to recall Ray saying in an interview that his decision to live in Spain was actually the biggest factor in him scaling back his involvement in a lot of things, which included Redemption.
Also, one thing to add is that the lyrics in Redemption, which is Nick's writing style, are not very melodic. You really don't see the words rhyming with other words in the following verses, they sound more like "reading lyrics" or a "poem" with very little rhyme in it. Tom's performance sounded a bit less emotional even through Nick's lyrics are very emotional. When you hear Tom sing in Evergrey, you can feel the emotion a lot.
Bosk, I have the same sentiments towards Ray's voice. One of the reasons I absolutely ADORE the three last FW albums and Ray's solo stuff including A-Z, is his current state of his voice. Just on the sweet spot. And Ray's lyrics are very melodic and just hit me right on the spot.
The bolded may actually be a big reason I've struggled to care much for Ray in Redemption. A lot of it feels like "reading lyrics" to me. Also, Ray has shown to me that he's a good singer through his solo album. I don't mean any of my comments to think Ray is not a good singer, it's just something with his style in Redemption that didn't make me think he was "special" and I felt and still do, that he could and was easily replaced.
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The snippet of new song sounds sick. Oh, baby.
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That doesnt make any sense because like you said, both aren't very active bands. Does Tom have to choose between Redemption and Evergrey (who's been very active). It sure seems like he doesnt.
It doesn’t have to make sense, but it is 100% true.
Sadly I can’t tell more as it was disclosed as an off the record during an interview
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No, it's 100% not true.
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I know it is. And a) I won’t disclose the rest of what was said and b) I won’t force anyone to believe what I said.
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I know it is. And a) I won’t disclose the rest of what was said and b) I won’t force anyone to believe what I said.
Not to sound like a douche (lol) but why mention it in the first place. You could have chosen not to even mention it at all. That was something discussed in private.
Tom WILL choose Evergrey over Redemption. Ray would have chosen Fates over Redemption. Redemption is not a full time band like Evergrey or FW was (or still is). Evergrey and FW pay the bills for Tom and Ray; not Redemption. Even Nick has said this. He doesn't expect to Ray (at his time with Redemption) and Tom to give up their bands.
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I had heard a few Evergrey songs before he started singing for Redemption, and I felt the same way. But I thought his voice fit great on the last album, and it's right up there with Snowfall for me as my favorite album from them.
Agreed mate.
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I know it is. And a) I won’t disclose the rest of what was said and b) I won’t force anyone to believe what I said.
Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.' You've already put it out there. Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.
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I had heard a few Evergrey songs before he started singing for Redemption, and I felt the same way. But I thought his voice fit great on the last album, and it's right up there with Snowfall for me as my favorite album from them.
Agreed mate.
I keep flipping between Snowfall and Origins of Ruin. I can listen to those two albums all day, every day.
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I had heard a few Evergrey songs before he started singing for Redemption, and I felt the same way. But I thought his voice fit great on the last album, and it's right up there with Snowfall for me as my favorite album from them.
Agreed mate.
I keep flipping between Snowfall and Origins of Ruin. I can listen to those two albums all day, every day.
Origins is just a smidge under the other two, but can understand why it would be a fav.
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Fuck Jim as he is the reason for Ray not being with Redemption anymore.
???
Ray had to choose Redemption or Fates but not both.
And now we don’t have any of those as FW is on indefinite hiatus.
But Ray can do solo albums and A-Z?
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Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.' You've already put it out there. Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.
Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
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Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.' You've already put it out there. Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.
Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
I stopped doing interviews/reviews etc.
The website hasn’t been updated in almost 2 years.
If the admins want to delete the comments so be it.
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DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.
And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.
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DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.
And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.
That's totally true but not the reason why we are ragging on him here.
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DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.
And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.
No way for Nick to confirm it, as it was Jim who gave the ultimatum to Ray to choose between one of the two bands.
Edit: I can't imagine Ray's face when couple of years later Jim decided to do Arch / Matheos album.
Edit 2: And the only reason I threw it out there is simple, there's a new redemption single coming out, I miss Ray, and I hate Tom's voice. But I hate Jim more, lol
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Seems like an odd thing for Jim to do, you know, with Fates Warning being so fucking busy and all.
Apparently, he has no issue with Joey Vera playing with Armored Saint and King Diamond, or Bobby J playing in a country band.
Why put the screws to Ray?
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DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
I actually believe what Ministro says. There's no reason for him to throw that out there.
And even if it's true, no doubt Nick will never confirm it.
No way for Nick to confirm it, as it was Jim who gave the ultimatum to Ray to choose between one of the two bands.
Edit: I can't imagine Ray's face when couple of years later Jim decided to do Arch / Matheos album.
Edit 2: And the only reason I threw it out there is simple, there's a new redemption single coming out, I miss Ray, and I hate Tom's voice. But I hate Jim more, lol
Jim consulted Ray first on the Arch/Matheos music. Ray didn't like the music for turning into a Fates Warning album. Jim approached John and talked to Ray if it was Ok to do Arch/Matheos and Ray said it was ok. This was heavily documented in a lot of interviews with both Ray and Jim.
I still don't buy the ultimatum from Jim to Ray, both Ray and Jim have worked in other projects/albums in between Fates and haven't interfered with Fates' touring plans.
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I think it's entirely possible that someone told him that Jim gave Ray an ultimatum. (Whether it's completely accurate or not is another story). But it's not appropriate to throw out here as if it's a fact that that's how it is. Either don't say anything at all, which is probably best, or tell the whole story.
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Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.' You've already put it out there. Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.
Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
I stopped doing interviews/reviews etc.
The website hasn’t been updated in almost 2 years.
If the admins want to delete the comments so be it.
What website? For some reason I assumed you were associated with the sonic perspective people who seem to be on the forum.
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Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said.
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Mate, not saying you are lying but anyone can say literally anything they want but then go, 'I can't disclose it as it was an off the record conversation.' You've already put it out there. Probably shouldn't have said anything at all, especially if it's true that it was something discussed in private.
Yeah, I don't want to pile on, but as a friendly piece of advice, I'd really recommend deleting the posts that refer to off-the-record comments and avoiding even oblique references to them in the future. If I were in the industry and I saw an interviewer hinting on other websites about things they've been told off the record, I would not be inclined to grant them an interview in the future. DTF might feel like our own private world, but we know that at least one member of Redemption reads this thread from time to time.
I stopped doing interviews/reviews etc.
The website hasn’t been updated in almost 2 years.
If the admins want to delete the comments so be it.
What website? For some reason I assumed you were associated with the sonic perspective people who seem to be on the forum.
MY OWN.
I am not longer associated with SP either, and haven’t been from at least 2 years
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Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said.
:tup
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Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said.
You mean go with the three credible sources over a journo throwing out a random half story on a prog metal forum? Surely not!?
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Well, since Jim, Ray, and Nick have all publicly said something very different from this mystery story we are hearing now, I have to go with what the three guys who actually know what happened have said.
Since when do public statements actually tell the truth about what the real dealings are? I mean, it's possible they do, but you know as well as I do that it's not always the case.
Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, and while I like to bust his balls for his "Press Statement" style posts, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.
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Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.
:tup
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Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, and while I like to bust his balls for his "Press Statement" style posts, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.
I don't. Yeah, public statements are not always accurate. But the statements from the ONLY people in the know, who would be on opposite sides of any such ultimatum and thus not necessarily expected to agree on the details if there was an ultimatum, DO in fact agree. The ONLY thing we have to the contrary is...something unsubstantiated by some unknown source that said something unknown. Not only do I not believe that, but I also discredit the source as irresponsibly throwing around some pretty irresponsible accusations. Or at least they might be irresponsible if there was any detail. There isn't.
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I wouldn't consider it a bashing... skepticism is warranted.
And I don't think anyone really thinks he's lying.
But Ministro - I do think it's very very bad form what went down here. You didn't just say "I heard that..." You said "F Jim, he is the reason Ray isn't in Redemption." That's just not cool. If you're going to say that, then back it up. "X told me A, B, and C when I interviewed him on this date..." And even then it's still not really cool because it was off the record, but it would still be better than saying Ray had to choose, it's all Jim's fault, but you can't say more because it was off the record. Um? Then don't say anything at all and truly honor it being "off the record."
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Minstro has been a respected long term member of the forum, and while I like to bust his balls for his "Press Statement" style posts, I think the bashing he is getting is a bit much.
I don't. Yeah, public statements are not always accurate. But the statements from the ONLY people in the know, who would be on opposite sides of any such ultimatum and thus not necessarily expected to agree on the details if there was an ultimatum, DO in fact agree. The ONLY thing we have to the contrary is...something unsubstantiated by some unknown source that said something unknown. Not only do I not believe that, but I also discredit the source as irresponsibly throwing around some pretty irresponsible accusations. Or at least they might be irresponsible if there was any detail. There isn't.
Bosk, been going back and forth with this because I don't mean this disrespectfully. But we're adults just talking... I'm not saying that you don't personally believe this. You likely do. But I feel like being the admin here, developing some of the relationships you have, kind of backs you into taking the above position...publicly.
Ministro is just trying to contribute, and I wouldn't expect him to reveal a source or to betray a confidence. He's never posted here just to kick up needless dust that I can remember.
I remember a few years ago when I said I knew Mike Mangini's brother in law. I think it was Rumborak that called bullshit on me. I've been a member since 2004, and I was pissed as hell about my word being called into question. I certainly wasn't going to name the guy publicly.
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Yeah, you guys are right, I probably should have kept it to myself as it was “off the record.”
But, I have the whole recording and I stand by my words.
Call it skepticism, bashing, call it what you want, but I know what *I* heard.
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Yeah, you guys are right, I probably should have kept it to myself as it was “off the record.”
But, I have the whole recording and I stand by my words.
Call it skepticism, bashing, call it what you want, but I know what *I* heard.
I'm glad you seem to be taking this in stride. I wouldn't blame you for a lapse in judgement with all you have been through these last couple of years. Uprooting your family, having your money be stuck in another country, struggling to get your papers so you can actually move to the country you intend to, your Dad's health. You're allowed a slip here and there. You're a good member and I'd hate to lose you over something like this.
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...and I'd hate to lose you over something like this.
I'm not even sure why that would be an issue. I would hope it wouldn't be. He knows I think very highly of him as a person, and I think most of us do and value his presence here. But I still feel the way I do and feel that what he said is out of bounds. I wouldn't be a good forum admin if I didn't call that out as admin, and I wouldn't be a good friend if I didn't call that out as a friend.
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Yeah, you guys are right, I probably should have kept it to myself as it was “off the record.”
But, I have the whole recording and I stand by my words.
Call it skepticism, bashing, call it what you want, but I know what *I* heard.
I respect you taking it on the chin too mate. I believe you wouldn't post that if it were a lie but with nothing to go off.......it's a hard one and some are gonna call bullshit.
You are a great member so nothing personal from me also.
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I'm certain that Ministro is telling his truth. Whether or not his interviewee was...that's the X factor unknown.
As for Redemption w/o Ray, I tried hard but the vocals just don't do it for me. Music is great though.
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Guys I want to apologize for bringing the information the way I did yesterday. Certainly this wasn’t the place to bring that up. And now I understand I should have kept that secret as I was asked to.
As someone said if I am not giving all the information and backing it up with proof other than my word it should have remain untold.
As I certainly won’t shared all what was said during the interview with this person before the show in Lima, I would like if possible that any admin/mods to delete the messages.
Again, I am sorry for causing this trouble in the forum.
I appreciate the words of concern towards me. This is such a special place and you guys mean a lot to me. Please accept my apologies.
Best,
JP
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Guys I want to apologize for bringing the information the way I did yesterday. Certainly this wasn’t the place to bring that up. And now I understand I should have kept that secret as I was asked to.
As someone said if I am not giving all the information and backing it up with proof other than my word it should have remain untold.
As I certainly won’t shared all what was said during the interview with this person before the show in Lima, I would like if possible that any admin/mods to delete the messages.
Again, I am sorry for causing this trouble in the forum.
I appreciate the words of concern towards me. This is such a special place and you guys mean a lot to me. Please accept my apologies.
Best,
JP
This post is the very definition of 'class.'
As others have already stated, you are valued here...I value you and your insight.
An apology certainly wasn't 'necessary,' but owning your misstep is a huge mark of character in my book.
Hope everything with your dad is on an upswing.
James
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I hadn't heard any Redemption until this week when Spotify recommended "Black and White World" to me. I quite like the song and am now looking to hear some more. Where's a good place to start?
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Where's a good place to start?
Snowfall on Judgment Day
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Where's a good place to start?
Snowfall on Judgment Day
:hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Since when do public statements actually tell the truth about what the real dealings are? I mean, it's possible they do, but you know as well as I do that it's not always the case.
Yeah I feel this way. I don't really follow this closely to have any idea on who is right or wrong, but I'd like to pose the thought that it's possible no one is wrong here. Being a dispute, there's going to be different sides to the story. As with many things, the truth is likely in the middle.
Also, +1 on Ministro for taking some flak like a man.
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Where's a good place to start?
Snowfall on Judgment Day
+1
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Where's a good place to start?
Snowfall on Judgment Day
This is the way.
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Any of the Ray albums are great. My personal fave is This Mortal Coil.
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The Fullness of Time
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Where's a good place to start?
Snowfall on Judgment Day
+1
+2
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Where's a good place to start?
Snowfall on Judgment Day
+1
+2
+3
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Any of the Ray albums are great. My personal fave is This Mortal Coil.
Also it's clearly my fave! Although I'm not a big fan of Tom Englund's vocals, I think Long Night's Journey into Day is truly amazing. If Ray sang on it, I think it could be my fave album by them.
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This Mortal Coil is amazing. But it is one of the few albums where the loudness factor exhausts me and makes it hard to listen to. I think the loudness combined with the unrelenting metal on that one exacerbates the issue. But it's a fantastic album.
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This Mortal Coil is amazing. But it is one of the few albums where the loudness factor exhausts me and makes it hard to listen to. I think the loudness combined with the unrelenting metal on that one exacerbates the issue. But it's a fantastic album.
Same with me with This Mortal Coil. I believe even Nick chimed in here or maybe when he posted at either the Ultimate Metal forums or Redemption's FB page. Anyways, apparently that was the sound he was aiming for and he doesn't think it's loud. I personally disagree because I can't listen to the album in one sitting. It's one of those albums that it rocks so hard that you need the loud volume to get pumped but then after a few songs, it's exhausting.
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There are few albums where the loudness issue stands out to me enough to make it hard to listen, but this is one of them.
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No Tickets to The Funeral is such a fucking badass song!!
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Even though This Mortal Coil is probably the heaviest, I feel like it's the most emotional lyricwise.
On one of our trips, I listened to it while driving across Wyoming, and it just blended naturally with the countryside. I mean, anything would blend with that scenery, but I really had a magical listen that I'll never forget. The lyrics just hit me hard.
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I know the debut album doesn't get a lot of love but I still regard it as one of their strongest. I love the guy's vocals on it (Ray on that particular one, not so much).
I was hoping to see Something Wicked performed live. That song in particular would have sounded great with both Ray and Tom singing. Desperation is another great one. Rick is like Redemption's John Arch :D
A little overlooked part in the band I feel is the sweet drumming in the debut by Jason Rullo.
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The new track smokes.
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Where's a good place to start?
Snowfall on Judgment Day
+1
+2
+3
Thanks, all. It has the one song I know I like, and looks like it has guest vocals from JLB on one song, so sounds like a winner all around. I'll check it out.
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The new track smokes.
:tup :hefdaddy :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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The new track smokes.
Hmm. I'm not a huge fan yet, but I've only listened to it twice. I'll dig in more this weekend.
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The new song slays! And I love the "Breaking Bad" audio clip halfway through. "I am the one who knocks!" Heisenberg!
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Our lead single “I Am The Storm” is OUT NOW. Pre-order the new album, “I Am The Storm,” out March 2023 on AFM Records. https://shop.afm-records.de/redemption/
Stream the full lyric video for “I Am The Storm”: https://youtu.be/AWrXVDeLv1A
“The life of a human being is many things, among them an ongoing stream of challenges and opportunities. We choose to face them with enthusiasm or indifference, with resistance or resignation. Sometimes we pick our battles, knowing when to push and when to acquiesce. But the important thing is that each human being is an individual infused with dignity and the ability to be an author of their story. This song is about perseverance, and daring to spit in the face of the odds.”
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Wow, the new song smokes for sure. The vocals unfortunately kill it for me. So depressing. The change of singers practically takes new Redemption material virtually of the table for me.
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I know the debut album doesn't get a lot of love but I still regard it as one of their strongest. I love the guy's vocals on it (Ray on that particular one, not so much).
I was hoping to see Something Wicked performed live. That song in particular would have sounded great with both Ray and Tom singing. Desperation is another great one. Rick is like Redemption's John Arch :D
A little overlooked part in the band I feel is the sweet drumming in the debut by Jason Rullo.
I also like the debut, Something Wicked is especially awesome.
I seem to be quite unusual with my rankings though, as my 2 favourites are probably The Art of Loss and The Fullness of Time.
I'll check out the new track later :tup
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Hmmm.....that song was okay, but didn't blow me away.
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Wow, the new song smokes for sure. The vocals unfortunately kill it for me. So depressing. The change of singers practically takes new Redemption material virtually of the table for me.
Ditto
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I don't think the mix here is doing Tom any favours to be honest.
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I don't think the mix here is doing Tom any favours to be honest.
Neither does his voice. ;D
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It took me some time to get used to Tom's voice in Evergrey. I think he was a little too overdramatic on the early albums, but anything from Hymns onward is great. I didn't care much for the new album though. I think he sounds a little too laid-back with Redemption, maybe even uninspired, but Long Nights is still pretty solid.
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I don't think the mix here is doing Tom any favours to be honest.
Neither does his voice. ;D
I walked into that one, didn't I....
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I don't think the mix here is doing Tom any favours to be honest.
Neither does his voice. ;D
I walked into that one, didn't I....
;D :lol
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I don't think the mix here is doing Tom any favours to be honest.
Neither does his voice. ;D
I walked into that one, didn't I....
;D :lol
I could have worded that just a bit different to avoid that but no........... :facepalm: :lol
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I don't think I saw it posted here yet... but found traclisting:
"I Am The Storm"-Tracklist:
01. I Am The Storm
02. Seven Minutes From Sunset
03. Remember The Dawn
04. The Emotional Depiction Of Light
05. Resilience
06. Action At A Distance
07. Turn It On Again (Genesis cover)
08. All This Time (And Not Enough)
09. The Emotional Depiction Of Light (Remix)
10. Red Rain (Peter Gabriel cover)
Vinyl-Bonustracks:
The Pearl Clutchers (feat. Chris)
The Far Side Of The Clouds (feat. Henrik Danhage)
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/redemption-announces-new-album-i-am-the-storm/
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I'm looking forward to hearing the album, along with the cover of Red Rain. Queensryche's cover of that song was really good, so it will be fun to hear what Tom can do with it.
Also:
The Pearl Clutchers (feat. Chris)
::) Having followed the online presence of a band member over the years on a different forum as well as a little bit of social media meltdown, the title of this song just deserves a giant eye-roll. At least they were smart enough to leave it as a bonus track.
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One thing I'll say is that, while I have always thought it a bit silly to get excited when things that have nothing to do with the content of the music are revealed, like album name, song titles, song lengths, etc., Nick has a real knack for creative and thought-provoking song names that gets me more excited than normal.
::) Having followed the online presence of a band member over the years on a different forum as well as a little bit of social media meltdown, the title of this song just deserves a giant eye-roll. At least they were smart enough to leave it as a bonus track.
Interesting. I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds intriguing. Details? (or at least a link to where to find them?)
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Vinyl only bonus tracks are annoying.
I wasn't all that into I Am the Storm, but maybe that will change with more listens when the album comes out.
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::) Having followed the online presence of a band member over the years on a different forum as well as a little bit of social media meltdown, the title of this song just deserves a giant eye-roll. At least they were smart enough to leave it as a bonus track.
Interesting. I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds intriguing. Details? (or at least a link to where to find them?)
Sending you a PM
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::) Having followed the online presence of a band member over the years on a different forum as well as a little bit of social media meltdown, the title of this song just deserves a giant eye-roll. At least they were smart enough to leave it as a bonus track.
Interesting. I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds intriguing. Details? (or at least a link to where to find them?)
Sending you a PM
Nah, just post for everyone haha.
I'm guessing that's supposed to be Chris Poland too.
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I just noticed that Nick had a lengthy response to a fan on YouTube who said that "Redemption died when Alder left." Just thought I'd share it here...
Ray's voice is certainly iconic and he's an amazing vocalist. When he could no longer devote time to Redemption and I had to replace him (a very difficult task as you can imagine) Tom was the only person that I felt was up to the task -- supremely talented, able to convey the emotion of our lyrics, and a great guy who would be a good fit. The challenge there is that Tom, of course, is also an iconic voice. You have to understand that Redemption ran the risk of sounding like Fates Warning (with some musical differences) just as we run the risk of sounding like Evergrey (again, with some musical differences).
Tom and I discussed that point very specifically, and so we have taken steps to differentiate ourselves. Tom doesn't play guitar in Redemption. Tom doesn't write music for Redemption. Tom interprets the vocal lines but they are fundamentally written by me, as they were when Ray was our vocalist. Our compositional process hasn't changed much other than Sean and Chris and I have worked together for an increasing period of time, and Vikram was able to contribute quite a bit for this record. But he, of course, doesn't write for Evergrey either so I don't think his participation in the song-writing should make us sound more like them.
In any event, we're lucky to have Tom, as we were lucky to have Ray. We've made music that I'm quite proud of with both.
I think of Redemption as having a number of different flavors of songs and this has been consistent over the years. We have always had longer, prog "epics" if you will. We have also had traditional melodic metal with a progressive twist. And -- owing both to my growing up on Bay Area thrash and also not wanting to be dismissed for being "wimpy prog guys" we have always had an aggressive side that combines really heavy music with strong melody. Not many bands do this. Comparisons to them (as have been made in this thread) are inevitable, though. If I can write music that sounds like Evergrey or Nevermore, I consider that a damn good song. They don't all sound like that.
We have three other songs planned as releases prior to the album itself coming out. One is melodic metal with a prog edge, one is a prog epic, and one is something a bit different for us where Vikram brought us something really special that I don't want to spoil with a description right now. I don't think you'll mistake any of these for Evergrey, or Nevermore. To me, we sound like us, and always have. And part of that is that our vocalist sounds like Evergrey's, in the same way that Heaven & Hell's vocalist sounded like DIo's. And in the same way that our previous vocalist sounded like Fates Warning's.
I hope you and others find something to enjoy from what we do, and in any event, thank you for listening and commenting.
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Interesting, and I feel for him. That said - to me Redemption never really sounded like Fates Warning at all, but Ray absolutely sounded like Ray.
I think Tom could sound like Tom and no one, or almost no one, would confuse Redemption for Evergrey. It would only sound better, but Tom sounding like himself is pretty awesome.
I'm not saying that Nick's not being truthful in that post, but I wonder if he actually knew about Tom singing differently before he delivered the vocals for the last album. In the ProgPower interview, he mentioned Tom working on them on his own and he was a little nervous because he wasn't hearing anything and it was taking a while. (Total paraphrase and I can get the actual interview early January just to make sure). Maybe Tom did this on his and Nick kind of had to live with it, and they had those lengthy conversations after the fact. Or maybe not - that's complete speculation on my part.
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They never sounded like Fates Warning to me. Just as Nick describes they have that agressive side that FW doesn't have.
I'm sure they will never sound like Evergrey as Redemption is more technical and progressive while Evergrey leans more to the melodic side with the way they use synths.
The thing that bothered me with the last album is Tom trying to not sound like Tom. I really hope he sounds more comfortable at the new album.
I love Tom and I love Redemption and really hope the combination works for me this time.
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I always thought that Redemption sounds like if Megadeth went full on Progressive Metal. If I were to give them a label, it would be Progressive Thrash Metal.
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I just noticed that Nick had a lengthy response to a fan on YouTube who said that "Redemption died when Alder left." Just thought I'd share it here...
Ray's voice is certainly iconic and he's an amazing vocalist. When he could no longer devote time to Redemption and I had to replace him (a very difficult task as you can imagine) Tom was the only person that I felt was up to the task -- supremely talented, able to convey the emotion of our lyrics, and a great guy who would be a good fit. The challenge there is that Tom, of course, is also an iconic voice. You have to understand that Redemption ran the risk of sounding like Fates Warning (with some musical differences) just as we run the risk of sounding like Evergrey (again, with some musical differences).
Tom and I discussed that point very specifically, and so we have taken steps to differentiate ourselves. Tom doesn't play guitar in Redemption. Tom doesn't write music for Redemption. Tom interprets the vocal lines but they are fundamentally written by me, as they were when Ray was our vocalist. Our compositional process hasn't changed much other than Sean and Chris and I have worked together for an increasing period of time, and Vikram was able to contribute quite a bit for this record. But he, of course, doesn't write for Evergrey either so I don't think his participation in the song-writing should make us sound more like them.
In any event, we're lucky to have Tom, as we were lucky to have Ray. We've made music that I'm quite proud of with both.
I think of Redemption as having a number of different flavors of songs and this has been consistent over the years. We have always had longer, prog "epics" if you will. We have also had traditional melodic metal with a progressive twist. And -- owing both to my growing up on Bay Area thrash and also not wanting to be dismissed for being "wimpy prog guys" we have always had an aggressive side that combines really heavy music with strong melody. Not many bands do this. Comparisons to them (as have been made in this thread) are inevitable, though. If I can write music that sounds like Evergrey or Nevermore, I consider that a damn good song. They don't all sound like that.
We have three other songs planned as releases prior to the album itself coming out. One is melodic metal with a prog edge, one is a prog epic, and one is something a bit different for us where Vikram brought us something really special that I don't want to spoil with a description right now. I don't think you'll mistake any of these for Evergrey, or Nevermore. To me, we sound like us, and always have. And part of that is that our vocalist sounds like Evergrey's, in the same way that Heaven & Hell's vocalist sounded like DIo's. And in the same way that our previous vocalist sounded like Fates Warning's.
I hope you and others find something to enjoy from what we do, and in any event, thank you for listening and commenting.
I think those are all great and fair points in a respectful post. While I kind of wish Tom would be more Evergrey Tom because I think that's really what he is good at, I totally get the reasoning. I also think he sings similar to Ray did in Redemption so it all makes sense to me. And I don't think this is odd within the industry either. There's plenty of examples where new singers come in and try to keep a style within that band and not do what they've necessarily have done in their other band/s.
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I just noticed that Nick had a lengthy response to a fan on YouTube who said that "Redemption died when Alder left." Just thought I'd share it here...
Ray's voice is certainly iconic and he's an amazing vocalist. When he could no longer devote time to Redemption and I had to replace him (a very difficult task as you can imagine) Tom was the only person that I felt was up to the task -- supremely talented, able to convey the emotion of our lyrics, and a great guy who would be a good fit. The challenge there is that Tom, of course, is also an iconic voice. You have to understand that Redemption ran the risk of sounding like Fates Warning (with some musical differences) just as we run the risk of sounding like Evergrey (again, with some musical differences).
Tom and I discussed that point very specifically, and so we have taken steps to differentiate ourselves. Tom doesn't play guitar in Redemption. Tom doesn't write music for Redemption. Tom interprets the vocal lines but they are fundamentally written by me, as they were when Ray was our vocalist. Our compositional process hasn't changed much other than Sean and Chris and I have worked together for an increasing period of time, and Vikram was able to contribute quite a bit for this record. But he, of course, doesn't write for Evergrey either so I don't think his participation in the song-writing should make us sound more like them.
In any event, we're lucky to have Tom, as we were lucky to have Ray. We've made music that I'm quite proud of with both.
I think of Redemption as having a number of different flavors of songs and this has been consistent over the years. We have always had longer, prog "epics" if you will. We have also had traditional melodic metal with a progressive twist. And -- owing both to my growing up on Bay Area thrash and also not wanting to be dismissed for being "wimpy prog guys" we have always had an aggressive side that combines really heavy music with strong melody. Not many bands do this. Comparisons to them (as have been made in this thread) are inevitable, though. If I can write music that sounds like Evergrey or Nevermore, I consider that a damn good song. They don't all sound like that.
We have three other songs planned as releases prior to the album itself coming out. One is melodic metal with a prog edge, one is a prog epic, and one is something a bit different for us where Vikram brought us something really special that I don't want to spoil with a description right now. I don't think you'll mistake any of these for Evergrey, or Nevermore. To me, we sound like us, and always have. And part of that is that our vocalist sounds like Evergrey's, in the same way that Heaven & Hell's vocalist sounded like DIo's. And in the same way that our previous vocalist sounded like Fates Warning's.
I hope you and others find something to enjoy from what we do, and in any event, thank you for listening and commenting.
I think those are all great and fair points in a respectful post. While I kind of wish Tom would be more Evergrey Tom because I think that's really what he is good at, I totally get the reasoning. I also think he sings similar to Ray did in Redemption so it all makes sense to me. And I don't think this is odd within the industry either. There's plenty of examples where new singers come in and try to keep a style within that band and not do what they've necessarily have done in their other band/s.
That's the tough part of being the newer singer after an amazing singer has placed their signature into the tone and sound of the music. To be respectful of the musical vision of the band, the vocal tones are just as important. In bands where singers are really famous, this is priority. I actually think no band is immune to how important a vocalists tone plays in defining the entire tone of the music the band plays. And it's really up to the band to how far they want to experiment on keeping that same tone or branching into the world.
I am glad we got Tom as a vocalist and with the topics Redemption sings about, I think he is a great person to put that same emotion into his delivery. And after finally hearing Evergrey enough to a bit familiar with his style, I would definitely be up to hearing that more ingrained in Redemption. I wouldn't think it would sound like Everygrey, as these two bands have two different creative minds. But I also understand, to be respectful of that creative mind, not wanting to sound too much like the other.
I'm listening to Alive In Color now and after hearing The Echo Chamber, I can hear the similarities to how Ray sang in Redemption. And I noticed that it's similar to Nicks backing vocals. So, I actually do think they're both implementing Nicks singing style into their lead vocals as a way to incorporate his singing style/tone into the music he writes, since he is the creative mind. I wouldn't be surprised too if Nick sings them the melodies when they're recording, or if he sends them guide vocal demos.
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That's the tough part of being the newer singer after an amazing singer has placed their signature into the tone and sound of the music.
I don't think that's it at all, at least not for me. I don't like Tom's voice. Period. There's a reason that I don't listen to Evergrey.
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He shouldn't have had to justify with a response really, but nice that he did. Ray isn't in the band anymore, so what's he supposed to do? I don't mind since Tom is one of my fav singers.
As others have said, he didn't need to tell Tom to sing differently as the last album wouldn't have sounded like Evergrey if he did, just like Redemption never sounded like FW.
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That's the tough part of being the newer singer after an amazing singer has placed their signature into the tone and sound of the music.
I don't think that's it at all, at least not for me. I don't like Tom's voice. Period. There's a reason that I don't listen to Evergrey.
Tim - have you ever checked out their In Search of Truth album (it's their third, from 2001)? I know sometimes his voice can be a bit "much", but that album for me it's a mini-masterpiece of dark, progressive/power metal, and I find Englund's voice on it a little easier to digest (even if arguably less "mature")
(Sorry, not to hijack the thread into an Evergrey discussion...just a quick rec)
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Wonderful progressive metal album indeed.
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Yep, and to be clear, I LOVE Tom's voice myself - but I get how it might not be everyone's cup of tea...
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That's the tough part of being the newer singer after an amazing singer has placed their signature into the tone and sound of the music.
I don't think that's it at all, at least not for me. I don't like Tom's voice. Period. There's a reason that I don't listen to Evergrey.
Tim - have you ever checked out their In Search of Truth album (it's their third, from 2001)? I know sometimes his voice can be a bit "much", but that album for me it's a mini-masterpiece of dark, progressive/power metal, and I find Englund's voice on it a little easier to digest (even if arguably less "mature")
(Sorry, not to hijack the thread into an Evergrey discussion...just a quick rec)
Ugh.. ;D
Since you recommended it, I'll check it out. I'll try and get to it sometime this week.
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:lol
Our gift to you Tim.....Tom Englund!
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:lol
And Tim, don't feel like you have to check it out (obviously) :)
...but yes, you might actually enjoy this...
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Another new song: https://open.spotify.com/track/2H1mYiJ8LYf5nyKuxV9Np5?si=4PjJHkFsSuW982_2Lr3ujA&utm_source=copy-link
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Another new song: https://open.spotify.com/track/2H1mYiJ8LYf5nyKuxV9Np5?si=4PjJHkFsSuW982_2Lr3ujA&utm_source=copy-link
WOW 2/2! Between Riverside, Haken & Redemption....WHATAYEAR for prog metal :metal
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From itunes:
01 I Am The Storm 4.27
02 Seven Minutes From Sunset 4.28
03 Remember The Dawn 8.26
04 The Emotional Depiction Of Light 6.10
05 Resilience 4.36
06 Action At A Distance 14.19
07 Turn It On Again 4.19
08 All This Time (And Not Enough) 12.36
09 The Emotional Depiction of Light 6.12
10 Red Rain 5.37
Pre-order: https://shop.afm-records.de/redemption/?fbclid=IwAR3RCtaUloO1tbSJGdJV7bAWvvPsJQLNzyt0o_5my_nOHRclKAQP1h1guX8
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Really liked the new track on first listen, which is quite rare for me :tup :metal
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New song isn’t doing it for me. Tom’s vocals sound “off” to my ears.
And how is a song called “Seven Minutes From Sunset” only four and a half minutes long?
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New song isn’t doing it for me. Tom’s vocals sound “off” to my ears.
And how is a song called “Seven Minutes From Sunset” only four and a half minutes long?
:rollin
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Seeing that Nik has a tendency to throw a cover on albums occasionally, if Red Rain is going to be his take on the Peter Gabriel song :caffeine:
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I don't think I saw it posted here yet... but found traclisting:
"I Am The Storm"-Tracklist:
01. I Am The Storm
02. Seven Minutes From Sunset
03. Remember The Dawn
04. The Emotional Depiction Of Light
05. Resilience
06. Action At A Distance
07. Turn It On Again (Genesis cover)
08. All This Time (And Not Enough)
09. The Emotional Depiction Of Light (Remix)
10. Red Rain (Peter Gabriel cover)
Vinyl-Bonustracks:
The Pearl Clutchers (feat. Chris)
The Far Side Of The Clouds (feat. Henrik Danhage)
https://www.sonicperspectives.com/news/redemption-announces-new-album-i-am-the-storm/
Looks like it is Mason.
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I'm most curious to see their heavy version of Turn It On Again, since is the original is so light and keyboard's oriented.
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"Vinyl-exclusive tracks"
Auuughhhh :'(
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More dumb record label ideas, vinyl exclusive songs, but a Genesis cover on the CD?
Should have been the other way round :yarr
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That does seem like a really silly idea in this day and age, but I guess with CD's on the out and streaming services taking over, they need something to try and keep buying some sort of physical product. They'll end up online pretty quick anyway though.
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Why not cd and vinyl only? People who want a physical copy can choose the format that works for them. I'm not buying the vinyl; I do have a cd player though.
I still haven't heard the newest song; may just wait for the album to be out.
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Review:
https://myglobalmind.com/2023/02/17/redemption-i-am-the-storm-review/
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So it's an album of 7 new tracks and two covers, one which falls during original track play, and a remix, and two more original songs only exclusive as bonus tracks on vinyl?
I don't understand why they would agree to this?
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So it's an album of 7 new tracks and two covers, one which falls during original track play, and a remix, and two more original songs only exclusive as bonus tracks on vinyl?
I don't understand why they would agree to this?
It's still almost an hour or new original music.
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Sure and don't get me wrong, keen as to hear this but dunno. Why put two cover songs on the CD pressing and not the more original songs for all to enjoy? And will never understand why bands continue to put these covers iwhere they do and not at albums end?
Tracklisting just seems a little messy but maybe it's just me!?
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Tracklisting just seems a little messy but maybe it's just me!?
No, I agree with you
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Sure and don't get me wrong, keen as to hear this but dunno. Why put two cover songs on the CD pressing and not the more original songs for all to enjoy? And will never understand why bands continue to put these covers iwhere they do and not at albums end?
Tracklisting just seems a little messy but maybe it's just me!?
Oh yeah, I'm totally with you there.
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Wolfie, time to update the thread title :)
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Wolfie, time to update the thread title :)
Wow, you know what.....when I saw it just now I thought the exact same thing mate!
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Agreed with a lot of the comments about the bonus tracks and the covers. But thought I'd respond to this:
And will never understand why bands continue to put these covers iwhere they do and not at albums end?
Tracklisting just seems a little messy but maybe it's just me!?
I think it depends on a lot of things. Some bands just don't care about track order, and it can be kind of random. We know bands like this. For bands that DO care about track order and include cover songs, I can see the decision of where to put the covers being influenced by a lot of factors. Maybe the album proper has a certain flow, and they want to feel like the album ends on a certain note, so they put the cover somewhere in the middle to preserve their proper ending with the band's chosen closing song. Or maybe they want to preserve a certain overall album flow and have the cover song tacked on at the end to feel more like "OK, the main album is over. But here's a little bonus encore for the fans." I don't see either as being a problem. As with other tracklisting decisions, it's just another aspect of the band's creative visions. Sometimes the fans think it works; sometimes we don't.
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There are bands that don't care about the track order? That's news to me although I can see how the label might have influence over that and I'm sure the label has influence in this situation too.
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https://open.spotify.com/track/7MDtIQkNqls9pl1JMIRNhB?si=dvXwhytsRS2FnDi2Cnvryg
Another new song
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Sure and don't get me wrong, keen as to hear this but dunno. Why put two cover songs on the CD pressing and not the more original songs for all to enjoy? And will never understand why bands continue to put these covers iwhere they do and not at albums end?
It worked for Van Halen?
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I actually like how the covers were placed in the flow of the previous albums.
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I think, like Van Halen or Metallica, what Redemptions does is much closer to versions than covers, making them very much their own. So, it makes sense, if they feel like the covers fit among their newer material, to place them in the main album. But... I wouldn't trade any new song of theirs for a cover.
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Agreed with a lot of the comments about the bonus tracks and the covers. But thought I'd respond to this: And will never understand why bands continue to put these covers iwhere they do and not at albums end?
Tracklisting just seems a little messy but maybe it's just me!?
I think it depends on a lot of things. Some bands just don't care about track order, and it can be kind of random. We know bands like this. For bands that DO care about track order and include cover songs, I can see the decision of where to put the covers being influenced by a lot of factors. Maybe the album proper has a certain flow, and they want to feel like the album ends on a certain note, so they put the cover somewhere in the middle to preserve their proper ending with the band's chosen closing song. Or maybe they want to preserve a certain overall album flow and have the cover song tacked on at the end to feel more like "OK, the main album is over. But here's a little bonus encore for the fans." I don't see either as being a problem. As with other tracklisting decisions, it's just another aspect of the band's creative visions. Sometimes the fans think it works; sometimes we don't.
Cheers!
I have no doubt whatsoever it's my narrow minded opinion regards cover songs that factors into my frustration regards where bands place cover songs on albums. Never was a fan of cover songs as such and I'm even less a fan when a bands notoriety and/or success is launched by releasing a cover song. But that said I don't dislike them, think I own maybe 2 covers albums, just feel they have their place.
One of my all time favorite albums has a cover song on it however, and smack in the middle at that. The Angels (from Australia) 1986 album Howling saw a lot of success with We Gotta Get Out Of This Place by The Animals. Considering it was my introduction to both the band and song I forgive myself as at the age of 15 not knowing at the time it was a cover, and to be fair by that time The Angels had several original albums under their belt and huge success in their own county by then so whatever...
But generally speaking (particularly now having a more expansive knowledge of songs), while I don't mind and can enjoy a good cover, would much rather they leave that stuff for cover 'albums' or bonus tracks, or as was the case back in the day, a good cover always made for a perfect B-Side.
Maybe it's a rotten opinion I dunno, but is what it it is ;)
(Sorry for the edits using my crummy phone)
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I think I was 12 when I got Van Halen I. I had no idea You Really Got Me was a cover either. :lol
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I love Tom in Evergrey and I gave him a chance with Redemption, but it just doesn’t work for me, especially on the last two songs that were released.
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It's hit or miss for me, some moments are good, the others are not so much. I think the problem remains with Nick or whoever is writing the melodies, they seem to be still writing for something Ray would sing, imo.
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I really like this new song but Tom is very limited in the vocal melodies. You can almost hear him purposely trying to restrain himself. These songs sound way more restrained again than anything on the last album.
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I've been listening to the 3 songs available on Spotify. I have to say I'm impressed and really looking forward to the rest of the tracks. Honestly, Remember the Dawn might be my favorite thing they've ever done, and that's a high bar, not a low bar. The title track is good, but not that memorable to me, but Seven Minutes from Sunset is top quality as well. I don't know how Nick van Dyk does it, but I consistently enjoy listening to him riff more than just about anyone else out there. Anyone get their hands on the whole thing yet?
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I've been listening to the 3 songs available on Spotify. I have to say I'm impressed and really looking forward to the rest of the tracks. Honestly, Remember the Dawn might be my favorite thing they've ever done, and that's a high bar, not a low bar. The title track is good, but not that memorable to me, but Seven Minutes from Sunset is top quality as well. I don't know how Nick van Dyk does it, but I consistently enjoy listening to him riff more than just about anyone else out there. Anyone get their hands on the whole thing yet?
I'm waiting Friday's release so I can see what I will get. Looks like the vinyl and CD have different tracks.
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Tbh I haven't been impressed with the pre-release tracks so far particularly disappointing considering I loved Long Night's Journey. But with the album dropped onto Spotify in Aus already checked it out by first playing something not heard yet, the song being Remember The Dawn and it's pretty bloody killer :metal :laugh:
So ok then, let's go...
Editing to add The Emotional Depiction Of Light is a huge surprise. A heap of modern pop elements in there but damn how it works so well. Those guitars and vocals, sublime.
:o
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Tbh I haven't been impressed with the pre-release tracks so far particularly disappointing considering I loved Long Night's Journey. But with the album dropped onto Spotify in Aus already checked it out by first playing something not heard yet, the song being Remember The Dawn and it's pretty bloody killer :metal :laugh:
So ok then, let's go...
Pretty sure it was that one they released a video for a couple weeks ago. I enjoyed it.
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Tbh I haven't been impressed with the pre-release tracks so far particularly disappointing considering I loved Long Night's Journey. But with the album dropped onto Spotify in Aus already checked it out by first playing something not heard yet, the song being Remember The Dawn and it's pretty bloody killer :metal :laugh:
So ok then, let's go...
Pretty sure it was that one they released a video for a couple weeks ago. I enjoyed it.
It was?
Think gave that 3rd single a cursory listen thought it was meh and decided to wait for the album so I clearly don't remember much about it LOL
And if so we'll guess could argue made the right decision because it's certainly impressing me now \m/
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Hey guys, this is Vikram Shankar, keyboardist of Redemption, here - just wanted to give a quick shout and thank those who have checked out I Am The Storm, which drops today. It's my first full album with the band and an honor to be working with a band with such a noble and storied history. :heart
If anybody has any questions about the making of the album, etc., I'd be happy to try to answer them. :)
Editing to add The Emotional Depiction Of Light is a huge surprise. A heap of modern pop elements in there but damn how it works so well. Those guitars and vocals, sublime.
Thank you! That song is my baby so this is really gratifying to hear (read?).
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Loving the new Redemption album!!!! Been a fan for a long time and admittedly didn't "love" the last album.
But this one really brings it. Too early to rate amongst all their albums, but first impression is that I like it better than previous couple of albums (even Art of Loss that had Ray on it). The new album really works with Tom Englund on it.
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I'm four tracks into this at the moment, and on that alone, it's my favorite album of the year so far. This slays.
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Editing to add The Emotional Depiction Of Light is a huge surprise. A heap of modern pop elements in there but damn how it works so well. Those guitars and vocals, sublime.
Thank you! That song is my baby so this is really gratifying to hear (read?).
That song really stood out to me as well. I had the album on with the volume kind of low as background music and when I heard it, I had to go back and look at what song it was because it was such a different style for Redemption, but it caught my ear quickly. I'm looking forward to diving into the album much more.
Edit - forgot to add that when I heard The Emotional Depiction of Light, my eyes actually started tearing up. My mom has Alzheimer's and the last few months of seeing her change from the woman that raised me has been hard. Tom's vocals and the vocal melodies just caught me at a time when I was thinking of her and it was like he and the band were speaking to me. I haven't looked for the lyrics of that song yet, but there were some lines that felt like they were written just for me.
It's not too often that metal music catches me like that where it mirrors my life and hits me as hard as it did that moment.
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Has anyone heard the bonus tracks on the vinyl? Probably too early to ask. Trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on the vinyl. Loving the album so far. Enjoying it better than the last one. Instrumentally, this album is sick!
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I listened to the album early morning during my commute and from my first listen I thought it was alright but nothing special. however The Emotional Depiction of Light grabbed me from the get-go. That particular track is amazing and on the level with Black and White World for me. I think I'll revisit this album a few more times when it's not 5:40 AM and I'm not grumpy as hell.
Also the title track inevitably reminded me of this glorious Breaking Bad-related video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhW20hLp6M
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I like the album so much that i ordered the vinyl. Even though i don’t have a record player lol. Hopefully someday I’ll get to play the bonus songs. If not it looks cool as hell at least (clear blue and white marbled).
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Loving the new album! Indeed The Emotional Depiction of Light is an amazing highlight, as well as Remember the Dawn and Resilience is a totally killer track. Anyway the album is very very strong as a whole. I'm still digesting the two bigger epics, but they are great, with middle orchestral/keyboard sections that caught my attention at first listening. My only complain (besides the 2 bonus tracks only in vinyl... why?!) is the Turn It On Again version, since the instrumentation is a bit messy and Tom isn't fitting with the rest of the band in the verses, sounding a bit chaotic, not in a interesting way. The Red Rain cover is in the vein of Queensrÿche's which is really nice.
PS: Nowadays I think anyone who actually buy music in any format (digital, CD, LP etc) should be rewarded with the same bonus content and those bonus shouldn't be available for streaming IMO.
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Remember the Dawn is a sequel to Keep Breathing right?
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Haven't been able to check the album yet, but I'm a bit bummed that the two original bonus tracks are vinyl only, yet we get two covers on the main album ??? . Other than that, I'm excited to listen to it :tup
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I'm very intrigued by the album, more challenging to digest than I anticipated.
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I liked the album a lot! My first taste of Redemption in many a year.
The covers were not great, and I would rather they not have been included. But all of the original stuff was quite tasty.
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I liked the album a lot! My first taste of Redemption in many a year.
The covers were not great, and I would rather they not have been included. But all of the original stuff was quite tasty.
I love the Red Rain cover, but the other one could go. Tom's vocals on Red Rain are wonderful, and I think it sounds a lot better than the version Queensryche once did.
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It's similiar to Queensryche's version in the arrangements, but it's ideed better. Tom did an amazing job on it, specially at the very end.
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I liked the album a lot! My first taste of Redemption in many a year.
The covers were not great, and I would rather they not have been included. But all of the original stuff was quite tasty.
I love the Red Rain cover, but the other one could go. Tom's vocals on Red Rain are wonderful, and I think it sounds a lot better than the version Queensryche once did.
Red Rain definitely worked better for me than the other, but I would rather that be something done live, and get another original song on the album.
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After listening to the whole album many times, I continue to think that Remember the Dawn is the single best track they've ever done. The big riff from the middle that gets passed from the guitar to the keys just won't leave my head.
Actually not a huge fan of Emotional Depiction of Light. It's ok I guess. I don't think it's in the band's wheelhouse though. I don't think the emotional tone of the song matches the instrumentation.
Action at a Distance, I'm going to put that up there with their best epics, if not the best. The way the themes weave through, and with that breakdown section in the middle building back up, is so fulfilling.
All This Time (And not Enough) is a really good track, although I don't know how I feel about the funky bass towards the end.
Like others, I don't think their version of Turn it on Again works that well, and I'm a big fan of the original. I did like the Red Rain cover though.
All this is to say, this is a great album. I don't know if it surpasses Snowfall on Judgment Day (it might), but it's up there for sure.
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Hey guys, this is Vikram Shankar, keyboardist of Redemption, here - just wanted to give a quick shout and thank those who have checked out I Am The Storm, which drops today. It's my first full album with the band and an honor to be working with a band with such a noble and storied history. :heart
If anybody has any questions about the making of the album, etc., I'd be happy to try to answer them. :)
Editing to add The Emotional Depiction Of Light is a huge surprise. A heap of modern pop elements in there but damn how it works so well. Those guitars and vocals, sublime.
Thank you! That song is my baby so this is really gratifying to hear (read?).
Welcome, Vikram! Thanks for dropping in. Anything you can share would be awesome. I'm sure we'll have lots of questions once we've had more chances to hear more of the music. And tell Nick we have always enjoyed his posts in the past and would love to have him post here as well.
EDIT: Wait, you dropped a couple of posts here as far back as 2013?? :eek
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Hey guys, this is Vikram Shankar, keyboardist of Redemption, here - just wanted to give a quick shout and thank those who have checked out I Am The Storm, which drops today. It's my first full album with the band and an honor to be working with a band with such a noble and storied history. :heart
If anybody has any questions about the making of the album, etc., I'd be happy to try to answer them. :)
Editing to add The Emotional Depiction Of Light is a huge surprise. A heap of modern pop elements in there but damn how it works so well. Those guitars and vocals, sublime.
Thank you! That song is my baby so this is really gratifying to hear (read?).
Welcome, Vikram! Thanks for dropping in. Anything you can share would be awesome. I'm sure we'll have lots of questions once we've had more chances to hear more of the music. And tell Nick we have always enjoyed his posts in the past and would love to have him post here as well.
EDIT: Wait, you dropped a couple of posts here as far back as 2013?? :eek
Cheers! Yeah, I guess I've been a member here for ages but have no recollection of it. Definitely should change that!
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Hey guys, this is Vikram Shankar, keyboardist of Redemption, here - just wanted to give a quick shout and thank those who have checked out I Am The Storm, which drops today. It's my first full album with the band and an honor to be working with a band with such a noble and storied history. :heart
If anybody has any questions about the making of the album, etc., I'd be happy to try to answer them. :)
Editing to add The Emotional Depiction Of Light is a huge surprise. A heap of modern pop elements in there but damn how it works so well. Those guitars and vocals, sublime.
Thank you! That song is my baby so this is really gratifying to hear (read?).
Welcome, Vikram! Thanks for dropping in. Anything you can share would be awesome. I'm sure we'll have lots of questions once we've had more chances to hear more of the music. And tell Nick we have always enjoyed his posts in the past and would love to have him post here as well.
EDIT: Wait, you dropped a couple of posts here as far back as 2013?? :eek
Cheers! Yeah, I guess I've been a member here for ages but have no recollection of it. Definitely should change that!
After seeing your post history. I do remember some of them from The Astonishing threads. Glad your one of us that does enjoy The Astonishing.
Does that album have an influence to your approach to the more epic songs on I Am The Storm?
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Hey guys, this is Vikram Shankar, keyboardist of Redemption, here - just wanted to give a quick shout and thank those who have checked out I Am The Storm, which drops today. It's my first full album with the band and an honor to be working with a band with such a noble and storied history. :heart
If anybody has any questions about the making of the album, etc., I'd be happy to try to answer them. :)
Editing to add The Emotional Depiction Of Light is a huge surprise. A heap of modern pop elements in there but damn how it works so well. Those guitars and vocals, sublime.
Thank you! That song is my baby so this is really gratifying to hear (read?).
Welcome, Vikram! Thanks for dropping in. Anything you can share would be awesome. I'm sure we'll have lots of questions once we've had more chances to hear more of the music. And tell Nick we have always enjoyed his posts in the past and would love to have him post here as well.
EDIT: Wait, you dropped a couple of posts here as far back as 2013?? :eek
Cheers! Yeah, I guess I've been a member here for ages but have no recollection of it. Definitely should change that!
After seeing your post history. I do remember some of them from The Astonishing threads. Glad your one of us that does enjoy The Astonishing.
Does that album have an influence to your approach to the more epic songs on I Am The Storm?
Oh man, I love The Astonishing. I saw that tour twice, and each time I expected to be skeptical, but I was moved to tears. Amazing album, and it really does grind my gears when people say DT only wants to make the same album ad nauseam, when they made that and so many fans hated it ;D
I wouldn't say The Astonishing is an influence on how I approach long songs, per se. My favorite "long prog song" is Octavarium, probably my favorite prog rock/metal song ever, and in that case I particularly love their use of motivic development, the fact that it's supposedly "five songs in one" but the transitions are just exquisite and the way themes are developed and referred to is really crafty and organic. I tend to not enjoy long songs that feel like multiple tracks stapled together, so if the song can have some sort of organic "through-line" logic, I appreciate that a lot. Action at a Distance is an example of that on the new album, where the orchestral section cello melody is referential to the synth melody in the very intro, the chords and piano sequences in the orchestral section are referred to later, and the "Rush moment" of drums and bass right after the orchestral section is based on the part after the first chorus. This kind of development of existing material (while keeping it fresh and engaging) is what makes a long song "work" for me.
The ultimate example is classical music, and how themes can be developed and modified over the course of many minutes. Something to strive for, I guess :)
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That's exactly why I think Octavarium should go down as a prog masterpiece with anything that came before it, it's one of the most amazing well written epics of all time. Well said there Vikram.
I can't wait to check the new album too mate. I'll post my thoughts when I do. Oh and....
and it really does grind my gears when people say DT only wants to make the same album ad nauseam, when they made that and so many fans hated it ;D
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/015/976/homer-simpson-bush-gif.gif)
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Eh, I think that's over simplifying things a bit.
At that point in their career, something like Train of Thought was far heavier throughout and a different approach, but is one of my favorites.
The Astonishing was also "something different", but easily my least favorite Dream Theater album, and about the only one I actively dislike. I appreciate that they tried something different, I just don't think it was done well.
And while I still need to get the new Redemption, while Vikram is around I think it should be noted that everyone should *really* be excited for whenever we get another Lux Terminus album. :D
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The Astonishing was also "something different", but easily my least favorite Dream Theater album, and about the only one I actively dislike. I appreciate that they tried something different, I just don't think it was done well.
Pretty much my thoughts also.
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Incidentally, the first time I meaningfully hung out with the guys in Redemption was in 2017 when I flew to LA to see the DT Images and Words tour with Nick. So for me DT and Redemption are intertwined in my head even more than they may be for most. :)
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And while I still need to get the new Redemption, while Vikram is around I think it should be noted that everyone should *really* be excited for whenever we get another Lux Terminus album. :D
We're getting there!! I have pretty much the whole album written, we just need to track it "for real" and put the finishing touches on it. I know it's been far too long...
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Did some painting last weekend and while doing so I pulled about 15 albums from my collection. One of which was Snowfall. Just an amazing album and Ray's vocals are perfection.
Try as I might, I just can't make the same connection with the new fella.
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Without Alder on vocals, I won't be getting this. Too bad.
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Eh, I think that's over simplifying things a bit.
At that point in their career, something like Train of Thought was far heavier throughout and a different approach, but is one of my favorites.
The Astonishing was also "something different", but easily my least favorite Dream Theater album, and about the only one I actively dislike. I appreciate that they tried something different, I just don't think it was done well.
But see, that's a totally fair criticism and I think is different that what Vikram is talking about. As you know, one of the reasons I really wanted you on the mod staff from day 1 when this forum was established is that you get the difference between fair-minded critique and just bashing or giving mindless criticism. Your opinion is clearly the former.
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Try as I might, I just can't make the same connection with the new fella.
Without Alder on vocals, I won't be getting this. Too bad.
I can appreciate a new vocalist and would certainly give them a chance, but Tom Englund just doesn't do it for me, and until they get someone else, I'm basically out on Redemption, which is too bad because they were one of my favorite post 2000 bands.
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I think Tom does really well, but Ray could have added a bit more emotion to really tug at the heartstrings, especially on a the Emotional Depiction of Light.
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I kind of forget about the new album, good to hear some positive remarks here. I'll have to get on it soon.
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I really enjoyed Ray's time in the band. Snowfall and This Mortal Coil were both contenders for album of the year in the years they came out, and are some of my favorite post-2000 albums. And I wasn't really a fan of Tom's work in Evergrey (nothing against him by any means--his vocals just didn't connect with me). But I was pleasantly surprised to really love his vocals on the last album, and I put it right up there with Snowfall as my favorite from the band.
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I still need to check this out. I'm looking for somewhere to buy it digitally but just seems hard to get.
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I still need to check this out. I'm looking for somewhere to buy it digitally but just seems hard to get.
Zdigital here now have it for a bit over $10 mate :metal
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Oh wow, nice site mate. Looks perfect.
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So I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think, that I liked this album so much that I bought the vinyl even though I don't have a record player. Wanted to support the band since I pay for spotify now and generally don't buy albums anymore.
Finally bought a record player (and in the meantime have been slowly starting a collection of records along the way)... I can confirm that the two vinyl exclusive tracks are awesome (on par with the rest of the album for sure), particularly The Far Side of the Clouds. That has the trademark Nick Van Dyk deep/awesome lyrics that I love Redemption for. Pearl Clutchers is great too, a very high energy prog metal-fest. The musicianship on the album (both the vinyl tracks and the album in general) is just really great.
If anyone is on the fence about this album because of the absence of Ray (but otherwise have always loved Redemption)... Unless you just can't stand Tom's voice, you should at least check the album out. My favorite song on it is "All This Time (and Not Enough)". Such a great song.
Wanted to touch on "Turn it on Again" also since that seems to be the most common complaint I hear about the album lol. I personally like it quite a bit and also like the placement of it. Being between the two "epics" of the album creates a bit of a breather to avoid "epic fatigue". Just my opinions, of course.
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If anyone is on the fence about this album because of the absence of Ray (but otherwise have always loved Redemption)... Unless you just can't stand Tom's voice, you should at least check the album out. My favorite song on it is "All This Time (and Not Enough)". Such a great song.
Well, this is me, but I also think it sounds awful, at least on Spotify anyway. Every instrument feels jammed into one spot.
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Wanted to touch on "Turn it on Again" also since that seems to be the most common complaint I hear about the album lol. I personally like it quite a bit and also like the placement of it. Being between the two "epics" of the album creates a bit of a breather to avoid "epic fatigue". Just my opinions, of course.
I'm not crazy about it, but it's not bad at all. And I agree on the placement.
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REDEMPTION Premier "Seven Minutes From Sunset" Music Video
https://lotsofmuzik.com/redemption-premier-seven-minutes-from-sunset-music-video/
:tup