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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: changing_seasons on March 23, 2010, 06:36:26 PM

Title: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: changing_seasons on March 23, 2010, 06:36:26 PM
I got both Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears from my iPhone today, and I started wondering about something. Did John Myung perhaps retreat to his solitary shell (pun intended) because Jordan joined the band? I imagine before this it was John and John who wrote most of the music - certainly most of the riffs - together. Then came Jordan, and JP got a technical wizard to challenge him. I always think of JP and JM back in the day sitting in a basement playing Rush together and coming up with original music. Now maybe JM doesnt think there is room for that stuff anymore.

I don't recall seing this angle discussed before, so that's my take on it. 
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: kirbywelch92 on March 23, 2010, 06:45:05 PM
I think that may have slightly something to do with it, but I think it's mainly Mike's policy of only presented finalized and complete music before moving forward, which is a bit ridiculous. These trend really did start with Jordan, case in point being the SDOIT overture and how the band decided to adopt it so quickly considering the fact that it was for the most part finished. And, perhaps Myung is a bit like myself and is afraid to push his own ideas forward especially when someone else gets so excited about it.

Is it all JR, no, but I think his arrival began the snowball that led to JMX's lack of input in the band's direction.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: reneranucci on March 23, 2010, 06:45:49 PM
No.

And "MPīs policy" doesnīt have anything to do with the music but with having lyrics and melodies arranged, as far as I know.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: razorsedge on March 23, 2010, 07:49:04 PM
interesting thought.  i mean, i can't say anything with any certainty, but this seems rather plausible in my opinion.  john and mike go and do this side project with jordan and a few years later jordan is a member of the band.  i would think it has something to do with the fact that they enjoy writing music with the guy.  whether it is easier for them or whatever is irrelevant; they like the process with jordan and jordan, therefore, becomes a very influential and active contributor.  other contributors try and establish a new role in the band that accommodates jordan and jmx developed what we have now.    also, the fact that jordan is so in to the nature of sound, i imagine he has a lot of impact simply for the fact that his explorations in the realm of sound and timbre must influence what the band does.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: ddtonfire on March 23, 2010, 09:36:20 PM
JR's left hand speaks for JM.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 24, 2010, 04:53:08 AM
No.  AFAIK, it's only been relatively recently that JM has basically become a session player in the studio.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: changing_seasons on March 24, 2010, 06:56:25 AM
The reason I was thinking this is because FII seems to be the last album where the bass is somewhat prominent. I guess SFAM has its moments too, but much of that was written before Jordan joined the band.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on March 24, 2010, 07:24:43 AM
The reason I was thinking this is because FII seems to be the last album where the bass is somewhat prominent. I guess SFAM has its moments too, but much of that was written before Jordan joined the band.

It's prominent up until about SC, but the trend got to be just doubling JP/JR

FII was the last album where JMX really played outside of everyone else, and it really shows. His work on that album is just fantastic
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 24, 2010, 08:42:08 AM
I guess SFAM has its moments too, but much of that was written before Jordan joined the band.
I wouldn't say "much" of it.  They used some pieces of the Metropolis Pt. 2 demo, but not all of it.  Even if they used all 25 minutes of it, that would still leave almost an hour's worth of music on SFAM.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: emindead on March 24, 2010, 09:30:51 AM
JM is going to participate in the next album. Wasn't here some news saying that he was learning guitar for that matter? I'm not that worried.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on March 24, 2010, 09:33:55 AM
JR buttseck'd JM.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: TJPNET on March 24, 2010, 10:16:06 AM
JR buttseck'd JM.

It's super effective!

I miss JMX, both in the mix and in the writing process. I listened to SFAM the other day, and it reminded me that I miss what he used to bring to the band.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Samsara on March 24, 2010, 10:20:13 AM


FII was the last album where JMX really played outside of everyone else, and it really shows. His work on that album is just fantastic

His work on that record was great. Actually, everything about that record is all sorts of awesomeness in my opinion. But yeah, bass-wise, it was really, really dynamic. I miss that.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Dream Team on March 24, 2010, 11:26:38 AM
I think that may have slightly something to do with it, but I think it's mainly Mike's policy of only presented finalized and complete music before moving forward, which is a bit ridiculous. These trend really did start with Jordan, case in point being the SDOIT overture and how the band decided to adopt it so quickly considering the fact that it was for the most part finished. And, perhaps Myung is a bit like myself and is afraid to push his own ideas forward especially when someone else gets so excited about it.

Is it all JR, no, but I think his arrival began the snowball that led to JMX's lack of input in the band's direction.

And people wonder why MP gets pissed.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Samsara on March 24, 2010, 12:28:35 PM
I think that may have slightly something to do with it, but I think it's mainly Mike's policy of only presented finalized and complete music before moving forward, which is a bit ridiculous. These trend really did start with Jordan, case in point being the SDOIT overture and how the band decided to adopt it so quickly considering the fact that it was for the most part finished. And, perhaps Myung is a bit like myself and is afraid to push his own ideas forward especially when someone else gets so excited about it.

Is it all JR, no, but I think his arrival began the snowball that led to JMX's lack of input in the band's direction.

And people wonder why MP gets pissed.  :facepalm:

MP gets pissed because he hates speculation, particularly if that speculation is wrong and picks up steam. But speculation is part of being a fan. Before he was "Mike Portnoy, famed drummer of Dream Theater," he was "Mike" hanging around the haunts on Long Island just like me, speculating about his favorite bands.

So while I can understand his frustration at times, it's a part of the game, and he knows that.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: BRGM on March 24, 2010, 03:34:00 PM
Everyone is kinda sceptical against Dream Theater since Jordan joined, I don't see why :S I mean, Dream Theater is just getting better and better sinced he joined, I think JM has done some cool stuff since Jordan joined too. Stop being so hatish against JordN!
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: changing_seasons on March 24, 2010, 03:55:19 PM
Just to be clear, I think Jordan joining the band was the greatest thing that could happen. Kevin and Derek didn't fit in with the other guys, who were all so vastly superior technically.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: pogoowner on March 24, 2010, 04:14:22 PM
Just to be clear, I think Jordan joining the band was the greatest thing that could happen. Kevin and Derek didn't fit in with the other guys, who were all so vastly superior technically.
I don't think the technical difference between Derek and the other members is all that vast. With Kevin, yes, but his writing more than made up for it.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: FlashCE on March 24, 2010, 06:21:08 PM
Everyone is kinda sceptical against Dream Theater since Jordan joined, I don't see why :S I mean, Dream Theater is just getting better and better sinced he joined, I think JM has done some cool stuff since Jordan joined too. Stop being so hatish against JordN!

tard.jpg
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: robwebster on March 24, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
Everyone is kinda sceptical against Dream Theater since Jordan joined, I don't see why :S I mean, Dream Theater is just getting better and better sinced he joined, I think JM has done some cool stuff since Jordan joined too. Stop being so hatish against JordN!
Agreed... but only to an extent. The band are at the top of their game right now. But John Myung makes even less noise than he did in the FII era and backward. He's done some cool stuff, but if you asked me to mark the point where he suddenly went from quiet to practically silent, it'd be just after SFAM.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 24, 2010, 06:42:02 PM
Anyone who thinks JM is silent since SFAM needs their ears checked I do believe.  The bass takes up a lot of room in the mix on all the new albums.  You all probably just think its bottom heavy guitar.  I know we've had this discussion multiple times.  And who says he is silent in making the music?  I'm sure he adds to the Jams just like everyone else does.  Everyone just  :chill 

Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on March 24, 2010, 06:43:27 PM
Anyone who thinks JM is silent since SFAM needs their ears checked I do believe.  The bass takes up a lot of room in the mix on all the new albums.  You all probably just think its bottom heavy guitar.  I know we've had this discussion multiple times.  And who says he is silent in making the music?  I'm sure he adds to the Jams just like everyone else does.  Everyone just  :chill 



The problem is that we don't have confirmation as to what he's writing. Once we know for sure we can stop speculating

I really hope his lyrics-rumor turns out to be true. :heart JMX lyrics
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 24, 2010, 06:45:44 PM
I think everyone here needs to give John Myung a little more credit as a musician whose goal is to put down the best possible part for the songs that are being written.  Everyone makes JM a little pushover who is just going with the flow.  Give him a little more credit and faith.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on March 24, 2010, 06:49:22 PM
I'd like to give him more credit, really. But this last album just screams JP/JR

And JM doesn't even sound present on Raw Dog. I assumed that would be a band-minus-JLB effort
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 24, 2010, 08:30:40 PM
Everyone makes JM a little pushover who is just going with the flow.  Give him a little more credit and faith.
Well, that is seemingly what he's doing.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 24, 2010, 08:49:57 PM
And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.

Listen to some of his lines in ITPOE part 1, they are really really good.  I think he's just playing what fits the song.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  If the song writing changes and their style starts to shift from the non stop heavy stuff I'm sure Myung's bass playing will change as well.  There is simply no room for fancy "outside" bass playing when the objective of a part or song is to be heavy.  The bass needs to cover the low end and create a solid foundation in those instances.  After all, that is the primary objective of the instrument.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: antigoon on March 24, 2010, 09:11:09 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't think heaviness is an excuse for inaudible bass.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 24, 2010, 09:14:22 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't think heaviness is an excuse for inaudible bass.
:facepalm:  JM's bass is FAAAAR from inaudible.  Seriously.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: antigoon on March 24, 2010, 09:23:21 PM
Have you heard Raw Dog?
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 24, 2010, 09:37:43 PM
Not on a good pair of speakers just built in laptop.  I'm sure its audible.  I'd bet a lot of money on it.  And honestly, that instrumental doesn't really mean anything to me.  It's just kind of this strange one off thing. 
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on March 24, 2010, 09:45:24 PM
And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.


I can definitely appreciate this. However, it seems to a lot of us that he's taken a backseat role to all the writing lately. I mean, out of the last two albums, there are only a few tracks where the bass playing stands out from the rest of the band (The Best of Times, ITPOE, etc)

Whereas on FII, he's all over the place. Using the Chapman Stick on New Millennium was great because he got a chance to BE the lead. Trial of Tears is pretty much John Myung soloing over everyone else. His harmonic lick in Lines in the Sand slaps me in the face every time I hear it. The groove on Take Away My Pain and Burning My Soul are fantastic. That album really showcases his work far better than any of the recent albums could...

Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: ZBomber on March 24, 2010, 09:59:11 PM
And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.


I can definitely appreciate this. However, it seems to a lot of us that he's taken a backseat role to all the writing lately. I mean, out of the last two albums, there are only a few tracks where the bass playing stands out from the rest of the band (The Best of Times, ITPOE, etc)

Whereas on FII, he's all over the place. Using the Chapman Stick on New Millennium was great because he got a chance to BE the lead. Trial of Tears is pretty much John Myung soloing over everyone else. His harmonic lick in Lines in the Sand slaps me in the face every time I hear it. The groove on Take Away My Pain and Burning My Soul are fantastic. That album really showcases his work far better than any of the recent albums could...



Agreed. FII is one of JMX's best albums. His work on that is not only incredible, but extremely up front in the mix.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 24, 2010, 10:47:03 PM
Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on March 24, 2010, 11:52:23 PM
Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 

There's nothing wrong with doubling JP's stuff. However, when you have a bassist like JM, and all he does is come in and learn what other people wrote and double it, it's depressing, whether or not it fits the music.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Volk9 on March 25, 2010, 12:36:33 AM
Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 

There's nothing wrong with doubling JP's stuff. However, when you have a bassist like JM, and all he does is come in and learn what other people wrote and double it, it's depressing, whether or not it fits the music.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: inoku on March 25, 2010, 12:57:05 AM
I'm curious, is there an explanation or a reason mentioned by the band why they focused on JP-JR-MP now?
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: tri.ad on March 25, 2010, 12:58:32 AM
Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 

There's nothing wrong with doubling JP's stuff. However, when you have a bassist like JM, and all he does is come in and learn what other people wrote and double it, it's depressing, whether or not it fits the music.

I really agree with this.

Regarding Raw Dog: JM is audible, but compared to BCASL, he's really quiet in the mix, it takes quite an effort to make him out. What adds to the problem is that JR is doubling the guitar as well sometimes, which confines JM's space even more.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: RaiseTheKnife on March 25, 2010, 04:49:03 AM
I can hear JM's bass just fine in the opening to Raw Dog.  Its killer.  

More killer: that whole fretless/spacey sounding section where JP does the "melody lead" and JR is tacet.  

Plus JM's dissonent and distorted string tapping against the pickup on the upbeats is genuis.  This song is quite a showcase for him and will be a thrill to watch live.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 25, 2010, 04:54:22 AM
Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 
What style?  They don't just do heavy stuff.  Most of BC&SL wasn't heavy.  But he still isn't doing anything near what he used to do.  They could get any session bassist to do what he's done the last several albums.

The difference between them and, say, WDADU or I&W is staggering.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: FlashCE on March 25, 2010, 05:04:46 AM
And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.

Listen to some of his lines in ITPOE part 1, they are really really good.  I think he's just playing what fits the song.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  If the song writing changes and their style starts to shift from the non stop heavy stuff I'm sure Myung's bass playing will change as well.  There is simply no room for fancy "outside" bass playing when the objective of a part or song is to be heavy.  The bass needs to cover the low end and create a solid foundation in those instances.  After all, that is the primary objective of the instrument.

This is just a bad excuse. Plenty of metal and heavy bands have bassists that play outside from doubling the guitars. Listen to Japanese Rock bands like Dir En Grey or the GazettE. They have freaking heavy music with melodic basslines. Check out bands like Protest the Hero. The band is heavy and the bassist plays so many crazy licks.

Also if you guys can't hear the bass in Raw Dog, there's something wrong with your ears. The problem is more so that Myung's basslines are not distinct and they're just boring. He is definitely in the mix.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Dream Team on March 25, 2010, 07:10:32 AM
A lot of examples out there, but Individual Thought Patterns by Death is a heavy album with great audible basslines. Then again, they didn't have a keyboard player . . .
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: antigoon on March 25, 2010, 07:30:27 AM
I can hear JM's bass just fine in the opening to Raw Dog.  Its killer. 

More killer: that whole fretless/spacey sounding section where JP does the "melody lead" and JR is tacet.   

Plus JM's dissonent and distorted string tapping against the pickup on the upbeats is genuis.  This song is quite a showcase for him and will be a thrill to watch live.

I think those are both Rudess. The second one is, at least.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 25, 2010, 09:03:45 AM
And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.

Listen to some of his lines in ITPOE part 1, they are really really good.  I think he's just playing what fits the song.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  If the song writing changes and their style starts to shift from the non stop heavy stuff I'm sure Myung's bass playing will change as well.  There is simply no room for fancy "outside" bass playing when the objective of a part or song is to be heavy.  The bass needs to cover the low end and create a solid foundation in those instances.  After all, that is the primary objective of the instrument.

This is just a bad excuse. Plenty of metal and heavy bands have bassists that play outside from doubling the guitars. Listen to Japanese Rock bands like Dir En Grey or the GazettE. They have freaking heavy music with melodic basslines. Check out bands like Protest the Hero. The band is heavy and the bassist plays so many crazy licks.

Also if you guys can't hear the bass in Raw Dog, there's something wrong with your ears. The problem is more so that Myung's basslines are not distinct and they're just boring. He is definitely in the mix.

I don't think its an excuse at all.  It's a purpose.  JM is doubling the guitar riffs in heavy songs with a purpose to make it thick and TIGHT.  The fact that he doubles a lot of JPs riffs, including doubling unison lines is crazy within itself. 
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on March 25, 2010, 09:30:11 AM
Yes, it's difficult to double JP's lines. But this is JM we're talking about. It would be like putting JP in a Iced Earth or Metallica and just have him double hetfields parts, it's just a waste of a god like musician.

Plus, Awake was heavy and there are LOTS of interesting bass parts going on in there, he didn't JUST sit around learning JP and JRs parts, not to mention how much of the album he actually wrote, which seems to be an ever shrinking amount.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: 7StringedBeast on March 25, 2010, 10:14:10 AM
The Awake bass parts aren't that interesting.  He has Scarred and that is really it as far as interesting bass lines go.  Nothing about his bass playing jumps out at me on that album.  I think Myung is a master at playing what is necessary and knowing when to hold back.  He does what fits the song.  I think a lot of everyone's criticism is just on the way DT writes now and the shift in style that they've had.  Remember DT is not Primus the bass is not supposed to be the focal point of the song. 

Case in point, Octavarium.  The song gives him room and he writes something awesome.  JR was in the band for that.  How about the bass for These Walls during the verse.  Pretty cool and holds that groove down real nice.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Samsara on March 25, 2010, 10:16:59 AM
Yeah, but simply put, DT isn't writing that style of music anymore. 

Unfortunately.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on March 25, 2010, 10:18:57 AM
The Awake bass parts aren't that interesting.  He has Scarred and that is really it as far as interesting bass lines go.  Nothing about his bass playing jumps out at me on that album.  I think Myung is a master at playing what is necessary and knowing when to hold back.  He does what fits the song.  I think a lot of everyone's criticism is just on the way DT writes now and the shift in style that they've had.  Remember DT is not Primus the bass is not supposed to be the focal point of the song. 

Case in point, Octavarium.  The song gives him room and he writes something awesome.  JR was in the band for that.  How about the bass for These Walls during the verse.  Pretty cool and holds that groove down real nice.
Yes, and he has devolved ever since then.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: toro on March 25, 2010, 12:14:55 PM
The Awake bass parts aren't that interesting.  He has Scarred and that is really it as far as interesting bass lines go.  Nothing about his bass playing jumps out at me on that album.  I think Myung is a master at playing what is necessary and knowing when to hold back.  He does what fits the song.  I think a lot of everyone's criticism is just on the way DT writes now and the shift in style that they've had.  Remember DT is not Primus the bass is not supposed to be the focal point of the song. 

Case in point, Octavarium.  The song gives him room and he writes something awesome.  JR was in the band for that.  How about the bass for These Walls during the verse.  Pretty cool and holds that groove down real nice.

Awake whit no interesting bass? (IF,Lifting shadows, Lie,Scarred)
Sorry, Myung isn't doing the same anymore, it's boring(besides octavarium), whe need more myung
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on March 25, 2010, 12:40:34 PM
The Awake bass parts aren't that interesting.  He has Scarred and that is really it as far as interesting bass lines go.  Nothing about his bass playing jumps out at me on that album.  I think Myung is a master at playing what is necessary and knowing when to hold back.  He does what fits the song.  I think a lot of everyone's criticism is just on the way DT writes now and the shift in style that they've had.  Remember DT is not Primus the bass is not supposed to be the focal point of the song. 

Case in point, Octavarium.  The song gives him room and he writes something awesome.  JR was in the band for that.  How about the bass for These Walls during the verse.  Pretty cool and holds that groove down real nice.
Yes, and he has devolved ever since then.

TCOT could have used some more interesting bass lines. In fact, it practically screamed it, and yet the bass really isn't interesting in that song
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: tri.ad on March 25, 2010, 01:14:33 PM
The Awake bass parts aren't that interesting.  He has Scarred and that is really it as far as interesting bass lines go.

I can name at least one very interesting bass part in every single song on Awake (well, except Space-Dye Vest, obviously). I mean, you are entitled to your opinion, but I totally disagree with it.

Remember DT is not Primus the bass is not supposed to be the focal point of the song.

Holy allegations, Batman, where did that come from? Noone in this thread ever said that. Just because DT's music isn't really designed to let the bass be the main driving force doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any room for some interesting "out-breaks" from the meanwhile usual doubling when there clearly is an opportunity for it, even if it doesn't show at first sight. Take Opeth, for example. The bass does a lot of doubling, of course (as you correctly pointed out, to give the riffs more bite), but the bass player sometimes breaks out of it all and delivers something awesome despite the riffs being heavy as ever - take a look at the slap section in Blackwater Park or some parts of The Leper Affinity.

 
Case in point, Octavarium.  The song gives him room and he writes something awesome.  JR was in the band for that.  How about the bass for These Walls during the verse.  Pretty cool and holds that groove down real nice.

With this, I can agree. Also, SDOIT delivers many, many examples. But on SC and BCASL, you really have to look hard into the music to find some places where JM jumps out - the short run before "In peaceful sedation..." in ANTR, for example, or the bass groove in TBOT.

Also, I agree with PLM, TCOT has a lot of sections that left much unused room for cool bass lines.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: KevShmev on March 25, 2010, 01:27:51 PM
The bass parts in Awake aren't that interesting?  I think my head just exploded.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Plasmastrike on March 25, 2010, 02:09:22 PM
I'd just like to say

• The Best Of Times at 7:49. I love the little grooves he does under JLB right there. On a good sound system, his lines are tasty.
• Awake's bass is boring? That's something new.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: bosk1 on March 25, 2010, 02:17:13 PM
But on SC and BCASL, you really have to look hard into the music to find some places where JM jumps out - the short run before "In peaceful sedation..." in ANTR, for example, or the bass groove in TBOT.

Really?  I think there are quite a few actually.  You mentioned a couple.  Off the top of my head, quite a few different ones in ITPoE (pt 1 and pt 2) and the breakdown before the solos in CM come to mind, for example. 
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: tri.ad on March 25, 2010, 02:40:41 PM
Yeah, I was just focusing on BCASL. SC has the bass groove in CM and the little harmonic plays in ITPOE Pt 2, for example, but there's not that much more, as far as I remember.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on March 25, 2010, 05:30:14 PM
And just because JM is playing alone (or just with drums) doesn't mean it's really great. The bass parts in CM are pretty boring to be honest. And in AROT and PA he's just playing the guitar part really. Nothing to show much.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: robwebster on March 25, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
The bass parts in CM are pretty boring to be honest.
Whooooaaaa. Whoa whoa whoa.

Definitely isn't. Really nifty little groove, that.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on March 25, 2010, 06:51:07 PM
The bass parts in CM are pretty boring to be honest.
Whooooaaaa. Whoa whoa whoa.

Definitely isn't. Really nifty little groove, that.

No it's nice. But...it's not like it really says anything about JM. Jason Newstead could have played that part. It's like saying when john strums some chords that it's "featuring" his playing.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Pierced Brosnan on March 25, 2010, 10:04:14 PM
Just because there's some heavier songs, doesn't mean there's less room for cool bass parts. ToT, arguably their most consistantly heavy album, is littered with a fair amount of cool bass parts. There's also a pretty good balance between doubling riffs and adding something different from time to time.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: reneranucci on March 25, 2010, 10:26:59 PM
TOT is definitely a good example of heaviness + cool bass parts.

But Iīm pretty sure JM will always give the fans something to enjoy in the next albums.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: FlashCE on March 26, 2010, 03:21:07 AM
And everything he is doing right now is best for the song I'm sure.  There is not much room to do much fancy bass work in these heavy songs.  The fact that Myung can double JPs guitars is extremely impressive.  He is definitely the hardest worker as far as playing goes.  He never stops moving, and on a bass it's brutal.

Listen to some of his lines in ITPOE part 1, they are really really good.  I think he's just playing what fits the song.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  If the song writing changes and their style starts to shift from the non stop heavy stuff I'm sure Myung's bass playing will change as well.  There is simply no room for fancy "outside" bass playing when the objective of a part or song is to be heavy.  The bass needs to cover the low end and create a solid foundation in those instances.  After all, that is the primary objective of the instrument.

This is just a bad excuse. Plenty of metal and heavy bands have bassists that play outside from doubling the guitars. Listen to Japanese Rock bands like Dir En Grey or the GazettE. They have freaking heavy music with melodic basslines. Check out bands like Protest the Hero. The band is heavy and the bassist plays so many crazy licks.

Also if you guys can't hear the bass in Raw Dog, there's something wrong with your ears. The problem is more so that Myung's basslines are not distinct and they're just boring. He is definitely in the mix.

I don't think its an excuse at all.  It's a purpose.  JM is doubling the guitar riffs in heavy songs with a purpose to make it thick and TIGHT.  The fact that he doubles a lot of JPs riffs, including doubling unison lines is crazy within itself. 

Doubling a guitar part isn't necessary to make something sound tight. Ive mentioned bands like Dir en grey that have an extremely tight and heavy rhythm section yet the bass isn't always incredibly boring.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: KevShmev on March 26, 2010, 12:37:01 PM
Not trying to make a direct comparison here, since they are different bands and different kinds of players, but a friend and I were recently rocking out to The Flower Kings' "Devil's Playground," and during Roine Stolt's incredible, extended solo at the end of the song, Jonas Reingold is playing a ridiculously awesome bass line underneath it.  It is almost like they were soloing against one another, but neither was too overpowering or too much.  They were in complete synchronization and it was a thing of beauty.  And it occurred to me that you almost never hear stuff like that from John Myung, which is a shame, as it could had a whole other element to DT's instrumental sections.  Sadly, he seems content with doing what he has been doing for years now.

Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: rumborak on March 26, 2010, 12:48:03 PM
You know what "DT" release has god-like bass lines? Suspended Animation. They're often at least equally as interesting as the guitar lines.

rumborak
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: reneranucci on March 26, 2010, 01:48:23 PM
True. I want Dave LaRue in DTīs next album.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: ZKX-2099 on March 26, 2010, 03:40:39 PM
Yeah I think the thing we should all realize is if he wanted to do more he probably would. I don't get the impression that he does.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: MirzekDT on March 27, 2010, 03:20:24 AM
Yeah, I was just focusing on BCASL. SC has the bass groove in CM and the little harmonic plays in ITPOE Pt 2, for example, but there's not that much more, as far as I remember.

I think that bass in Repentance adds a lot to it awesomeness especially in Restitution. And whole intro to ITPOE pt.2 is very good bass work not just the harmonic plays. And also the main riff in TDEN maybe he's doubling the guitar I don't remember right now but he's very important there especially because of that high bass note.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Martinman300 on March 27, 2010, 04:53:46 AM
I like all his leads on AFIL
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on March 27, 2010, 09:31:01 AM
I like all his leads on AFIL

WDADU has some really good bass work as well. It's very in-your-face and energetic.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: ddtonfire on March 27, 2010, 09:35:34 AM
I like all his leads on AFIL

WDADU has some really good bass work as well. It's very in-your-face and energetic.

Or high and sad.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: rumborak on March 27, 2010, 11:12:32 AM
With all these laurels piled on JM, one also shouldn't forget that when he actually had solo spots, he also at times completely botched them, especially on the early albums. His choice of fast notes+distorted bass have led to several "wtf?" moments from my side.

rumborak
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on April 05, 2010, 07:37:52 AM
So I'm watching WDADRU and noticed that anytime JM does something crazy, the camera is focused on either Petrucci or Portnoy.

Perhaps Myung just noticed that no matter what he does he's gonna be in the background.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on April 05, 2010, 08:25:53 AM
With all these laurels piled on JM, one also shouldn't forget that when he actually had solo spots, he also at times completely botched them, especially on the early albums. His choice of fast notes+distorted bass have led to several "wtf?" moments from my side.

rumborak


What? I never noticed that
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: reneranucci on April 05, 2010, 08:36:21 AM
So I'm watching WDADRU and noticed that anytime JM does something crazy, the camera is focused on either Petrucci or Portnoy.

Perhaps Myung just noticed that no matter what he does he's gonna be in the background.
I donīt think so. In all other DVDs, there is plenty of footage showing him doing his cool things.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on April 05, 2010, 08:41:38 AM
So I'm watching WDADRU and noticed that anytime JM does something crazy, the camera is focused on either Petrucci or Portnoy.

Perhaps Myung just noticed that no matter what he does he's gonna be in the background.
I donīt think so. In all other DVDs, there is plenty of footage showing him doing his cool things.

Well the DVD thing was just lead in to the other point. That even if Myung did cool things, they will be largely placed in the background with no real attention given to them at all.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: tri.ad on April 05, 2010, 11:03:57 AM
I think that the WDADRU footage is the only DT concert video I have seen where the camera editing is totally messed up. I mean, on L@B, LSFNY and Score JM was given decent camera time (though still less than any of the other guys, so it kinda nullifies my point a bit...); one thing to criticise is that the volume of his bass kinda decreased as time went on. on LSFNY, he was present throughout the whole DVD footage, he was well audible on Budokan, but not so much on Score. The low point was his bass solo during Metropolis Pt. 1, you could barely hear it. Kind of a shame, imo.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: LCArenas on April 05, 2010, 11:21:23 AM
I can't see much of Myung in the Live Tourbulence Bootleg in Bucharest as well...
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Perpetual Change on April 05, 2010, 12:04:56 PM
As far as doubling baselines and tightness goes...

TRUE that some bands sound extremely heavy without doubling the bass.

However, EVERY aspect of DT nowadays seems extremely live-oriented.

The band seem to be writing music they know they can replicate live.

Doubling bass and guitar to do this seems pretty much natural if you don't want to spend so much time in the studio doing things that won't sound as great live.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: KevShmev on April 05, 2010, 12:36:38 PM
So I'm watching WDADRU and noticed that anytime JM does something crazy, the camera is focused on either Petrucci or Portnoy.

Perhaps Myung just noticed that no matter what he does he's gonna be in the background.
I donīt think so. In all other DVDs, there is plenty of footage showing him doing his cool things.

I disagree.  I remember being so annoyed when I first got the M:2000 VHS and seeing how little they showed Myung during "Through Her Eyes."  His fretless work in that song is so badass, yet he is barely shown. :tdwn
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: rumborak on April 05, 2010, 12:42:49 PM
I agree with Kev. JM has always taken the backseat in live videos, for no apparent reason.

rumborak
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Plasmastrike on April 05, 2010, 01:10:10 PM
As far as doubling baselines and tightness goes...

TRUE that some bands sound extremely heavy without doubling the bass.

However, EVERY aspect of DT nowadays seems extremely live-oriented.

The band seem to be writing music they know they can replicate live.

Doubling bass and guitar to do this seems pretty much natural if you don't want to spend so much time in the studio doing things that won't sound as great live.

I don't see how whether or not the bass guitar playing the same notes as the electric guitar or it's own unique ones affects live performing.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Perpetual Change on April 05, 2010, 06:42:16 PM
Because then, to play heavy, they'd have to layer JP in such a way in the studio that would be very difficult to replicate getting a "heavy" sound live.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on April 05, 2010, 06:47:49 PM
Because then, to play heavy, they'd have to layer JP in such a way in the studio that would be very difficult to replicate getting a "heavy" sound live.

huh? JP is miced, panned, EQ'd and so forth way differently live anyway.

Unless JP just tracks a single track of rythm, it's off anwyay.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: faemir on April 06, 2010, 09:27:20 AM
Well, unless he's tackling LaBrie.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: FlashCE on April 08, 2010, 09:50:41 AM
Because then, to play heavy, they'd have to layer JP in such a way in the studio that would be very difficult to replicate getting a "heavy" sound live.

Uhh... JP's guitar goes stereo with different delay times in both speakers to make his sound bigger. Also I have no idea what you were trying to say in your previous post.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Martinman300 on April 11, 2010, 10:23:37 AM
All the guitars on Awake were recorded 4 times, with different amps each time, he hasn't had problems playing that live....
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: TL on April 11, 2010, 11:24:39 AM
Honestly, I'd say Myung being the silent member of DT is, to an extent, a persona.
Now, the guys in DT all come across as very genuine, and I'd say that's accurate. I don't doubt that JMX is quieter than the other members, or that he's a fairly private person; I just think that the band may play up that angle a bit for the amusement of the fans. It's like how JP plays along with the 'billion notes per second' stuff. They take genuine things about themselves, and play it up for entertainment. There's nothing wrong with it at all; I'm just speculating.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: FlashCE on April 11, 2010, 06:58:27 PM
Honestly, I'd say Myung being the silent member of DT is, to an extent, a persona.
Now, the guys in DT all come across as very genuine, and I'd say that's accurate. I don't doubt that JMX is quieter than the other members, or that he's a fairly private person; I just think that the band may play up that angle a bit for the amusement of the fans. It's like how JP plays along with the 'billion notes per second' stuff. They take genuine things about themselves, and play it up for entertainment. There's nothing wrong with it at all; I'm just speculating.

lol
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: goo-goo on April 17, 2010, 10:06:12 PM
You should listen to what JM plays in the Jelly Jam albums and Platypus. Some amazing bass lines there...

I hope JM returns to the lyric department in the next DT album. I don't see the bass as the current problem (or weakness)...I think DT's weakest link right now is the lyrics...
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: pogoowner on April 17, 2010, 10:09:34 PM
You should listen to what JM plays in the Jelly Jam albums and Platypus. Some amazing bass lines there...

I hope JM returns to the lyric department in the next DT album. I don't see the bass as the current problem (or weakness)...I think DT's weakest link right now is the lyrics...
Yeah, the lyrics have been a weak link for some time now.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on April 17, 2010, 10:11:38 PM
You should listen to what JM plays in the Jelly Jam albums and Platypus. Some amazing bass lines there...

I hope JM returns to the lyric department in the next DT album. I don't see the bass as the current problem (or weakness)...I think DT's weakest link right now is the lyrics...

He won't. It sucks.

Portnoy will continue to write his personal lyrics that are decent at times and petrucci it seems will continue making me wonder what the hell happened to the guy who wrote songs like LiTS and voices.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Plasmastrike on April 17, 2010, 10:18:48 PM
Word, Adami.










):

Always hoping to get proved wrong though.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: nikatapi on April 19, 2010, 03:28:43 AM


He won't. It sucks.

Portnoy will continue to write his personal lyrics that are decent at times and petrucci it seems will continue making me wonder what the hell happened to the guy who wrote songs like LiTS and voices.

This. I always have hope, but the lyrics in the last two albums to me are below average. I keep thinking how much better TCOT would be with decent lyrics.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Mladen on April 19, 2010, 04:01:42 AM
Honestly, I'd say Myung being the silent member of DT is, to an extent, a persona.
Now, the guys in DT all come across as very genuine, and I'd say that's accurate. I don't doubt that JMX is quieter than the other members, or that he's a fairly private person; I just think that the band may play up that angle a bit for the amusement of the fans. It's like how JP plays along with the 'billion notes per second' stuff. They take genuine things about themselves, and play it up for entertainment. There's nothing wrong with it at all; I'm just speculating.
This is exactly what I'm thinking.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: popol on April 27, 2010, 06:14:17 PM
Just to be clear, I think Jordan joining the band was the greatest thing that could happen. Kevin and Derek didn't fit in with the other guys, who were all so vastly superior technically.

Have you seen When Dream and Day Reunites? Jordan and Derek trade off solos and Derek is IMO does a much better job. Derek also does a jawdropping solo on the last Ayreon album, that IMO tops anything I've heard Jordan do.

I don't really mind if they let Jordan do his keyboard solos, but I don't understand how it makes any sense that it's not the "role" of the bass to solo, but that it can be the role of the keyboard to solo. I honestly don't see the point in the keyboard solos, Jordan can also shred on guitar if he wants to, his keybaord solos, for the most, sound like watered down guitar solos transposed to keyboard. I'd rather hear more bass solos, Myung can pull off some ridiculous stuff that would sound so much more original than the usual Jordan stuff, and that wouldn't sound like a wannabe guitar solo.


In short, I don't have any problem with Jordan, except that he's taking too much space. And I'm sure that Derek would've been more appreciated had he stayed longer with DT. I think the only reason people don't like him is because they don't like FII (witch IMO has some of their best ever material), and because they haven't been exposed to enough bootlegs to realise that he was a much better performer than Kevin.


With that said, JMX still does a very good job with the role he's been given. Whoever doesn't hear him in the mix, has an earing problem or bad speakers.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: popol on April 27, 2010, 06:18:08 PM
 :|
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 28, 2010, 05:58:43 AM
Why did you quote yourself?
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: AcidLameLTE on April 28, 2010, 06:13:57 AM
You should listen to what JM plays in the Jelly Jam albums and Platypus. Some amazing bass lines there...

I hope JM returns to the lyric department in the next DT album. I don't see the bass as the current problem (or weakness)...I think DT's weakest link right now is the lyrics...

He won't. It sucks.

Portnoy will continue to write his personal lyrics that are decent at times and petrucci it seems will continue making me wonder what the hell happened to the guy who wrote songs like LiTS and voices.
I could be wrong but I think Portnoy said he wasn't going to write any more lyrics after BC&SL.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on April 28, 2010, 06:19:05 AM
You should listen to what JM plays in the Jelly Jam albums and Platypus. Some amazing bass lines there...

I hope JM returns to the lyric department in the next DT album. I don't see the bass as the current problem (or weakness)...I think DT's weakest link right now is the lyrics...

He won't. It sucks.

Portnoy will continue to write his personal lyrics that are decent at times and petrucci it seems will continue making me wonder what the hell happened to the guy who wrote songs like LiTS and voices.
I could be wrong but I think Portnoy said he wasn't going to write any more lyrics after BC&SL.

lol
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: antigoon on April 28, 2010, 08:46:48 AM
You should listen to what JM plays in the Jelly Jam albums and Platypus. Some amazing bass lines there...

I hope JM returns to the lyric department in the next DT album. I don't see the bass as the current problem (or weakness)...I think DT's weakest link right now is the lyrics...

He won't. It sucks.

Portnoy will continue to write his personal lyrics that are decent at times and petrucci it seems will continue making me wonder what the hell happened to the guy who wrote songs like LiTS and voices.
I could be wrong but I think Portnoy said he wasn't going to write any more lyrics after BC&SL.

WHY WOULD YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: hefdaddy42 on April 28, 2010, 09:45:23 AM
You should listen to what JM plays in the Jelly Jam albums and Platypus. Some amazing bass lines there...

I hope JM returns to the lyric department in the next DT album. I don't see the bass as the current problem (or weakness)...I think DT's weakest link right now is the lyrics...

He won't. It sucks.

Portnoy will continue to write his personal lyrics that are decent at times and petrucci it seems will continue making me wonder what the hell happened to the guy who wrote songs like LiTS and voices.
I could be wrong but I think Portnoy said he wasn't going to write any more lyrics after BC&SL.
WTF
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: changing_seasons on April 28, 2010, 10:03:50 AM
Just to be clear, I think Jordan joining the band was the greatest thing that could happen. Kevin and Derek didn't fit in with the other guys, who were all so vastly superior technically.

Have you seen When Dream and Day Reunites? Jordan and Derek trade off solos and Derek is IMO does a much better job. Derek also does a jawdropping solo on the last Ayreon album, that IMO tops anything I've heard Jordan do.

Yes I have, and during the 5-7-5-7 section at the end of Metropolis you can hear the difference in playing ability between Jordan and Derek. Derek plays loads of wrong notes, while Jordan flawlessly executes the same passage - doubling with his left hand mind you.

I can agree that nowadays, Jordan's solos are not what they could be, but he is absolutely perfect on SFAM and SDOIT. Today as well, most of the stuff he plays is awesome. I haven't heard any Ayreon.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Bone_Daddy on April 29, 2010, 08:06:56 AM
Quote
I don't think the technical difference between Derek and the other members is all that vast. With Kevin, yes, but his writing more than made up for it.

+1

DT lost a bit of itself lyrically when Kevin departed. Listening to the last three albums of DT, I feel like I'm listening to MP's or JP's memoirs. Honor Thy Father, BCSL, Take Away My Pain to name a few.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Dream Team on April 30, 2010, 07:21:00 AM
Quote
I don't think the technical difference between Derek and the other members is all that vast. With Kevin, yes, but his writing more than made up for it.

+1

DT lost a bit of itself lyrically when Kevin departed. Listening to the last three albums of DT, I feel like I'm listening to MP's or JP's memoirs. Honor Thy Father, BCSL, Take Away My Pain to name a few.

Take Away My Pain is from Falling Into Infinity. Did you perhaps mean The Best of Times? And some of the greatest lyrics ever penned could be said to come from someone's "memoirs" (i.e most personal, meaningful lyrics)
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Orbert on April 30, 2010, 08:46:07 AM
True.  But after three or four of these "really personal songs" I kinda feel like that's enough, and maybe they should write about something else instead.  A particular song with deep personal meaning can be very powerful, but when there's half a dozen of them, how special can each one of them be?
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Bone_Daddy on April 30, 2010, 09:43:44 AM
True.  But after three or four of these "really personal songs" I kinda feel like that's enough, and maybe they should write about something else instead.  A particular song with deep personal meaning can be very powerful, but when there's half a dozen of them, how special can each one of them be?

Well said. I would concur with this reply.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: popol on April 30, 2010, 07:09:52 PM
Just to be clear, I think Jordan joining the band was the greatest thing that could happen. Kevin and Derek didn't fit in with the other guys, who were all so vastly superior technically.

Have you seen When Dream and Day Reunites? Jordan and Derek trade off solos and Derek is IMO does a much better job. Derek also does a jawdropping solo on the last Ayreon album, that IMO tops anything I've heard Jordan do.

Yes I have, and during the 5-7-5-7 section at the end of Metropolis you can hear the difference in playing ability between Jordan and Derek. Derek plays loads of wrong notes, while Jordan flawlessly executes the same passage - doubling with his left hand mind you.

I can agree that nowadays, Jordan's solos are not what they could be, but he is absolutely perfect on SFAM and SDOIT. Today as well, most of the stuff he plays is awesome. I haven't heard any Ayreon.

5-7-5-7 section? Sorry but I listen to music for enjoyment, I don't pay any attention to stuff like time signatures and I couldn't care less about anyone's playing ability. The only thing that matters to me is what sounds good to my ears. Derek live sounds better than Kevin to me, and Jordan sounds better than Derek except when he does annoying stuff. At least Derek didn't do any of that stuff.

I think one of the reason why Awake is a fan favourite is because the keyboard are more laid back.

I don't really have a problem with keyboard solos, but Jordan's stuff gets kinda old. What I really can't stand is when he sounds like he's trying to play rythmn guitar. There is a time and place for keyboards and Jordan needs to learn when to just stop playing.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: changing_seasons on May 01, 2010, 10:28:33 AM
5-7-5-7 section? Sorry but I listen to music for enjoyment, I don't pay any attention to stuff like time signatures and I couldn't care less about anyone's playing ability. The only thing that matters to me is what sounds good to my ears.

I just needed something to call the final part of the instrumental section in the middle of the song, and there are 5s and 7s flying all over the place at that point. I too listen to music for enjoyment, but I enjoy the extraordinary talent of Jordan Rudess, and how he flawlessly executes just about anything he tries to. I can spot wrong notes in any music, and, after playing that section myself about 1000 times, I know the notes very well. Derek had quite a few problems there, and wrong notes definitely do not sound good to my ears.

Quote
I think one of the reason why Awake is a fan favourite is because the keyboard are more laid back.

This is probably true, and it is the reason Awake is my least favorite album. I hate the keyboards on it.
Quote
What I really can't stand is when he sounds like he's trying to play rythmn guitar. There is a time and place for keyboards and Jordan needs to learn when to just stop playing.

He only plays 'rhythm guitar' to cover for JP. Not even John can duplicate live the stuff he plays in the studio.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: perfey on May 01, 2010, 01:47:02 PM
JM didnt go silent after JR's arrival, he just sat down and played on his bass  :metal

No seriously, I think they have gone along well since they first met, that's at least the impression I have.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: toro on May 01, 2010, 01:55:20 PM


He only plays 'rhythm guitar' to cover for JP. Not even John can duplicate live the stuff he plays in the studio.

WAT
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: SinisterMinisterX on May 01, 2010, 04:00:14 PM
I can't see much of Myung in the Live Tourbulence Bootleg in Bucharest as well...

Almost zero JM there after the first two songs. But they have a camera all over him on Glass Prison. I always wondered, did that camera break?

Also, almost zero JM on Santiago. I was really disappointed with that edit in general. We all love MP, but way too much of him in that one.
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 06, 2010, 12:39:02 PM


He only plays 'rhythm guitar' to cover for JP. Not even John can duplicate live the stuff he plays in the studio.

WAT
He means he can't solo and do rhythm guitars at the same time lol
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: toro on May 06, 2010, 12:47:23 PM


He only plays 'rhythm guitar' to cover for JP. Not even John can duplicate live the stuff he plays in the studio.

WAT
He means he can't solo and do rhythm guitars at the same time lol

ohhhhh  :blush
Title: Re: JM going silent after JR's arrival?
Post by: Adami on May 06, 2010, 12:57:55 PM


He only plays 'rhythm guitar' to cover for JP. Not even John can duplicate live the stuff he plays in the studio.

WAT
He means he can't solo and do rhythm guitars at the same time lol

Sucks they don't have a bassist.